Honestly, it would not surprise me to find out that the secret service was slacking on Trump’s detail. Unofficially of course.
I think they are politicaly neutral
The institution? Yes. The actual people who make up the institution? Well, they’re people. People have thoughts and feelings.
People with choice, honor, integrity, free will, professionalism? Those kinds of people?
They may be neutral, but they could just personally be tired of his specific presence, so probably low energy. Also complacent, they’ve gone for over 8 years with zero imminent threats to react to.
I hate these filthy Neutrals. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.
I think they are politicaly neutral
That’s what I grew up thinking, too.
https://www.vox.com/23274533/secret-service-text-messages-january-6
Politically neutral???
was deleting Jan 6 related texts part of their NeUtRaLiTy???
Why did Biden clean house for his SS detail?
In theory, but humans will be human and biases can cause shifts in behavior, even if it’s only unconsciously
Are guns allowed on private property in that region? If so, what can they do, but wait until shots are fired.
Not really how it works when potus/former potus is around. They commondeer entire adjacent buildings and roadways. You don’t even have the right to exist in certain areas, let alone take a gun to a Trump-adjacent roof top.
Far as I know, guns are allowed on private property in any state, barring restrictions on what models/types one can own.
Some state’s laws say you cannot be armed on private property if there is a sign barring guns. Some states (2nd paragraph is Florida) give those signs no teeth at all.
Per ChatGPT, and this is pretty typical:
"In Pennsylvania, the law does not specifically address “no gun signs” in private establishments in the same way as some other states do. Pennsylvania law generally allows individuals who have a valid permit to carry concealed firearms to do so in most public places, unless those places specifically prohibit firearms by law (such as courthouses, federal buildings, schools, etc.).
However, private property owners have the right to prohibit firearms on their premises. If a private establishment posts a sign indicating that firearms are not permitted, you are expected to respect that sign. Failure to do so could potentially result in you being asked to leave the premises, and if you refuse, you could be subject to trespassing charges."
LiberalGunNut™ here. I’d be fine with property owners barring guns, and having the law back that up. OTOH, signs are largely meaningless to people who don’t obey the law. An abundance of such sign can actually be detrimental, “sign satiation” if you will.
I walked into an SSA office with a concealed pistol. The guard was eyeballing me, made me think twice. Went outside to put it in our car and had to examine all the signs on the door to find the “no guns” post. It was painfully obvious, but at the same time drowned out by all the other notices.
Bro quoted chat gpt lmao. I don’t trust that shit to answer recipes and basic questions, much less ask it to be an authority on law.
Your edit is wrong.
It doesn’t say they will charge you with trespassing for ignoring a no gun sign.
It says ‘failure to (respect the sign) could potentially result in you being asked to leave the premises.’
And that ‘refusing to leave when asked could result in trespassing’ which is what trespassing is.
No, you’re right! Refusing to leave private property is indeed trespassing. This is why I’m not a lawyer.
using Chatgpt as a source
wtf
I don’t know about that.
A hypothetical is if you pulled out a gun, and pointed it at anything. Police can respond immediately without waiting for you to fire, since you’re about to discharge your weapon.
Wasn’t shocked until I saw the map. Holy shit! How was that roof/building outside the hard security zone?!
I am, at best, a mediocre shot and I’m no tactician nor a physical security expert. So I’d be looking at the area with a prejudice towards my own abilities. That shot would be tough for me, but doable even with irons.
The Secret Service has much to answer for.
Got a link to the map?
Shockingly close, isn’t it? I kinda suck, but I could easily do that with a scope. Maybe with iron sights.
What indicates what on that map? There are two white and one black marker
Here’s a version with the labels still in it:
Holy crap that’s so close. Like not much past 150 meters.
For my fellow Americans, 150 meters would be 492 feet and 1 1/2 inches.
or roughly 82 bald eagles spread tip to glorious tip
Dude was a 6 iron away.
Ah, that helps answer a question I’ve been having, which is whether we’re sure the bystander was killed by the assassin or if it’s possible he was hit by return fire from the Secret Service. Being between Trump and the assassin means yes, the latter is possible.
(Maybe a definitive determination of which possibility happened has come out already, but if it has I don’t know about it.)
Wowwwww
150 - 200 m should not be a big problem for an average soldier with an AR and iron sights. Surely they would not aim for the head - which makes it easier too.
Maybe it’s simply because he’s not the sitting president and his detail is much smaller? I’m not at all familiar with the way FPOTUS security is run but I do believe I remember they don’t get anywhere near the resources POTUS gets. They’re also not often running for reelection so this seems like an increased risk, reduced resources situation.
