I’ve personally withheld judgement until I can see some polls, probably won’t change much from the Trump advantage it’s been at for months.
Let me put things in German terms for you, this is like Alice Weidel and Olaf Scholz running against each other in a close election for Chancellor, where Weidal is the batshit crazy candidate that spews conspiracy theories and Scholz is the sane guy that nobody likes but is better than the alternative. While Weidal is doing a rally for her campaign, some neo nazi, perhaps even further right than she is, attempts to assassinate her for whatever reason. Despite Scholz having nothing to do with the incident, Weidal and the entire Afd crowd start blaming him for it because of the conspiracy theories that she, her party, and her supporters spew and believe. That’s how you get our current situation.
Scholz is the sane guy that nobody likes but is better than the alternative
The question you have to ask yourself is how a guy nobody likes keeps becoming the uncontested nominee for majority leader.
Keir Starmer, Olaf Schultz, and Emanuel Macron all have this uncanny ability to be the “pick me or your country has a little fascist accident” candidate.
Meanwhile, actual popular candidates are rendered “unelectable” by hostile media, enormous private ad campaigns, and dirty partisan tricks.
Because the a bunch of billionaires of VW, Uniper and Siemens donated $1 billion to Scholzs campaign and told him he better run.
I’m not too tuned in into European politics outside of specific areas, but my understanding is that people generally gravitate towards the boring moderate types because they tend to be the most safe and pragmatic option. The choice becomes a no brainer when the alternative is indeed fascistic. It’s kind of like how we ended up with Biden. During the Democratic primaries, guys like Bernie or Yang had a more populist appeal. However, Biden was seen as the moderate with the wide appeal because he was safe, boring, pragmatic, experienced, etc even though nobody really had him as their initial first choice. When he won the nomination and the general election came down to him and Trump, everybody flocked to Biden because Trump is batshit crazy.
People don’t gravitate to boring and “safe”, they’re pushed there. How come fascists can go as wild as they want but no one can go wild for free healthcare, free education, and free shelter? There is clearly more at play here and it’s obvious from the low approval ratings all these shitty politicians receive.
A lot of Democrats are wealthy suburban types. They want to support social freedoms, but they don’t want their taxes to go up.
also when did genocide become “boring and safe”
You are quite literally a genocide supporter. You support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. I remember you from that other post about Ukraine where you were all of over the thread simping for Putin, blaming the US for the invasion, and calling the 2014 revolution in Ukraine a US orchestrated coup. You’re in no position to call out fascists when you’re one yourself.
For anybody who’s curious, I highly recommend you read his comments on that read. This guy is nuts. Here is the link:
Where in any of that did I support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? Where did I “simp” for Putin? You saw me say that maybe the official US line isn’t the entire story and your brain short-circuited to fill in all these bullshit and gross accusations you’re making of me.
I also recommend others read my comments and I mean actually read them, unlike SleezyDizasta over here, because you’ll find that SleezyDizasta has been making things up about me. As for the 2014 coup in Ukraine, it sure is interesting that John McCain was addressing protestors at the time. Why would such a prominent politician be so invested in another country’s opposition to their government? You tell me.
Man this is RICH coming from you who has spouted Israeli ethnonationalist & Palestinian-genocide-denying rhetoric on this site. I was there for multiple instances of it. I’m not normally so direct with my comments about users I’m familar with (it can get real toxic real quick), and I think NATO is necessary and all and I’m against the Russian occupation of Ukraine, but your comment attacking hark is so laughably hypocritical that I can’t help it.
Please do some self-reflection before attacking and trying to discredit a user claiming they’re a “genocide supporter” based on their opinion of Ukraine, when you’ve been much more verifiably pro-genocide. Unless you’ve shifted your opinion since the last time I’ve seen such comments, those seem far more genocide-friendly considering Palestinian casualties (mostly civilian) are multiple times the number of Israeli casualties (mostly soldiers), compared to the war in Ukraine where the Russians have actually taken signficiantly more casualties than Ukrainians and don’t primarily target civilians (compared to Israel which primarily targets civilians to terrorize the population). It’s not a stretch to say that Putin wants to Russify Ukraine further and destroy their culture, and that Russia has terrorized Ukrainians a lot, but to act as if a Ukrainian genocide is happening (to then use that to claim attacks on the Ukrainian government are pro-genocide) is disingenuous.
everybody flocked to Biden because Trump is batshit crazy.
this is kind of an overstatement though, right?
fascism is pretty popular rn.
It’s really not. Let’s go through some basic stats:
- There are 330 million Americans
- There are 258 million adults
- There are 161 million registered voters
- Of those, less than 1/2 vote in midterms and less than 2/3 vote in presidential elections
- Of those, only around half vote Republican and that includes independents
If we include the Republican leaning independents, that number comes out to around 40 million to 50 million people depending on the election cycle. That’s 12-15% of all Americans, 15-19% of all adults, 24-31% of registered voters, and around 50% of active voters. Keep in mind, this includes independents, if we only includes partisan identified Republicans, all these percentages would be lower. Keep in mind, this includes the very small minority of reasonable Republicans like Adam Kinzinger or Mitt Romney.
