Trump in 2016:
She shouldn’t be allowed to run.
If she were to win this election, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis.
In that situation we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial.
It would grind the government to a halt.
Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/donald-trump-trial-guilty-hillary-clinton-b2556563.html
Jesus fuck, stop playing this “gotcha!” game. This is dumb. He doesn’t give a shit about consistency. He’ll straight up lie about something he said yesterday. Who are you convincing with this?
First of all, there are people who think it is funny, like me.
Additionally, sometimes people just aren’t aware of stuff and people draw different lines. Apparently trump support has decreased since the verdict of his 34 felonies. That wasn’t my line for sure; the racism and history of racism was; but apparently some people didn’t care about the racism, transphobia, sexism, the sexualizing of his daughter, the cheating on his wife, the lies, … But about the felonies. So instead of telling people to not speak out about it, don’t engage.
me. i’m convinced. i was gonna vote for trump first, but this has persuaded me to vote for biden
s
The Right Wingers play “Gotcha!”, playing it right back does nothing.
Trump criticizes Trump yet again.
Republicans always criticize themselves heavily. Just don’t do anything about it though.
Part of being a republican is being a hypocrite.
Republicans mostly do the criticizing through projection.
That brings back memories! Looks like that sub shut down in Nov. 2022.
Guess the novelty kinda wore off after the hundred-millionth time.
This won’t do anything. His base doesn’t care. They treat this like a sports team. He’s still “their” guy. The Cleveland Browns have a rapist as their quarterback. Despite everyone in Cleveland not being a fan of his extraciricular activities, I have seen no boycotts. I’ve seen no reduction in Browns gear here in Cleveland. I’ve seen no reason to believe that we’ve shown our front office that we won’t stand for a rapist on the team.
It’s the same with trump/republicans. They’ve had several, countless even, oppertunities to exit the highway down the road that is trump. The fact that he emerged in 2016 as the republican nominee at all still feels like it was decided by a round of plinko.
They should have looked at him from before 2016 and said no. They could have exited anytime between 2017-2021. They could have exited over J6. They could have exited in the aftermath of J6.
They stayed on the highway that whole time. They aren’t getting off. They’re going to ride that highway until they drive off a cliff at the end.
And in that sense, this article/post/video is nothing but a feel good moment for everyone else that ultimately doesn’t do, or change ANYTHING. Remember, he JUST claimed he never said “lock her up”. His base is unphased.
You can say what you want about Trump. But how dare you bring plinko into this.
I have no credibility or relevant qualifications. I’m just some random moron on the internet, but here’s my opinion:
His base has been manipulated. They have a sunken cost. Each time something new and horrible comes out about Donald Trump, they have to either be OK with it or come to terms with the idea that they may have been wrong about him this whole time. They’ll react emotionally to this dilemma as if being wrong in this case would constitute a personal attack on their character.
God damn. I HOPE you’re wrong. As that would imply that roughly 48% of america is voting because of this refusal to admit to themselves that they were wrong.
Hell, I KNOW I’m wrong a lot. There’s no reason to say “oh, maybe I shouldn’t have done that.” And then fix your mistakes. There’s even times I’m right 100% through an event, and then contexts change, and you have to admit the way you did it was actually wrong for reasons that hadn’t happened yet in that moment.
We used to LOVE trump in 2004. Long before he was a politician. We loved him because he was easy to laugh at, and immitate in a mocking manner. But, now I know that watching clips of him on tv, only gave him ratings, kept him with a weekly paycheck for doing nothing. I now know if he went bankrupt in the 2000s, he wouldn’t have had the standing or money to run a campaign in 2016.
So, oops. I was wrong for that. Difference is, we loved him like a clown. These people today love him like a savior. Which I do not understand.
With every new lie he tells or every new horrible thing he does, his supporters are forced to embrace it. And it just compounds. If they question him now, that would mean they’d have to question the hundreds of other things about him they’ve accepted.
