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I guess in this analogy I’d be a conscientious objector
What does this mean? How is Gen Z dating?
The data says mostly through dating apps, for one, which seems so impersonal and frustrating from the outside.
I don’t get all the hate dating apps get. I met my wife on bumble, so maybe I’m biased. But still, it seems significantly better than the methods previous generations had (blind dating, speed dating, getting introduced to random friends that might happen to have something in common).
What’s the alternative? You just happen to get lucky enough to meet someone in your daily life that’s a good fit? One of the advantages of dating apps is that you get introduced to a much larger pool of potential partners than you otherwise would, which makes it significantly easier to filter out the wheat from the chaff and find a good fit.
I think part of the problem is dating apps keep getting worse and worse as they try to squeeze as much profit out of their users as possible. Tinder just came out with a $500/month tier
May as well pay for a legitimate match making service at that point
Pretty much this. I remember OG OkCupid and it was rad. It was a site ran by data nerds who wanted to help nerds find each other, and they wrote pretty frequent blog posts about their findings and how they were changing things up all for like ~$15 a month. All that started eroding until they got bought out by Match and its a cesspool of microtransactions now.
I mean, that’s what every single one of your ancestors did since the beginning of mankind
Not really. Humans live very differently today than they did throughout the past several millions of years. Cities and 9-5’s were not the norm until relatively recently. Unless you have a group you hang out with where you constantly meet new people it can be very different to find a partner in modern society without some form of dating.
Sometimes I forget cities were just recently invented in the 2010s
That’s funny. Obviously cities go back thousands of years, but I don’t think it was the norm for the majority of humans to live in them until the last several hundred years or less. But in general, I do believe humans have fewer group social activities than we used to, and therefore fewer opportunities to meet new people.
There’s a cultural aspect to this too. I know in China it’s common for parents to be matchmakers and find other parents that have single kids for them to go on dates with. And historically in India arranged marriage has been common. So I’m probably looking at this from a western lens. But still, as far as dating goes online dating seems to be the modern evolution of it. And in my opinion an improvement.
Well if you were in a rural area you would just trade like 2 goats for a dowry. Times were much more simple back then.
Dating apps are designed to keep you on them. They cant make money of you use them for a few months and then delete it.
Young people are actually using social media platforms like Instagram and Snapchat to date. People you sorta knew in high school or college, share some mutual interests, and then hang out from there and see what happens.
I’m old enough to be in this relationship for nearly 20 years. It started on a dating site, in the early 2000’s Internet and that site managed to get two introverts into happy union. I think that would look rather different for more social butterflies.
Did Millennials not use dating apps?
They did and still do. Anybody dating today regardless of their age is likely to try a dating app at least for a bit. Don’t buy into this generational division.
I’m sure those who are still dating do now, but dating apps didn’t really start becoming popular until the mid 2010s, and millennials were well into their 20s already. Lots were able to take that last chopper out.
Man, I wasn’t even trying to settle down in my 20’s a little. It wasn’t until my 30’s that I thought about slowing down with the casual hook ups and happened to reconnect with a nice man from high school.
Do meet up groups not exist anymore? Does Gen Z lack any space to explore mutual hobbies and meet new people?
Does Gen Z lack any space to explore mutual hobbies and meet new people?
Shared interests have pretty much moved online, free/cheap places for physical meetups are disappearing, and in a car-dependent world you’re not gonna meet someone randomly in-between your planned out destinations.
I mean it seems the same as it ever was to me, newly single younger Millennial here and I’m seeing a Gen Z woman.
Seems the biggest change in the last 4ish years is there are a lot more ethical Non-monogamy people, but I’m wondering if that’s just a youth culture thing.
The woman I’ve been seeing says that she is ENM, but all her actions indicate otherwise to me. Which I don’t mind, Im not really non-monogamous, just pretty open and flexible with things. Also below age 25-30 have a lot more “doesn’t want kids” vibes going on
FWIW I know plenty of Millenials who practice ENM or polyamory in some fashion, but I think that may just be more common in the queer community and I don’t see as many straight people doing it, or at least doing it well.
It was more late 00s. I met my wife on OkC in 2008, and Match and it had been around for awhile at that point. It was still something vaguely embarrassing, and people didn’t usually talk about using those.
