Edited to replace original incorrect Herzog attribution with my own version that correctly attributes the quote
This has been reported for violating rule 2: “No misinformation”, as the quote was misattributed.
The full rule:
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
OP admitted they didn’t double check the author of the quote. This means it was not intentional.
Leaving it up.
I’ll just make a new one (this isn’t oc) when I get home but that’ll be 10h at least. It’s OK to nuke this since it is sorta misinfo, although I didn’t know it when I posted it
Nah. That would nuke all the back-and-forth found here. I’d rather keep the discussion up.
I have a deep appreciate for this level of discernment. Moderating posts and their discussions in good-faith and abiding by the spirit/intention of the rules instead of strict enforcement by letter fosters community trust and makes it more difficult to argue against removals/bans when they do happen.
Thanks for volunteering and keeping the lights on.
This sounds like if someone just said they didn’t know it was bs, it’s a get out of jail free card.
See he should have attributed that quote to Julius Caesar, then it would be considered humor and not misinformation.
JFC just enjoy the meme.
Should I make a new rule that all quotes must be attributed to Oscar the Grouch? I will, either way.
“All quotes must be attributed to Oscar the Grouch.”
- Oscar the Grouch
not a good reason to leave it up. Think about the precedent that sets.
Think about the precedent that pulling down discussions wholesale because some inconsequential detail about them is wrong sets.
wait. You saw this comment, and reported it anyways?
It wasn’t intentional, FFS. I hate this place so much.
…the precedent that people are allowed to make minor mistakes? Gasp THE HORROR
Seriously, this mistake isn’t a big deal, no intentional misdirection and in any case, the quote is more important for conversation than the actual author.
I think the objection here is that it creates a massive loophole: Intentionally post misinformation, claim you thought it was legitimate. Repeat until you stop getting the benefit of the doubt, start over with a new account, repeat ad infinitum.
I’m not sure what the best solution is, but I think we at least need some kind of very clear notice, on the feed page and not just in the comments, that the content is proven to be factually incorrect.
I think the point is it’s factually incorrect about the least significant fact.
If it’s more serious misinformation, it probably warrants taking down the post, even if unintentional. The nuance would then be that genuine error doesn’t immediatly warrant banning, even if the post is taken down.
This one is a mild and unintentional case with little implications either way. If someone were to cite this as “But this one you left up!” as excuse for a different, more severe case, the mods would justifiably say that it doesn’t apply.
Besides, it’s not like setting a precedent is as serious for community mods as it is for courts of law - mods can change the rules when a situation arises that warrants it and enforce them accordingly, make one-off decisions for special cases or admit a previous decision was a mistake and generally have more leeway.
I would watch ahah. Get a taste of your medecine, bitches
It’s gruesome, isn’t it? When I was young, I used to believe that people were, for the most part, decent. Misled, often, stupid, very often; but good at heart. Now, I’m convinced that a good third of our society is broken and a third of our society is blind to anything that doesn’t affect them.
I actually originally dug this picture up for a post of this RawStory article titled ‘Their ignorance is willful’: WaPo analyst says enough with the MAGA voter pity, which is highly relevant.
The problem with the majority of right wing extremists isn’t that they’re just stupid misled bumpkins, but that they’re actual psychopaths who vote for people like Trump because he’s promising to hurt everybody they hate
I’m convinced that we’ve lost, at minimum, 20% of our nation to some kind of mass-hysteria style sociopathy. I mean, maybe they’ve always been lost and we just didn’t realize it, but going forward, I don’t think anything can be done to ‘fix’ them. Most people, I think, are responsive to their environments and social standards, but after a point, you get so dug in that peer pressure doesn’t work, even on social animals like us. All we can do is save the children of that 20%.
We could start by addressing the actual causes of conditions of despair.
I think what happened is that it became more acceptable to show their nastiness; that they used to have to hide it because our society wouldn’t accept it. Then Trump being elevated to president normalized the violence and hatred being out in the open and those people felt safe to come out of the woodwork.
I feel like it was always there, simmering beneath the surface, but I’m a self-admitted (overall) misanthrope who thinks most people are, on average, pretty shitty.
It’s the same with conservatives pretty much around the world right now.
I really don’t know how we’re going to unfuck the situation without a lot of bloodshed – and make no mistake, it would be them who spill that blood like they’re already doing, just at a much larger scale. As it is, conservatives are a threat to stable and peaceful societies, and due to their resistance to meaningful climate action they’re an existential threat to humanity in general.
