Jokes on you, I’m not eating the shit sandwich, I’m eating the vomit sandwich!
I think there should be more focus on what politicians stand to represent, their history, their associations, and what they voted for.
Policy changes are extremely important as well, but it gotten more and more complicated over time. Sounds good on paper, but turns out to be a market grab for corpos.
Then you have people like Charlie Crist… The I will be whatever party that will make me money. He was a republican and now he’s a democrat. Right
Yes, even on Lemmy, seems to be a lot more of that.
Probably because people who point out hypocrisy or ask a community to do better than the other side often results in them being echochambered out and Reddit mods love to permaban anyone who disagrees with their strict opinions.
And before you ask. No, that didn’t happen to me. I just really like raunchy ass porn.
In the last month, specifically? I don’t disagree with what you’re saying but it seems to be targeted, time-wise.
It’s also rather beside the point in the American two party system, with current hardline far right people in leadership. Both sides do commit atrocities, but the current administration is speed running the collapse of the world order.
It’s so funny that you think the uptick in critiques of Dems in the last month is specifically because the bot farms are spinning up and not because there’s an uptick in electioneering that the critica are able to visibly respond to
It’s not so funny that you ignore years of reports about people in other countries paid to post on social media.
It’s neither fully one thing or the other, but ignorance of foreign interference only helps them win.
Only Russians could hate Democrats, our true saviors.
I won’t say what I think about people who don’t understand basic logic, but I will say that’s an amazing leap of “logic” there, friend.
I think billionaire interference is more prominent than foreign interference. You have news stations, Republicans and Democrats all spouting the same pro-Israel, anti-socialism rhetoric.
Well, yes. It’s hard to see someone’s entire comment history in a thread, but if you stalked me, you will find me repeatedly railing against our oligarchs as the primary problem we must solve - wealth inequality is the primary problem in the US, all else stems from that or is related, imho.
But that has little to do with the comment to which I was replying. :)
I think it’s prettyyyy related. I mean what kind of comments are we even talking about against dems?
Not in near as great a volume as during the presidential years, but there’s the usual drum beat of ‘Dems bad so don’t bother cause it’s all useless’ type posts. Might be that I see less though having defederated the triad when I switched from Lemmy to Piefed.
Isn’t it possible to ask some Dems to do better and maybe get rid of the geriatrics? It’s hard to include all that when pointing out to someone why “vote blue no matter who” or “vote left straight down the ballot” are not the best choices.
After all… We have “vote blue no matter who” and “vote left straight down the ballot” a few times resulting in Dems controlling the exec and leg branches which didn’t turn out so hot for a vast majority of folks.
Isn’t it possible to ask some Dems to do better and maybe get rid of the geriatrics?
Yes, right up until the primary is over.
After that, it’s time to hold your nose and vote for the (D) anyway as a matter of harm reduction.
geriatrics
Sure, get rid of the progressive ones as well as the centrist/establishment ones and then wonder why it doesn’t help when you still have the younger progressive ones and younger centrist/establishment ones.
why “vote blue no matter who” or “vote left straight down the ballot” are not the best choices.
The time to get who you want is BEFORE the general election. When it comes to the general election, a centrist/establishment Dem is still better than a fascist. So in the general, “vote blue no matter who”, but in the PRIMARY is where you support a candidate - not just with your vote, but money if you can, canvassing if you can, online discussion if you can.
people do not want to hear this but if you want to have legitimate change in 2032 it’s time to start working toward it. 2028 is not going to be the year you want.
politics is slow as fuck.
Bingo.
Do that after you have power. Not during an election, in ways which amplify information warfare. Like, just activate a single strategic brain cell for like three months every 4 years.
Republicans have figured this out. How long will it take progressives?
Isn’t it possible to ask some Dems to do better and maybe get rid of the geriatrics?
AFAIK, not anymore. The time for that was a month ago.
That’s why you vote in the democratic primaries, to do that thing you just said. Then you prevent republicans from getting power in the general. It’s not hard, but leftists would have to actually vote instead of just bitching online. You wonder why democrats don’t cater to leftists? Leftists don’t fuckin vote.
In twenty years Dems have only held a supermajority for like two months and they passed the ACA. Fuck outta here with your bullshit.
the aca was a Republican handout to insurance companies.
The aca improved the quality of life of the average American. The aca slowed down the rapidly increasing premiums insurance companies were rolling out. The aca prevented those insurance companies from denying or gouging for preexisting conditions or removing people from insurance for developing chronic conditions. The aca was a mess and far from perfect but it absolutely was a significant improvement to the status quo and a net benefit to every citizen. And always remember that it wasn’t better due to the policy of republican obstructionism. Don’t be a fuckin idiot.