Even still, the dude was on a roof only 400 yards away with minimal tree obstruction. How no one saw the dude climbing up there with a damn rifle and then set up in a prone position is beyond me. They’re claiming some people made comments that some weirdo was wandering around, but it’s baffling how counter snipers weren’t scanning everything and anything that allowed him to get as far as popping off as many rounds as he did.
Brace yourself…450 feet, not yards. It’s a reasonable distance for anyone with a good rifle, scope and experience.
Apparently the shooter was rejected from his school rifle club and asked not to come back.
Jesus, that’s unreal. That’s a pot shot even with a 22.
And yeah, I’ve been hearing that those investigating are having a heck of a time coming up with anything on this guy, apparently he was a real loner type.
All the more reason we really need more kindness in this world.
It is a bit surprising that there is no manifesto or any other indication of his motives.
Yeah, somebody should have taught him how to shoot better and got him a better gun.
His mistake was going for a headshot
school rifle club
wtf is wrong with this country
Not having the club. The gun fetishization is a different problem entirely than teaching kids to use a tool safely and effectively.
I remember the last attempted assassination - that of Reagan by John Hinkley back in the 80’s. In my opinion those Secret Service agents reacted much quicker & better than Trumps detail did.
I was shocked that their initial reaction seemed to be to just stand there like human shields, letting him try to mug around them. They should have physically held him down and immediately start pushing him off the stage. Trump was largely a motionless target for a prolonged period of time, which the Secret Service should have not allowed.
Wasn’t there a story that Trump had corrupted the Secret Service to the point that Pence did not believe they were there to protect him? Perhaps this is what you get if you prefer loyalty over competence.
Tbh it says if you’re going to assassinate Trump, use a Barret and aim for the cuddle puddle if you miss the first shot.
I don’t have the sources, but if I remember right, almost all recent presidents have had assassination attempts.
This is the only one that’s gotten as close as Reagan’s
During Obama’s first campaign Bill Clinton came and spoke at a local college (maybe for Hillary? I’m not sure tbh, I was like 12), and I climbed up a statue plinth outside the speech zone to better see. Some guy in a black suit came and told me to get down immediately
Clinton spoke at my college commencement. He was still in office, I suppose. There were snipers on about every building in the city. 1000s of feet away. 100s of ft? A team of at least 2.
During Obama’s first campaign Bill Clinton came and spoke at a local college (maybe for Hillary? I’m not sure tbh, I was like 12)
Fuck that makes me feel old.
Maybe it’s simply because he’s not the sitting president and his detail is much smaller?
USSS details are heavily supplemented by locals for events like this. Even if the USSS team was relatively small, somebody – whether it was USSS, local, or state police – should have had a location that blindingly obvious secured. That building was literally the only real elevated position with clear line of sight in the vicinity of the stage. The fact that somebody could get up there without immediate security response is really almost unfathomable if it weren’t for the fact that it happened.
I think so too. Actual POTUS security is insane. They can’t do that for all former presidents. People may see “secret service” and think it’s all the same, but it’s not. Still pretty bad though for SS though, they could have done a better job.
It’s not just former POTUS though, it’s presidential candidate also. It honestly looks like a gargantuan fuck up.
He is the presumptive candidate rather than the actual candidate. Of course that shouldn’t make a difference, but it could be a bureaucratic thing.
Still not nearly as much as actual POTUS which is insane.
Doesn’t matter if its the sitting president or former you clear the roof secure the entrances then have people check it periodically even if it’s visual from a distance.
Normal practice is as follows for dignitaries let alone former presidents.
Secret Service man’s the venue itself. Local police man’s the perimeter. Every roof is not only secured but actually occupied. There’s an officer on every roof that is a concern.
Again, every roof physically has an officer on it. That’s how it’s handled for ambassadors, senators, and obviously leaders of a country.
Or have one dude with an Amazon tier drone.
About 0 evidence to back this (only hearsay that this is what he does), but I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump surrounded himself with only yes men agents and was running with a C tier team.
I mean, we know that he choked one of his own secret service agents when he was presidient because he wasn’t getting his way. I doubt those guys have a very high opinion of him.
They need to give 12 year olds versions of high profile areas to crush out on fortnight so we can see where the real danger areas are.
With all the intelligence we’ve seen in Ukraine, one would think a cheap ass drone would have been helpful.
Simply put the secret service is not the infallible killing machines they’d like people to think they are.