So if he says “the sky is green” then they have to accept it as fact. Because if they question it, then they have to question if he told the truth about getting a fair trial, and then they have to question if he actually tried to cover up sleeping with a porn star, then they have to question if he slept with a porn star, etc etc all the way back for at least a decade. It’s much easier just to accept the latest small lie than question everything you’ve believed for so long.
Maybe a video of the quotes in context without the rando’s commentary would be swell too.
I think this a good sanity check for us all to remember the kind of person Trump is and what’s at stake. But we can’t stop with clever gotchas, we need to defeat the fascist ideas that the MAGA movement runs on. Trump will be gone one day, but fascist movements will persist until we defeat their ideas. Fascism is a self-destructive ideology that in the long term benefits no one. Everyone needs to know that.
The problem with fashist self-destruction is that they usually take the country over and then with them on their way to destruction.
The US can learn from German history or find out themselves how a Nazi government turns out.
I don’t disagree but the perceived strong man leader is one of the most important pillars of a fascist movement, who the followers love not for his position but mainly for his cunning ability to charm them. There’s no other person but Trump in sight who would take over his place in the movements’ hearts. Only Elon Musk maybe but he can’t be president. So getting at Trump is absolutely the priority, buying us time until Joe Rogan develops political ambitions.
While there is probably some benefit, that can be measured in votes, in going after Trump, it shouldn’t be the priority. The priority has to be showing people that society can be improved without needing to ostracize groups of people. People need to learn the flaws with fascism and neo-liberalism. But they also need to learn that systemic change and wealth redistribution are the answers to their political and economic problems. The fewer people who believe they can fix their problems by punishing minorities, the fewer people Trump and demagogues like him will be able to reach.
But his trial was political /s
When I see comments talking about how pointless it is to continue pointing out his hypocritical actions I immediately write that person off as a bot.
If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.
I think it should definitely be pointed out, constantly, how much of a hypocrite and liar Trump is, just to get it (and keep it) on the record. Ignoring it would only normalize it more. And maybe some fence sitters didn’t know about it and now they do. Which is a good thing.
At the same time, however, I also believe it’s absolutely pointless, if your goal is to convince any of his followers. They already know all of this and they don’t care. They don’t love him despite the lies and hypocrisy. They love him because of it. And even if they don’t like it per se, they still won’t turn against him, because they’re accepting way worse and nothing has been a deal breaker so far.
Edit: I have often wondered what Trump would have to do for his followers to abandon him. Is there anything they wouldn’t accept?
The mental exercise is… what would Biden have to do to get you to vote for the Republican Party? Or even to get you to just not vote at all? I know it’s a false equivalency, but it gives you some sense of the lines we all draw in the sand, and the “activation energy” that it takes to change our minds.
He could be as overtly criminal as Donald, taking money from Russia and the Saudis in exchange for top secret documents and lists of CIA agents, and I’d still be voting as long as he doesn’t also do an insurrection. FPTP and having all Repubs back a criminal as their preferred leader has really backed me into a corner.
IDK that the mental exercise is helpful in 2024. If the point is to say that they feel the same about Biden, that’s because they have been brainwashed by far-right propaganda. The activation energy it takes to sway them is cult deprogramming.
Overtly criminal or overtly fascist?
I could back a criminal if I found the reason to be morally sound. Let’s not forget that some crimes, morally speaking, were the right thing to do (think hiding jews during the holocaust as an extreme example, and maybe possession of certain drugs as an example of something morally ambiguous that wouldn’t keep me from voting for a good candidate)
Using campaign money to pay hush money? That’s just in line with the shit Donny already does; it’s dishonest as all hell and definitely not morally sound. He’s also clearly a fascist.