No, we just kinda stumbled into each other in social situations and went from there.
Those of us who are right on the cusp (let’s say 95-99) all use the apps but end up finding partners irl instead anyway. Either that or not at all. Just not on the apps.
That’s how I ended up finding any decent relationship. Tried the app thing for a bit, which was mostly fun for hook ups, but awful for finding any kind of actual connection.
Gen z and millennials are the only cohorts now? Get off my lawn.
Gen x is not considered, as they are the middle child of generations.
As a generation x middle child, there’s no point me even replying.
Shh
You’re like the butt of UDP joke.
Oh you. Packet in.
No no of course not, I simply forgot Gen X existed and I don’t care how earlier generations did it, they seem miserable and bitter.
I simply forgot Gen X existed
This has been our plan all along.
I simply forgot Gen X existed
We’re used to it.
That made me laugh!
I mean you’re not entirely wrong, but have you considered that might just be a side effect of getting on in years rather than not having dating apps 30+ years ago?
I’m glad the joke was well received, sometimes flippant sarcasm lands flat online!
I think there’s a lot of factors that could play into my parent’s (I’m in my mid 30’s, fwiw) generation seeming to suffer such marital woes. I think there was a lot of social pressure to marry and have children quickly that put them in relationships they may not have ideally chosen and at younger ages. People seem to change a lot during their 20’s. I absolutely found myself connecting well with some people at age 21 who I couldn’t stand by age 24. I think there was a lot of sexual repression as well. I wonder if my parents generation had had more freedom to explore LGBTQ and polyamorous relationships without fear of ostracization or worse consequences if they’d be overall happier in their marriages, even if they ended up in a heterosexual relationship. I dunno what it is, but the gays of every generation just seem happier on the whole.
I think the contemporary ideas on divorce also influenced people to stay in relationships they did not want to be in, and, frankly, the lack of social mobility for women seriously negatively impacted women’s abilities to leave toxic relationships. That was lessened in my parent’s generation from their parent’s, but it still existed and it still exists to some extent today.
Maybe it’s simply getting older? But I think it’s partially that older generations happen to stay in relationships longer, they’re less likely to split when things turn sour. Or even sour-ish.
I’m not sure if dating is truly easier or harder today than it was ten years ago, twenty years ago, thirty, etc, but it sure is different and, yeah, the apps are pretty much just a data collection program that covers itself with the thin veil of a yenta
The apps hadn’t been so thoroughly ruined by Match Group yet. OKCupid used to publish interesting detailed reports about dating habits. Plenty of Fish wasn’t full of bots and scammers. The apps that charged you for basic features were largely avoided. The experience was weird and new.
The dating app landscape as it is now is basically just whichever is the latest one until Match acquires it.
Many millennials developed relationships / got married before dating apps really blew up. Plus, the cultural pressures of today make being single look very different from when I was.
I started dating my partner before Tinder existed and when I watch my friends play Tinder it looks like such a depressing nightmare. It’s like… got microtransactions and shit. Wondering when they’re adding a battlepass.
Makes for a good dick menu, but for actual relationships it makes me sooooo happy I’ve found my eternal person before all of this shit existed.
I met a couple girls on IRC lol
I met my (now) wife in college in 2002. Never touched a dating app
Same, but 2012
I got 2 bots that wanted me to pay a Instahoe. No humans around.
The idea of meeting people online seemed so exciting back in the 90’s and 00’s. How ever did it go so wrong?
i don’t know about the exact point/year, but probably when it went from meeting someone online to the only thing that matters being exterior looks
There have always been people who only care about looks. That’s never changed.
Paid apps is where it went wrong. It stopped being something that happened organically and became a gamified P2W experience that catered to narcissists.
And the narcissistic aggressive assholes made it 1000x worse for everyone else…
So many “upgrades” were made to “protect” people but all that really amounted to was: people won’t see your messages unless they already like you (so no introducing yourself). Message limits so you can only send one new message a day, so for us guys who get ignored 99.9999999999% of the time we’re now stuck on the site 10000x longer. No browsing method, only swiping so people “disappear” once you’ve made a decision in that moment. Etc etc…
Now sites like plenty of fish have fucking live steaming … Talk about narcissists… They even have messages like “not looking, only here to stream.” They’re just milking the desperate guys who throw money at them for validation or whatever…
Dating, especially as a 30+ in 2024 is disgustingly depressing…
Turns out everyone else online in the 90s and 00s got to meet Chris Hansen.
