Sexism is a helluva drug.
the feminine species
Does this mean two females are able to produce sexually viable offspring?
Idk what they’re called, but IIRC that there are some all-female lizards that can reproduce either by parthenogenesis or lesbianism.
You’re thinking of mourning geckos!
Female humans
Kinda long way to say women
There is nothing wrong with “males/females” though. OOP is making a big deal of nothing.
Men/women - gender (social). Male, female - sex (biology). It’s very simple, just use the right one depending on the context.
This isn’t as simple as you are implying as if you want to be a bro to trans people more nuance is generally required. Male and Female are not used strictly scientifically in context. Male and Female are often used as adjective forms of man and woman. Take the example of a male or female firefighter - if a trans man is a firefighter refering to him as a female firefighter using this reasoning comes across as fairly transphobic because it feels like you are either trying to utilize some sort of technical linguistic dodge to find an occasion to misgender them or your purpose is to out them to people unawares of their trans status.
Even when people use male and female as nouns instead of adjectives this transphobic reading applies because a lot of fairly obnoxious people will try and use these words as shorthand to imply that trans identities don’t matter and to avoid calling you by terms that align to your identity or to isolate trans identify out of discussions. This is why you hear the phrase “Assigned male/female at birth” used by the trans community (though it actually originates from the intersex community) or “birth sex” to refer to groups that include non-binary people instead of just male or female. That linguistic abstraction is important because it implies removal by way of time. In trans terms one can be treated as female at birth given the assumption of cisness for infants implying that that term could be inaccurate in the present day.
By contrast “Trans Identitied males/females” is a transphobic dog whistle. “Biologic males/females” has the same vibe because from a scientific prospect the term is so bloody vague it is practically meaningless. The speaker is just trying to imply the social category is irrelevant or putting emphasis on an assumed physicality. Like if someone says for example “biological males in women’s sports” you know the entire point they are going to be making is total exclusion before they even bother to elaborate further.
The reality is words Male and Female still represent social categories unless you append onto them more specific adjectives in term like Phenotypic, chromasomal or so on. These words are not immune from the cultural moment of negotiation of trans inclusion.
Men/women - nouns Male/female - adjectives
I think the reason male and female get equated with biology is because biologists need to describe individuals in terms of characteristics within the species.
Like, “I live with a small, white, female felis catus and a tall, Caucasian, male homo sapiens” is a weird way to tell people that I live with my cat and my husband outside of a scientific context.
Male/Female are also nouns, which are biological terms.
Outside of a clinical/scientific setting? It’s comes off a bit creepy. If a guy in a social setting refers to women as “females,” it seems derogatory- as if they were talking about look lesser animals.
In online forums like Lemmy or Reddit, if someone calls women “females,” I always picture that person as a Ferengi from Star Trek.
I wouldn’t have a problem with someone using males/females in a vacuum, but all too often I read men/females from incels and misogynists on the Internet, so now “females” feels derogatory by default.
Outside of a clinical/scientific setting? It’s comes off a bit creepy
Male/female toilets sound creepy to you?
The fact that it apparently doesn’t sound creepy to you is creepy. You priapic huuumahn.
Nah uh male huuumaaahn. You.
It only really comes off as weird when they’re used as nouns. As adjectives they’re generally pretty unobjectionable.
“Male/female toilets” is not the same thing as “males/females”
OOP
okay but how does object-oriented programming factor into it
Objectifying women is considered bad form. It’d be like saying they’re just a sub-class of Person.
Some are sub-class others are dom-class, and then there’s the gimps.
Excellent reply
Do women wanna be called “women” tho? I don’t mean this rhetorically, but as a genuine question.
I for example, would hate to be called a “man”. It just makes me sound old. I would prefer being referred to as “male”, or anything that isn’t the word “man”. This is applicable to a lot of my friends too. Don’t women feel the same way?
Not sure where you grew up culturally, but that seems like a very foreign concept to me personally. We use “boys”/“guys” and “girls” to demote young men and women. No one here would get the idea to use “male” and “female”, which to our ears are purely biological words.
Well, English is not the native language where I’m from. So perhaps it must be the cultural context for the word “man”? I mean, we don’t use the words “male-female” much outside biological contexts as well… I’ve just rarely seen anyone use the words “man/woman” for anyone our age (we’re young adults for context).
Here in Australia we use male/female all the time.