The reality is that the Trump and his brand of fascism is pretty unpopular. People mistakenly think that the country is split 50/50, but that’s not true. While most people dislike both Trump and Biden, the amount of people who actively like either is very small. But that’s how far right and far left movements gain power, not through popularity but through technicalities, violence, and the zealously of a propaganda fueled base of supporters. This is why it is so important to try and get people who are usually disconnected with politics to tune in and vote against these extremists.
Why is this down voted so heavily? These seems pretty correct to me. People on here dont realize how many people are disconnected from it all.
if 40 to 50 million people watched some series you can say its pretty popular. its more than enough to build fascism, thats for sure.
Yeah but thats quite different from bread and butter. That 40 to 50 million is like 1/14th of the country. Doesn’t seem like much in that context. Definitely not a majority.
Probably the mild centrist bent to the comment I’d imagine, and also the fact that it’s in response to a comment saying fascism is pretty popular, saying that it’s not. People like their persecution complexes.
I find it odd that the three candidates you mentioned were all elected. What’s your point again?
Even though I knew the context, I’m kinda scared that might happen here too (we don’t have that much guns here, but people have ways…). Just remember what happened to Shinzo Abe in Japan, where gun laws are very strict and the shooter just went and built a blunderbuss.
Whatever the reasons of that certain shooter, it’s plausible that some ultra-right nutjob would want to kill Weidel because of her being “not extreme enough” or her homosexuality (that’s a fact, btw.) and accidentially make her a martyr.
Germany and France in particular are worrying cases when it comes to Europe because the have a sizable far left and far right that can be unhinged at times. What’s worse is that there a good amount of whackos that are even further left than the fringe far left Marxist parties and the fringe neo Nazi parties.
In the case of Germany, it’s pretty plausible that some infinitely far right neo Nazi would try assassinate her because she’s a lesbian or some infinitely far left Marxist would try the same because she’s the leader of the Afd or perhaps some crazy jihadist would try to assassinate her because she’s both a woman and a lesbian.
I hope Europe in general tries to keep the lunatics out of power and continue to have pragmatic people rule. I don’t want Europe to go through what we’re going through with the Republicans right now. The end result would be something like Hungary with Orban, and nobody wants that.
some infinitely far left Marxist
Which German Marxist is enjoying the kind of support matched by the AfD?
At the moment? None, but East Germany used to be a part of the eastern bloc, and there’s still an uncomfortable amount of far left whackos that want that era back. They’re not as popular as Afd right now because the big issue in the country at the moment is immigration, and Afd’s platform is more much more hardline on that which is more appealing to the whackos than what the far left is offering.
East Germany used to be a part of the eastern bloc, and there’s still an uncomfortable amount of far left whackos that want that era back
East Germany is the base of the AfD, precisely because post-unification Germany did such a good job of blaming the far-left for the country’s economic problems. Past that, I’m not even sure what constitutes “uncomfortable amounts”, as it seems any number higher than zero gets blamed every time Olaf’s (Not Particularly) Green Party tumbles in the polls.
Are you thinking of the Antideutsche movement? Because that camp has support numbers in the high hundreds on a good day. AfD will have more seats in Parliament than Antideutsche can turn out to a street protest by the next election cycle.
No, I’m talking about the actual far left. The Afd has more momentum atm, but there has always been presence of both the far right and far left in East Germany. Here’s some bits of an interesting article from September 2023 by Bloomberg that demonstrates what I’m talking about:
A fifth of German voters would consider backing a new party that may be established by a far-left politician who has opposed weapons deliveries to Ukraine, according to a poll published Monday.
Sahra Wagenknecht of the Left party — which traces its roots to East Germany’s communist party — has said she will make a decision on whether to set up a breakaway group by the end of this year.
Wagenknecht’s move is potentially significant, since she could potentially woo voters away from the far-right Alternative for Germany, which is leading in the polls in the three eastern German regions due to hold elections next fall.
Among AfD voters, 29% said they could contemplate backing Wagenknecht, compared with 55% of Left voters, according to the Sept. 15-20 YouGov poll of 2,134 people. At 29%, potential support for Wagenknecht is higher in eastern Germany than in the west, where it’s at 19%, the poll showed.
That’s quite a bit of overlap. The far left isn’t exactly dead in East Germany as you seem to describe it, and neither is the far right. They work in tandum alongside jihadists to keep normal Germans up at night. That’s why Germans constantly protest extremism and vote in guys like Scholz.
