Actually I looked up the real story of Johnny Appleseed and he was more about making hard cider and selling land. 🙃
I wonder if that person would consider foraging for mushrooms and berries in the forest to be stealing as well.
It can be.
Poaching on the king’s land, you are!
Not all forests are public, and laws vary by location! Imagine that.
Bro literally says “in public spaces”.
Also; fuck private property and fuck the laws that protect it.
Can you point to the “bro” who “literally” said “in public spaces” in this thread?
. . . the picture you’re commenting on says “public spaces”. That is the context of the entire conversation.
You argued that “it can be” stealing “off a public tree”, now you’re claiming not all trees are public.
Are you trolling right now?
You can’t take the seed of a tasty apple, plant it and expect the tree to have similarly tasting apples. If you want to duplicate a tree, you need to take a twig and graft it on top of an existing tree.
Source: MinuteEarth on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIajCqcvTg8)
They’re also soil, water and other conditions. Doubt a tree planted on a city is going to have the nutrients to give you tasty fruits
There are plenty of fruit trees around towns here(eastern Europe).
And they do produce fruit. Pollution around major roads and things like dumpsters are a problem, but the trees are perfectly capable of producing tasty fruit.
Enter Andernach – the edible town
When grafting, do you need to remove any of the original branches? Or will the tree grow two different types of apples? Or some kind of hybrid?
Any branches you don’t remove will still be the original tree. You can have a single tree that yields multiple varieties of apples.
Costco was selling fruit trees with multiple different fruits in it a few years ago. One cherry tree has 4 different cherries in it.
If I had a hard i would have bought one and put it in my yard
I love that grafting is real and it works. It always seems like straight scifi to me.
The real marvels are the ones where they graft apples, oranges, etc together. Expensive as hell and they don’t survive as long though.
There’s an artist who did that, and created a series of Trees of 40 Fruit!
I think the trick is that it works better the more closely related the trees are. These use only stone fruits.
Well, you can just buy apple trees from a nursery, it’s what farmers do.
Yes but that’s because the nursery has already grafted the branches of a known-to-be-tasty cultivar onto that tree before putting it up for sale.
Yeah, I’d just rather pay someone who knows what they’re doing for it rather than fuck it up over and over again on my own
Grafting?
Take a small branch of a tree you like, splice it using a technique, take a small young tree of same type but different variety, splice it, attach branch of variety you like, seal. Nurture it, and the branch uses the donor tree to pull up nutrients and water, and the branch then grows into a whole new tree. It’s cloning, but grafting helps it move faster and without as much risk.
They were responding to the original version of my comment where I asked what the technique was called.
Grafting?
Your Johnny Appleseed comment reminded me of my favorite movie musical, Paint Your Wagon (1969) with Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin. And, yes, they both sing!
Elizabeth: Did you know that the Fenty’s had an apple farm back in Pennsylvania?
Ben Rumson: Apple jack, huh?
Mr. Fenty: No, sir, we did not make apple jack.
Ben Rumson: Then, what did you grow the apples for?
Mr. Fenty: Mr. Rumson, do you think that everything that comes out of the earth should be used to make liquor?
Ben Rumson: Whenever possible, yes.
Gonna paint our wagon
gonna paint it good
We ain’t braggin’
We’re gonna coat that wood!Gonna paint your wagon
Gonna paint it fiiine
Gonna use oil-based paint
Cause the wood is pīíîine
Ponderoooooosa pine
Correct, it was a land grab scam based on the laws of the time.
IIRC, if he planted trees it was then his land because he was using it, so he could then sell it for actual money. This was after the military had killed or chased out the natives who lived on it, of course.
IIRC
You don’t recall correctly, and I have no idea where you got that information. Appleseed actually was a successful businessman who bought some land where he planted tree nurseries, owning about 1200 acres (~5 km2), but by all accounts he was a genuinely good person, and I’ve never heard what you’re saying (and not substantiating) that he did.
Dude, who knows where I saw it but Honest Opinion says he’s a useful idiot and you’re saying he’s a successful businessman who bought land, completely ignoring the whole homestead laws of the day.
I’m too old and cynical to buy “he was a good person” in the US during that time frame. Sorry, not gonna happen.
Ah but you see, their comment has the message of “capitalism bad”, so it doesn’t really matter if what they wrote is true.
I’d go even further and say that this is more generic than capitalism/anticapitalism wish fulfillment. It’s a desire to speak truth to power but without any of the effort or sincere curiosity to learn what that truth is. To have that truth condensed onto a smaller and smaller spoon until you don’t even realize you’re being spoonfed at all is the ideal.