Fuckin a man. Sometimes I’m envious of people still on the dating adventure, but I feel really sorry for my friends that are dating and dating and can’t find mutual love. I’ve been married for over 20 years and I feel so fucking lucky.
Love that you did not capitalize the A in the first phrase. Leaves room for interpretation.
Everybody says this. I heard this from older people about dating 10 years ago, and 20 years ago. This is just what people say as they get older regardless of how dating changes.
Gotta say I’m glad we can be and date any genders we like these days with much milder pushback (on average) than used to be the case. Really does help zoomers be a lot healthier imo, even if we’ve got other issues in the internet age.
But… pushback is the whole reason you go on a date…
Sounds like somebody’s jelly when they should be more like jello
Hmm… usually I prefer push-in 😇
Yep, dating sucks no matter what era you’re in.
*slowly puts away his picnic basket and bicycle made for two
daisy… daisy…
Yeah, see if I had to start dating again, I wouldn’t date Gen Z. Problem solved.
I dunno. There is statistics that show younger people to have less and less sex. And it certainly is not because of more prudeness nowadays. While not the final indicator i do think it to be representative of the general lack of stable relationships.
Younger people not having homes to rent might be a large contributor.
Taking someone home to your room in your parents house has never been a “player move”.
You make a great point. Also dating typically involves going out and that is expensive. I also think people are more honest today. They feel more comfortable not having to lie about it to seem cool. I think past data are skeptically full of some lies padding the data given the peer pressures of older generations behaviors.
I’m divorced and bottom part of GenX, but I’ve just been so busy building stuff I never went seriously looking for a partner afterwards. How bad is it out there… after I get management lined out on my current pet project I might want to start dating again.
How bad is it out there?
Hmm well on the bright side if you are a Buddhist or a Catholic you might consider a life of voluntary celebacy. Just throwing out options
Unless you were planning on trying to date 20 year olds, you’ll probably be just fine.
…go on, you mentioned 20 year olds?
If you are wealthy enough a lot of young people are in their “Daddy” phase of looking for older men they think have life figured out and are financially stable enough to fund their over expectant idea of what their lives should be like?
So you know… Got that going for you.
Which is nice.
You’re cooked lol
I don’t know if I could date a 20-year-old, she’s half my age. She’d have to be allowed to bring a friend to keep it fair.
But humor aside, I’m curious how people are actually meeting people. Everyone is so busy, and apps are motivated to keep you there and swiping. It looks like a bad deal.
Tinder and the other apps are pretty bad. Partly because they want to make money, not matches.
But also partly because the users suck at using them. People are like “I want interesting conversation” but reply with nothing but “lol”. Come in my dude put some work in.
yup if any dating service needs you to pay a subscription instead of a one time payment and it helps you until you succeed, they have an active incentive to keep you as a customer as long as possible and guess what makes you stop being a customer.
Weirdly, none of them really focus on the non-monogamous market. There’s a section of likely long term users.
I’m not someone remotely into that market, but my understanding is there isn’t a huge demand for this outside the Ashley Madison type who are cheating. The various cliques have their own methods of finding each other and generally aren’t interested in broadcasting that to a wider market.
At older age ranges the ENM users are definitely more noticeable on the dating apps.
A lot of the polyamorous people I know are on the apps or have tried them, but aren’t happy with them. Partly because the apps generally aren’t good, and partly because you end up with a lot of wasted “your desired relationship structure isn’t what I want” matches.
OkCupid has some support for it, but that app hasn’t been good or interesting in years. Tinder lets you pick your relationship type, but you can’t like filter by it. Soneone threatened to “report me” on Hinge (I think?) for wanting a non monogamous relationship. Maybe they thought relationship anarchy was something dangerous.
This might be different outside of NYC, where I am.
This might be different outside of NYC, where I am.
Dating outside of a major city is incredibly hard, and being non-mono makes it even harder.
But also partly because the users suck at using them. People are like “I want interesting conversation” but reply with nothing but “lol”.