Americans pretending America was ever a democracy. Same as always.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1354571X.2021.1950340
ABSTRACT
Between 4 November 1925 and 31 October 1926, Tito Zaniboni, Violet Gibson, Gino Lucetti, and Anteo Zamboni all tried and failed to kill Benito Mussolini. The significance of these attempts on Mussolini’s life and their relationship to the establishment of Fascism has gone overlooked as much scholarship focuses almost exclusively on the consequences of socialist deputy Giacomo Matteotti’s murder in June 1924. In this article, I analyse the impact that these assassination attempts had on Mussolini’s construction of the Fascist state. The article asks two main questions: What role did these assassins, and the state of emergency that their acts generated, play in the establishment of Fascist control? And how did they contribute to Mussolini’s cult status and his consecration as a ‘man of providence’? I argue that the failed assassination attempts were instrumental in allowing the Fascist regime to create a state of emergency and to capitalize on a fabricated demand for crisis management. These attempts fundamentally structured the conditions for the regime’s consolidation of power, including a vast expansion of laws that dismantled the liberal state and established the Fascist dictatorship.
He got the best PR of his life, and the Democrats have come out supporting him and denouncing the violence. Meanwhile, the Democrats have also been saying that Trump will be a day-1 dictator and implement Project 2025.
The fact that the DNC can (correctly) show that Trump is dangerous, and yet insists that he must be defeated in an election, makes it look like the DNC doesn’t actually care either way. This is in combination with Biden’s crumbling support due to continued genocide and deteriorating mental capacities, or percieved deterioration.
Meanwhile, in the eyes of Trump supporters, someone just tried to take out their messiah and he came out scarred but undeterred.
The DNC voterbase is only ever becoming increasingly disengaged while the GOP voterbase is only becoming increasingly engaged. This will likely end up, if trends continue, like 2016. Biden will win the popular vote and lose the electoral college.
The DNC absolutely cannot condone assassination attempts, and it’s absurd to think otherwise. The second they actually claim that it’s a shame the gunman missed, it would be open season on every politician in office. The GOP would see a DNC acceptance of violence as a declaration of war, every last one of them would jump on the conspiracy that the Biden administration must have hired a truly inept gunman to make the hit, and before you can say “The GOP already condones violence” you’d have a dozen more assassination attempts on as many targets.
Republicans WANT a reason to pull the trigger. They WANT excuses to start taking shots at people they don’t like. The last godamn thing you want to do is give them a reason to justify it. So no, the DNC denouncing political violence doesn’t make them look like they don’t care, it makes them look like they’re the only ones fit to actually govern a nation.
You’re not wrong, but I have a hard time believing that someone capable of this sort of nuanced perspective wouldn’t already have seen enough evidence long ago for why a TicTac is better suited for POTUS than Trump.
Try to remember that the DNC is just a different brand of capitalism. So, sure, the posturing is expected and a requirement to keep DNC Party Voters in line. But I don’t think the disenfranchised Bernie Bros and independent never trumpers really give a shit which skin suit of propriety the DNC is tucking for at any particular time. They can fuck themselves less than Trump, but not by much.
There is a huge difference between condoning an assassination attempt, and forcefully conveying the message that Trump is just one more a victim of his own violent rhetoric.
The DNC absolutely cannot condone assassination attempts, and it’s absurd to think otherwise. The second they actually claim that it’s a shame the gunman missed, it would be open season on every politician in office.
Yes, the DNC will always push for civility over all else because it legitimizes their control as well. It does call into question the danger they percieve Trump to present, however. If Hitler had been assassinated and the SPD said it was a shame, then they would equally be ridiculed.
The GOP would see a DNC acceptance of violence as a declaration of war, every last one of them would jump on the conspiracy that the Biden administration must have hired a truly inept gunman to make the hit, and before you can say “The GOP already condones violence” you’d have a dozen more assassination attempts on as many targets.
Sure, yes.
Republicans WANT a reason to pull the trigger. They WANT excuses to start taking shots at people they don’t like. The last godamn thing you want to do is give them a reason to justify it. So no, the DNC denouncing political violence doesn’t make them look like they don’t care, it makes them look like they’re the only ones fit to actually govern a nation.
They already do. Putting kid gloves on against an adversary that is already using political violence means they don’t take politics seriously.
Using political violence to defeat the politically violent is an absolute last resort. It forever changes the norms of the country and significantly weakens the democracy. It proves the violent correct in a sense, that the peaceful system is inadequate and violent retribution is how you should achieve your goals.
The only way to try and save face is if the people who violently overthrow the fascists say in turn “arrest me for what I’ve done”. Because this isn’t just about defeating the fascists – we also need to preserve our peaceful democracy.
Using political violence to defeat the politically violent is an absolute last resort. It forever changes the norms of the country and significantly weakens the democracy. It proves the violent correct in a sense, that the peaceful system is inadequate and violent retribution is how you should achieve your goals.
Political violence is a tool, and a fact of reality. Every day, the state commits violence. 90 Palestinians were murdered in a failed attempt to kill a Hamas leader the same day Trump’s attempted assassination happened. Only one event was front page news. We also don’t have a strong democracy to begin with, both major parties represent their donors, not the people.
The only way to try and save face is if the people who violently overthrow the fascists say in turn “arrest me for what I’ve done”. Because this isn’t just about defeating the fascists – we also need to preserve our peaceful democracy.
I laughed. The people who violently overthrew fascists should be celebrated, civility politics is brainrot. If you’re saying that the French Resistance during WWII should have been arrested after the war, or that you would arrest people if they succeeded in assassinating Hitler, you make yourself an unintentional ally to fascists and easy prey for them.
