This is unacceptable. And I’m sick of all the fucking workarounds to maintain basic privacy.
Shut the fuck up, nobody cares about your robot fanfiction. Know your fucking place, trash! Fucking robots, I don’t talk about no robots. They got no soul.
- FilthyFrank
Currently, the age requirement is attestation. You click through an age gate.
So essentially its the same as most social media, which currently requires you are over 13. Kids have long learned to lie about their age to set up social media accounts.
Laws may get passed to require an ID check or confirmation, but at that point that’ll require telling the device (and its corporate masters) your identity and I think that’s going to interact with privacy rights.
I learned in the USENET days to adopt a handle, to keep my meat identity separate from my online identity. We’re going to have to learn that again.
If it does it will be the last thing it does
It won’t. Ever. Because Linux.
If you think that some asshole won’t be willing to legislate that away, think again. It might be the last refuge, but it is entirely possible to shut that down
As I pointed out, and is already actively underway on mobiles with regards to GrapheneOS and LineageOS, apps and services could always start blocking Linux.
You can fine public orgs but it will just go underground unless they permanantly shut off all internet infrastructure which they will not do
Legislate whatever you want, you can’t stop free software.
you can’t stop free software.
No. But you CAN stop providing any online services to free software.
G already has been moving toward requiring a “trusted OS” to get past fucking recaptcha. It isn’t rolled out yet. But it could be.
Linux can’t stop that, b/c it can just be blocked from everything if the trusted OS attestation isn’t present.
No. But you CAN stop providing any online services to free software.
Good news, I already don’t do that. But lots and lots of people do without any company involved at all.
G already has been
Are you just not going to explain what “G” is?
Linux can’t stop that
It…doesnt have to?
Good news, I already don’t do that
You do it for every single thing you do online. The goal of many govs and big tech is to gate everything behind an attestation requirement. Everything.
That’s the point. The initial move here is extremely weak attestation. You can just lie to it, or use an OSS OS. But they won’t stop there. If everything gets gated behind strong attestation, then all those things become off limits to Linux. Sure, you can keep using your Linux box in your house. That cannot be stopped. But what CAN be stopped, is your ability to do anything whatsoever with it which requires the internet. Heck, even the ability to get a n/w connection can be gated.
No? I sure don’t.
If everything gets gated behind strong attestation, then all those things become off limits to Linux
So you think everyone will just abandon free software?
No? I sure don’t.
You sure do. I don’t think you quite realize the possible implications.
So you think everyone will just abandon free software?
Everyone? No. Ofc not. But most home users? Yes. If we ever see strong attestation gating requiring a “trusted” OS, then I expect most who use linux today would abandon it. B/c everything they want to do, won’t work. But it will work with Android, IOS, Windows. Big-tech trusted platforms. Data centers and so on will be able to use Linux… by abiding the attestation reqs.
Ofc it won’t be every single last person or every single use. There are offline uses for computers too. But normal ppl want to use online services with that laptop on their desk. They want to bank. Shop. Use social media. Etc.
You’re still out to brunch I see
You still think there are things you can do on the internet that won’t be affected by this
Are you actually naive, or are you being intentionally obtuse?
So you think everyone will just abandon free software?
Free software will no longer work with anything important online for participation in society. Therefore it will never take off. Therefore all consumers will be herded into cloud-streamed software on little baby walled garden tablets and fed AI answers with system prompts instructing the model not to talk about sensitive subjects. What genocide in Gaza? The Gazans are HAPPY about the ceasefire! Trumps name in the Epstien files? Turns out Adam Schiff doctored the evidence, he was never in the Epstien files! America votes for Eric to be the next President! 1000 years Trump dynasty! You’ll never get tired of winning!
Don’t say anything bad though, or they’ll fucking debank you
And hypothetically that reCAPTCHA could also serve as an ID of sorts:
- Any Google account verified 18+ gets full web access.
- Any Google account 14-17 gets mildly restricted access.
