Actually I looked up the real story of Johnny Appleseed and he was more about making hard cider and selling land. 🙃
I’d be worried about someone taking all the fruit from all the trees then selling it.
Too many trees to harvest them all. People won’t buy it when they can pick their own for free. If people see you taking ALL of the fruit, not just what you can use, they will stop you.
you’re underestimating tweakers
I underestimate tweakers not being able to sell fruit that people won’t buy?
I underestimate tweakers not being beat up when other people see them trying to take all the fruit?
No, not being able to steal all of the fruit.
In times like these when federal agents are murdering people in the streets for filming them, it’s almost comforting to come into threads like these and see people still having the world’s stupidest debate about fruit trees planted on public land.
There’s only so much batshit crazy a brain can take before fruit related debated become inevitable.
That’s the point. Why have we allowed this to become a problem?
Some problems are good to have.
There’s an issue with Wild Ramps. Very very difficult to grow in a garden to that point that no one does it. So if you want it, you have to harvest from the wild and the places they grow is limited for the same reason they’re difficult to garden.
Foragers that find a patch growing either keep the spot a secret and harvest responsibility or it gets shared and over harvested to the point of destroying the patch.
Ramps aren’t the same thing as a fruit tree, but I would be worried about randos breaking branches trying to harvest the fruits. You need to pick trees and shrubs that are resistant to that. Raspberry bushes have thorns, so maybe that?
In my mom’s hometown there are fruit trees literally everywhere. Everyone and their dog has them. The public areas have them. The forests have them. There are fruit all over the ground. Nobody ‘steals’ or gathers to sell. They make alcohol and share it with anyone that comes within line of sight like pokemon trainers forcing you to battle. Also all of the kids are sick of eating the fruit but if they feel like eating any they don’t even have to pick it themselves because all the parents and grandparents will pick wash and even cut up the fruit and serve it on a platter with even the slightest hint of interest. I ate a lot of plums and pears and drank a fuckload of brandy.
What’s the town? You can’t just promise a bounty of food and not name-drop it.
I’m more interested in the moonshine battles. I don’t think I can outdrink small town shiners but by jove I’ll give it a shot.
For legal reasons I would rather not give the location of the blackberry moonshine still that doesn’t exist in my shed and can’t be bought or made for under £50.
Sounds like somewhere in the Balkans.
100% agree with this. Plums, pears, and brandy - I’d bet Serbia or Bulgaria, maaaaybe Bosnia.
Yup, this whole ownership thing is totally fubar!
(and yes, I do prefer to own things too, but there could be a healthy middle ground)
private, public, and personal property are three different concepts. most anarcho-communists have no objection at all to personal property
BuT My tOoThBrUsH!!!
that why billionaires are good 🧠
Yes, I’m just saying before the ‘they’re taking your stuff!’ people come out 😉
saaame lol. it’s amazing how certain political positions are like “you know how civilization is fundamentally structured around violence? what if… we just… didn’t?”
and then people are like “THEY’RE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR STRUCTURAL VIOLENCE, GET THEM!!!”
There are literally zero leftist ideologies who have a problem with personal property.
I wonder if that person would consider foraging for mushrooms and berries in the forest to be stealing as well.
It can be.
Poaching on the king’s land, you are!
Not all forests are public, and laws vary by location! Imagine that.
Bro literally says “in public spaces”.
Also; fuck private property and fuck the laws that protect it.
Can you point to the “bro” who “literally” said “in public spaces” in this thread?
. . . the picture you’re commenting on says “public spaces”. That is the context of the entire conversation.
You argued that “it can be” stealing “off a public tree”, now you’re claiming not all trees are public.
Are you trolling right now?
When I lived in the city, we caught people trespassing all the time stealing our fruit off our trees.
They would walk up our private driveway, and walk on our path near our front door, then load BAGS full and leave. I called them out as thief a few times, but those Mother F@$@ people just give a smug look back. These people were Pure evil. So happy to move to the country.
Before getting off notoriously racist Nextdoor, I did see a few folks complaining about this, they couldn’t harvest their own fruit crops because homeless folks would just come grab it all, usually before it was ripe enough to eat. This kicked off a big battle over who deserved the fruit more. Arguments that would have been better directed at the political leaders here who refuse to provide enough resources for the homeless. When we have to debate whether people can keep the fruit of their own trees, but we aren’t building shelters or allocating food at the macro level, then we have fallen deep in to the libertarian trap.