If Hitler had been assassinated and the SPD said it was a shame, then they would equally be ridiculed.
Why should they be ridiculed? It’s absolutely consistent to say assassination isn’t acceptable in a free society while at the same time saying fascism isn’t acceptable in a free society. There’s no logical conflict there.
I am personally completely against Trump and have been since he declared interest in running. I have also never once thought he should be killed, and I feel extremely sad that someone thought trying to assassinate him was in some way a good thing to do. In a Democracy, we must rely on educating the populace to eliminate evil, not on lone-gunmen doing what they think is best, because that’s how extremist factions operate.
I used to consider myself a Republican and left once I realized they’re completely lying about their “small government” nonsense. I have never registered as Democrat, though I did vote for Biden last election because of the outside chance that maybe Trump would lose our small state (very red state, but Trump did extremely poorly in 2016). I really dislike Biden as well, but he ticked two boxes for me:
- [x] promised to leave Afghanistan
- [x] not Trump
I strongy dislike the options in 2016, 2020, and now 2024, but I would never agree that either major candidate should be assaulted, much less assassinated… Political violence is not welcome in a free society.
Why should they be ridiculed? It’s absolutely consistent to say assassination isn’t acceptable in a free society while at the same time saying fascism isn’t acceptable in a free society. There’s no logical conflict there
Fascism doesn’t care about electoralism. Beating fascists electorally does not mean they won’t take power, nor does it mean they will go away.
I am personally completely against Trump and have been since he declared interest in running. I have also never once thought he should be killed, and I feel extremely sad that someone thought trying to assassinate him was in some way a good thing to do. In a Democracy, we must rely on educating the populace to eliminate evil, not on lone-gunmen doing what they think is best, because that’s how extremist factions operate.
This is vibes-based. Fascism does not appear because of a lack of education. Fascism is a response. Fascism appears in dying Capitalism, it’s a violent form of class collaborationism. You cannot beat fascism in a “fair fight.” This is an ahistorical, and complacent world view.
I used to consider myself a Republican and left once I realized they’re completely lying about their “small government” nonsense. I have never registered as Democrat, though I did vote for Biden last election because of the outside chance that maybe Trump would lose our small state (very red state, but Trump did extremely poorly in 2016). I really dislike Biden as well, but he ticked two boxes for me:
- [x] promised to leave Afghanistan
- [x] not Trump
Good for you. Moving on from the Republican party is one layer of propaganda leaving you. You have many, many layers of propaganda on you, as do I! You and I constently shed them by talking to others, reading political and economic theory, simple conclusions on our own, and so forth. It’s a long journey.
I strongy dislike the options in 2016, 2020, and now 2024, but I would never agree that either major candidate should be assaulted, much less assassinated… Political violence is not welcome in a free society.
It doesn’t matter what we consider to have a place in a free society. We don’t live in a free society, nor do fascists care what constitutes a free society.
I think reading leftist theory would help you shape your world view a lot.
You cannot beat fascism in a “fair fight.”
You absolutely can, but it generally needs to be done by the major political parties. See How Democracies Die for a discussion on attempted (and successful) fascist movements and what was or should have been done to stop it. But you need the parties to be motivated to root it out (i.e. control messaging and whatnot), and the GOP did a piss-poor job of it with the #nevertrump campaign…
You and I constently shed them by talking to others, reading political and economic theory, simple conclusions on our own, and so forth. It’s a long journey.
I completely agree. However, propaganda isn’t unique to the right, there’s a ton on the left as well, especially here on lemmy. It’s easy to overcorrect, especially in this era where truth takes a backseat to what “sounds” right.
I think reading leftist theory would help you shape your world view a lot.
I’ve read enough to know that it’s also full of propaganda. But there are nuggets of interesting ideas.
That said, I do lean left on a number of issues, and I do try to stay abreast of good ideas regardless of source. I consider myself libertarian, with a generally georgist view of property and a preference for a guaranteed minimum standard of living (UBI/NIT) when it comes to welfare. I disagree strongly with Marxism and most forms of socialism, except the completely voluntary systems like worker cooperatives and non-government backed unions.
You absolutely can, but it generally needs to be done by the major political parties. See How Democracies Die for a discussion on attempted (and successful) fascist movements and what was or should have been done to stop it. But you need the parties to be motivated to root it out (i.e. control messaging and whatnot), and the GOP did a piss-poor job of it with the #nevertrump campaign…
The DNC is not motivated to root out fascism, they are letting it happen. America is a dying Empire, fascism is going to be an ongoing risk until it either collapses or Leftists take power.
I completely agree. However, propaganda isn’t unique to the right, there’s a ton on the left as well, especially here on lemmy. It’s easy to overcorrect, especially in this era where truth takes a backseat to what “sounds” right.
Sure, there is propaganda on the left as well. Working through what’s correct and what isn’t is an ongoing task. That being said, leftists are correct.
I’ve read enough to know that it’s also full of propaganda. But there are nuggets of interesting ideas.
