• Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
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    13 天前

    Ha, yeah, Serbia. 10% of US population, totally different political system. Quite the comparison, good luck with that.

    We can’t even vote in term limits or universal healthcare (which Serbia has already)

    I’ve voted, but know the game.

    • assaultpotato@sh.itjust.works
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      13 天前

      Show up to primaries then. Show up to local and state generals and primaries. Run for a small local office.

      MAGA started winning when they started infesting the republican party at the lowest levels: running for school boards and city councils. It’s a well documented playbook they’ve discussed publicly. Convincing people not to engage with the process is literally handing them free wins.

      The presidency is only as “powerful” as it currently is because of the legions of lower level positions that actively empower and enable it. Most presidents have very little real power, because that’s not how the US government was designed.

      Go vote and stop doomposting if you didn’t vote in a primary.

        • assaultpotato@sh.itjust.works
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          13 天前

          Time to do the non-electoral things that everyone else is mentioning: join a local political group. Create a voting bloc. Raise your own candidates. Call/email those presently in power. Encourage others to run.

          Consider running yourself. Sounds like all you gotta do is show up and you can get a job.

          engage in democracy. Boomers are right about one thing: freedom isn’t free, it’s earned. Not by bombing brown kids but by engaging with your government.

          • SuperNovaStar@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            13 天前

            I’m trying. It would be a lot easier if I weren’t mentally ill, working long hours at a “low skill” job, and one bad month away from not having a place to live.

            Sounds like all you gotta do is show up

            Eh, not exactly. Just because the corporate DINO was unopposed in the non-primary, that doesn’t mean it’s a free seat.

            Also most elected officials don’t make enough for it to be a job, not without another source of income. That’s why nearly everyone on the school board is retired or a stay-at-home spouse, you have to be wealthy to afford to do the job (not even considering how expensive running a campaign is).

            Also, not a great choice for it (as mentioned - mentally ill). I doubt anyone will trust me to lead them, anyways.

            • assaultpotato@sh.itjust.works
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              13 天前

              Man, 40% of Americans chose Dementia Donnie actively, I don’t think mentally sound is a requirement anymore.

              But I hear you, and I do empathize with the feeling of pissing into the wind. That’s why it’s important to keep everyone active and engaged. Send the DINO an email telling them what policies are important to you as a constituent. If they’re really a DINO then they’ll do whatever pivot they need to secure votes, so mass-email campaigns can be very effective.

              And email your local party offices asking for better candidates and better primary policies. There are lots of ways to shape how you get candidates on the ballot that don’t require anything more than time.

              If it were easy, it wouldn’t be called a fight. Stay strong, friend. Vote, post things outside your immediate information space, and do what you can where you can.

  • NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de
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    14 天前

    Hi from Israel. Elections were today. Preliminary results show a very strong possibility for change. It’s still up in the air, but yes, voting can fix things!

    • NewDark@lemmy.today
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      14 天前

      Israeli politicians are either Hitler, Super Hitler, or Mega Hitler. Wild to claim the elections will fix much.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      14 天前

      Elections were today. Preliminary results show a very strong possibility for change.

      Which Israeli political party opposes the genocide in Palestine, again?

      • Caveman@lemmy.world
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        13 天前

        The opposition is generally a lot softer on Palestine issue. Democrats (8 seats) and Arab parties (19 seats) have very good policies.

        Generally the center opposition parties have “reasonable” policies, Together (12 seats) is moderate and Yashar (21 seats) more or less “keep current status but remove some settlements and don’t add new”.

        The change from ethnic cleansing and genocide as a policy/talking point is a pretty major shift and governing parties are projected to get 53 seats out of 120.

        Coalition agreements are going to be pretty tough but there’s hope for a centre left block with Arab parties since a lot of things that are good for Palestinians are also generally economically good policies. This is a stark contrast to working with ultra orthodox parties which cost the state a lot of issues.

