I don’t consider myself a prepper, but I do prepare for unlikely scenarios with highly negative outcomes. In terms of expected value vs. investment, I think having a “go” or “get home” bag is cheap and useful. I have two weeks of food and water supplies to shelter in place. I have face masks and hazmat suits (they came vacuum sealed so they just sit in the bottom of the shelter in place Tupperware bin). A solar generator and battery. A few medkits and some basic medicines including prescription antibiotics. And then my camping/hiking stuff: so more mres, water purification, water filter, fire kit etc.
All in all, it didn’t cost much, it doesn’t take up much room, and it’s good to have. I’m not necessarily worried about a revolution so much as, in order if likelihood: a bad storm, electrical grid issues, or mild civil unrest. All of which I’ve been through before, so I guess they’re not exactly black swan events.
Make sure the antibiotics don’t expire. Most of them just become useless when they expire, but Tetracycline becomes poisonous when it expires. Also, not all antibiotics are good for all infections, so make sure the ones you have are useful for the kinds of infections you anticipate.
Good to know about tetracycline, but drugs don’t magically become useless after an arbitrary expiry date.
Most prescription medicines are still quite effective after the expiration date. Various studies have shown they’re still effective even decades after the expiration date.
As someone who works in medicine, I would just caution you to take that with a grain of salt, especially since they repeatedly mention the storage of said medications. Not all pill bottles are airtight, and if you keep them somewhere that isn’t always less than 75 degrees Fahrenheit or so, I wouldn’t trust them more than a year past the expiration date. Note also, when they say “cool, dark place” that is not accounting for freezing temperatures which can also mess with the medications.
All this to say: if you have emergency medications, cycle them out with new ones as often as possible, and store them in airtight containers in a climate controlled area of your house.
This strikes me as a classic early-med-student response. Your appear to be missing the point of the study and the broader research behind drug expiration. The journal touches on storage conditions twice, but largely in the context of resource-limited areas. The researchers, with advanced degrees and extensive knowledge in medication degradation by the way, have supported their claims with evidence from multiple studies. For example, a review by Lyon et al. (2006) and the Shelf-Life Extension Program (SLEP) studies echo similar conclusions. There are also additional peer-reviewed articles that come to the same conclusions.
Blister packs, like those my medication is in, provide an airtight seal, so your blanket advice on storage is off the mark. Even if they weren’t in blister packs, the article and sources note that degradation is generally minimal, even if stored in a non air-tight-sealed container. Additionally, guessing a random one-year rule ignores peer-reviewed science. For someone in medical school, it would be better for you to focus on understanding the research and deferring to it when appropriate rather than stretching to offer input on irrelevant conditions. I appreciated your point on tetracycline and noted it, but beyond that, your comment seems more about proving you know something than contributing to this specific conversation.
The article you listed reads more like preliminary research more than anything else, and aside from medical school, I have done research into drug expiration on my own given that I have multiple complex health problems and I need to know how long I can count on my medication being effective if I needed to stockpile it. My background education in organic and general chemistry tell me that the two biggest concerns are humidity and temperature. You can also get information from the drug manufacturers about storage recommendations and cautions about efficacy following improper storage. If humidity or extreme temperatures (like where I live in Minnesota) come into play, the guidelines get a lot more fuzzy.
Also noted in there, a concern with antibiotics in particular is, that while they will retain some efficacy, the diminished effects over time can lead to more problems with resistance, and that can become important in a single individual depending on their colonization status and how often they end up needing to use the antibiotics.
Don’t get me wrong, keeping a stockpile of medications is important (I’m trying to build up a buffer that I cycle out for some of my more critical medications) but it has to be done with cognizance and awareness of the pitfalls of such a practice. Personally, I would not trust my life to medication that has been expired for more than about 3 years if it is at all avoidable which is why I cycle my stockpile each time I get a refill. (i.e. putting the new meds in the storage container and taking the ones that were in there so that the storage is never more than a couple months old) I’m on a couple medications that stopping them suddenly for even a few days has the potential to put me in the hospital if not end up being lethal depending on the severity of the withdrawal.