Any examples? I am not trying to make this a book-measuring contest, I believe Leftism to be correct and necessary, full-stop.
That said, I do lean left on a number of issues, and I do try to stay abreast of good ideas regardless of source. I consider myself libertarian, with a generally georgist view of property and a preference for a guaranteed minimum standard of living (UBI/NIT) when it comes to welfare. I disagree strongly with Marxism and most forms of socialism, except the completely voluntary systems like worker cooperatives and non-government backed unions.
Oh, that’s quite unfortunate. Georgism would just delay collapse, it wouldn’t fix the structural issues that necessitate Capitalism’s downfall. Additionally, the idea that Capitalism can in any way be more voluntary than stock-standard Socialism is false, as Capitalism is only voluntary for Capitalists.
What specifically do you disagree with Marxists about, and why?
The DNC is not motivated to root out fascism, they are letting it happen
It’s not on the DNC to regulate the GOP, it’s on the GOP to regulate the GOP. Basically, the GOP should have just refused to nominate Trump if they felt he was a serious threat to democracy (let him run as an independent).
Leftists take power
That’s just going to result it the same problem, just with a very different smell. Nobody should “take power,” a peaceful transfer of power between left and right (or a variety of other parties in parliamentary systems) is a sign of a healthy democracy. That’s what I want, and every effort I put in will be to increase the smooth transition of power, not try to centralize power in my preferred side.
What specifically do you disagree with Marxists about, and why?
Oh, a number of things. I completely reject the LTV, which is central to Marxist thought, for example, and the arguments there are numerous and well-documented so I’ll leave that to the extant literature. I also don’t believe a socialist state can actually devolve into a stateless society, those in power will cling to it and refuse to tear down the system that props them up (that’s like expecting Trump to actually “drain the swamp” when he’s a crocodile). I don’t think anarchism can actually work because people are tribal and any anarchist system would devolve into some form of feudalism. But I’d like to get closer to anarchism rather than further away, and a dictatorship of the proletariat scares me.
So I believe there will always need to be a state (some group w/ a monopoly on force), but that power needs to be carefully limited to prevent bad actors. I think most western systems are pretty good, but power has gotten a bit too centralized. Talking about the US specifically, the executive and judicial branches have gotten too powerful, and the legislative branch has gotten too weak. My priority would be to dramatically change how the legislature operates to strengthen it at the expense of the other two branches. In short, I believe in a gradualist approach, not a revolutionary one, where there’s a concerted push to tear down the bits that are most repressive.
Any examples?
Here’s an article about media bias against conservatives. I will say it’s a lot harder to see if you agree with the conclusions.
The right does this nonsense a lot too, the left is just a bit more subtle, and generally speaking has the tech sector on its side. That’s not to say the right is any better, in fact the right generally overreacts, which hurts their credibility even more and gives more credibility to the media and tech sectors. Since young people disproportionately use tech as a demographic, it’s uniquely effective at shaping political opinions of the rising generations. Whether this is good or bad depends on your political aims, but I think it’s a clear example of propaganda.
Capitalism is only voluntary for Capitalists
Couldn’t you say that about socialism as well?
The thing is, socialism can exist within capitalism (e.g. worker coops and unions), but capitalism cannot really exist within socialism because of the difference in how property works.
I’m sorry the rest of the world.
We don’t know yet why the shooter tried to kill Trump.
We do know how the Republicans will spin this.
Trump can’t be intimidated.
Trump is a soldier and a warrior and a survivor.
They tried to silence him.
Trump’s opponents are desperate and violent.
Guns aren’t that dangerous.
And more bullshit like that.
This assassination attempt will energize GOP voters and blunt Democratic attacks. It makes it easier for Trump to promote himself and criticize Biden, while Biden has to defend himself without endorsing a madman, and cannot attack Trump without starting with, “I do not condone violence, but…”
You know those will be the talking points because each of them is demonstrably false.
If they had to be honest, they’d never win another election.
We do know how the Republicans will spin this.
Indeed we do. In fact, there’s already merch.
Please tell me this is fake. Pretty please
I really wish it was 😮💨
You forgot what they’re already saying; God sent his angels to move the bullet.
Don’t want to make any Americans feel bad, but that’s where your country is at right now. No one’s going to think less of you if you’d like to come join us elsewhere.
My favorite so far was my friend calling the shooter a storm trooper. Might as well laugh when you have no control anyways eh? 😆
I’m getting closer every fucking day, proportional to how increasingly little I feel like I belong here.
Well, except for your country’s immigration office, who would deny most average Americans the ability to join you.
Yeah, for all the shit people give US immigration laws. They’re some of the lowest requirements of any modern country.
Most everywhere you need a college degree in a sought after field.
That right there is the part that burns my britches every time a European gives us shit - we take in pretty much anyone, but god forbid any of us want to emigrate to your country!
Not to mention, the vast majority of Americans can’t even dream of having enough money to afford the move to begin with. The American dream is reasonable rent and affordable debt repayments now.
This is where I am at… Looks like around $20k to move elsewhere in the world, and I’ve got $0 atm.