- Any Google account 9-13 gets heavily restricted access.
- Any Google account 8 and under or anyone without a Google account are locked out entirely.
… That could be a pretty effective way to completely lock down the web.
You can legislate it to the point that it’s only possible to spread or hand to hand, and doing so is illegal. Hell, they could go a step further and make just having a copy of it within your house illegal, even if it wasn’t installable.
In any real terms, that means the only way to keep a foss os is to build it entirely yourself. Not build it from source, but code the source from the ground up. It would take time to happen, but when enough time passes, both only do the skills necessary to do that fade, but hardware changes being closed would add another layer of difficulty. Look at the pain in the ass that android rom developers have trying to get AOSP going on a given device.
I get it, I get the dream of a dedicated and determined underground keeping Linux alove under an oppressive regime, but it isn’t realistic
I don’t agree. They would have to ban the entirety of free software, in which case they’d take down pretty much the entirety of all software in the process.
Also TOR is a thing.
yeah like all these countries across the world aren’t getting news outside their firewalls lol
Basically the plot of https://analognowhere.com/
torvalds is pro ai
debian is ai
ubuntu is ai
linux is conforming/selling out
This blanket statement does not capture the reality / nuance. They are pro AI in the sense of using it as a tool for development not to shackle the entire human race into a surveillance state.
I don’t understand what that has to do with this conversation.
linux no longer looks like it is likely to remain an escape route from all of this bullshit.
How do you figure?
How do you not figure?
LOL that’s not how this works.
“LOL” indeed
If Torvalds and Debian are OK using AI and if I were against it, I would at least consider the possibility that may be I’m wrong about it.
Jensen Huang too, so it looks you have to be pro ai now, I mean Ed Sheeran is probably all up in it, so it must be the goat fam lol
Self-reflection?
Quick, get out of now while you’re still normal.
I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt until I saw your responses.
“Is AI” is meaningless drivel. Software does not become “AI”, and an OS is not and cannot “be” AI.
What you mean is, “Debian devs use LLMs to code”, which has no impact on or correlation to whether Debian will include age or ID verification. No one ordered the devs to use LLMs, so that is not evidence of their “compliance” with authorities, as you seem to imply.
These snarkily-delivered insinuations have no value; they’re not educating anyone about the topic, they’re not arguing anything of substance, they lack basic technical understanding of what they’re criticizing… they’re just a feel-good gotcha for you.
“is ai” is very obviously a simplification, but is also the reality of where they have chosen to go.
The manner in which debian conducted their transition, says a great deal about them.
You were not going to give me the benefit of the doubt, don’t expect anyone who is genuine to believe otherwise. The subject of ai is mainly polar. the majority of people on lemmy are not experiencing their 1st day on the internet.
You were not going to give me the benefit of the doubt, don’t expect anyone who is genuine to believe otherwise.
You’re free to be as cynical as you like.
“is ai” is very obviously a simplification, but is also the reality of where they have chosen to go.
It’s not a “simplification”. A simplification is still roughly the same meaning. “Coded with AI” and “Is AI” are unrelated statements, not more or less nuanced versions of each other, any more than “Bill is driving a racecar” and “Bill is a racecar” are.
You are ai Bill
Hey, a non-response deflective joke! I see you too went to middle school!
My collection of hoarded media waits eagerly if this forces me to say goodbye to the internet outside of work obligations
Work is an interesting point. Maybe working with a computer (a till, a barcode scanner, a stock checker, a multimeter) will be the thing that gets people scooped up and compliant first - even if you are using a work device, on a work network, on the business premises. If you want the $10 an hour: “gotta scan your ID, or you can’t activate the wafflegrill”
Exactly. Hoard now, watch/read/listen later (and now as well).
snickers in arch linux
Giggles in Gentoo.
The Linux exemptions in Cali and Colorado bring up something else if that gets followed on a broader scale: Can’t apps and services just start blocking Linux and start specifically demanding Windows or Mac?