👍
Also, I have a very strong suspicion that the medication you have on hand is Azithromycin (because very few medications come in blister packs), so here’s a list of infections that a Z-pak is good for:
If it’s not on this list (like pretty much any gram negative, anaerobic, or gram positive with resistant features like MRSA, among others) I wouldn’t count on the Z-pak actually being useful.
Yeah I fill up some whisky bottles with tap water and keep them in the cupboard. I guess in an insane scenario I might need to use it as drinking water, though I’d probably want to figure out how to boil that water first since it’s been sitting there for awhile.
I have actually used that water… but just to wash my hands when they turn off the water in the building when they’re doing some maintenance.
Sometimes some disaster preparedness is just useful for relatively banal circumstances.
Yeah, I feel much the same. Shit happens sometimes and it’s good to be prepared. That goes for situations where civilization is collapsing and also in day to day life too. “Preppers” are so hyper fixated on one particular hyper-individual fantasy outcome. The merits of, say, integrating into a mutual aid network are completely missed.
It’s always so much more useful to have AND KNOW WHERE every one-off necessity you might need is. A flashlight and spare batteries. First aid supplies. Spare medication. Superglue. A good utility knife. Emergency bedding. Enough shelf stable food for a few days. Some card games to pass the time. A few creature comforts that are easy to keep on hand. An appropriate weapon you practice with regularly. Some space an unhoused friend could crash for a week.
You get whatever you can together and organized and then you SHARE IT, because these things will all solve day to day problems for people in your life who maybe don’t have them on hand. And then you pay attention to other needs that come up and make small additions so you’re prepared for the needs of people you care about. And then boom there you go you’ve done actual fucking preparation! And get to sleep a little easier knowing you’re ready for a lot more that life could throw at you.
Margaret Killjoy has a great podcast on effective preparation that comes from a very practical community readiness perspective. Definitely worth a listen. Live Like The World Is Dying
My weapon of choice is my razor-sharp wit!
I’m going to die, aren’t I.
You were destined to die the day you were born. It’s all just a matter of when and where.
But if you were born and raised in an urbane urban city, yep, the odds are probably pretty high you are going to be among the first to die.
But I do salute you wit Sir/Madam!
Hey don’t underestimate it! If that’s what ya got, lean into it if you need to. If you can be quick on your feet and convince someone you’re not worth the trouble that can already keep you out of danger. You can always pick up a more physical weapon later, or that just might not be your thing, you’ll figure what works for you.
We’re all gunna die, so no worries! Right? 😮
I suppose it depends on where you live and the sorts of things that are likely to happen. For me personally where I live I can’t think of anything that would really require that level of preparation.
An appropriate weapon you practice with regularly.
You know someone’s American when…
Well yes, but I don’t even necessarily mean a gun :P
Either way, very American attitude.
Preppers: I’m ready for anything; economic collapse, zombies, apocalypse, sinkholes, foreign invasion, aliens…anything!
[covid-19 hits]
Preppers: fuck this i’m not wearing a mask! it’s all a hoax!
Also preppers: I need to go to the store and buy 27 cases of toilet paper!
On a deeper level I think it’s mostly a framework of acceptability some people have built around being antisocial and afraid of everything.
Saw an episode of doomsday preppers years ago. These dudes had a whole property out in Oregon or Washington state designed to endure a potential onslaught of zombies.
They had to quickly evacute their property and leave all their fancy stuff, because of a very real forest fire that came to visit, for which they were entirely unprepared.
“Zombies”. If you let them talk, it’ll be pretty obvious that they’re looking for a legal loophole to kill somebody. “Zombies” just means city people, which just means black people. They’ll kill a white guy if that’s what their lifelong dream comes to, but they’d feel bad about it later.
I’d rather not talk to them, unless it’s for camping supply recommendations.
Even then I wouldn’t do it because they’ll recommend the most over the top version of every product. When really all you want is a cheap camping stove which you’re probably going to use for 2 weeks out of the year.
I’ve been finding the crazy building in arid environments odd, because even aside from forest fires, if your water supply dries up, you’re going to have to uproot and move to a state or location with a reliable water source. And you’ll be part of a big mass of climate migrants at that point.
Why the hate on prerppers in this comment section? It sounds kinds fun tbh, and the skills of living in the woods are useful even outside of apocalypse.
Because a lot of them are far right nutjobs.