I have some hope, at least. People in general are passive, even when they hate the status quo, they often cede to a fait accompli. The trick is getting each bit a done deal before conservative talking heads have time to formulate the best Pavlovian Ten Minutes’ Hate for their audience.
And making sure the kids continue to be alright.
It starts with us not engaging in the same thing.
It was a strange feeling when I reached an age and realized that most people I know didn’t meet the standards of what I thought should be a good person.
Good people make mistakes, often repeatedly. Great people eventually learn something.
None of what you describe is necessarily mutually exclusive. You can be broken, misled, misinformed, and stupid, while still being good at heart.
I think that everyone is blind to something. Some of us are less so than others. Growing up in this world will do that to a person. Shit happens to everybody. Some of us are better equipped than others to handle it, while others are not.
None of what you describe is necessarily mutually exclusive. You can be broken, misled, misinformed, and stupid, while still being good at heart.
Yes, but the issue is that they’re broken, misled, misinformed, stupid, AND malicious.
I think that everyone is blind to something. Some of us are less so than others. Growing up in this world will do that to a person. Shit happens to everybody. Some of us are better equipped than others to handle it, while others are not.
I would ascribe that intermittent blindness more to the other ~80% of the population.
We are blind too. It’s just that the things we were raised to believe but don’t realize aren’t petty and mean.
How your raise kids matters.
For instance, most of the people who are atheists in the west argue for a set of beliefs that perfectly aligns with protestism without God. It is baked into every lesson they were taught as a kid.
It takes a lot of work to keep your heart from hardening in this world but it is work worth doing.
For me the jury is still out.
Many of them are misled. You can be born into a completely alternate reality with the way conservative culture has been cutting itself off from news and media.
We’re all just reeling from traumatic experience to traumatic experience. We don’t get any real time to slow down and heal, so emotions from one trauma show up in other unrelated problems. People become a bull in a china shop, hit someone else, who then becomes another bull in said china shop, they hit a few more, who then in turn become more bulls, so to anyone in the china shop that hasn’t been hit yet, it all seems chaotic and evil. We’re all just deeply traumatized with no avenue for healing.
“10 percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and the remaining 80 percent can be moved in either direction.” -Susan Sontag
Anyway, vote for Hindenburg.
Our politics as of late indicate to me that people of good heart will now kill you for their dear leader.
if it makes you feel any better you were wrong and it was always fucked up. the difference between now and when you were wrong is that you’re more aware now.
i dont think it was always fucked up, there was always some amount of fucked up, but there’s vastly more amounts of fucked up now.
compared to what time? Tulsa massacre? jim crow? pre suffrage? slavery?
those are specific selections of fucked up ness in society. At some point that was considered to societal norm, people pushed outside of it, as the government and society intends to happen, shit gets goofy, eat sleep repeat and gay people are normal now.
we’re also talking about a specific problem in politics, manifested in a very specific way today, that wouldn’t have been possible merely 20 years ago, so i think it’s fair to treat this like a sort of historically true fact.
unless you’re trying to argue that humanity has been a constant state of bad throughout it’s entire history, which i doubt, and also changes from person to person. It’s not really relevant to go that far back i think.
they’re not selections in the cherry picking sense; the country’s history is a constant stream of oppression and political violence.
only one of them is a specific event, but i pointed it out it was particularly fucked up. but the rest aren’t specific at all; they’re entire periods of time where the “fucked up” was the norm, and the law.
i don’t exactly understand what you think we’re talking about. you say it’s a “specific problem” but didn’t specify it really. so i don’t know what’s supposedly impossible merely 20 years ago.
but merely 20 years ago gays couldn’t marry. 20 some years before that the AIDS epidemic was ignored because the government thought it was a gay problem and didn’t care.
there was always oppression and there still is. the orange cunt didn’t invent anything. he just started saying the quiet part out loud.
the country’s history is a constant stream of oppression and political violence.
this would be applicable to the entire history of the human race as well.
i don’t exactly understand what you think we’re talking about. you say it’s a “specific problem” but didn’t specify it really. so i don’t know what’s supposedly impossible merely 20 years ago.
i’m talking about the fascist conservatism problem, and the specific ways in which it’s being empowered. Something like this has literally never happened before, hitler being the closest thing, arguably. But that was before the modern era and now we have so many more avenues for social control and influence than with hitler.
there was always oppression and there still is.
i don’t disagree, i just think in this specific aspect (politics) it’s gotten substantially worse since the early oughts.