The SS snipers were looking at the guy before he fired, they waited until he fired to shoot. My point being, they absolutely had the capability
Yeah but you need a hard ID that the guy has a gun. The second worst thing to letting a former president get shot is killing a random person at a rally because you thought they might have a gun.
Yeah. I wonder how many false alarms they face per rally.
Damn, that morning coffee hasn’t kicked in yet. Even despite the context it took me a few seconds to realise you meant Secret Service, not Schutzstaffel. Although the latter feels awfully appropriate when we’re talking about Trump.
yet one would think they would better secure one of the few roofs that is so close to the stage? it is not like this was a city square with one hundred rooftops and they let one slip. This was more like someone sticking a finger right in their eyes.
Idk man they returned fire pretty much immediately. How’d he have time to line up a shot? A not bad shot for an amateur at that.
Are we to believe they were just a second too late?
Knowing nothing of circumstances, I am willing to bet this happened because his Secret Service detail is staffed with loyalists instead of professionals.
I’m sure he treats them like shit too and any secret service member worth their salt would rather be doing security for Taylor Swift lol
Imagine dedicating your life to law enforcement, then having to give your life to an orange clown
He choked one of them when he was president.
*convicted felon
The media continues to treat him with all of the respect that he doesn’t deserve.
Nobody fucked up. This is how good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns. The bad guy shoots first. It’s unrealistic to think it would happen any other way.
That really sounds like good guys with guns do not and cannot actually stop bad guys with guns
That was my point. I didn’t word it correctly. The fuck up is thinking someone can be protected from being shot by surrounding them with “good guys with guns”. It’s a flawed premise. The secret service didn’t “fuck up”, they performed as expected.
Ahh, sorry for the misunderstanding
Not sure if sarcasm or if you believe the good guy / bad guy gun narrative…
I see people are misunderstanding my comment. I’m saying the “good guys with guns” argument is bullshit and this proves it. Trump is surrounded by good guys with guns. They didn’t help. Guns are the problem and anyone suggesting “good guys with guns” will stop gun violence is an idiot.
I mean the law can’t stop crimes before they happen either does that mean it doesn’t protect people? If you like freedom you kind of cant just shoot or jail people for no reason.
Guns are why we’ve had 34 mass shootings in July alone. Almost 300 this year. 3 in the past 24 hours.
Of all the problems we have in this country, it’s the one thing we seem to avoid trying to mitigate.
We need to try, and we’re not: https://youtu.be/BoHFjVR9Xyo [5:15]
Immediately after a newsworthy gun event, it’s “never the time” to talk about safety.
We have rights to guns, but not rights to have healthcare for when you get shot by the gun. “We have gun care, and health control” to paraphrase Newsom.
Sure but expecting anyone with a gun from an officer to a bystander to shoot someone before that person does something illegal isn’t gonna fly the same way jailing someone for something they haven’t done yet wont. No one would use that arguement to say the law doesn’t protect people. Hell the shooter was killed while he was stationed at his rifle, the ‘good guys with guns’ literally saved lives.
Gotcha
You know that fat old orange fart isn’t the president right?
nitpick: he’s not potus
Dunno, I’d address Barack Obama as “Mr President” if I saw him on the street.
Trump is a far fucking cry from Obama.
Donald Trump and Barack Obama are both United States Presidents and will both hold the title forever.
It’s not a matter of opinion.
I’d call him “Basketball Barry” and fist bump him.
He’d probably smile at that too
Barry O
Barmy B
A terrorist fist jab, you mean?
Barack Obama isn’t a convicted felon, insurrectionist and traitor.
Well. Hasn’t been tried for the war crimes at least.
I wouldn’t, but that’s because I think retaining the title after leaving office is ridiculous.
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He was American, they don’t require gun proficiency to buy a gun, as a consequence few knows how to actually hit stuff or how to maintain they guns.
Take bump stocks, the rednecks are so obsessed with full auto that they ignore that you don’t hit squad with ordinary full auto and then introduce an unstable stock.
I’m not a good shot, but 400’ is what? 120-130m? Shooting a diemaco c7 prone, even I will hit +9/10 when firing at center mass with iron sights at that distance. How do you miss that shot thrice?
Hey now dont slander us Rednecks, dipshit white trash suburbanite yuppies are obsessed with full auto. Sure full auto can be fun at a range but its worthless for anything other than turning a bunch of random shit downrange into past tense. Hell most folks I know prefer shotguns and bolt action rifles for hunting and general shooting.
How do you miss that shot thrice?
Be 20 years old and know that you will be killed as soon as you pull the trigger if you aren’t killed at any point during setup. I can’t even imagine the pressure that dude was under.