I’m not hating on all preppers, one of my partners is one. She has a massive food garden, quite a few guns (though that’s largely because her ex is armed and violent), and cultivates skills useful in dangerous situations, such as woodwork and textile work. That’s not the judgement.
The judgement is for the ones who openly fantasize about city folk dying in a disaster and dream of using their hoarded food to buy human beings.
Sounds fun. But there’s a huge Venn diagram overlap between them and the sovcits, covid-hoax, various types of “truthers” and doomsday cult types. So the target market, if you’re marketing to preppers, is not just the clever Doctor Stone cosplayers.
Do you think it has anything to do with, like, the entire text of what I posted above?
The irony in the “prepping” movement these days is that it was never intended to be this thing about having an inaccurate l inexhaustible supply of resources just for you and your family (if you’re still on speaking terms with them) to live off of when the nukes fall.
It’s not about sitting in your attic and picking off starving people who are looking for a meal while you sit on a cache of food and ammunition.
It’s supposed to be about being a useful person in your community who can help each other weather the worst in life. You will get much further in a disaster if you have skills than if you have stuff. You might have an entire Home Depot to yourself, but it’s far too late to learn carpentry when the rain starts to fall.
It’s not about sitting in your attic and picking off starving people who are looking for a meal while you sit on a cache of food and ammunition.
Unfortunately for many it is.
I don’t really generally circulate with far right wing folk. However this is one place that overlaps with my interests. One of the most unlikely intersections between the far left and the far right is home solar power. When you start to stray way from purely commercial groups trying to sell you stuff, you get to the DIY solar community.
Here you’ll find multi-gun toting, hardcore Randian libertarians, that “want the damn government control out of their lives” right next too tree hugging, LGBTQ/feminist equality supporting, carbon-neutralling liberals. Both groups squint hard not to see who they’re talking to or asking for advice on Charge Controllers, panel interconnects, AC inverter config settings, or off-grid battery solutions. Every now and then one person from one side or the other won’t be able to help themselves and they’ll make reference to their particular extreme political views. Everyone just holds their breath hoping a fight doesn’t break out and most of the time its just ignored by both sides.
In here you’ll find those far right preppers and they are convinced that they’ll have to be 100% self supporting when the government falls “real soon now”.
Unfortunately for the gunmen in this example, their guns will wear and tear. A crucial part or two will fail and not be replaceable. Then their entire strategy of “kill everyone else” will fall apart. And that’s aside from the fact that human societies have always flourished because we have worked with rather than against each other.
True, but remember they don’t think that way, because it messes up their fantasy.
Have you heard the nonsense the owner of Reddit spouts constantly? About how he was so good at hoarding that he’ll have a private army and slaves and people will come crawling on their knees to serve him for a little food and he’ll be a king? These losers all think like that, and facts like tools break and bullets run out and you have to cast more and get the supplies to do so just ruins their dreams of being an unstoppable tyrant.
That’s what they say.
What they think is all the underaged girls will come running to willing beg to do anything for protection.
That’s the true prepper fantasy, it’s just a middle age crisis made manifest.
Also just praetorian shit happens. Having resources is insufficient, your guards have to like you or fear the consequences of banding together to kill you
Unfortunately for the gunmen in this example, their guns will wear and tear.
Their guns will be worthless long before they wear out. They are going to run out of ammo eventually. None of these folks are capable of manufacturing modern nitrocellulose gun powder or primer caps necessary to reload their fancy rifles and handguns. I don’t even see them taking a more pragmatic path of learning how to make old school black powder for muzzle loaders which they could conceivable made in their bunkers. Admittedly, I’m on the tree-hugger/equality side and don’t even own a gun. These are just my observations from outside their group.
Were these preppers more honest with themselves, there would be another area they would overlap with many on the far left: Cosplay.
And that’s aside from the fact that human societies have always flourished because we have worked with rather than against each other.
100% agree. Our survival as a species has always depended on us working together.
I have acquaintances that would definitely be considered classic preppers. One told me that he has 10k plus (each!) of rounds for multiple calibers of weapons, and a years worth of food for each of his family members in a “bunker” on his property. It’d take a LONG time to burn through that many rounds.