It’s people with Mercedes and BMW that steal from our trees, not homeless.
They didn’t get rich by paying their fair shair…
It’s pretty incredible, at least in the areas in the US where i have lived, to see who feels entitled to things and who does not.
Did you ever try peeing on them?
I imagine they walk too fast.
The seeds Johnny Appleseed used were sour and tasted like shit. They were used for making hard cider. No kids would eat them.
Cider production requires very sweet apples, because you’re looking for sugar.
It’s not a debate. This is just you being absolutely wrong about something, but being too stupid to do like 5 minutes of research before posting it.
Well, how do you like them apples?
Free
If you made public fruit trees, someone would try to pick them clean and sell it at a fruit stand 20 miles away.
This is true and has led to my new system for evaluating economic systems, what does it do with antisocial people.
Capitalism is interesting in that it actually has a plan for them. Let them be greedy little fucks and the system works for a while. Then they fuck everything up and the system collapses, either in a minor correction every couple of years or into fascism.
I would love for something like socialism or communism to work, but there’s this 1% that would pick the trees clean to better their own lot.
I don’t have any answer, but I have come to the conclusion that every economic and social system should only be considered viable if there’s a reasonable and compelling solution for what to do with the guy that wants to pick the fruit tree clean.
the anarchist solution is to abolish property, meaning picking the fruit tree clean wouldn’t actually give you anything besides a bunch of rotting fruit and others will probably get angry and stop giving you the stuff they make
Then no one has fruit. There is a non-zero percent of the population who would pick the trees clean for that reason alone.
Anarchy, like capitalism, works best when all the actors are rational. People are not rational.
this isn’t a “people will manage the commons” argument; “that reason” is property itself which anarchism wants to abolish
I get the idea: if no one exclusively owns anything, then no one needs to hoard anything, and everyone gets what they need.
Unfortunately, we do not yet live in a post-scarcity society. There needs to be a way to both ensure that limited resources are distributed appropriately (by whatever metric) AND to ensure that someone doesn’t take more even when they are not acting in their own best interest.
To continue the apples analogy, it’s all fine and well to say that no one owns the apples so anyone can eat one whenever they want. In theory, no one would eat more than they can, so there would be enough to go around. But how do you handle someone who decides they want to control people by controlling the apples? If they take all the apples, then people will have to go to him if they want an apple, and they will have to pay some price for it (and I don’t mean cash). What is the mechanism to ensure that doesn’t happen? Or, what is the mechanism to prevent someone from burning down all the apple trees because they don’t like apples or because they want someone else to not have apples?
The idea that no one owns anything does not stop someone with an irrational mindset or with a mindset to force their will on others.
the idea is that everyone knows the idea that nobody owns anything, so they’ll boycott that person with zir rotting fruit and stop delivering their own stuff to zim so this person with the irrational mindset will have to confront that ze’s ostracized. (of course, ze could still steal stuff from them if ze wishes, but ze no longer have the social feelings of receiving a gift.) if there are no apples anywhere else they’re supposed to revolt and take the apples by force because of how used they are to the status quo, and if that person wants ze can start a hermit life somewhere else and ask for people to join zir quest about rotting fruit
Yeah I think the only way around that would be to plant so many trees that the fruit is basically worthless. Probably wouldn’t work in places with high population density
Rotting fruit is also a massive problem :) One of my relative had this HUGE fucking pear tree. When it hit pear season, they were begging people to come and take all they could. They would beg food pantries to organize, come and pick.
Have pear tree, can confirm. I used to fill my dumpster twice with rotten fallen pears. I figured out a new tactic though: let them fall, then leave the back gate open so the urban deer can come eat them.
Canning, freezing, salting, curing, drying, baking … Aaaaaaaaa there are still more!
Then let’s get rid of money.
By having a society with a culture that encourages empathy
In the Republic, Plato proposed that any citizen could eat fruit from any tree so long as they were sitting underneath the tree that bore the fruit.
This happens in low trust societies with scarce resources and even scarcer empathy as the result. Also known as “that’s why we cant’ have nice things”. However, not only it’s absolutely not universal, I don’t believe it’s even the majority
This is actually a great representation of the difference in culture I’ve seen between the US and visiting a couple places in Europe and particularly Sweden.