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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      11 天前

      Insane that this is getting upvoted. The current Israeli election isn’t fixing anything

    • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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      14 天前

      I heard that both of the frontrunning candidates are pro-genocide, so what change exactly? Is the argument “Netanyahu isn’t killing Palestinians fast enough”?

      • Caveman@lemmy.world
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        13 天前

        It really depends on what coalition gets formed since the leading opposition party only has 1/3 of the seats required for a majority.

        If he works with Bibi it’ll be shit but he’s being voted for specifically for not being Bibi. This means a centre left coalition with either ultra orthodox or Palestinians is very likely.

    • PagPag@lemmy.world
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      13 天前

      What does “change” look like. Because if it’s “less genocide”, nobody gives a fuck.

    • DudleyMason@lemmy.ml
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      14 天前

      It’s still up in the air

      It’s not. The genocide will continue nearly unabated regardless. The best case scenario on the table is it goes back to the pre-2023 status quo of a slower genocide.

      • OwOarchist@pawb.socialBanned
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        14 天前

        The best case scenario on the table is it goes back to the pre-2023 status quo of a slower genocide.

        …

        Isn’t that preferable, though?

        • DudleyMason@lemmy.ml
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          13 天前

          Preferable to what?

          To the genocidal settler colonial colony ceasing to exist completely? No.

          • OwOarchist@pawb.socialBanned
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            13 天前

            Preferable to what’s happening right now.

            Or are would you prefer things stay they way they are currently?

            • DudleyMason@lemmy.ml
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              13 天前

              Preferable to what’s happening right now.

              What’s happening right now has destroyed more of Israel’s international support than the decades of slow-mo genocide that preceded it.

              It’s not that Israeli genocide soldiers weren’t sniping kids looking for food before Al Aqsa Flood, it’s just that you never heard about it.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                13 天前

                What’s happening right now has destroyed more of Israel’s international support than the decades of slow-mo genocide that preceded it.

                What do you mean by that? Do you mean international support in the sense of public sentiment, or do you mean it in the sense of material change? The US is still sending them military aid, and also started a war with Iran, which benefits them.

                Even in terms of public support, your argument is self-contradicting. If Israel can revert to the “slo-mo” genocide and recover international support that way, then what does it matter that their international support was destroyed by the more extreme policy? It was only destroyed temporarily, while that policy was in place. If, on the other hand, they could not recover international support by shifting to a “slo-mo” approach, then the argument that it’s better for the more extreme policy to remain makes no sense.

                This sort of “accelerationism” is generally bullshit. People being mad about something isn’t enough to make it change, those people have to have some mechanism of affecting policy in order to affect change. One such mechanism is what may have happened here. No matter how bloodthirsty or genocidal the Israeli politicians or electorate may be, if they see that the extreme approach alienates the international community, they have an incentive to support less extreme policy.

                Calling out the limitations of voting doesn’t mean taking a hard line that it never does anything anywhere.

                • Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  13 天前

                  No we would prefer Israel end its existence. Which might possibly happen if they end up losing support from Western nations due to citizens not voting for pro-Zionist politicians.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          14 天前

          Preferable, yes, sufficient, no. The primary factor that limits Israel’s genocide, which also have the potential to stop it entirely, is not domestic opposition but foreign resistance, economically and militarily.

        • Damage@feddit.it
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          13 天前

          I guess that depends on the outcome. Everyone was kinda ignoring the slow genocide. (just a few) Things started happening internationally when the quick one began.

        • catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works
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          14 天前

          No, that’s an .ml user. They hate Palestinians and trans people. They want BB and Trump to win because saying, I told you so, is more important to them than people’s lives.

            • edible_funk@sh.itjust.works
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              13 天前

              Congratulations, your solution kills all the trans people. Good job. In a first past the post two party system in virtually every district in the US your choices are democrat and republican and a third party or protest vote is a vote for the winner. We are in an existential fight and republicans just be prevented from holding power by any means necessary. Your feelings about the reality are irrelevant. Any vote not for a Dem is a vote for the Republicans, regardless of your feelings about it. The time for protest votes was the primaries and before the republicans abandoned realpolitik to an ideologically driven death cult. The parties aren’t the same, it’s not both sides, and you’re not a fuckin ally if your principles are more important than harm reduction. The average American is functionally illiterate and that applies to media and political literacy as well as evidenced by people thinking you’re not full of shit. I hope you get to be first in line to feel the consequences of your choices. Because I will be.