Actively supporting a genocide with billions of USD in goods seems like a great reason to not vote for Biden anymore
okay, that’s the first half… so since you’re going to not vote because of gaza, it stands to reason that it’s possible that someone would choose not to vote for Trump if he said he wasn’t going to let Israel ethnically-cleanse gaza. It’s all about putting yourself in someone else’s shoes. Thanks for participating!
I’m not even a US citizen but ok
ah. So the true answer to what would it take for me to not vote for Biden was “nothing.” I guess the question for you is, what would it take to get you to cast a valid vote for a US democrat president and why aren’t you doing it?
So the true answer to what would it take for me to not vote for Biden was “nothing.”
For me yeah. I’m just saying I sympathise with all those who think Biden crossed their “activation energy” line by supporting Israel’s genocide for this long.
what would it take to get you to cast a valid vote for a US democrat president
A good track record. I’d want to vote for Bernie if I could, after hearing the fire in his voice and knowing he means it.
Is there anything they wouldn’t accept
Find them and ask them.
Discussing on forums like these is all find and good, but in the end it’s lots of Preaching To The Choir. What people need to do is find a Red Hatter and ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.
Outreach will win the day.
Find them and ask them.
You have apparently had much more productive conversations with trumpers than I ever have.
ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.
And, it’s not hard to predict their answers.
- Treat trans people like monsters and pedophiles, and legislate as such.
- Knock gays back to the 80s or earlier via legislation
- The rest of the queer community needs to STFU and pretend they don’t exist.
- Cancel all DEI programs and make them illegal
- Immigration? No thank you!
- Make Pride month celebrations illegal at all businesses or public areas
- Follow the DeSantis model of history teaching, by trying to claim slavery was a benefit to slaves, or that Rosa Parks was just having a bad day and sat at the wrong end of the bus, etc
- Support police without question - as long as it’s the blacks, gays, antifa, and left-leaning protesters they are beating up on
- Eliminate birth control and abortions nationally
- Put back all those civil war memorials because muh heritage
- Restrict college and high school curricula to Republican-approved materials on a national level
- Cease all climate-change measures or spending
- Acknowledge there is no solution to gun violence that involves restricting the activities of gun owners.
That’s pretty close to the list for anyone who is flying a Trump flag. And if it’s not on their list, it’s still not a dealkiller.
Outreach will win the day.
You’d need to put me in kevlar and pay me a lot to go knocking on maga doors all day.
Edit: (I promise I know who Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman were, I just flipped the name by accident in my haste!) https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rosa-parks-race-removed-florida-textbook/
I love “Harriet Tubman on a bus,” that’s exactly what they would teach in a DeSantized history class.
Also, just for completeness, this was a specific reference too: 🙂
LOL while you are correct, I’m ashamed to say that was a mistake on my part, I just typed the wrong name.
I was referring to their attempt to whitewash what happened with Rosa Parks.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/22/us/florida-textbook-race-rosa-parks-reaj/index.html
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rosa-parks-race-removed-florida-textbook/
Well, I get what you’re saying, but I’m European and while there are plenty of right-wingers here, I haven’t met any actual obvious Trumpers so far, though I’m sure plenty of them do like Trump.
Was just kinda wondering ‘out loud’ if there is an actual line somewhere and what it would be. It seems to me it’s much easier for democrats to turn against their politicians than it is for republicans.
I’m Canadian, but I can still tell you why Democrats are more likely to turn against their own politicians.
People who vote Democrat tend to be more educated, and academics tend to lean left. The left-leaning academics are far more left leaning than the Democratic party and are aware that, while the Democrats are the lesser of two evils, they still stand to uphold the status quo for the ruling class, whereas the Republicans have devolved into explicit fascism.
Because the Republicans have fallen into fascism, the people who vote Republican are either undereducated and fall for the propaganda or they’re part of the ruling class and want more money.
I hadn’t really thought about the link to education much. I kind of figured that democrats just have more… deal breakers than republicans, mostly due to empathy (which… I don’t think it’s linked to education?). If you don’t like hurting people, if you care about other people (and not just the ones you know), then there will obviously be a lot of things you won’t accept.