A lot of profiles on these sites are entirely fake or bot-operated, to boost the impression that you’re getting matches. Some profiles are run by data miners who swipe match on everyone just to get the additional data that comes with a match. Others are run by businesses that are using the profiles for promotion.
Slapping “I want interesting conversation” in the profile is a great way to bait engagement, but more often than not there’s no dating prospect on the other side of the profile. This isn’t a string of incredibly vapid women you’re running into, its dummy accounts and scams.
Somehow I hadn’t even considered fake profiles. I don’t know if that makes me feel better or worse about the situation.
My coworker told me that even restaurants will post “profiles”, get matches and set up first dates at their establishments. The person will obviously get stood up, but they are more likely to spend money in the establishment since they’re already there. Like maybe a drink or 2.
Now that’s evil.
Better about your future potential dating pool but worse about the tech industry is where I went with it.
There’s a cute little audiobook I listened to recently, called “The Verifiers” which was written by a person who worked professionally in the dating app industry and turned her experience into a thriller novel. Definitely made me feel better about getting the run around, since this is apparently the professional standard and not just me being uniquely stupid.
I miss the hunt of the “old days” but i’m glad i’m not mixed in with little miss “can’t put her phone down to have a decent conversation”.
The shit i pulled in my teens to land some girls would get me in trouble with security nowadays, the girls i met would come back for more.
I definitely won when it came to finding a significant other compared to the younger folk. But they mess it up themselves and blame the other for being just as incapable, one of you need to open their eyes and make a change or else you’re all doomed.
My wife and I have been together for a decade. Before she and I met, I dated pretty heavily on the online options at the time. All of my worst dates ever were found online. I decided online dating was depressing and stupid, just stopped trying to date anyone, and started just meeting people in person. It was wildly more successful. I had fewer dates but they were way higher quality. No one showing up on shrooms, ghosting me, or acting scandalized because I’m a little guy despite it being outlined multiple times in my online profile.
Aside: The latter is my personal favorite. I’m a hair over 5’6 and proportionally built. I’m not just short, I’m small. One woman I met immediately accused me of being deceptive about my height, even though I was actually taller than claimed at around 5’7 with dress shoes on. She was also 5’6 but was standing a bit taller than me. She had forgotten she was wearing heels. That date ended quickly. Bullet dodged.
My sister is 5’3" and she had a thing for tall guys. After a string of bad dates, she decided to give someone a shot who was 5’2". Six years later they got married.
Nothing but respect for the short king with mad moves. My brother-in-law is cool as hell and I’m glad he’s the guy my sister landed on.
My husband and I are the same height. Never understood the whole tall dude preference/requirement but people are into different things I guess. A nice side perk is I can borrow his shirts and not be swimming in them. They’re still baggy and comfortable from the different cut, but not so big the sleeves cover my hands.
Height is such a bad thing to filter based on.
My wife’s best friend was complaining about how she goes on lots of dates but there’s never a real connection. She is a little taller than average but insisted she needed a guy at least 6’2" (so he would be at least X" taller than her when she was wearing X" heels).
That’s just a terrible priority if you want a real connection.
Because you want to have to tilt your head up at least 20° (?) to kiss while wearing high heels, you’re willing to eliminate 95% of bachelors? Have you considered the logistics of kissing while you’re not wearing high heels?
But the criterion was like a point of pride for her, like her ego wouldn’t allow her to look for someone less than 6’2". Super weird. Just not a good way to find a partner.
I just asked this to my wife and she said “I mean yes, the answer is yes”
Oh God yes.
Look me and my wife met on a dating site. No shame in this. We both had pretty detailed profiles with lots of photos and luckily for us we were living fairly close by in the same stages in life. Our first date we both kinda knew what we were about. At the same time neither of us had real social media accounts so yeah no weird stalking games.
Now, me and her dated for three years until we moved in together. That was enough time. Time to see each other as people, warts and all. We have our share of embarrassing memories. I remember the time she got wasted and threw up BBQ squid and wine on me on the train. She remembers the time my card got declined at dinner. We had seen each other frustrated, failing at something, ill, broke, in the morning, drunk, out of work, and all the other downs real humans have. Both of us decided we were okay with that and well we are still together today.
Now I see the black mirror like horrorshow that is tinder from my younger friends and hear them say things how they consider it sus if you aren’t on Instagram. I see them acting like a date is a job interview. Gameification and weird cryptic terms like “high value”. Long lists of must haves and must nots.