The purpose of Vote Blue No Matter Who is just that.
Dems suck, don’t get me wrong, but there is no path to anything good through the GOP, and 3rd parties are essentially a waste.
The general idea is basically, push the Dems to a super majority for a few cycles so the GOP dies off, then split the Dems into a new Conservative (current Dems) and proper Progressive (Probably Dem Socs) parties.
Preach
Oh wow, sounds like a great plan, wonder why it has never panned out over the many decades of this talk.
Because too many people don’t have the patience or attention span to suck it up for an decade and “protest not vote” over stupid shit like Palestine/Israel being eternally at war or because a candidate didn’t campaign EXCLUSIVELY on giving trans people all the candy.
These issues are important, but maybe a bigger, more important issue is not letting the fucking Nazis take over. Because no one wins under the Nazis, not Palestine, not trans people, not women, not Hispanic people, not even white CIS asshole dudes in the end.
No one.
stupid shit
Yeah man, the modern day holocaust is just some silly little thing. You also seem to not understand that genocide was the straw that broke the camels back.
Not letting the Nazis take over
Both parties are Nazis. You really seem to struggle with this. But then again, you are calling a genocide “stupid shit” and both-sidesing it, so you are pretty close to being one yourself.
There are plenty of people who claim they didn’t vote for Harris or didn’t vote at all, because she was kind of wishy washy on he stance on the whole thing.
Meanwhile Trump was openly stating he wants to bulldoze Gaza and turn it into a Dubai style resort for rich people.
These are not the same, and it’s fucking stupid that people seem to act like they are. Especially given the tidal wave of EVERYTHING ELSE the GOP have been openly pushing.
“Holocaust” or not, the GOP is bad for everyone. Especially everyone in the country.
And it is stupid shit. They have been going back and forth for decades and before that there was still fighting constantly in that space because everyone thinks they have exclusive rights to their stupid Sky Daddy homeland over everyone else. It’s just endless fucking religious bull shit wars. Don’t act like Palestine wasn’t also killing innocent people going the other way before. Today’s conflict doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
There are plenty of people who claim they didn’t vote for Harris or didn’t vote at all, because she was kind of wishy washy on he stance on the whole thing.
No. They didn’t vote for her because she was a fervent supporter of Israel.
These are not the same,
Yeah, one wears a shitty tan and the other laughs kind of funny. They both wanted to give billions to Israel, they both wanted to flatten Gaza, they both wanted to commit genocide.
“Holocaust” or not, the GOP is bad for everyone
Lmao you would have voted for Hindenburg.
And it is stupid shit. They have been going back and forth for decades and before that there was still fighting constantly in that space because everyone thinks they have exclusive rights to their stupid Sky Daddy homeland over everyone else.
Okay so you are either an ahistorical idiot or a liberal zionist. Next time you open your mouth, make sure you actually know what you’re talking about before you do so.
Don’t act like Palestine wasn’t also killing innocent people going the other way before.
There are no innocent colonialists. The palestinians have been driven from their homes, ruthlessly targeted for extermination, bombed, put in the largest open-air prison in the world, constantly surveilled, attacked by daily raids and so much more for decades. Them fighting back is not some wanton act of violence. It is a people defending itself.
Today’s conflict doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
Insane thing to say to equivocate the people being genocided with the genocider. Even more insane thing to say when the context is a decades-long slower-burning genocide.
But I guess you have to be insane to be a liberal zionist.
Couldn’t possibly be because a sizable portion of the “left” is actively working against it…could it???
✊↔️🖐️💦
Probably not, since Obama had a supermajority and yet your promised land never came to be. All we got was drone-strikes on Afghan wedding-venues, slave-trade in Libya, bailouts for stockbrokers, more deportations than under Bush and the slow deterioration of conditions that fascilitated Trumps first election victory.
Somehow this is the lefts fault, a movement that is both powerful enough to hamstring the democrats from… implementing health care? And also not powerful enough to actually listen to.Personally I think its the fault of that dastardly parlamentarian and [insert designated villain of the week democrat]!
You know this talk of yours has been around since the 1800’s, right? All it has amounted to is running Democrats that would make Reagan look like a pinko.
deleted by creator
Hello nine day old account encouraging people not to vote democratic!
deleted by creator
You can do better than that MAGAt.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
You added this reply less than two minutes after your original. I’d recommend looking for the “edit” button next time. It’s more polite than expecting people to keep up with the fact that you replied to yourself before anyone else even had a chance to reply to you.
As is so often the case, the details matter. How blue is your city? Did your DSA candidate run as a third party, or as a Democrat after winning the democratic primary?