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That is feet. A double tick mark is inches. I apologize for our horrible measurement system; I wish we were on metric, too.
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I have to imagine a person in such a situation would experience an adrenaline spike which makes for unsteady hands.
The fact that a former president has so much security points to the real problem - the position of President in the US has been king-lite for a while now and Trump didn’t even start it.
Making everything in your country depend so much on one person is not healthy.
It would be a really bad look to spend almost a trillion dollars a year on defense and still get politicians merked.
Completely agree. It’s not about one person. It’s about confidence. Assurance.
Well. None of the money is spent on defense as you claim. It spends on weapons to attack. Not defend.
I’m not claiming anything, that’s what the line item is called, as in the department of defense:
Haha fair enough!
Attacking is defense. War is peace. Freedom is slavery.
The War Department existed from August 7, 1789 until September 18, 1947, when it split into the Department of the Army and the Department of the Air Force. The Department of the Army and Department of the Air Force later joined the Department of the Navy under the United States Department of Defense in 1949.
The War Department existed from August 7, 1789 until September 18, 1947, when it split into the Department of the Army and the Department of the Air Force. The Department of the Army and Department of the Air Force later joined the Department of the Navy under the United States Department of Defense in 1949.
You are aware that a fighting force can both defend and attack as they see fit. Yes?
Not only that, but having the entire executive branch come down to a single elected ticket is a clumsy and low-resolution choice for voters. Especially when you consider that there are only two tickets (blue and red) to vote for.
The position of the president is superfluous and should be eliminated. A president hires people to run the executive branch. That’s how senile Biden can be so effective. He hires well. The American people should be hiring (directly electing) the cabinet, the judicial branch, the top generals, the top ambassadors, etc. Those people could vote to approve/veto bills, or do other jobs currently reserved for the president. This would mean that our whole executive branch isn’t getting replaced every 4-8 years. I bet that if people were voting for each cabinet position independently, we would see a lot more specialized candidates running, and room for third-party break-ins to smaller positions. Each cabinet position is focused on specific issues that relate to that position. This gives voters more granular control over the executive branch. Have each position up for election on a staggered timeline so not everyone is up for election at once. Force the races to be focused on specific issues by making the election be about a specific department. Maybe AOC could win Labor Secretary, but that race shouldn’t have a foreign policy discussion. Maybe Bernie could run for Secretary of State as a referendum on pulling out of the Middle East. If we are electing people to specific jobs, we can focus on those jobs instead of all the other bullshit that the election cycle focuses on. Replace the presidency with a document/constitution that outlines the checks and balances, roles and responsibilities of each of these positions.
We have more information now and according to the sheriff deputies, they were right behind the guy. They followed him into the roof, he pointed the gun at them, they jumped off the roof, he fired at Trump, Secret Service killed him.
If there was a cop behind the kid then it makes sense as to why they didn’t shoot him right away. And if he was rushing then that makes sense as to why the 120 meter shots were so bad.
Cannon dismissed the documents case Monday morning. That was some slick cover. (I’m not saying the shooting was fake, but I am saying that she probably wouldn’t have done that in a calmer news cycle.)
In Slovakia a gunmen shot or PM pretty much point blank around 5 times. So they shouldn’t feel too bad.
Yeah, I think there are a lot of people in this thread who learned about the secret service from Hollywood. They rely a lot on local law enforcement, especially for former-POTUS and for unelected candidates.
I assume they thought they had visual coverage of the rooftop from the position they used to kill the shooter, and just didn’t see him in time. Fuckup, but hardly monumental or inexcusable.
I heard/read somewhere they had 5-10 minutes warning after someone reported directly to both police and secret service that they saw the gunman climbing up a building with a gun, so definitely inexcusable.
I heard/read that Santa is real and that you’re a jackass and I know that one of those are true.
Weird, all I heard is that you’re a jackass and that you’re a twatwaffle, and I know one of those is true.
Ah, who’s kidding who? we all know both are true!
Funny, sounds like you are just proving my point. That shouldn’t just spout out random shit you hear that someone could easily make up because they feel like it
From what I understand, police were on the rooftop- and fled when the gunman’s rifle was pointed at them.
Please let this be true 🙏 Ramen 🙏
FPOTUS not POTUS
*8 shots actually. 3 deliberate shots, pause, followed by 5 peppering the area.
Those weren’t counter snipers?
NY Times reported it as 8. The video of the USSS sniper shows he reacted after the gunshots.
If there’s one thing that makes me think false flag, it’s the panic firing not being aimed at Trump’s cuddle puddle.