And you really think that at 62 I’m gonna go track down a historical factoid to satisfy the gatekeeping of a LEMMY sub?
HAHAHAHAHA
Shit, man, pull the other one.
And yes, capitalism IS bad and people back then were just as horrible as people today. You’ll get it if you survive to my age.
And you really think that at 62 I’m gonna go track down a historical factoid to satisfy the gatekeeping of a LEMMY sub?
Well hey, as a wise person once said:
Too damn many stupid people in this world.
Good citation. That guy is a genius.
He’s also taking enough gabbapentin to stun a horse so his memory isn’t super great.
Good cook though.
“I’m too old to care if what I say is true” what age do I get to just start saying stuff and act like other people are the problem when they call me out on pulling shit out of my ass and presenting it as fact?
Well, back in my 20s a coworker forgave me for leaning Democrat because “if you’re a Republican in your 20s you have no heart. If you’re a Democrat in your 30s you have no brain.”
So, I’d say never. Reality matters at all ages. Well, until you have deep dementia. At that point, enjoy the invisible angels that help you use the restroom. You need all the help you can get. (Source: my mom on the occasions of caring for my grandmother)
- You’ve still got a lot to learn, son.
Yes, capitalism bad, but uhhhhh
You’ll get it if you survive to my age.
OK boomer
Not quite, but close.
Still doesn’t mean capitalism isn’t evil, dumbass.
This is a dumb take.
Smarter than you. lol
popcorn
Share. I love tweaking these guys noses.
If it smells like shit in one place, it’s probably shit. If it smells like shit everywhere, it’s time to check your shoe.
Citation [21]“Johnny Appleseed, Orchardist,” prepared by the staff of the Public Library of Fort Wayne and Allen Couth, November 1952, page 26
Here, I took the trouble for you. He was not, by any accounts, a good business man.
Please avoid spreading disinformation. This isn’t facebook.
He was not, by any accounts, a good business man.
Hey, that wasn’t me, that was another guy. I was just relaying his statement. You can check his citation if you want.
Please avoid spreading disinformation.
It’s a meaningless factoid, bro. Relax.
He was not, by any accounts, a good business man.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Damn, that’s the funniest thing I’ve seen today.
What’s the goal here? Agitate people on line for fun?
You’re not arguing in good faith. You tell people that you are in your sixties and disabled, as if that’s excuse for your behavior. You add no context or sources. What’re you looking to get out of engaging in a public forum? What does lemmy.world get you that Facebook does not?
I thought he made his name by basically being a consultant and helping others plant their trees. The law at the time was you had to grow X number of apple trees and the land was yours. That was because apple trees take multiple years to grow so it proved you were taking care of the land for multiple years.
“Consulatant”: “Hey guys here’s a way to lay claim to government land taken from the natives. Just plant a bunch of crabapple seeds like I did and you can claim to be “working the land”, too.”
I’m not buying any good intentions here, sorry.
Did I say good intentions? Consultants get paid for their work.
And I’m sure you think this means something.
There are no good capitalists comrade.
Cool story bro
Yeah, Appleseed would generally move ahead of pioneers and start nurseries on land he thought would be settled. It wasn’t some land shakedown scam like the original comment is implying; it was a very useful service that Appleseed would even forego payment for to those who couldn’t afford it. Apples were a dietary staple on the frontier, often used for bartering, and sometimes, as you said, you even legally needed an orchard.
Well it was useful for the pioneers, however you have to acknowledge the massive genocide that was committed to make that land “available” to those same “pioneers”.
Apples were a dietary staple in so much as they could be brewed into cider and the resulting mash was then used to bulk up food stocks as feed for invasive farm animals.
Your comments don’t seem to address any of this. Why is that?
Your comments don’t seem to address any of this. Why is that?
Because that’s not at all what the original comment was about. Why am I expected to offer up a treatise on the consequences of apples on the American frontier in order to debunk someone purporting – unsubstantiated and evidently with no regard for the truth – that Appleseed was running “a land grab scam based on the laws of the time”?
Thank you for the further context. The original tone of the comment I replied to could have been construed as support.
more like johnny crappleseed amirite?
Sorry for the YouTube link, if anyone can find it hosted elsewhere let me know I’ll update my post.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=aD_Tyj-wbC4
Johnny never really profited. By all accounts he was likely neurodivergent and Apple Trees were his special interest. His labor and efforts to educate others was leveraged by others to snatch land up and proof of improvement to the land for homesteading.