Apps will get your age range from your operating system using an application programming interface (API). In other words, they’ll ask the operating system for your age range and get a response.
It’s likely. But I don’t know how much of an effort would be for a Linux based OS to have a pre-made token for that kind of thing.
My work programs from back when I was in accounting, uh, none of them work on Linux. They haven’t even started working on Linux versions.
If they can identify it, sure. But OS fingerprinting is not perfect through a browser, and can be tricked pretty readily.
Can’t apps and services just start blocking Linux and start specifically demanding Windows or Mac?
In principle? Yes. It could become a complete cryptographic attestation chain.
I don’t think we’re right on the edge of that rn. But years or decades from now? Who TF knows.
I could easily see things like Discord, Meta, Google, Reddit, and Twitter doing this if it came to that, for instance.
And nothing of value was lost.
Things will just get worse if we don’t do something concrete, like organizing protest marches and petitions, going on strike, and similar.
Quoting from an episode of Slow Horses: “heavy on hashtags, light on results”.
Sad thing is that the majority of people are too lazy, cowardly, propagandized & weak-willed. We need to be like the citizens like Hong Kong & Sri Lanka from riots against their governments (& Nepal as of recently when their government tried Identity Verification).
It’s more complicated than that. A lot of people simply don’t have the time and energy after work for this.
A mass movement like this is going to need a support network, much like some of the successful ones in the past.
Because it’s all by design. They need to find a way to make time, especially when it comes to their rights. Everyone who fought in the civil rights war for our rights had. And that’s just one example.
They need to make time, especially when their rights are on the line. This is all by design.
Yes, they do. And yes. it is. But unfortunately, because of that, most of them will need some level of support and positive encouragement to do so.
Reply to my other comment towards you from under it, as I’ve deleted the one there.
It’s even sadder when you consider that SOPA caused a mass blackout protest which ultimately got it hidden away until its chance to reappear and this time maybe actually become law.
No one’s doing any sort of mass blackout protests this time around.
No one has any savings left in case our jobs terminate us after receiving a threatening letter signed by Kash Patel over continuing to employ us after a Flock camera identified us at the protest that the news is reporting was filled with pedophiles mad about protecting children.
Will someone just hurry up and build a wall around the usa?
Claudia Sheinbaum suddenly sits up in bed, in a cold sweat
“¡Mierda! ¡Teníamos con qué pagarlo!”
We’re building it as fast as we can!
It needs a roof too.
Please don’t give our government more ideas, they might actually do it
The wall is for the rest of the world, the usa had its chance to be decent and chose to be the exact opposite for many decades. Now even with something as revolting as trump, the people still show no sign at all of ever waking up and being decent.
I’m waiting for the selfie required logins. Right now, you log into YouTube or anything else with that user base and they want a selfie and a phone number. YouTube even asks for your address. You can skip. For now.
Oh, yeah. Like those memes with selfie logins to unlock a toilet or fridge.
You log in and then the AI agent will summarize what you’re watching and contact the authorities in case it flags you suspicious? How dystopian!
Sorta feels like iOS Face ID played a role in normalizing this for the general public
Selfies always read as less secure to me. Possibly problematic on bad days or Halloween.
Fingerprint or tapping a code makes more sense.
Oh well back to C64
mine won’t :)
bet you $100 it won’t?
The real workaround is using Linux. Age verification isn’t truly enforceable in Open Source software
Apps will get your age range from your operating system using an application programming interface (API). In other words, they’ll ask the operating system for your age range and get a response.
It’s likely that we’ll get block if on Linux unless if the OS has a token for that check.
But I agree with you, Linux is the way to go. Windows will end up being a surveillance camera first and foremost, especially if you couple the “age” check with the cloud integration.
My DoB is 2000/01/01 then
Doubtful. The only Windows computer I have is the work laptop and they’re unlikely to be worried about making corps verify their ages.