Ammo starts to degrade after about 10-20 years assuming your storing it well. Which is less likely to be true in the “end times”. 2 decades is a long time but depending on your age it’s not a life time, and firing damaged ammo can be dangerous.
Fire (and more importantly, smoke) is a powerful tool. Displace enough air and people start either getting away or dropping.
So, he’s one of the people who drove ammunition prices up.
I think he’s had a stockpile since forever, but probably yeah.
None of these folks are capable of manufacturing modern nitrocellulose gun powder or primer caps necessary to reload their fancy rifles and handguns.
This gave me a thought, would having equipment for ammonia and other chemicals (for fertiliser as well as explosives) be useful for preppers?
The only thing the paranoid preppers did was raise the price of ammunition.
Going back to COVID. one had to wear a MOPP IV suit and decontaminate everything you touch 24/7, including the interior of your car and the ultimate petri dish, your mobile phone. For the folks who grew a beard and wore a mask, FU, you compromised the mask.
Me, buying some extra rice, pasta and salt, watching my neighbor buying large game butchering knife kit (we live in the suburbs)
Sounds like a smart guy. He gets meat AND all your dried goods!
I would add to this that covid did cause a major resurgence in a different flavor of prepper: “back to the earth” people who strive to, among other things, produce more of their own food (be it growing produce, raising livestock, or even doing more cooking and baking using raw ingredients rather than relying on premade food). Interest in gardening, homesteading, baking, and learning to live off the land skyrocketed during peak covid. Sure a lot of that interest has subsided, but much like how the great depression permanently changed the attitudes of people who lived through it in regards to reusing things instead of tossing and replacing, the experience of scarcity and uncertainty regarding basic goods (for most first-world folks, for the first time in their lives) made a permanent mark on at least some of the population. And this is a much more practical type of prepping, because instead of coming from a fantasy of what disaster might befall the world, it was a direct response to a disaster that actually happened.
My prepping involves knowing how to make beer/whiskey from the dirt up. I figure anything else I can trade from there. Including your women.
I feel like if we’ve got to the point where we go back to bartering, I’ve kind of lost interest in surviving because that means pretty much all of the civilization is gone.
“I need to borrow your gun and one bullet. Actually, I’ll be keeping the bullet, but you can have your gun back when I’m finished.”
Actually, I’ll be keeping the gun and giving you the bullet back… at a really high velocity.
I’m in the “be prepared” group where we usually have a couple weeks of food and water around. We also have two forms of heat for when the power goes out.
Will we survive WW3 on this? No, but it has been very helpful after big winter storms that took out the city power.
Having some supplies to use in the short term is good for everyone. Being ready to go out to help neighbors and get the community back on its feet is how we get through to the next good times.
You should always have enough supplies for a short term emergency. That’s not doomsday prepping, it’s just common sense.
I’m not a prepper IMO, but I have rooftop solar with battery backup, a few smaller portable batteries and UPSes on my critical stuff, and some oil filled radiators since my heat pump isn’t connected to the solar setup.
At any given time we generally have a month or more worth of food in the house in frozen and dry/canned goods. Also, several gallons of bottled water.
I also keep some stuff under the back bed of my car’s hatch, first aid kit and emergency blanket, and battery jumper kit as well as a battery powered tire inflator.
I live in a semi-rural area, and in an emergency, getting out and/or getting food and necessities may not be possible. And if there’s a wildfire I may need to evacuate fast, so important to have what’s needed. This sort of thing is like… If you have the means, why wouldn’t you?
I wouldn’t call that being a prepper. That’s just sensible preparation for something like a natural disaster. Preppers think they’ll survive whatever their conception of “the big one” is.
Preppers think the pencil nose accountants will all die screaming in regret while all the high school jv cheerleaders come begging them for help, in full uniform, and everyone finally recognizes how they were right all along.
I have tons of food, a generator and other backup power and a gun, and if shit really hits the fan I know I’m not living 5 minutes longer than everyone less prepared, the resources actually make me a target.
But then again, I have Pge, so it’s not doomsday prepping, it’s just ‘Wednesday, or whenever they next screw up resulting in 100s of deaths, weeks without power, and massive rate hikes resulting in huge bonuses to their upper management’.