The US government was absolutely at fault for the genocide of indigenous peoples. But Johnny was at worse a useful idiot and at best a roving horticulturist who wasn’t very good at owning land.
Useful idiot or not, the fact is, according to The Technician at least, he was a successful businessman, so somebody is wrong here.
I’m too old and cynical to believe that it wasn’t a scam, ND or not, and that doesn’t absolve him from complicity.
Do you have any sources that support your argument?
Probably, but I don’t care enough to look them up.
Factoids aren’t my special interest any more since I became disabled.
You’ll go about spouting things as if they are facts, and when questioned you simply hand-wave them away as if checks comments “being old” and “being disabled” are in any way supporting your point.
You sound exactly like my MAGA in-laws.
I can see you don’t come from a very smart family then.
At some point you’ll realize that not every little thing you say needs a citation because some kid on the internet gets his panties in a twist.
Calm down, buddy, you’re gonna pop a blood vessel.
Ah, ad hominem attacks because you can’t counter anyone’s points.
I see my maga boomer comment was spot on.
Then why are you caring enough to continue being a nuisance?
Either you have something of substance to say on the matter, or you shut up and listen what people that have can tell you, arrogant old man.
I’m both easily entertained and easily amused.
And you guys are apparently so thin-skinned you can’t help being reactive little bunnies.
Let me elaborate, because your ego-driven brain didn’t register what i said.
You’re not laughing at my expense, you’re laughing while shitting your own pants. I pointed that out, and now you’re saying that you’re feeling amused because of how thin-skinned i am.
The only thing i feel, is distaste and resentment towards your inability to accept the fact that you’re wrong at something as minor, your pathetic attempts to heal your wounded ego after, and your supposed tendency to make yourself feel good at the expense of others.
The last one is especially ironic considering that you seem to be far left.
If you aren’t going to find sources to backup your nonsense then please just keep it to yourself.
No.
Alright well no one wants to hear it so idk what you hope to accomplish.
C’mon man, he’s already established that he’s old! Once you reach a certain age, facts don’t matter, just fee-fees.
Because everything is owned by somebody?! Where’s the world coming too if kids are trained to be agro vigilantes?
My US city has a few parks with apple trees, herb gardens, and other edibles. I don’t think there’s any law or rule against people going out and harvesting small individual use amounts as long as you don’t damage the plant. They do send out volunteer crews at harvest time (for the apples at least) and donate the harvest to food banks.
I don’t buy rosemary because there’s a bunch of parks around with rosemary bushes.
The reason we don’t do it today is because fruits would fall on the ground and people would complain it gets dirty. As stupid as that.
City planners in the 60s favored male trees for this reason. Then air pollution and a warming climate, mixed with all that extra pollen, gave rise to a huge increase in seasonal allergies in urban areas.
If you’ve ever walked through a spot with female ginkgo trees that are fruiting you’ll understand way. There’s way too many to eat and they’re somehow sticky and slippery at the same time
Yeah, I’ve got a persimmon tree and pecan tree, all the good stuff gets eaten by the squirrels, what’s falls just makes a rotten mess.
Not just dirty, but the fruit falls on the ground which attracts bugs, rats, etc. that eat the fallen fruit.
NTA. Your park, your rules
We do have fruit trees in my country and it’s even normal for people that live around parks to plant them. Funny enough I’ve never seen a homeless person taking a fruit, always families.
A long time ago I visited Athens in January, it was relatively warm, but those oranges weren’t sour as they suppose to be, they were bitter, which I actually love. They are amazing at giving you this jolt of energy when you walk the mountains.
Get the falling fruit app and you’ll be able to find fruit trees in your area that are available for picking.
In my city, olives are PROLIFIC and I’m still eating last year’s loved that I picked and brined
Hahahaha I had a look and it lists the dumpster out back of Aldi near me.
" Dumpster (edible) Season January - December"
iirc Johnny Appleseed spread seeds so people could make alcoholic cider
162 comments and not one about lemon stealing whores.
Not sure if I’m disappointed or just old.
Yes, porn released in 2006 on DVD and uploaded to the internet in 2007 … You are surely very old …
I mean, it probably makes them at least 30. Im almost 30 and it feels quite old.
I was working as a private investigator in Hawaii between 1980 and 1988.
Tv show as well I suppose
This is actually a great representation of the difference in culture I’ve seen between the US and visiting a couple places in Europe and particularly Sweden.
