Too god damn true. That’s mainly why I voted for Harris on my main-in ballot. She’s not Trump, that’s the primary reason.
Yep. She’s not my ideal candidate, but she is better in every single way when compared to Trump.
Since it’s easier to break things than to maintain, fix, or create, the choice is obvious.
She will most likely not be a great president, but could be a good one. If Biden wasn’t so poor on the Middle East, he would have been a great one, from a policy perspective.
Were there a normal option available to vote for, she’d be worse. But she’s better than Trump because Trump is just an acceleration of the ongoing trash show, while she is said show going on as planned - she’s the candidate from the folks who planned it, as in “establishment” and “big financial interest”.
And supported labor better.
And supported labor
better.
Maybe she’s just waiting for the election to be over before she disbands AIPAC and cuts ties with natenyahu?
And then personally arrest Trump and abolish the Electoral College while smoking a fat blunt.
I’m fine with how Afghanistan went. The military would have dragged it out for another 10 years. I’d much rather have a suboptimal quick withdrawal.
Edit:
Did anyone die? A quick Google search shows yes. That’s horrible. I’ve read several news sources on it but I’m wondering if you’ve found out the facts about that bombing? It’s more digging than I have the time for right now.Nobody’s arguing it was short-term better for the US. It abandoned to the wolves all of the people who worked with it in Afghanistan, though. And did that abruptly. Betrayals tend to have long-term consequences. Those who think they’ve seen a few betrayals go well without those, just have blind spots.
Biden never was going to be a great president, lacking a a majority in both houses means you burn up too much political capital to get anything done that doesn’t already have broad bipartisan support. And with how divided politics is today compared to any point in history where we had a great president, there is no such thing as bipartisan today.
Yeah, passing the new deal in the McCarthy era was cake.
… The new deal was passed 10 years before the McCarthy era. FDR was dead before McCarthy even started his red scare.
Do you live in an alternate timeline?
I was being over broad. The first red scare was after WW1 and was a prominent feature of Republican politics from that point onwards. If you look into the resistance to the new deal, it was the same red scare nonsense that McCarthy rode as a wave.
Did the Trump era start in 2016, or did he simply usurp a rising fascist current in American society? I personally think it’s more of the latter than the former. Likewise with McCarthy, but it’s fair that I was corrected.
I mean Kamala will be a horrible president. It’s not possible to be a good president when it is a job to uphold the American empire and its power. Kamala will be horrible though with her support for the ongoing Gaza genocide, terrible and half arse healthcare and environmental plans when we can afford to be half arse on neither, she is also trying to outflank Trump to the right on immigration and police violence.
A cop won’t be a good president for freedom, not a shock to anyone who doesn’t idolize a political party.
Prosecutors aren’t cops try again
Sure the meme is Kamala can be a terrible President, but I would vote for a Ham sandwich to keep the GOP from power ?
Absent of any anti-Trump arguments, I’d like to hear the case for Kamala being a truly great President. A few policy positions she, in particular, is notable for?
There are policy details on her website: https://kamalaharris.com/issues/
But it’s pretty simple overall. She’s not a maverick, what’s on offer is simply the Dem agenda with a younger change of guard. The Dems believe in running the economy from the middle class, because investing in people is how we achieve long-term economic success and improve quality of life. So all her policies are going to be the same they would have been for Obama or Biden: improve social protections, improve access to education, improve access to housing, lower costs of living, make the corporations and wealthy pay their fair shares, pull away from needless wars, strengthen international relationships and create trade agreements of mutual benefit.
She can talk policy until she’s blue in the face, but we all should already know exactly what we are getting when we vote for a Democrat. The last time this country had a balanced budget it was Democrat. When we raise the minimum wage, it’s a Democrat. When we try to make education more affordable or help those with student debt, it’s a Democrat. When we strengthen unions and increase taxes on corporations, it’s a Democrat. When we pull out of wars, when we increase social services, when we increase protections for minorities, when we secure our clean water and block chemicals and pesticides in our food and household products, when we raise fuel efficiency standards and make corporations pay for pollution, it’s a Democrat.