Mother of fuck how and why would anyone want this? I felt like we had it pretty well figured out when in my early 20s. You could meet someone the traditional way or you could use a dating site and find someone who has the same fun hobbies as you. Oh they aren’t exactly who you normally date? Ok. See what happens.
We both had pretty detailed profiles with lots of photos
Same with my wife and I who met online a couple of years back. Even back then, lots of other men would complain about having a hard time getting matches, being poorly treated on dates, etc. which did happen to me, but just as often I’d make a promising connection.
I think part of the reason I was relatively successful despite not being terribly attractive is I treated online dating a bit like online shopping, whereas I think others treat it like a virtual version of bumping in to someone at a bar.
To give you an example of a profile I might skip:
My idea of a great first date: Just about anything!
Likes: food, traveling, and probably your dog
Dealbreakers: pineapple on pizzaFirst prompt tells me nothing about you besides you’re easy going. That’s a great opportunity to share something you like doing, squandered.
Second prompt is the same likes that everybody writes in their profile, and doesn’t lead to naturally staring a unique conversation. Everybody likes “travel and food” so, “Where have you travelled,” and, “What’s your favourite food,” are well-trodden and tired topics IMO. Either share something specific about food or travel, or mention something else entirely.
Third prompt takes another opportunity to save us both some time by stating an actual deal breaker, squandered into a cliche joke.
A better version of that profile could be (just winging it off the top of my head):
My idea of a great first date: I love to ride my bike! Let’s ride some trails and then get a dessert. I know the best spot in town for croissants!
Likes: blunt communication and lots of personal space to get to know someone
Dealbreakers: if you still live with your parentsFirst prompt tells me that you like biking which could be a conversation breaker about which trails you like, what type of bike you ride, and we could also talk about that croissant place, or our other favourite desserts.
Second prompt is useful as someone approaching dating you, and could be a deal breaker for potential suitors.
Third prompt states a real deal breaker which could save us both time, and it’s not something (religion, political affiliation, hair colour) which is usually covered in the profile and filterable in your preferences, or in photos.
In my opinion, there were a lot more of the former type of profiles, but I found it easier to break the ice and connect with the latter type of profile. The former profile is fine if you’re both just looking for a hook up and the prompts are secondary to the eye candy, but if you’re looking for a long lasting connection, it’s all about the prompts.
My question to those who are dating just a couple of years later: how have things changed?
whereas I think others treat it like a virtual version of bumping in to someone at a bar.
Little to do with your point, but I think it’s worth mentioning here.
I read this whole thing about how it’s absolutely nothing like bumping into someone in a bar which is part of why it’s so bad.
The jist of it is that in a bar, your options are limited. So even if someone doesn’t visually meet your ideal, you often get over the hump quickly and get to know them as a person which might all of a sudden make them attractive to you.
On an app, if they don’t meet your visual ideal, the next candidate is just a figurative swipe left and so there is zero chance to get over that hump.
Plus, in an app, you don’t see the group of people surrounding the most attractive options, whether they are trying to filter through them or have fun with each one they like.
Also, you can lower your tolerance of the less fun stuff because it feels like there’s always more options available. Like someone but they aren’t available on a free day you have? Someone else might be available on that day, so just pivot to them. Or try both at once, or keep the other on the backburner, only to discover they could read the sudden adjusted level of interest and aren’t as keen themselves anymore.
It happened once to me in RL. I met one girl at a bar one night, hit it off with her well. Then, that same week, she wasn’t able to come to another bar I was going to and I started out wingmanning for a friend by talking to the friend of someone he was interested in so he could talk to her and ended up going home with that friend. I couldn’t handle having two girls being interested and ended up screwing it up with both. But that’s what it almost always feels like with online dating, and I bet it’s even worse for women who get way more matches.
And on top of that, I know that Tinder makes more money if someone wants to find a partner but fails to. I know they have incentive to hire people (or bots) to match, chat for a bit, then flake out. Or independent scammers looking to chat and take money. I have a paid sub and had what seemed like a great match right as renewal was coming up, then she flaked before a date could happen. Who knows if she was real or not, she could have been but at this point it’s hard to get excited about meeting anyone, which makes it harder to engage genuinely, and I hardly feel anything even when I do match with someone that I think I’d really like.