          • KatakiY@lemmy.world
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            14 天前

            God damn this shit is so annoying. I thought lemmy was supposed to be better than reddit.

            You’re literally just circle jerking an opinion they didn’t state.

            • edible_funk@sh.itjust.works
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              13 天前

              It’s the general opinion of ml users at large. They genuinely think trump is better because they’re fundamentally accelerationists and think their dipshit revolution won’t kill then and everyone else.

                • edible_funk@sh.itjust.works
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                  13 天前

                  Allowing the most law breaking and openly corrupt political entity in the history of the country to take power without wielding any existing levers within the system to prevent their power. If voting didn’t matter they wouldn’t be trying to take it from you. Giving power to fascists that have abandoned rule of law and order. You privileged fucking ass.

            • catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works
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              13 天前

              They clearly stated it in their reply an hour ago. It’s almost like you can just look at the .ml after their name and know exactly what they’re going to say.

    • XiJinpingStanAccount@lemmy.ml
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      14 天前

      The only possibility for meaningful change in the Zionist Entity is if its brought about by the IRGC. Palestine is not yours.

  • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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    14 天前

    Note that the student movement formed an incredibly unique decentralized political apparatus OUTSIDE of the formal institutions. They are exemplary and I am excited to see how successful they are going forward. Dismantling the Vucic corporatist apparatus won’t be easy but I think this movement is genuinely capable of it.

    They did not vote blue no matter who, they built their own political bloc from fucking scratch.

    • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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      14 天前

      They did not vote blue no matter who, they built their own political bloc from fucking scratch

      And if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bicycle.

      The political landscape of Serbia does not seem to be one in which the concept of “blue no matter who” even resolves to an intelligible idea.

      You can’t just transplant the political strategy of one set of conditions to a completely different set of conditions.

      Certainly we have the same end goals, but your implied expectations do not match the conditions outside of Serbia.

  • DupaCycki@lemmy.world
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    13 天前

    I mean, sure, go vote. Can’t hurt, probably.

    But if you’re expecting it to fix anything, because it did in completely different countries, with vastly different histories and corcumstances… you’re in for some serious disappointment.

    • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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      13 天前

      Sure voting isn’t going to get you in a luxury communist utopia.

      But revolutions didn’t get anybody any of that either.

      If one person is promising to make things demonstrably worse, vote against them. Doing the least harm is the most I can hope for and I do it all the same.

    • agent_nycto@lemmy.world
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      13 天前

      Yeah it’s like both doing things and voting are important, and maybe people should stop shitting on voting.

  • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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    14 天前

    A real authoritarian regime can’t be made to go away by voting. Look at Russia. Putin is still in charge, and his oppositions are dead, also his government can say whatever they want about voting results, and if you disagree you’ll end up dead too.

    In America you also have authoritarianism, but it’s through oligarchy. It’s not the politicians in charge but the one’s with all the money. Nothing politically will change because they’ll just buy whatever it takes to prevent political change. That’s what gerrymandering is for.

    That is authoritarianism.

    Here in Europe we’ll be going up against riot police because American oligarchs are buying are politicians too. In America you have more bullets than any place in the world, and yet the oligarchs who buy their authority are feeling comfortable. Too comfortable.

    • 2xar@lemmy.world
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      13 天前

      I live in Hungary. What Fidesz did here was full on authoritarianism. They stole a significant, visible percentage of the GDP every year, they controlled like 95% of the media (by budget), they were actively destroying the environment by giving build permits to industry and such in areas that were previously beautiful, environmentally protected lands and not forcing companies to comply with emissions and pollution regulations (e.g. battery factories).

      And they were fully above the law, they have installed every member of the supreme court and heads of every law enforcement and secret agencies, so they could never be prosecuted.