Cut out the avocado toast and Starbucks! /s
Personally, I’m just using this as another point to bring up whenever I start talking to my religious family about how he’s the antichrist.
I don’t believe in such things, but it’s a little funny to me just how many parallels can be drawn from “the biclical things we know about the antichrist” to trump, his businesses, and history.
This is just another log on the bonfire. “survived assassination attempt”
It really takes a lot of wind off their sails, because now they have to try and justify their religious views while also justifying why their religious views are wrong.
Or they just go full cognitive dissonance and hold many simultaneously conflicting beliefs.
Or they just go full cognitive dissonance and hold many simultaneously conflicting beliefs.
It’s this one. Always. They cannot be reasoned with in my first hand experience.
God protected him?
Know who else claimed that? Hitler. And most who asserted the divine right of kings.
But we all know God didn’t step in to prevent the deaths of Jews, mentally disabled (and otherwise institutionalized), political opponents, former political party members who threatened power, LGBTQ+, Rowandans, Armenians, Palestinians, Uyghurs, etc.
That’s why I say if there is super natural intervention, it ain’t God. It’s the devil himself.
Aside from the NBN I’d love to live in OZ. Wanna get married to make immigration easier?
I don’t think you’re really making any Americans feel bad, we’re pretty good at doing that all by ourselves. Also I’m sure plenty of people would like to leave, they just can’t for a variety of reasons. Money and very strict immigration rules (of other countries) being the top two but they’ve already been mentioned. It’s also very difficult to leave your family and move somewhere where you know virtually no one for a lot of people, even if they meet the previous requirements.
No one’s going to think less of you if you’d like to come join us elsewhere.
Appreciate the offer, but I’d think less of me. Call it silly or sentimental, but I’ve called this damaged country my home all my life. Not just where I live, my home, my nation, my country and countrymen. I love it still, as broken and dysfunctional as it is, and I have to love it with my heart, not just my mouth. I have to fight for it, in the few ways that I can.
For people who live here, who are citizens but don’t think of this as their nation, who don’t believe in nations, or who have come to despise this nation? I think no less of them for leaving. I don’t blame them in the least. But it’s not me.
You don’t understand how surviving assassination attempts energizes your voter base? I feel like there’s a lot of history here you could pull from.
If it’s a “voter base”, wouldn’t they already have voted for him?
Not all the voter base show up to every election, and in US politics traditionally the more people who vote the better Democrats do. Now they have to also overcome a more energized Trump base which means less people on the right suffering from election fatigue from our years long election cycles. A nice big boos of martyrdom with a few months left can go a long way.
Can you name a single elected European leader that people tried to assassinate?
Olof Palme, tried and succeeded… This has JFK-level conspiracy theories flourishing in Sweden
Hitler.
It feels like the only parallel left is that soon we’re going to find out Trump University was created because no other school would let him into their art program
He was not elected head of state.
I must have missed the ‘elected’ first time I read it, lol
Homie really forgot about Hitler . . .
Homie knows his history, actually.
How many burgers after yours?
Homie doesn’t get that the distinction is meaningless, especially when most European countries don’t elect their heads of government to begin with, and America’s elections are pretty much built to favor the right, because they’re never popular enough to win the popular vote
My point here is that the USA is basically a warlord state dressed up in “first-world” clothes. You all seem to take assassinations in stride while being blissfully unaware of how anomalous this is compared to other countries.
Jo Cox? Unless by “leader”, you specifically mean “head of state”.
Forget about Mussolini too or . . . ?
He was elected but then abolished elections, so I’m not sure that really counts — the only way to “vote him out” was to kill him. You’re technically right, though.
And of course miss Maggy Thatcher, longest serving in her position too.
Totally forgot about that one, great counterexample!
Geez, why do the worst people survive assassination
Pim Fortuyn ( not an elected leader at that point, but his party won the election in a landslide afterward) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn
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Europeans need to understand that winning elections in the US really just means convincing 10,000-20,000 people in about 5 states who to vote for a couple days before the election.
If this news plants a small seed of sympathy for Trump in the minds of those undecided voters it will swing the election.
Our democracy is really pretty terribly implemented.
Or if.more media attention and coverage of trump pushes a few people to vote rather than stay home he loses.
Ranked. Choice. Voting.
We needs it.
There’s tons of things we could do to improve it. But it will take a huge amount of political will that Americans just don’t have.
Yeah. My option is a baindaid but helps clear the murkiness out a bit. Gotta start somewhere as it’ll take a decade or so to get us back to being anything resembling a great nation. Right now we are a fear mongering hegemony war profiteering oligarchy.
Vote of no confidence. If both fish suck throw em back and find some new ones.
That hasn’t worked with the First Past the Post voting system.
The ability of the populous to reject what is offered is necessary to maintain a balanced system. I’m not exactly certain what you are expressing there but I stand by this belief.
Literally does nothing in the US system and is the fastest way for the fascist party to complete their takeover.
Anyone advocating for this I’m assuming is either a troll or a paid shill.