It baffles me that we have to talk about this stuff like it’s new. It’s simple and it has been for years:
You want a party that runs the economy like adults, and works for the middle class and the well-being of the people: Democrats.
You want a party that works for the rich and corporations, blows up the budgets recklessly, and thinks the low and middle classes are a resource to be used and drained: Republicans.
While we are on this spicy topic today, someone please remind me, what did Jill Stein do?
The last time this country had a balanced budget it was Democrat.
Not even balanced - Clinton produced a surplus during his last couple of years in office. Had we continued on that path, we would now be debt-free as a nation, instead of in debt to the tune of $35 fucking trillion (equivalent to a full seven years of tax revenues).
what’s on offer is simply the Dem agenda with a younger change of guard
See, that’s what I’m not thrilled about.
You want a party that works for the rich and corporations, blows up the budgets recklessly, and thinks the low and middle classes are a resource to be used and drained: Republicans.
While we are on this spicy topic today, someone please remind me, what did Jill Stein do?
You’re only arguing the “I’d vote for a ham sandwich to keep the GOP from power” side. You don’t need to argue that part, we all know this, and it isn’t what the person you’re replying to was asking.
No one even said anything about Jill Stein here, bringing her up now feels like a very bad faith argument.
Amazing.
90% of my comment was to explicitly say what Democrats do. And you managed to single out the 10% that wasn’t about Democrats.
Why stop there? Throw in some “both sides” stuff too.
90% of my comment was to explicitly say what Democrats do
To which their response was “yeah, that’s not exciting, we’ve seen it before”, they addressed it. You didn’t need to write out all of those words when you’d already summed it up well with “basic democrat”
Being a Democrat does not make you an inherently great president, it makes you the not-shit option
So, when asked for an argument that’s void of any anti-trump points you basically said “they’re Democrats. Plus they’re not trump!”, which isn’t an answer and includes the thing they said not to
Why stop there? Throw in some “both sides” stuff too.
Lol, “any criticism of the Democrats is right wing infiltration” is some shit taking for sure
It might not be right wing infiltration, but it sure is right wing talking points, whoever it’s coming from.
Sah yes, gotta shut down any criticism of glorious leader!
Fucking shit take
That’s not a denial, it’s just name calling.
Yep. I agree with you 100% and is why I’ve tried to stop engaging regarding politics on this site. It just seems like 99% of the posters are posting in bad faith, or insane levels of naivety. Perfection the enemy of good personified.
Nah, it’s just a few legitimately bad actors and a few naive folks. Most people here are pretty reasonable but it’s hard to remember the guy dressed normally that walked past you three days ago while you will always remember the dude in the thong onesie holding a sign saying the great old ones are coming back any day to battle the frost giants.
I didn’t feel the need to go over the DNC point-by-point. I said the Dem agenda is what I’m not thrilled about.
Do I have to go point-by-point before I can ask why you felt the need to bring up the Republicans and even Jill Stein at all when it’s clear that wasn’t the question being asked? We all know they’re bad, but the fact that it seems like the only way to talk about the DNC is to keep reminding us that they’re not the other guys, you were explicitly asked to actually say what’s good about Kamala without doing that.
Asks for good points about Kamala Harris without mentioning any bad points about republicans. Gets lots of substantial points and a throwaway about Stein. Ignores all the points about democrats and greys very cross about mentioning Stein once at the end.
https://lemmy.world/comment/12851475
What conclusions am I to draw? You just hate it when other people don’t follow the letter of your laws,even the ones you didn’t say out loud? That you hate discussing bad points about Kamala’s opponents? That people can tell you benefits of voting for Kamala as much as they like, you’ll never hear any of it and you’ll still assert that no one can come up with any?
I didn’t ignore what you said, I responded by saying I’m not thrilled about the DNC agenda. It’s all too little too slowly, without addressing underlying structural issues with capitalism. Did you need me to quote each line individually in order to say that?