      Last summer they have prepared a law that would have let them prosecute, dismentle and jail all of the remaining 5% of independent media - precisely from Putin’s handbook. However people organized large scale protests, so they did not dare to implement the law in the last second. This was because Orbán has built a private army, also like Putin (OMON), called TEK, but it was not big and strong enough (yet) to be able to protect them from real large scale unrests. Also, they needed to keep up some appearances, because of the EU.

      They have also gerrymandered the election and changed the election laws to help them as much as possible, back when they first gained 2/3 majority. They were also outspending campaigning the whole opposition by like a 100:1 ratio, using hundreds of millions of dollars in illegal funding.

      So yes, Hungary was under a full on authoritarian regime and like 5 minutes and this last election away from becoming a total dictatorship. There were basically like these three things separating us from the total dictatorship:

      1. Having the 5% or so free, independent media left
      2. Fidesz not cheating away the complete elections (they were cheating some and buying votes, but not on a big enough scale), only Gerrymandering and skewing it in their favor as much as possible.
      3. Not building up Orbán’s own personal army (TEK) enough to be able to crush any unrest or rebellion.

      All three of these points were most definitely getting solved in the next four years, if they gained another victory this past election, completely solidifying their power fully and indefinitely, just like Putin has done in the 2000s.

      This was Hungary’s very last chance of avoiding to become a full on dictatorship. And we’ve used it spectacularly well.

      • UroFighter@sh.itjust.works
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        13 天前

        And by doing so you gave hope to us all.

        I find the “we are doomed to fall into fascism” way easier to counter since Magyar was elected.

      • Tja@programming.dev
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        13 天前

        Good job to all of you!

        And from the outside at least looks like Magyar Peter is also doing a good job, is he?

        • 2xar@lemmy.world
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          13 天前

          He’s doing as good a job, as anyone could have hoped for. But it takes much-much more than just one man. The corruption from the last few decades (even before Orbán) is rooted very deep in all levels of society. So healing will take a lot of time. But at the moment we are heading dead on to a better, more democratic and fair country, so 180 degree turn from Orbán’s regime.

    • wpb@lemmy.world
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      13 天前

      I mean, also in liberal democracies your vote is more of a suggestion. The recent French parliamentary election is a prime example of that. Another good example would be the multiple times that electors from the US electoral college voted against what the electorate in their state voted for.

    • Caveman@lemmy.world
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      13 天前

      Really depends on the situation. If you have elections and the government has to honor the result it’s very possible.

      There have been numerous of examples of a near complete state capture being reversed in recent history such as Hungary. Voting is extremely important.

    • horsesaysweird@feddit.org
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      13 天前

      Putin didn’t install his authoritarian regime in a single blow. It took many years of public support. Voting against him now is impossible, but that’s the result of repeatedly voting for authoritarianism for decades.

      • Corn@lemmy.ml
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        13 天前

        Why do you suppose the people kept voting for Putin? Do you think the Russian skull shape predisposes them to hating freedom and loving authoritarian strongmen?

        • horsesaysweird@feddit.org
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          13 天前

          I don’t know, but my guess would be that they were desperate after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and when people are afraid of the future they tend to prefer strong leaders with drastic policies who are not afraid to use violence. Putin was popular because he knew how to press those buttons.

          But what’s with the sarcasm? I’m sorry if I offended you, but I don’t know how.

          Why do you think Russians kept voting for Putin?

          • Corn@lemmy.ml
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            13 天前

            I don’t know, but my guess would be that they were desperate after the collapse of the Soviet Union

            Putin wasn’t elected until nearly a decade later.

            Why do you think Russians kept voting for Putin?

            The 90s. Seeing their country go from conditions similar to the west to the greatest drop in life expectancy outside of war and natural disaster as your place of work closes, the copper is stripped from the walls to be sold overseas, and you can no longer afford food will make any alternative positive.

            Putin was popular because he got the other oligarchs to stop stealing 100% of the country’s labor and resources to merely 98% of it, and the alternatives are the communists who Russians tell me aren’t good and various combinations of liberals who want to bring back the 90s and basically nazis worse than Putin.