I physically cringe when I see Americans say stuff like “woman politician” instead of “female politician”. It sounds so grammatically wrong, that you legit sound like a caveman impression (ex. “Grug go car”).
Having said that, we would also never refer to women as females. There’s some grammar rules that dictate when we use either, but female is certainly the more common term.
Yeah, to my ESL ears man/woman are nouns, not adjectives, and using them as adjectives comes off as childish.
That said, “female X” can also sound clumsy, if it’s implied that a bare X is male, e.g. “politician” and “female politician”, vs male and female politician. There was a twitter account calling itself a “male programmer” which took the piss out of that trope.
How have you applied age to the word “man”? Unless you’re not an adult and “man” to you means being an adult?
Guy probably is between 16 and 25 and doesn’t want to be an adult lol
It’s all about context. There are options that are context and age appropriate that aren’t condescending or clinically reductive.
Men’s bathroom and Women’s bathroom > male bathroom and female bathroom
“Hey, guys/gents”, “hey, girls/ladies” > “hey, men”, “hey, women”
First woman President > first female President > first girl President
“First president with vaginas,” per above. Kinda like graduating with honors.
Apparently not. The world would be a much better place if we all stopped making such a big deal about specific trigger words and focused on the ideas being communicated. If someone’s intent was to be an asshole then sure, get the pitchforks out, but make it clear it’s the idea that’s bad. Don’t just scapegoat the word. If they weren’t obviously trying to be a dick then calibrate your response accordingly.
To put it another way, if you’re upset about the use of a word that a scientist might use to describe something then you’re probably being overly sensitive.
You are correct but social media lives and thrives on the idea of making people overreact to things.
Genders, races, politics… It’s all literally designed for people to argue with eachother while the owners profit on their “discussions” (actual discussions are banned because sensitive snowflakes needs protection).
Listen, I’m not against using any words. I’m just for using words, that if used cause no harm, and lead to people feeling better. We are emotional beings and it is unnecessary to try to pretend that we aren’t.
If someone wants me to call them “X”, I would try to do that if it is not too out of my way, right? That’s all.
science is often biased by cultural ideas. biology, medicine, and psychology, have been used to pathologise or naturalise things along social lines. this is also reflected in the language they created.
i think it is important for this lamguage to be reevaluated, as culture and the scientific view on the world changes.
No, they are not for you to reevaluate because you hold no knowledge or expertise in these fields. Demanding for outsiders to interfere with the scientific process because of their silly little biases and mental disabilities is a deranged opinion.
Based
Cool, start by learning what a ‘shift’ key is.
this is a conversation about accepting ideas rather than critisizing the form…
go fuck youself asshole
Go tuck yourself in!
P.s. bed! Goodnight, riwo!
I don’t see what’s wrong with calling men ‘men’. I don’t mind it at all, seeing as it’s a descriptor of what I am using the English language. What’s your problem with the word?
Not a native English speaker, so I guess I’m understanding the word wrong (judging from the other comments).
It’s just that calling someone a “man/woman” makes it seem like I’m calling them old? Like… I don’t think we associate the word “man” with youth, right? Like… Whenever someone refers to me as a man (which is quite uncommon thankfully), I cringe a little inside.
‘Man’ refers to human individuals, especially adult male humans. So the word is pretty flexible, and can technically refer to any human regardless of age.
Personally, I’d prefer to be called my name. To each their own I guess
Hello, my name! 👋
I suppose I can call you my name if you really want.
“Make me a sammich, jewbacca117” just doesn’t have the same ring to it
Birch, please!
With 117 I can only do chief, sorry.
… honey, there could be another reason you don’t like being called a man. 👀 Just a thought.
Nah, I identify as male. It’s just that the visual of a “man” for me is an older bearded dude with a deep voice… which I’m not…
Why would they want to be called, ‘boy’, ‘male’, etc then?
It happened to me. Being a boy never bothered me, but as I got older becoming a “man” made me dysphoric.
So I became a woman instead.
Fair enough. For me, any gendered language makes me dysphoric when I am not that gender. But of course gender is a very individual and personal thing.
I’ve never encountered a man or woman that hated being called whichever was appropriate
No, they want to be called LA class nuclear powered attack submarine.
We’re in shit posting after all.
Happy Xmas, ya filthy animal!
Always liked the strong silent type
You talking about females or farts?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Is that a US specific term? Do British women get called Astute class nuclear attack subs?