Good on them, but when the long shot nobody had heard of on a national stage is barely an afterthought telling people to not vote for the less evil blue person running 49/49 with the very evil red person is helping the red person.
deleted by creator
Turns out when you vote for that blue person, you’re electing them into office where they will go ahead and help the very evil red person on your behalf. Isn’t representative democracy grand?
Noooo you dont get it! We have to vote for them, otherwise the other genociders will win! And they’re kind of rude!! Besides, now is not the time to critique the party, as we all know, if we don’t point out the obvious flaws with our candidate, then the opponents aren’t allowed to do it either!
Look you can critique the party after the election (not really, because that’s when we have to rally around them and support them) not at the time of the primaries though, that’s when you have to advocate for your specific candidate only (and if we ratfuck them, then that’s just too bad) and only in a way where you dont critique the party. You also cant do it before elections.The best way to push the party left is to shut up and vote for it no matter what. As you can see, this has been an incredibly succesful strategy. Remember when we didnt get universal healthcare or when we didnt codify Roe v. Wade? Remember when we invaded Libya or when we decided to destroy ACORN? Or the patriot act, boy that was swell. Hey remember Jimmy Carter? He was so nice when he destroyed Cambodia. Or Clinton, good ol’ Bill! The saxophone guy who did NAFTA and bombed Yugoslavia so he could have sex with his wife again - in between his visits to Epstein island.
And what about Joe Biden?? The most progressive president since JFK! What with all the Union busting, increased police budgets, arbitrary declaration of COVID being over (despite thousands still dying), his unrepentant support for Israel, all the fracking… This thing is just going so well, don’t mess it up now! One of these days we might even have a president who deports fewer people than the previous administration.
Well, if you’re not gonna vote, then your political opinions ain’t really worth listening to, are they? I mean, not like you could even be bothered to do the bare minimum political speech.
deleted by creator
Bahahaha I was planning on lurking, but calling someone “lil man” in an attempt to be condescending gives off such a tiny dog syndrome vibe I just had to comment.
Nah, non-voters ain’t worth listening to.
deleted by creator
Oh. Did you vote?
Who are “You folks”?
deleted by creator
Who lumped anything all into one? A young account who calls others cowards for not starting a violent uprising doesn’t suggest serious discussion material.
It’s not complicated, primaries to make progress, generals you deal with to at least reduce harm.
deleted by creator
Nah, this is the standard pattern. The usual election information warfare strategy simply doesn’t scale as well for hundreds of races because it can’t be orchestrated from a top down structure, so they don’t put in the same effort. It’s meant to rely on useful idiots, teenagers, malcontents and cynics amplifying a single narrative on the Internet, which just doesn’t work when the issues are sufficiently local.
It’s honestly amazing people still fall for this though, but the evidence that it works is that they keep doing it, and gestures broadly. And also that they don’t really bother for the midterms.
guy who thinks revolution when firebombing walmart
I mean the Revolution can have a little firebombing walmart.
As a treat.
Saved. This should not be as applicable to lemmy as it is.
Ex-CUSE me, but HAVE you firebombed a Walmart? No? Then shut up!
(I’m kidding, I’m kidding!!! And I’m also stealing the image as well…) :)
Save this one too: “I can’t even trust you to vote or and/or be a poll worker, why would I trust you in a violent revolution?”
“because you can lob biological weapons at the enemy and i am very light”
Oh wow, that’s good
Cowb in shambles.
Rent free
Everyone knows that in a democracy the only two options are voting and firebombing Walmart. You can’t do both, and anyone who suggests otherwise is blue MAGA.
God that’s become such a hot term here lately. Particularly among the type of people who will go into repeating the same phrase over and over when they get shut down in an argument.
That’s everyone here.
People on lemmy be like “your strategy of doing literally anything else pales in comparison to mine of winning elections” and then they go on and lose
People join and support groups that take real action. Take the houthis for example. MLs by comparison can’t even fill out a ballot.
Good argument, I will now join ISIS.
In the real world there’s plenty of marxist-leninist organisations in the west that do take action. One might wonder why these groups are cracked down on viciously as soon as they get any traction, while this “just vote for progressives” idealism has been allowed to flourish for decades now.
One might wonder why these groups are cracked down on viciously as soon as they get any traction,
Ohh no there opposition to reform. Let me also discourage other forms even tho its easy to do more than one thing
“MLs don’t do anything!”
Actually they do. “Well they don’t do enough!”
Because whenever an ML group gets political traction, it gets targeted harshly by the state
“Defeatist! Russian propagandist”The fact that you are allowed to run your mouth about your little idealistic strategy of “changing the democrats from the inside”, while any actual vector of progress gets shut down, should give you a hint on how viable your idea is. Either that or, you know, look at the many many many many times you’ve tried this so far, to no success.