What I don’t like is that even when the question is explicitly “Regardless of how bad the other side is, what’s actually good about the DNC?” you are incapable of not pivoting that question back to talking about how bad the other guys are. We know, but that wasn’t the question.
What I don’t like is that I can’t even say “I’m not thrilled about the DNC agenda” without having all kinds of accusations hurled in my face.
Correction, you can’t say “tell me good things” and ignore all the good things, then complain that there were no good things, without being called out on it.
Except for embracing firearms, I dont think she has a few poicy positions for anyone to evaluate. She just adopts whatever Bidens policies were. She did the same thing when she was running for president before Biden tapped her for VP. Couldnt formulate a policy position to save her life.
Start with what makes a good president? Obviously there’s the issues and all that which people focus on, but that’s subject to debate. Objectively, some qualities are definitely good, like being good at both urgent and non-urgent decision making, good at managing/organizing/handling chaos, capable of outsmarting adversaries, being a unifying force rather than a divisive one. Just to name a few. So let’s look at those:
- Decision-making: She’s relatively young compared to recent presidents, definitely a bit more in touch with modern reality and less tied to the old ways of doing politics. She’s faced a tough choice with her running mate, and while Walz has been criticized by some, given the short timeframe it’s clear she at least didn’t fuck it up. Her debate prep clearly succeeded, and she’s avoided any scandals despite clearly Republicans trying very hard to find them. All of these show a record of decent to good decisions.
- Managing, etc Obviously her campaign started in the midst of chaos, and there were a lot of fears regarding that transition. And it went probably better than anyone expected, with everyone quickly gaining confidence in her.
- Outsmarting adversaries She did a better job at this in the debate than any candidate in my memory.
- Unifying force Again I’ll refer to her getting everyone behind her after Biden dropped, while also keeping Biden’s support. Don’t underestimate how unlikely that seemed before it happened.
I’ll avoid comparing Trump who is obviously severely deficient in all of these respects. But I could go further and say she obviously compares favorably to Biden too, and compared to Obama, I’d give her an edge on outsmarting adversaries and managing, and Obama probably gets the edge on the other 2. But we’ll see.
She used to be a prosecutor. That means she can see things from both sides and look at things objectively and not make rash decisions. It’s a good quality for a president.
I mean My Only Hope from her being a prosecutor is that she actually prosecutes crimes, I’m not very hopeful of that especially with her seemingly not wanting to bring back Lena Khan, but I can dream. However normally being a prosecutor would disqualify you for me, good people don’t become prosecutors.
Good people do become prosecutors. Why? Because they don’t want to see bad people on the street. Sometimes you’ll wind up having to fight against someone innocent, but that doesn’t necessarily make someone bad. You have to prove without a doubt that that person didn’t do it. It’s essentially debating whether they did it or not. That doesn’t make a prosecutor bad.
Did she say something about not bringing back Lina Khan? The only thing I saw was that Mark Cuban said he didn’t like her (which is just another plus in my mind. If the billionaires are scared of you, you’re doing something right), and whoever printed the article decided to call him a “Harris Surrogate.”
Which I’m pretty sure is just flat out untrue. He supports her, and maybe he was even organizing for her. But “surrogate” means he speaks for her, and as far as I understand it, he absolutely does not
We larping pigs now?
JFC… Is there anything liberal about the modern moderate democrats?
Disgusting statism and corporatism is all they seem to be about.
They got theirs, fuck everyone else.
acab… But prosecutors aren’t cops and if your simple brain can’t comprehend the difference, then I don’t know what to tell you. Our society would not function without people in roles that enforce the laws that our government passes.
I would love to hear how you would go about punishing/rehabilitating/removing from society a murderer justly and fairly without prosecutors. Truly, I’m all ears.
🤡
Just because us system “seperates” them as some sort of check on each other, it is clearly not working in practice.
Look at how the system actually functions not what propaganda says.