Girl?
that can still be infantilizing for an adult woman
Little princess?
Adorable little slut? 😡
My adorable little slut? 🥺
(it’s me, I’m the adorable slut)
Princess is a nasty thing to call a woman. https://medium.com/@viridiangrail/princesses-are-nsfw-f9e6c3d4532d
The wimwams
A guy walks into a psychiatrist’s office. He says:
“I’m a teepee, I’m a wigwam, I’m a teepee, I’m a wigwam, I’m a teepee, I’m a wigwam!”
The doctor says, “Calm down man, you’re two tents.”
‘Tarts’ implies sweetness
I think
Sir please stop licking the females
Mmmmmm’lady
clearly ingenue is the correct choice
or for a potential fun comment thread: is dude gendered? I grew up in a place where a lot of people called everyone dude regardless of gender. That said, when I’ve brought this up, some people get real heated about it.
Hey dude, don’t make it weird. Take a bad song and make it wetter.
Dude can be gendered
and some people will think you’re just looking for an excuse to call men people who aren’t, if you say that dude is not gendered to you
we’re on the internet after all, and no one knows the real intentions of the people behind the screen
Idgaf if dude can be gendered. I use dude every time in my speech. I sometimes even use “bro” towards women. People need to get over themselves and stop assuming negative intent at everything
My niece calls her mom “bruh”
I sometimes do that to my mom too
Same with my niece and nephews. They call everyone bruh.
I use “my guy” as a humorous precursor to the rest of my sentence regardless of whom I’m speaking to.
Idgaf if dude can be gendered
good for you, some people really don’t want to be called that.
part of respecting someone’s identity is respecting the terms which they want and don’t want to be called by.
getting them wrong doesn’t make you an asshole, getting them wrong and not caring does.People need to get over themselves
in this context this is identical to Conservative “the new generation is too sensitive!!!” drivel.
Do you fuck dudes?
I don’t, I’m married
Are you okay having the tables flipped and someone calling you “sis”?
Using male language as the default may not bother you and you may have no ill intent with it, but it does have a history tied to it. A history where women were seen as less than and didn’t have equal rights. Western society still uses male language slang regardless of gender (hey guys, dude, bro, bruh) and it all stems from a history of a patriarchal society. Every time we say, “hey guys” to refer to a mixed-gender group, we perpetuate patriarchy, whether we intended to or not.
Legally and overall culturally, women are still seen as less than and we still don’t have equal rights (e.g. divorce and abortion law).
women are still seen as less than and we still don’t have equal rights (e.g. divorce
Actually women have superior rights during divorce, in the western world anyway. Try to keep the children as a man during divorce.
Actually women have superior rights during divorce, in the western world anyway. Try to keep the children as a man during divorce.
Found the incel. Please donate my prize money to any organization that supports passing the ERA.
I honestly don’t think i would be bothered if someone called me sis. I think it would be funny even.
You know I’ve said “dude” all my life and I still use it all the time in regards to everyone. If I saw that someone was genuinely offended at being called dude I wouldn’t use it again with that person, but now that I really think about it I don’t think I’ve ever heard the term in a derogatory way. Like ever. For me it’s always been a happy/inclusive word for addressing friends. My only worry for now is that saying it shows my age.
If I saw that someone was genuinely offended at being called dude I wouldn’t use it again with that person
then you’re golden, dude 🙂
the dude abides.
Lady
M’lady
Tips Fedora
That’s NSFL bro!
Slab Bulkhead!
Cliff Beefpile!
“people with vaginas” is one option ig. or if they also identify as women, cis women is another option
I think “vag havers” is the preferred nomenclature.
Vager?
V’Ger? ominous noises in the background
Pascals vager
I prefer “pussy owners”, sounds funnier.
When did “people with vaginas” unironically become a way to refer to anyone, especially as an alternative to “female”?
well sometimes u need to refer to ppl who have a vagina, because having a vagina is somehow relevant to the topic of conversation. which in my experience comes up very rarely, so i dont have to use it very often.
some people who have vaginas arent women, and so if the topic includes those ppl, then “people with vaginas” is the perfect phrase to use. and if talking about ppl with vaginas who all identify as women, cis women is more fitting.
“female” is a very vague way of referring to something. some ppl use it to describe gender identity, others use it to talk about ppl with vaginas, others again use it to refer to ppl with estrogen-dominant hormonal systems, etc. etc.