Agree to disagree. Even a two party system could see improvement when there is a possibility of failure behind falling in line with ‘least bad choice.’
It’s not a silver bullet - to be sure. but we’re talking about a patient on life support with multiple systems failing. There is no simple fix. We need to deal with each rot and disease locally as aggressively as possible… and be willing to excise anything that is a lost cause. This is triage.
Not once has it worked in modern history.
Care to cite some sources?
To my eye the easiest way to exploit a two party system is to provide both candidates. The act of tossing them aside can give teeth to the vote and demand better quality. I fail to see any obvious drawbacks to this.
If implemented correctly it would not impact good elections and would drastically affect bad ones. Is that not ideal?
Modern history being anything that has happened in the lives of even the oldest person alive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States
https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/
Where are the third party presidents?
Everyone needs to hear this. But most people don’t even know about it.
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Got my primary pamphlet recently, I was so disappointed to see the non-partisan rcv supportive candidate wasn’t running this year. They nearly won last election, too 😭
And democrats keep killing grass roots implementation of state wide implementation
Yes OK but the part we don’t understand is how getting shot at is raising sympathy levels. The natural reaction would be even less get the person involved in politics because he attracts or directly causes extremism, chaos, and violence.
You want a steady hand, not a drama queen as your leader, no?
These are people who are making a decision about something very important with less than 72 hours to go. Do not assume they are acting rationally.
You really can’t understand how people are “being killed for being right”? Like if someone said the monarchy in Europe is bad and kings shouldn’t exist, and then the king does have them killed, that wouldn’t raise sympathy for the cause of the guy being killed, that kings shouldn’t exist?
This is exactly how resistance spreads. People got killed for their beliefs. Other people saw that and thought “if they’re getting killed they are a threat to those in power, and thus likely right”. You don’t think “oh well this guy got killed for his beliefs, that must mean that his opinions are wrong”
Obviously this is not what’s really happening with Trump, but it’s going to be spun like that by his propaganda team, and people are going to believe it.
It’s not really a democracy. Public opinion has absolutely no impact on whether something is made law or changed. The overwhelming majority of Americans support legalizing weed and medicare for all but neither goes anywhere.
The US is an oligarchy that pretends to be a democracy to get people fighting culture wars instead of class wars.
Never seen truer words on the internet.
It absolutely is a democracy, just an extremely flawed democracy. If democracy were a scale from direct democracy to North Korea, then the USA would sit somewhere in the top third of countries.
Duopoly. Where both big businesses collude to maintain the market shares between them. DNC & RNC.
Right, it’s a Republic with piss poor representation by rich white guys who answer to the billionaire class.
The overwhelming majority of Americans support legalizing weed and medicare for all but neither goes anywhere.
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Legalizing weed has made massive strides in the past decade, after some 50 years of drug war.
The only reason the first one is true because it’s something the states can actually do. Not sure if any states have been trying to make a healthcare plan but I imagine that’s a lot harder to do then just saying weed is legal now. Basically right now stuff only gets done at a state level in America anymore with how divided and unproductive Congress is.
Massachusetts has had a very effective single payer healthcare system for decades.
MA is basically the equivalent of a northern European country hiding in the US. Honestly, it’d pretty much be an oasis, save for the fact nobody can actually afford to live there.
“A majority of Americans continue to say the federal government has a responsibility to make sure all Americans have health care coverage.”
Your own source says so
But let’s add more:
https://www.citizen.org/article/public-support-for-medicare-for-all/
Recent polls indicate that six in ten Americans support Medicare-for-All. In addition, more than 60 percent believe that government is responsible for ensuring health coverage for all Americans. And nearly 70 percent of all voters, including battleground voters, identify health care as an important issue in upcoming elections.
I think they were responding to the “neither goes anywhere” part, not the support part
Federally, neither has gone anywhere though.
Hawaii has actually succeeded on both fronts. Also, almost no guns.
Good on Hawaii! Not sarcastic or bitter, legit, good for them. The rest of the states would do well to follow Hawaii’s example.
Unfortunately, I suspect that’s not going to be overnight.
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Excuse me, that’s a representative oligarchy
if its not from the bribery region of france then its just sparkling corruption
slowclap.gif
Terribly implemented, terribly run, terribly staffed, terrible users…
USA! USA! USA! 🦅🍔🇺🇸
Oh here we go…
FUUHCKKK YEAH!!!
[shoots up at the sky repeatedly with tactical bear arms]
“Bleach blonde, bad built butch body” I think sums up my country as well as any description.
These people never really think about politics and vote because it’s good.
Yeah. I’m really jealous of them. I can’t imagine how nice it must be not to care about this shit.
Trump’s the literal Messiah now (I’m conservative eyes). A lot of moderates are going pull hard towards trump.
Who where?
Moderates everywhere. But most importantly swing states
Mess for damn sure
You could look at it that way, or…
Revelation 13:3
One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.
It’s… horrifying how many signs of Revelation are valid to Donald Trump…
“The rivers will be joined to the lake!” - Mar-A-Lago literally meaning “River to Lake”
Isn’t it sea to lake?