Honestly, if the great civilization-ending disaster they think they’re prepping for happens, I hope I die in the first wave. I don’t have any Mad Max fantasies.
Mad Max fantasies will never equate to Mad Max realities, anyways.
Definitely not. And anyone who thinks that it is the reality isn’t going to be Immortan Joe, they’re going to be one of the people at the bottom of the cliffs begging for water.
Or a human-shaped piece of sex furniture rented out to the water marauders in exchange for food and supplies. I’ll take not making it through the initial disaster, please and thank you!
I’m neither American nor a native English speaker so take it with a grain of salt.
That’s where I’d put the line between a regular prepper and a doomsday prepper.
Not to forget the very elusive Sergent Prepper.
I guess in my mind, ‘prepper’ is just short for ‘doomsday prepper’ and it’s not the same thing as doing, like I said above, sensible preparation for natural disasters.
Anyone that has been through even a bad blizzard knows it’s important to have some basic supplies. Depending on where in the US you live, it would actually be considered unusual and irresponsible to not have some basic preparation for weather and related stuff. Not having a cold-weather car kit and home preparations for losing power in a blizzard in the upper Midwest, for instance, would be considered stupid.
No one thinks tornado shelters are that weird if you live in tornado alley. I’m sure hurricane prone areas probably have their own set of ready prep stuff that would seem weird in other parts of the country.
You’re not talking about doomsday preppers.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying. The stuff I mentioned is just reasonable preparation for, like… life. Sometimes stuff gets disrupted for unexpected reasons. Like toilet paper during a pandemic lol.
How about the Red Hot Chili Prepper?
Need to apply some Prepper-H after eating Chili Preppers, that’s for sure
Yeah I think Dr. Prepper can write a prescription for that
I had a few shirts made with this.
Avoid it like
the plagueany sense of personal responsibility.I get all sorts of reactions.
I was always under the impression we’d go nomadic if things got bad, traveling to where it is habitatable year round and food is more available. I’m keeping myself mentally and physically healthy enough to walk long distances while not being picky about what I eat or where I sleep. I find the whole concept of hunkering down indefinitely is itself untenable.
If the problem is going to last significantly longer than a month, then no one is really “prepared.” Those preppers then just become resource targets.
You live like a nomad hunter-gatherer if you like. Count me out.
I know a guy who owns a retired nuclear missile silo that he made into a doomsday bunker/business. The top several floors or so with the old control rooms and stuff has been converted into his bunker, but most of the main silo is flooded with water, so it’s a scuba diving attraction.
Anyway: when Covid came his bunker and years of food and fuel, so he and the wife went out there and used it for their lockdown. I’m happy for him that he got to use it.
They took out the old control rooms and completely remodeled the inside into a pretty comfy house. It’s just underground and has 3-ton blast doors.
that guys living my dream
Flooded with stagnant water? Do you want brain worms? This is how you get brain worms.
If there’s no sunlight energy providing for phytoplankton, there’s probably not much of a food chain in there to support parasites.
Else cave diving sites would be equally dangerous.
It’s basically aquifer water. When the silo was active they had to run pumps to keep it from flooding. It’s actually one of the ways silos could be identified by satellites. They’d have oversized drainage ponds in the middle of nowhere where they’d be pumping the water.
What you’re not seeing is that it’s also a dick-measuring contest. He who dies in a megastorm with the most hoarded toilet paper wins.
The toilet paper thing is fascinating to me, because everybody went to the store, saw the empty shelves, and assumed that their neighbors were freaking out and hoarding toilet paper. People actually needed more TP during lockdown, because they were doing all their pooping at home instead of at work.
Businesses have a completely different supply chain for toilet paper, and you had a deficit in one and a surplus in the other. You can’t just move product from one supply chain to the other, either.
How much shitting you are doing?
I feel like that dude on the left used all of his and at some point had to make a second trip. If he was American instead of British, I would say maybe even a third. He has that look.
The dude on the right is definitely doing it because his wife forced him to.
Text in the back says “Tyre Centre” which makes it distinctly not American… Maybe you should stop judging people, it’s not healthy
That’s why I said “instead of British.”
Sorry for hurting your feelings.
Good job editing your post after the fact, you know there’s an icon that shows that right?
No need to double-down on being an asshole either.