No…that’s the Republican Party platform. The current Democratic Party is very much about make the government work for the people and do at least something to reign in the rich and corporations
do at least something to reign in the rich and corporations
I need whatever this guy is smoking
He’s smoking you lol
I mean there’s been a lot to help corporations and the rich I don’t agree with but the current administration has also given tons of resources to the IRS to claw back evaded taxes from the wealthy, made moves to bust monopolies and price-fixing practices, and while they aren’t directly responsible there has been a historic expansion of unions not seen in my lifetime
Also, there’s a reason why conservatives are fighting tooth and nail to stop every attempt he’s made at student loan forgiveness…
And even still, his administration has managed to find several novel ways that has allowed them to eliminate billions in student loans despite all of that.
A ham sandwich can be eaten. Eating is good. That’s 1 pt ham sandwich, 0 gop. Ham sandwich does more for Americans than gop.
The rich can also be eaten.
I’m gonna need a bigger smoker.
And forest’s worth of hickory wood.
Nah, I’m voting Trump. Especially since Dick Chaney came out in support of her. If the war pigs support her, I’m voting against her, 100%
I am braindead
Ok got it
I see you have trouble reading, I’m sorry about that, I wish you luck with that
lemmy.ml moment
Trump is just as much of a warmongerer as anyone. He nearly started WWIII with Iran by assassinating Soleimani. Dick Cheney just doesn’t like him because of personal reasons.
The only isolationists/doves are third party candidates, as has been the case for well over 20 years.
No he didn’t. We’re far closer to WWlll now than we ever were under Trump. Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, China is creeping up to attack Taiwan… And now Russia and China are tighter than ever, which is not good for the west.
Dick Chaney doesn’t like him because Dick Chaney makes all his money on War. He was literally one of the masterminds behind our war with Iraq.
Now, Mark Cuban… He doesn’t like Trump for personal reasons, lol.
Trump escalated tensions with both China and Russia, while giving total support to Israel. He bombed Syria, tore up the Iran deal, and attempted coups in Bolivia and Venezuela, while expanding sanctions on Cuba. Biden has merely continued his policies. There is broad bipartisan consensus on military spending and escalation of conflicts, and Trump has no real interest in going against that.
Trump talks out of both sides of his mouth to allow everyone to project whatever they want onto him, whether they’re isolationist or the most bloodthirsty of nationalists, and liberals paint everyone who disagrees with their interventionist positions with the same brush, which helps him do it. I wrote a post dissecting his language here. If you actually look at his record and his actions, he’s happy enough to go along with what the military-industrial complex wants. Here is a video that goes into more details about specifics.
Dick Cheney is obviously a horrible monster who deserves the worst, and it reflects very poorly on Harris to accept his endorsement, but just because she sucks doesn’t mean Trump doesn’t.
He was firm with Russia and China, but neither of them moved to attack. I don’t care how mad the two are, as long as it keeps war from breaking out.
I do agree that there’s a bipartisan consensus on military spending, but I think it’s between the Rinos and the DNC. Not that I think Trump will significantly defund our military, but I do think, with those he’s built up around him this time, he’ll be less likely to get into these proxy war situations, end the ones we’re in now, and hopefully we won’t see anymore US-backed coups.
The issue is, all of that will 100% keep happening under Harris. There’s a reason Dick Chaney didn’t endorse Trump, and it’s because he knows he’s not going to get as much sweet war money from the trump administration being in charge. He knows he’ll get that with Kamala.
All of that will 100% keep happening under Trump as well. There is nothing whatsoever that would indicate otherwise. You’re just going off of vibes.
I don’t care how mad the two are, as long as it keeps war from breaking out.
That’s self-contradictory. Worsening relations make conflict more likely. Trump is the one that set us on this trajectory in the first place. The idea of China or Russia being our enemies was laughable before him.
The reality is that neither part of the establishment actually wants war with Russia or China. They’re sitting comfortable at the top and have no reason to throw the world into chaos and jeopardize their comfortable positions. What they want is to rally people up into supporting the possibility of war in order to justify military spending, which they profit from. The risk of war comes from two things: first, someone overplays their hand, and second, that the people who are being rallied up to support war actually find themselves in position to follow through. Part of the reason that some people on the right, such as Tucker Carlson, oppose involvement in the war in Ukraine is because they actually want a full-scale war with China and want to close the other front to make way for it.