No, it means “Sea to lake”
The sentences of the bible are written in a certain context. If you remove it from this context and try really hard to make connections, you can loosen it’s definition enough and distort it’s meaning enough to fit anything you want
That’s because the book of Revelations is really just a big collection of vague scary sounding things. You can pull whatever interpretation you want out of it.
So trump is the beast the whole world is following. Got it. I’m sure to his followers he’s the literal Messiah
IMO this Interpretation is straight up incorrect
This is a symptom of “If you want it hard enough, you can find anything where there is nothing”
but the fatal wound had been healed.
Hello!? There was no fatal wound. And it was not healed. The text doesn’t fit.
Supposedly god put those words in the mind of a Christian man 2000 years ago. He wrote it down. Several other people copied the text by hand. The original works were lost. When the bible was translated to english it was based on the copied content from other translations in German, latin, and Hebrew. No translation was made from the original language since there’s no source available.
Why is god so fuckeng sloppy with the text that literally represents his existence and the only path of salvation of all human souls?? (people who he supposedly love)
What?! Trump doesn’t have multiple heads?!?
Moderates? I’m sure everyone has already made up their minds years ago.
Yeah I’m not sure how any moderate could be swayed to such an extremist candidate. Then you consider that he’s a felon? I’m not sure what getting clipped in the ear would do to sway a moderate vote.
Maybe if we hadn’t seen what an absolute dead fish he was as a president, only serving to pack the Scotus and put his kids into positions of power. But we’ve seen it, I just don’t get who would be swayed who wasn’t already swayed.
Meh I’m not sure who I’ll vote for, I have to look into the libertarian candidate more
There’s no such thing as a moderate.
You’re mistaken. Just because your group of friends doesn’t contain any doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Whichever person you’re thinking of is not a moderate. They are a fascist who does not want to admit they are a fascist.
If they were not a fascist, they would be doing their damnedest to prevent fascism, like every sane adult.
Yep, this comment cements it.
Only true from the viewpoint that Trump = Fascim. Many people are not seeing that argument.
Basically, the idea is that people who survive assassinations are “sympathetic” and “tough”, so… now he’s going to win
In America, getting shot gives one “street cred”, which is invaluable when winning over the confidence of young voters.
I choose to believe this 😄
How much is one street cred in channel points?
Finally, all those 18 yr olds in American high schools can say “Hey he got shot at just like me!”
Lol j/k they didn’t survive
It’s your basic herd mentality. A lot of Republicans were actually starting to turn away from Trump, but now that someone’s attempted to assassinate him in their minds it means he was somehow “right” all along. Keep watching, regardless of who the shooter was or what his motivations may turn out to have been, the hard right will continue to frame it as a “liberal conspiracy” and use this as some kind of warped twisted justification to make Trump into a new dictator for life.
There’s no logical reason for it. Trying to find one will just make your head hurt. The only real reason is that someone tried to hurt “their team” and now they will unite to own the libs even if it destroys the whole country
It will also give trump license to have private security decked out in combat gear at his side 24x7. It obviously gives off wannabe dictator vibes, but now it’s “justified”.
That is assuming he will ever make another public appearance after this… I’d say there’s a good chance the rest of his appearances are via heavily scripted professionally edited videos
Trump’s opposition pretty much is capitulating and suspending their campaign in the name of supporting ‘Unity’ …which means not fighting Trump. Or Biden, for that matter.
All you need to know is its a rigged game
Empty meaningless statement that allows you to feel like you’re intelligent and you know something with actually thinking or putting any effort in.
Let’s say the game is completely rigged. Is it then meaningless to point it out?
Their statement was empty and I pointed that out. I said nothing about anything being pointless, or even that they were wrong.
“yeah, the game may be rigged, but the REAL crime is pointing out that its rigged!”
Do you think lying about what I said proves something? I don’t get it.
Empty meaningless question that allows you to feel like you’re intelligent and you know something with actually thinking or putting any effort in.
You think pointing out that you lied, in an attempt to undermine my point, is meaningless? Lol dig up, my friend
Aye, rigged by republican-gerrymandered district maps.
I fuckin hate to say it because it goes against my “I don’t wanna be that guy on the Internet”… but holy shit the Dems are doing everything they can to lose as well.
I have never in my life seen a group of theoretically smart people snatching loss after loss from the jaws of victory.
It is super hard to not think they’re all playing a game with us.
If by some miracle they win it will only be, because people chose idiots over despots.
I still think if they got 80% of the vote they’d find a way to lose.
Moderates made a bet for their team to win. But not cover the spread.
If they do too well. It translates to down ballot wins and they’d have the political power to do what voters want. Which is often the opposite of what their donors want.
And they’d rather let Republicans win than piss off their shared donors.
The only way the people running the DNC lose power. Is if a progressive wins and appoints new people to the DNC.
It all makes perfect sense when you think like a power hungry capitalist who would do fine under a Republican president. The only true threat to them is “the left” because that’s what Dem voters want
And the stupid electoral college, and the freeze on House seats. Well, those two kind of go hand-in-hand.