But caring about the truth and reality and science is important, so I guess you do have a point.
Regarding your edit (i. e., what would it take for Trump followers to change their mind), go hit YouTube with a search for “Jordan Klepper fingers the pulse” and watch some of those. A more recent one, in which he speaks to Niki Haley supporters, demonstrates what are likely “more reasonable” Republicans regarding Trump, and probably best answers your question. Most feature him speaking to Trump supporters at Trump rallies. One features him talking to supporters during (yes, you read that correctly) the January 6 insurrection. Watching these will help understand the entrenched mindset. Hilarious and horrifying.
If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.
What I’m struggling with is to find evidence from past events which would lead you to believe his voters are going to be changed by showing them any of this. You’ve got the folks who do not care because they are Trump cultists, then you have the folks who would vote for Satan himself if he had R next to his name.
Everyone else is already not going to vote for him.
So what change do we think showing this to his supporters is going to effect?
Now now. He said the felony indictment would create a constitutional crisis. The trial would grind government to a halt. His trial’s over, he’s already been convicted. Completely different situation.
Sarcasm aside, I don’t expect this to matter much. Pointing out the hypocrisy never seems to do anything. Maybe hopefully it’ll peel off some hesitant voters on the margins, but will it cause the party to change course in any substantial way? I doubt it.
What about the other 51 open indictments?
Exactly. I was going to reply to the original commenter saying, like, you know he’s still got 3 other trials actively in progress right? (Well, 1 of those is indefinitely halted, but still).
Tiktok did that? I wish somebody had called YouTube to film it live.
The hacker 4chan might have been able to assist as well.
This is not a gotcha to his diehards. Trumps trial was a sham, that’s all they need to think about.
“Nononono, not like that” - republiKKKlowns
"Oh, the irony! It’s like a plot twist straight out of a reality TV show. Back in 2016, I was all about keeping the government running smoothly, and now? Well, let’s just say I’ve developed a taste for plot twists. You know, like when you find out the villain is actually the hero in disguise. Except in this case, the hero has a few court dates lined up. But hey, what’s a little legal drama between friends?
In fact, having a sitting president under felony indictment is the new norm! Think of it as a bold new way to keep things interesting in Washington. No more boring government shutdowns – just high-stakes courtroom drama that keeps everyone on the edge of their seats. It’s the ultimate season finale every day!
Plus, let’s be honest, who doesn’t love a good comeback story? So sit back, grab some popcorn, and enjoy the show. After all, what’s a little criminal trial compared to a good old-fashioned constitutional crisis? Let’s make America entertained again!"
Hey everyone, we’ve finally done it, we’ve found the one quote that will make trumpets see reason!
It will all be overturned. I understand it is not the popular opinion. HAHA Trumps a felon and so on, but no way do we want a justice system to be what we are seeing right now. Alvin Bragg ran and was elected on a platform of going after Trump, and he did it. Doesn’t matter whether you’re a Democrat or republican, this won’t stand long.
But Bragg wasn’t 12 jurors at the trial. Prosecutors are also not the judge. An appeals court might overturn it but it has nothing to do with whether the DA ran on a platform to hold someone accountable to the justice system or not.
12 jurors impartially reviewed the evidence, trump’s lawyers were allowed to DISPUTE that evidence, and in the end, those 12 jurors talked about it then came back and said with one voice, GUILTY AF.
But thanks for playing.
What is there to appeal on? He can’t appeal the guilty conviction. He can only appeal if the trial was not following procedure, which the judge made absolutely certain that he had nothing to appeal.
And the jury made sure they fully understood the instructions by having them repeated.
Good luck on your appeal 🤣
Wow, someone ran on a platform of prosecuting a criminal for their crimes? Holy shit. What has America become.
Have we forgotten the “Lock her up” chants?