You people keep acting as if you’re being told to do nothing, when all you’re told is this one thing that you keep doing does not work. I suppose acting as if you’re told to do nothing is easier than actually engaging with the people disagreeing with you
while any actual vector of progress gets shut down,
Support them anyway.
Is taking an evening to vote in primary and election day too hard for you yet expect others to velive your serious about higher level activism?
Am confused, how would firebombing a walmart bring change?
Doesn’t help if people read “Dems bad” as “don’t bother”.
I wonder what the genocide scoreboard looks like between dems and repubs? Probably pretty even.
Daily reminder that not voting or voting for a ugly complicit communist bitch with zero redeeming qualities is the same as voting for fascist terrorist
Both siders are the distinctive worst.
Yes, I’ve noticed the same pre-election uptick every cycle. Bots (or boughts) come out of the woodwork to shame anyone for having principles that are more important than partisanship, and to make excuses for why everyone just has to hold their nose and vote for whatever genocidal trash monster the center right party nominates because the far right party is technically worse.
And here you are, OP, right in schedule.
Yes. Be sure not to vote in the upcoming midterms in the US. It would be horrible if the genocidal dems win it. Better it be the republicans.
The problem with the lesser evil argument is that voting for the lesser evil cycle after cycle ultimately resulted in Trump and possibly the end of American democracy.
No, people voting for the MORE evil is what resulted in Donald Trump. you’re mistaking the fact that people voted for Trump as the same as people voting for the lesser evil when that’s not what has been happening in America. What’s been happening is people have been voting for the most evil option which caused Donald Trump.
If the democrats were a genuinely left-wing party that took working class concerns seriously, whether that’s migration keeping wages artificially low, industrial decline, jobs moving abroad, stagnating wages, increasing inequality, or the disproportionate influence of the 1% and wallstreet on politics, they wouldn’t have lost as many voters to Trump or actually convinced them to turn up and vote.
A drowning man will grab on to a straw. Without a true left-wing party, plenty of working class voters took a gamble on the snake oil salesman, fell victim to the propaganda, or decided they wouldn’t vote against him. Union members voted for Trump in droves. That’s a damning indictment of the democratic party.
If the democratic party had been genuinely left-wing, those voters would have had less reason to take that gamble. Instead they have steadily moved further and further to the right on many issues, labouring under the false assumption that their base had no alternative but to vote for them, even if those voters were drowning.
To be clear, I think everyone can and should vote against fascism. But the democratic party failing to deliver for working class voters, while the rich got richer, made a populist demagogue an inevitability.
Learn the lessons of the Weimar Republic and how it fell.
Which, as we all know, was a real thing.
No, but not any better for it to be the Blue Wall St fellators over the red ones.
If you were old enough to remember the last time a Dem majority passed legislation that benefited working people more than it benefitted Wall St, you’d be pretty statistically unlikely to be on the Internet at all, let alone on Lemmy.
Another .ml bites the dust
You don’t have to announce that you’re censoring yourself, lol.
BlueMAGA, now as into conspiracy theories as their red bretheren, and for the same reasons.
I’m sorry you’re worried that the Democrats strategy of doing nothing might not pay off, and that endorsing genocide still is such a loser issue. But that doesn’t mean the people refusing to share your party loyalty over any common sense are part of a conspiracy, foreign or domestic.
Well make our own ranked choice voting system with blackjack and hookers!
For anyone who needs to hear it, that’s not an excuse to not criticize whatever your side is.
I like these threads because they make it easy to see who to block.
Jamille Bouie gave a (brief) deep dive into the similarities and differences between the two parties (here on YouTube).
Both parties have a history of being influenced by business interests over public interests (especially after Reagan, and lobbyists and special interest groups were legally given access to elected officials).
However, the Republican party is openly and deliberately trying to unmake elections in the US at federal and state levels to gain a permanent majority all three branches of government, to turn the US into a one-party autocracy. Meanwhile, the Republican led government is borrowing money at an accelerated rate and funneling it into the pockets of plutocrats and conglomerate megacorporations through government contracts and subsidies.
(And once those plutocrats are done financializing the US into ruin, they will move on to the rest of the developed world, which they can alread easily afford to do. We’re seeing signs of it already.)
Why yes, I have noticed the pre-election uptick of posts like this designed to prep the masses to slavishly vote for whatever do-nothing Biden/Kamala/Hillary joke candidate the establishment will be choosing for us next time. If Kamala won we’d all be having brunch right now, right?
I wouldn’t call it inconsistent with the political season. People are going to express their politics before the election, especially leading up to election day.
I’d be more concerned if people were so disengaged they had nothing to discuss.