I don’t know if actual public fruit tree orchards are a thing anywhere, but the general feel of “holy crap they can have nice things in shared spaces here” was everywhere.
I know of a golf course which has orchard trees on it and golfers are allowed to eat as much as they want.
So rich people get free food but not poor people 😂
Boots theory strikes again
There’s sort of one in the US city I live in. The city manages it and as far as I know they don’t care if you go pick a few apples. It is part of a public park that used to be a farm/orchard, then turned into a small golf course, then was partially sold off for housing development and the core farm/orchard area was either given to or bought by the city. It also has a community garden which always has a waitlist for new plots.
That’s the weird thing about the US: we do actually have nice things, and communities that want to improve things. We also have suburbia hellscape.
There’s a park in Miami that is populated by fruit trees that people enjoy…and there’s an unspoken rule/law that any fruits that grow over a fence are fair game , just don’t climb my fence to steal my fucking mangos again Lisandra
Upvoting and replying in solidarity against fuuuckin’ Lisandra! ✊
iirc Johnny Appleseed spread seeds so people could make alcoholic cider
162 comments and not one about lemon stealing whores.
Not sure if I’m disappointed or just old.
Yes, porn released in 2006 on DVD and uploaded to the internet in 2007 … You are surely very old …
I mean, it probably makes them at least 30. Im almost 30 and it feels quite old.
I was working as a private investigator in Hawaii between 1980 and 1988.
Tv show as well I suppose
Get the falling fruit app and you’ll be able to find fruit trees in your area that are available for picking.
In my city, olives are PROLIFIC and I’m still eating last year’s loved that I picked and brined
Hahahaha I had a look and it lists the dumpster out back of Aldi near me.
" Dumpster (edible) Season January - December"
Only practical issue, is that unpicked fruit falls and makes a mess. but I don’t think it is a big issue, as we already tend to deal with leaf foliage falling in the fall, and no one complains about that. there is also the concept of botanical sexism which has been fucking everyone with allergies for decades. So I will 100% be in favour of using fruiting trees in urban areas.
Look at Valencia, they put orange trees in the streets. and it is a beloved Valencian institution.
I have a bunch of cherry tomatoes plants on the outside fence of my garden. And 6 kiwi plants. They produce so much fruit and i deliberately placed them on the roadside on a road where not a lot of people even walk by. You know, so people can take some fruits if they want. One day my neighbour came over and he was really concerned that people would steal my fruit. I explained to him that it’s not really stealing when i even provide little containers to take some on the road or home. The conversation was way longer than i was comfortable with, and i don’t think he ever understood the concept.
johnny appleseed would also show up right after native americans were run off from their native orchards and declare those sapling riparian orchards his.
not a coincidence as his business was selling sour apple saplings to new immigrants.
johnny appleseed was a typical christian businessman using the chaos of genocide as a place to put his wallet.
and the US destroyed the last of the orchards that he claimed as his creation during Prohibition.
because usa.
Apparently apples were primarily used for making booze right from the start of the country, which does indeed make Johnny Appleseed’s story feel rather different.
Washington was a big fan of apple jack, which is what you get when apple cider is freeze distilled.
Much of the US is experiencing prime weather for apple jack actually, though it’s a little late to get a mash started in time for this weekend’s weather.
Probably not primarily booze, but vinegar. Prior to refrigeration and canning, food preservation was massively important. This meant salting, smoking or pickling. Apples that weren’t good for eating were important as a source for producing vinegar.
If you know what brewing with apples and not having access to modern equipment, sanitation and yeast is like then I highly doubt they were in short supply of vinegar.
Yeah, that’s… that’s what they’re saying.
No they are saying that it was intentionally made into vinegar as it’s primary purpose. That just simply isn’t true, it’s primary purpose was hard cider, vinegar was a byproduct of failed batches that few people would be in short supply of.
For alcohol, just deny it oxygen once it just gets going. You don’t have to prevent exposure to acetobacter.
It was for cider. They drank a staggering amount of beer, cider and rum on a daily basis in the early 1800’s. Cider consumption per capita in the was around 15 gallons/year. They drank even more beer and rum. They were also drinking around 5 gallons/year of distilled spirits.
Most people were what we would classify as functional alcoholics today.
Primarily for cider. Of which you can make vinegar, but that was not the primary reason. It was cider, which was the most popular drink in colonial/early US.