I don’t see how you can look at all the coups and bombings and rising tensions and unconditional support for Israel under Trump before and seriously think that he won’t do more coups and such if elected again. It’s just cope.
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I disagree. If literal nazis are behind you, i want nothing to do with you.
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It’s not purely that, there are a lot of reasons I won’t vote for Kamala. That was just a huge one.
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I disagree. :)
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Holy shit you’re actually braindead or something. I dislike Harris but I’d be dead before I voted for Trump.
Same, but opposite.
If it weren’t for the fact that so many others would get hurt as a result, I’d wish you luck with your choice and hope that you get what you ask for.
You absolutely deserve Trump.
Thank you, I’m excited for a great economy and being able to get my savings built up again. :)
Gotta say. It’s pretty refreshing to see someone from .ml being so openly MAGA. If only the rest of the “leftists” trumpers there were so honest about their intentions.
What does .ml have to do with it? It was one of the available instances when I switched over from reddit.
I do wish more people were open about voting Trump, but there was a long period where it literally could cost you your job, so I can see why there’s still some hesitancy. I think that’s going away though.
I don’t believe you for a second. But as long as you continue to believe that people are dumb enough to… that’s all that really matters right?
And who knew people don’t like hiring fascists, right?
No one but the actual brain dead think people voting for trump are fascist.
And even though the Nazi party was a blowback reaction to socialism, does not mean every blowback against socialism is fascistic. If we’re not careful, there could be for sure, but trump voters are not fascists, and trump himself is not fascist.
I’m not a fan of socialism, bud. So I’m not sure where you’re going with that, but you do whatever you need to do to justify voting for a fascist.
Maybe a club, or a ruben. I don’t know about just plain ham.
What if it came with Dijon mustard?
…… go on
Dunk The Vote in Aju
“Voting for the Lesser Evil is still Evil”
Makes sense.
I throw out all my old uneaten perfectly edible still in the packaging food that hasn’t expired yet instead of donating it to a local food bank because if I can’t give the nutrition-insecure folks a gourmet dinner, why should I even fucking bother?
We’re talking about evil, it’d be you have moldy chicken or moldy potatoes to eat, which is less likely to kill you if you eat it?
No, that’s the same evil… Poison is poison.
Ok, but what if it’s a choice between those moldy potatoes that are poison vs undercooked pork that’ll give you tapeworms like RFK Jr’s brain.
Surely the latter is the “lesser evil”. You get fed today, and maybe your immune system keeps you healthy tomorrow. Still a risky proposition!
But you could also demand that the pork gets cooked longer by adding some progressive policies like not supporting genocide, demilitarizing, and investing in a clean environment. I’d say that’s worth protesting for. Be a Karen, ask to see the manager, and demand your pork is cooked properly.
Except this is an electoral college, meaning you get Harris or Trump, a sub-par meal that will make you sick for a little bit, but you’ll be fine, or trash that is coated in poison and will make you sick for a long time before you puke your guts out, likely not surviving.
And not choosing means someone force feeds you the worse of the two.
Except not.
Harris isn’t a subpar meal that makes you sick for a little bit, but you’re fine in the long run. She is the candidate that will feed us today while kicking the can on bigger problems down the road. She’s the delicious tapeworm pork. She’ll keep the economy and war machine running so Americans can keep leading their comfy lives on top of the world for a few more years before collapse. This prolongs the damage caused by the petroleum state that we call America, which accumulates into massive climate impacts.
Trump is food poisoning that is a lot worse in the short term and for America specifically. Another Trump term is likely to lead to civil war and/or national collapse. America focusing inwards may be better for a world that America has been terrorizing and holding hostage with its massive military. America is funding genocides and producing more oil than any other nation in history. America has spent this century positioning itself as an enemy of habitability. If you realize that your survival threatens the world, shouldn’t you choose the poison for the good of others?