            But what’s with the sarcasm? I’m sorry if I offended you, but I don’t know how.

            Eh, anyone who uses “authoritarian” is unserious; as they don’t know or haven’t contended with the history of any states that get labeled authoritarian or not authoritarian to understand the context of actions they just mash together into “authoritarianism”.

            • horsesaysweird@feddit.org
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              13 天前

              Thank you for a more serious answer.

              So you are basically agreeing with me? People were desperate and Putin promised (and to some degree delivered) improvements.

              Which word would you use to describe the political reality in Russia?

            • 2xar@lemmy.world
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              13 天前

              The 90s. Seeing their country go from conditions similar to the west

              Bro, what are you talking about? Soviet Russia was literally dirt poor. About 1/3 of the houses in Russia don’t have indoor plumbing still to this day. A large part don’t even have electricity yet. And it was even worse during the 70s and 80s. My parents lived in the soviet block and at the end of the 80s literally everything was sold through a ticket system. From cooking oil, sugar, flour, meat, vegetables, potatoes through toilet paper to gas and sometimes even electricity was limited by quotas. In every family each person had a quota (i.e. ticket) for everything, and you could only buy things if three things were through at once:

              1. You had money for it.
              2. You had a ticket for it.
              3. It was in stock.

              It was extremely rare that these three would all be true at once. Mostly because all shops were always empty. Even if they have received stock, it was usually hidden away and only sold to friends of the shopkeepers, at least the most/best of it. It was literally true, that when you saw a line outside on the street, you stood in line. There was something in stock, and everybody was short on everything all the time.

              So no, Russia was in absolutely NO fucking way anywhere near at the standards of living of the West. Russia (and its vassals even more) was mostly a third world country, always. They had Moscow and Leningrad and a few other postcard cities that were kept well treated as a showroom. But 90-95% of the people were living at a third world country level.

              And yes, in the 90s, after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the chaos it was for a while even worse. Because while there was serious scarcity of EVERYTHING under the communism, at least the little that was available, was being divided somewhat evenly. Or at least the system tried. Hence the ticket system. But after 90, a few oligarchs, mostly the different leaders under the communist regime, has bought up everything. Every land, every machine, every factory, every produce. So not only was there still a huge scarcity, the little that was available, was in the hands of a very few, very greedy oligarchs.

              But that in no way means that beforehand people lived well, or anywhere close to western standards. Not at all.

  • joeschmoe@lemmy.world
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    13 天前

    It can work, but not always. cough Russia cough

    And I am sure the Pedophile of the United States will find some way to throw the votes not in his favor out of the window.

  • FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works
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    13 天前

    When the answer to the question ‘When did voting last end an authoritarin regime’ is ‘two days ago’

    deep breath Are we talking about…

    • Brazil
    • Serbia
    • Israel

    Then i saw the title :) Thank you for clarifying OP

  • Kairos@lemmy.today
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    13 天前

    Voting out fascism never works except for all the times it has like the same fucking guy in 2020

      • MinnesotaGoddam@lemmy.world
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        13 天前

        That was a failure of the judiciary. And the executive. Also the legislative. But the whole government? Nah. That’s a complete overreaction or something sorry I can’t keep this up

        • FearMeAndDecay@literature.cafe
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          13 天前

          The bigger problem here in the USA was that biden ran on a “return to normalcy” and didn’t even do that. And the reason trump won originally was partly bc many people were fed up with how things were and knew we needed change. trump is a “business man” (🙄) and americans believe the myth of meritocracy so they think that bc trump has money he’s a good businessman

          So when shit didn’t get better under biden, the just got worse slower and in less dramatic ways, people wanted something else. Since Harris was literally bidens vp and didn’t distance herself from him, people voted for the other guy bc we suffer under a 2 party system

          Was it absolutely fucking stupid for people to vote for trump a second time and think things would be better? Yes. But, the dems also failed to provide a good, better candidate. That’s why its so uplifting to see all of these leftist and DSA candidates. People are finally getting involved and saying we deserve better and won’t settle for less

          • immutable@lemmy.zip
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            13 天前

            This is the thing mainstream democratic voters struggle so much with.