I’m glad I’m generally content being single or this would be pretty depressing.
Gameification and weird cryptic terms like “high value”.
Oh man have you seen that ad that is all about how it’s a dating site only for “high value” people called like Elite Singles or some bullshit.
Literally they make it seem everyone is literally some Sherlock type when most people that think they are, are much more likely Lastrade except hyping crypto more.
I think everyone is just looking for a way to pretend harder that nothing is wrong and if they grind their face against the wheel a little harder they will be finally able to be good enough off to not think about it all. It seems miserable.
Haven’t seen it. I do remember when I heard about Raya wanting to bury the human race in a pit of acid however.
“High value” is also a term used in the FemaleDatingStrategy community, which is a community of women who advocate for traditional chivalry, abstinence until commitment, and strongly opposes BDSM under the belief that it’s essentially abuse.
I’m not sure if that has any bearing on the emptymology of the common usage of the term.
They’re flipping the Pickup Artist concepts on men, so that particular concept long predates app based dating and the FDS community. “High Value” is definitely a specific phrase used in discussing attracting women over 20 years ago.
FemaleDatingStrategy community,
I think I will tell my wife right now how much I love her.
I’m 40 now (married and have a son). My younger family members in their late 20s are having such a hard time with dating that they’re opting in for arranged marriage (which is common for Southeast Asians).
I do thank the stars I didn’t have to try the dating app scene. It seems soul crushing from the outside
I’ve seen too many horror stories about dating today
I felt like I had already missed that chopper until I met my current gf earlier that year
Idk dating seems fine, much easier and safer through apps where people can easily be filtered and sorted based on compatibility rather than the rapey in person approaches where you don’t know if someone is there to steal your wallet or entrap you into something.
I don’t see how the app will protect you if someone lies on there to meet someone and then rob them
Much easier to spot bullshit on an app. Duh obviously don’t meet at a place where you can get robbed either.
“Don’t meet at a place where you can get robbed”… hmm, big public spaces where an individual person lifting a pocketbook goes unnoticed are out, as are more private spaces where you can be held at gunpoint… so that leaves… where exactly?
City centre? Hands on pockets and bags at all times, keep to the wall and observe the crowd, be mindful of exits, all the usual stuff?
Yes of course easier to spot BS when you are limited to only what that person wants you to see through a predefined interface.
Sure maybe if you’re older and fall for fake news just because you believe everything you read on Facebook, but it doesn’t take much to spot baloney
On the other hand, it’s much easier to miss red flags via a dating app than in person.
Also, Dating Via Algorithms(aka via apps) is hell. Women get bombarded with bad apples and men have to fight through bots and (s)camgirls, and then hope the algorithm on the site even shows you people you want to date.
Does eHarmony still exist? That seemed promising back in the day.
Dunno Hinge works fine for me as a guy. Not many bots and no camgirls. But compared to my gf I have to like more while she can just sit back wait for likes to come in. It’s true tho that the girls liking me match better with what I’m looking for compared to the guys my gf receives. It’s not like super random or proportionally less attractive girls either.
What I really enjoy about it (so far) is that intentions are clear beforehand. I don’t have to overthink a hookup convo in a bar with some random person who will most likely reject me anyway.
This. I realize as a woman it’s easier for us when it comes to dating apps to just receive likes but the sheer volume of desperate people who will swipe right on literally every single woman can be annoying as they haven’t read your profile.
But they can be filtered out rather easily with a good system unlike people approaching IRL. Harmlessly ignored or ghosted rather than painfully turned down in a scene in some sort of public place.
Yeah I feel you. It’s defo some work to go through it haha. My gf unpauses her hinge for a minute and gets like 7 likes lol.
Facts. I feel like dating apps work great for people who struggle to approach strangers. The people I met with also struggled with this, but are actually super social individuals.
Same, nowadays I think approaching IRL is just too dangerous both because of neurotic people who will suspect ill intent automatically and people with said ill intent.
Bad apples exist irl too, but on apps I can filter them out easily. Back when I used dating apps was in the pre-swipe era with OKC and it was very evident from the profile what exactly we matched on and why and what we didn’t match on.