The specific mechanism of the problem is brand new and very hard to deal with, which compounds with the problem.
this would be applicable to the entire history of the human race as well.
irrelevant, as we’re talking about US history, not world history. you’re the one saying we’re in worse times than before and I’m asking when that was.
i disagree that fascism wasn’t a serious problem before, i just think they’re more comfortable with visibility today thanks to the orangutan leatherface. if you mean this to be the specific mechanism, okay, but i don’t know if it’s really worse than the insidious cryptofascism doing the same shit but with masks and dog whistles instead.
As far as stability, and the shaking of this country from a NATO sided democracy to a BRICS sided dictatorship? Yeah, I’d say it’s right up there if it does happen.
Oh yeah, I’m not saying I think society has changed for the worse. It’s definitely just that my eyes are open now.
The problem mostly aren’t the individuals. Human normally are nice.
These are processes started by psychopaths using the heard instinct for their plans.
Most individuals are nice, groups of people on the other hand can never be trusted.
Gonna have to disagree with you there. Individuals are good are pretending they’re nice. The number of people who are horrifying when they think it’s safe to let their mask down around you is… concerning.
Not even kidding, about a year and a half ago, I took a job in a different department at work, and within 10 minutes, the guy that I was training with, had said 3 offensive slurs within the first 10 minutes of meeting the guy. Like dude, I could go to HR right now and you’d be gone in another 10 minutes. Wtf? In 2023? I mean, the guy was 71 years old, so I kinda gave him a pass on doing that, which kinda gives me the ick, but still. I didn’t turn him in because they basically built the building around where this guy happened to be standing and got offered the job the day it opened up. Another guy, whose only 38 and should know better though actually did get a 30 day suspension for repeated racist remarks. He’s actually a smart guy but he’s been mislead. Not a very nice guy, but smart.
Is anyone new waking up?!
I’m waking up with sam harris. does that count?
Ive beenvaccused of being woke, does that count?
I’ve been accused of being everything; from an autocrat to a commie, left wing to right wing, liberal to conservative, bigot to bleeding heart, I’ve been called snowflake by both sides. People are fucking crazy and have even crazier ideas. It all just depends on the specific crazy that belongs to the person you’re talking to atm. I’m pretty far left, but there’s people left of me that think I’m basically Nicki Haley.
I think you are an amazing person, P00ptart 💝
Not yet, waiting for September to end.
Note:
He never said that. This quote is from William Pannapacker, a professor of American literature at Hope College in Holland, Michigan.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/werner-herzog-germany-quote/
So like contextually it’s a provocative statement. But it feels really weird and downright dishonest to use the cloak of ‘parody’ in this case.
Maybe just a third of him said that…?
Huge fan of your style. This cements that even further.
This is how you remind me?
Look at this photograph.
Every time I do it; makes me laugh!
Oh, by the way thanks for that comment the other day!
Anytime 🫶🏻
It’s like a free ride when you’ve already paid AM I DOING THIS RIGHT
It’s like rain, on your karma train.
All of the boys and all of the girls are begging to if you seek Amy.
This is wow you remind me
Audibly laughed!
wow
That’s my favourite Dr. Who quote
I need this as a t-shirt for the next concert I go to.
It’s nice to imagine Werner’s voice saying it though
It’s nice to imagine him saying anything at all…dude could brutally roast me and I’d be like that was beautiful sir.
Ah, figures. I should know better than to post quotes without checking if they’re attributed correctly
I immediately thought that doesn’t sound like something Herzog would say.
Ah, figures. I should know better than to post quotes without checking if they’re attributed correctly
Why don’t you correct it then? (Eg, either delete your post, or replace the linked image with an updated one that attributes the quote correctly.)
This isn’t facebook; please don’t post years-old misattributed quote memes.
Would have cost you exactly 0 € to not be a cunt, but here you are.
I didn’t correct it because I was away from my computer for an extended period – the current version has a different image and is correctly attributed. I didn’t delete it because then the existing conversation in the comments would have also gotten nuked, exactly the same reason the mod didn’t delete it either.
You should probably correct it right? Like swap the image for a different Herzog quote, or change it so the image is William
keep all text, including the misattribution to william herzog and substitute a portrait of william shatner.
That is very doable
“Ah, figures. I should know better than to post quotes without checking if they’re attributed correctly”
-
Wayne Gretzky- Michael Scott
When Michael Moore fans gain one (1) IQ point, they move on to Herzog.