I don’t know if actual public fruit tree orchards are a thing anywhere, but the general feel of “holy crap they can have nice things in shared spaces here” was everywhere.
There’s sort of one in the US city I live in. The city manages it and as far as I know they don’t care if you go pick a few apples. It is part of a public park that used to be a farm/orchard, then turned into a small golf course, then was partially sold off for housing development and the core farm/orchard area was either given to or bought by the city. It also has a community garden which always has a waitlist for new plots.
That’s the weird thing about the US: we do actually have nice things, and communities that want to improve things. We also have suburbia hellscape.
I know of a golf course which has orchard trees on it and golfers are allowed to eat as much as they want.
So rich people get free food but not poor people 😂
Boots theory strikes again
There’s a park in Miami that is populated by fruit trees that people enjoy…and there’s an unspoken rule/law that any fruits that grow over a fence are fair game , just don’t climb my fence to steal my fucking mangos again Lisandra
Upvoting and replying in solidarity against fuuuckin’ Lisandra! ✊
If you made public fruit trees, someone would try to pick them clean and sell it at a fruit stand 20 miles away.
This is true and has led to my new system for evaluating economic systems, what does it do with antisocial people.
Capitalism is interesting in that it actually has a plan for them. Let them be greedy little fucks and the system works for a while. Then they fuck everything up and the system collapses, either in a minor correction every couple of years or into fascism.
I would love for something like socialism or communism to work, but there’s this 1% that would pick the trees clean to better their own lot.
I don’t have any answer, but I have come to the conclusion that every economic and social system should only be considered viable if there’s a reasonable and compelling solution for what to do with the guy that wants to pick the fruit tree clean.
the anarchist solution is to abolish property, meaning picking the fruit tree clean wouldn’t actually give you anything besides a bunch of rotting fruit and others will probably get angry and stop giving you the stuff they make
Then no one has fruit. There is a non-zero percent of the population who would pick the trees clean for that reason alone.
Anarchy, like capitalism, works best when all the actors are rational. People are not rational.
this isn’t a “people will manage the commons” argument; “that reason” is property itself which anarchism wants to abolish
I get the idea: if no one exclusively owns anything, then no one needs to hoard anything, and everyone gets what they need.
Unfortunately, we do not yet live in a post-scarcity society. There needs to be a way to both ensure that limited resources are distributed appropriately (by whatever metric) AND to ensure that someone doesn’t take more even when they are not acting in their own best interest.
To continue the apples analogy, it’s all fine and well to say that no one owns the apples so anyone can eat one whenever they want. In theory, no one would eat more than they can, so there would be enough to go around. But how do you handle someone who decides they want to control people by controlling the apples? If they take all the apples, then people will have to go to him if they want an apple, and they will have to pay some price for it (and I don’t mean cash). What is the mechanism to ensure that doesn’t happen? Or, what is the mechanism to prevent someone from burning down all the apple trees because they don’t like apples or because they want someone else to not have apples?
The idea that no one owns anything does not stop someone with an irrational mindset or with a mindset to force their will on others.
the idea is that everyone knows the idea that nobody owns anything, so they’ll boycott that person with zir rotting fruit and stop delivering their own stuff to zim so this person with the irrational mindset will have to confront that ze’s ostracized. (of course, ze could still steal stuff from them if ze wishes, but ze no longer have the social feelings of receiving a gift.) if there are no apples anywhere else they’re supposed to revolt and take the apples by force because of how used they are to the status quo, and if that person wants ze can start a hermit life somewhere else and ask for people to join zir quest about rotting fruit
This happens in low trust societies with scarce resources and even scarcer empathy as the result. Also known as “that’s why we cant’ have nice things”. However, not only it’s absolutely not universal, I don’t believe it’s even the majority
Then let’s get rid of money.
In the Republic, Plato proposed that any citizen could eat fruit from any tree so long as they were sitting underneath the tree that bore the fruit.
By having a society with a culture that encourages empathy
Yeah I think the only way around that would be to plant so many trees that the fruit is basically worthless. Probably wouldn’t work in places with high population density
Rotting fruit is also a massive problem :) One of my relative had this HUGE fucking pear tree. When it hit pear season, they were begging people to come and take all they could. They would beg food pantries to organize, come and pick.
Have pear tree, can confirm. I used to fill my dumpster twice with rotten fallen pears. I figured out a new tactic though: let them fall, then leave the back gate open so the urban deer can come eat them.
Canning, freezing, salting, curing, drying, baking … Aaaaaaaaa there are still more!