I suppose it all depends on how long we have until a collapse and ensuing paradigm shift under Harris (a short time will encourage me to vote for her) vs how dangerous the senile old man will be before we can overthrow him and build a new country. Harris is promising too much stability for what we need to replace; Trump is promising to be senile and easy to overthrow.
If Harris wants me to vote for her without hesitation, she needs to tell me how she plans to shut down the fossil fuel industry and the evil war machine. Trump is promising to run them stupidly and dangerously, and the ensuing damage may be better than keeping the planet-killing machine running. That’s the horrible decision of this “lesser of two evils” approach. I’d really rather vote to responsibly shut it down, but my options are either live comfortably while it destroys the earth or shove this stick between the spokes and hope that the damage of crashing is less bad than if we keep going.
That said, I already voted for Harris, because that’s where my judgement lands on this question. But it’s a serious question that needs careful consideration from everyone. This is a big and important election. Everyone should think very carefully and weigh the options. This is NOT an easy decision, and anyone who thinks it is has been drinking the kool aid of one side or the other.
In four more years, my judgement may land differently.
That’s why the comparison works.
Except it doesn’t because there’s a clear difference between Chump and Harris
well we already the “Worst President” < that dump inept man!!! so anything is better! Kamala will be AWESOME!
drumpf!!!
The bar is so fucking low man…
Thank you for being honest and not trying to pretend you care about Palestinians.
Is there a candidate that would help protect the Palestinians? Like a legitimate one that has even a remote possibility of winning? Nah? OK I’ll vote for the other things I care about then since that one is out of reach.
I think Kamala will be an objectively great president
That means, not just in comparison to Trump, but actually good in general. The moment you say or endorse that statement, talking about Trump or whether there’s a viable alternative is 100% whataboutism.
I respect you less than OP because you’re now pretending like you care about Palestinians, and it’s just because there’s no alternative that you support Harris. I prefer it when y’all take the mask off, because it’s pointless to argue against something the other side is only pretending to believe or value.
Did you have a seizure or something?
No, why do you ask?
Because your comment is so disconnected from reality that it’s the only thing that makes sense to me. Genuinely concerned for you.
The absolute liberal irony in this is fucking hilarious.
You people are just genuinely lost in hyperreality, aren’t you?
p.s. try sneering harder, you’re totally winning over the working class.
“If I act like a smug asshole, people will want to vote who I like!”
It doesn’t work for Musk, it won’t work for weirdos online who think bad polices are okay when it’s blue.
In what way is anything I said disconnected from reality?
I think you replied to the wrong comment. The quote you’re including and answering does not exist here.
The fact that you’re asking just leaves me more concerned for you.
They asked because they have no rational response to your completely valid points.
I don’t think Mama Cass would vote for a ham sandwich.
Don’t worry, voters will definitely hand both houses to the Republicans in 2026 if she’s elected and they’ll take their orders directly from Trump.
Because that’s what always happens.
It didn’t happen to FDR.
Yeah but he didn’t integrate the population racially so he got to keep power.
That’s not what happened in 2022, at least not quite. Don’t underestimate Trump’s ability to insert himself and mess up whatever easy wins the GOP would otherwise have.
I just hope Trump is dead by 2026.
There could always be some other MAGA asshole to fill the void, but the dissolution of Trump’s cult of personality would be a crippling blow.
There’s always an asshole. Newt Gingrich, Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump. And our electoral system and goldfish-memory population will continually put them into power.
Newt, Mitch and the others only have their local GOP cult, they don’t have the national cult that the orange turd does.
Okay, Rush, Hannity, and Alex Jones & The Turds.
There will always be an asshole. That’s the entire reason we even have government in the first place.
Don’t blame “the population”, if everybody had exactly the same starting conditions, they’d end up the same. I’m autistic and generally - from experience with people - think that every popular thing is crap and every popular idea is crap, and the more hated something is, the more wisdom may be in it.
But. The population generally has the same kind of memory as you. There are a lot of traps and distractions, they fall for some, you fall for some others. There’s no need to blame the victim.
They’re working on JD Vance to fill the void.
Maybe if that void is the space between the couch cushions.