🤢
A solid counterpoint. I hadn’t considered that aspect
Yeah, you saw a quote not even correctly attributed to him but your only comment is how any fans of his work are idiots.
Do you have an actual point, or… you know what? Nevermind.
I’m pretty sure the intended point was, “Werner Herzog is somewhat overrated as a documentarian, yet still slightly more sophisticated than Michael Moore.”
Frederick Wiseman is the only documentarian worth watching
Werner Herzog’s “Aguirre: the Wrath of God” is on [email protected] here: https://lemmy.world/post/17030774
The .00001 left over is who is running the show
So do the other 2/3 come together to do the killing? What’s the answer Werner?!
Education
You throw the crib door wide, and let the people come inside. Then you give them a rock to wind a piece of string around. Because everybody wants a rock to wind a piece of string around.
This sounds like a brand new record! For 1990!
I guess I am in the murderous third. If I could Thanos snap the MAGA out of existence, I would not hesitate.
People of Earth, you are waking up, as our advanced space-faring race once did…
– Gul Dukat
Dukat 2024 – Make Cardassia Great Again
I kinda hate this framing because it makes it seem inevitable and ever-present. Even on the right it’s more like 5% true hate, 28% normal Republican who does not find true hate disqualifying. There’s plenty of reason to discredit that or disagree with it etc but it’s not the same as being in the 5%.
I was just listening to an interview with an evangelical who was lesser-of-two-evils on Trump, he’ll vote for Trump but he’s not a True Believer.
he’ll vote for Trump but he’s not a True Believer.
If you support fascists, you are a fascist. Period.
lol this doesn’t make yall seem any better
I think they’re saying that it’s something we can solve, not that we’re good.
I’m pretty sure the only thing that would solve this is re-education camps for all registered Republicans lol. Those people are divorced from reality. Even the never trumpers don’t believe in climate change.
But if the 28% are still voting for the true hate, how does that not make them complicit in what the hateful government is doing? Knowingly voting for the hateful option puts the 28% in the same pen as the 5%.
If it’s magas vs Clinton libs I’ll probably just watch happily
Until the magas are done with the libs
Yeah, but hopefully they’ll be softened up a bit
First they came for the Clinton libs and I said nothing for I was not a Clinton lib lol
JK they always come for the socialists first.
The Clinton libs would help them come for the socialists… If the magas could tell the difference between a lib and a progressive that is
Truth
While it’s no doubt a cool quote, it’s also kind of condescending. Somehow, a horrific moment in history has turned into an arrogant warning. And even at that, it’s a warning to a country that Germany modeled upon for its concentration camps. It reads like, “Don’t do what you’ve already done (that we copied), you dumbasses.” I don’t disagree with the implied dumbasses vibe, but the naive arrogance takes away a lot of momentum of this quote for me. That is to say, the U. S. has already messed up on a massive level before, to the point that Germany borrowed from them to do the terrible things that Germany did, yet this reality has seemingly been forgotten. Why did he forget this? Were those exterminated in the U.S. not important enough to be remembered in his view of history? In other words, the plight of millions of indigenous, enslaved people of color, and many others aren’t even accounted for here. The warning has eliminated them from history.
It’s a sideways glance at the quote, but now I can’t stop reading it from that angle.
I think all the arrogance and condescension are in your head.
I’ve re read the quote multiple times after your comment and can’t find any base for it
It’s perfectly fine if you and I read it from different angles. My points are still valid, even if you read it differently. But they’re definitely not “in my head”, due to the fact that I’m reading the quote from the colinailty of power as a framework (read Aníbal Quijano’a theory in this for more).
My points are still valid
There is nothing in the quote to justify your “angle”. If you are taking those cues from someplace else, well, that’s on you
Fair enough. Within the greater reader-response criticsm umbrella, I’m using Quijano’s colonialidad del poder to problematize the quote as a form of whitewashing of history even though the quote is well-intended. From there, it reads a bit arrrogant from that stance. But, it looks like it was a misquote anyway. Hopefully, you understand that I’m not reading the quote the way most people are. Instead, I looked at it from a unique perspective. Best wishes to you.
“I did my best to justify my reason for finding this arrogant, it required using 20 year old, Spanish-language reference material and is so esoteric I’m forced to call it unique”
You are my kind of pedant, brother!
That’s presumptuous to think that “I did my best…” simply because I like thinking about things diffeny than most. I didn’t explain it well enough, but later clarified my point for you. I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings about a misquoted text. Take care.
“I did my most mediocre interpretation” isn’t as funny.