            If the Democratic Party cant translate electoral victory into positive action, then they won’t get votes next time.

            They win an election on making things better and then tell you “oh well shoot, we couldn’t quite get there, we were so surprised to get power we didn’t know what to do with it, we passed a CHIPS act to give money to Intel though, is that what you wanted?”

            Even the ACA, the hallmark 21st century legislation for the neoliberal democrats has approximately 2 thingss people like, young people can stay on their parents plan until 25 and pre-existing conditions cant be used to deny coverage. Everything else about it sucks though, we still have for profit insurance companies, whose power and profits are now enmeshed into the system even deeper and enshrined in law. Insurers so popular with the common man that when one of their CEOs gets gunned down the media has to give up on trying to make him a sympathetic character because of how much everyone fucking hates health insurance.

            The democrats are constantly telling us how glacially slow any positive change has to be, that’s just the rules man. But the republicans get the slimmest majority and a flood of project 2025 / heritage foundation / ALEC bills are ready to go getting passed making sweeping changes to tax codes, environmental regulations, the social safety net.

            And every election the people that say the Dems are a garbage party that cant win because of their garbage candidates that go on to twiddle their fucking thumbs get yelled at for depressing voter turnout.

            You know what really depresses voter turnout, failing to deliver every time you win an election. There is some great chunk of this nation that will only go out and vote if they get angry enough or like what the current administration is doing enough to show up. The Dems only seem to be able to scratch together a victory on the angry enough side of the coin, because they’ve given up on giving the voters something to vote for. Why? Because those policies will almost certainly upset the donors, and they need those donors to run a bunch of tv ads that won’t convince a single Republican to cross over, but still need to be aired 24/7.

            That’s the most frustrating part, all this money spent for the Dems to attempt to court a handful of theoretical republicans instead of actually energizing their base.

            I’ll hold my nose and vote for these feckless cowards, but they could have a blue wave, a blue tsunami, a blue Armageddon, and I don’t expect them to do a damn thing. They’ll have some investigations, they will release some reports, they will probably impeach again. And none of that will change a damn thing.

            Every time someone ignores a congressional subpoena they will tell the sergeant at arms to take a nap, not go arrest them. They will rubber stamp the next huge pile of money for ICE for fear of being labeled soft on crime or immigration. They won’t enshrine abortion rights it trans protections into law because it will be too controversial and there will always be just enough Dems in “tough districts” that turn tail.

            Then they will act indignant when those voters that got nothing dont show up next time.

      • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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        13 天前

        There is no “beating fascism”, it’s an ethernal struggle, those fuckers are relentless. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, doesn’t invalidate your wins however small and temporary

      • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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        13 天前

        A surgeon saving your dog still counts if he later runs into traffic a second time. The vet’s office is not the shortcoming.

        • Sharkticon@lemmy.zip
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          13 天前

          Except in this case the vet didn’t stitch up the wound or set the leg. The vet just stuck a Band-Aid on it. But it was still bleeding, the wound was still full of gravel, and the leg was still broken.

          Also the vets the one who hits the dog with the car both times.

    • Tja@programming.dev
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      13 天前

      Sometimes they are just dumb. Yes, that dumb. They exist, they have communities on reddit and they ban you if you dare argue against their logic.

      • zuana@lemmy.world
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        13 天前

        There’s communities here that ban you for arguing to vote too lol. I’d argue that’s far more common in lefty spaces than liberal ones.

  • MousePotatoDoesStuff@piefed.social
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    13 天前

    At the absolute least, voting (when possible) can stop things from breaking so quickly and making it easier to do the other things that fix things.

    And once things are fixed, voting well will be one of the actions keeping things from breaking again.

    Plus, it’s just one hour of effort with years’ worth of impact. Even if that impact is low, it’s a good tradeoff.