When the genital sexuals came on the scene. You know the ones who want to check everyone’s genitals to make sure they are what they say they are. The ones who are only attracted to the genitals, they could care less what is attached to them.
For them genitals is life and they have infiltrated our government to pass laws like bathroom bills. This will allow them to examine everyone’s genitals. So far they appear to be winning and everyone’s genitals will soon be seen them.
The Genital Safety Administration (GSA) will need to have a booth in front of our bathrooms there to perform their checks. Another genital sexual licking their lips in anticipation next time you have to drop a deuce.
People with vaginas is the right terminology if discussing something that pertains to vaginas. Eg. “People with vaginas should make sure to see a gynecologist regularly.” in this case, saying “women” would exclude/misgender many trans and intersex people who have vaginas but are not women, while also including some women who do not have vaginas and would not need to see a gynecologist
The person you replied to said “female” though. As far as I know, “Man”/“Woman” is on the gender side while “Male”/“Female” is on the sex side, based purely on things like reproductive organs, chromosomes and hormones.
Although taking all three into account may just make it hard to determine. But it does imply that “male woman” and “female man” are also valid combinations.
“Male”/“Female” is on the sex side, based purely on things like reproductive organs, chromosomes and hormones.
Not really, I don’t think. They’re just the adjectives where woman/man are the nouns. If you talk about a male coworker I assume he’s a man, not that you checked his birth certificate.
Sex is a lot more complicated than male/female. There’s a bunch of different sex characteristics that make up “sex” and people can have all sorts of different combinations of them. If you just use a male/female binary, that doesn’t tell people what sex characteristic you’re referring to. Maybe something affects people based on chromosones, in which case people who are xy but otherwise “female” (like with cais) would go in the “male” category and vice versa. Or maybe something affects people based on hormones, in which case transgender people taking hrt would have to be categorized based on that. If you say “male/female”, no one knows if you’re talking about hormones, or genitals, or chromosones, or gonads, or whatever else, so it’s best to be specific and use language like “people with [body part]”
Male and Female are still normative exclusionary categories that describe trends within physiology and not hard rules or limits. Sex is not a golden rule. It is a human created category in the same way gender is.
If you want to talk about specific anatomy there is no reason why you can’t talk about the anatomy you’re referring to.
Casual erasure of post-op trans people is really fascinating to me. Like, how did our culture shift from the first thing people think about trans people being “have you had tHe sURgErY yet???” to “if you have a vagina and are a woman you are cis”?
i know this is an old comment, but i wanted to reply anyway. im sorry for my comment. i hadnt thought about post-op trans ppl at all.
to clarify however, it wasnt the “first thing” i thought abt trans ppl, im trans myself actually.
i guess ive had too much contact with pre-op or never-op trans ppl and too little with post-op ppl to have this on my radar.
i will try to be better in the future!
‘Extra-chromo-sapiens’.
The other ones are ‘whiny-chromo-sapiens’.
‘Arsehole’ is a good cross gender term for any humans of known or unknown sex.
Im a hoe and I dont have a vagina so it clearly doesn’t even work 😋
I hate that society attached hoe to women like equal rights men can be slutty
Could you see to my garden plx
feminine species
I call em Snatchers
Is the cute name “beaver” still used?
Are Beavers really cute? The teeth of these large water rodents are orange because they are full of iron, these teeth never stop growing.
But if you are being serious, women don’t really like being reduced to names that refer to their pudendum. It is objectifying.
Source: Canadian woman.
Of course women don’t like being reduced to names. But all hetero males do it. It starts with little boys in grammar school and no matter how old you are it never stops. Now this is not something that a normal guy would ever say out loud to a woman but they are thinking it just the same. Human nature has embedded this into the hetero male DNA. It’s not a denegration of women. Every male has a mother, sister, or daughter and would never want them disrespected.
As far as male slang terms for vagina, I think it’s a long list. Though I don’t think women use many slang terms for male anatomy. I’d guess because sex for a woman is mostly emotional. For a guy, while it may be emotional it is foremost a fun physical activity which makes it easier to joke about. Remembering back to my grammar school days, I believe the origin of “beaver” is that back then women had lots of pubic hair. Pubic hair trimming and “landing pads” were not in vogue. And the pubic hair surrounding a vagina sort of had the look of a “beaver”.
