I’d give up the bacon and the server farms for affordable consumer grade hardware and tobacco.
long-time vegan here, this argument is as old as time.
is it ethical to kill? no.
do humans need meat to survive? no.
is animal agriculture equivalent to slavery? yes.
if you eat meat, deep down inside you know you’re supporting: murder, rape, entrapment, torture, and slavery. that includes eggs and milk.
bonus fun fact: pigs are smarter than dogs
Even just a general reduction of meat consumption in the populace couple eradicate this kind of farming.
“Reduction of slavery could eradicate whippings”
Abolish it
Never let perfection be the enemy of good.
Yeah, good luck with that. I guess you don’t understand how humans and humanity work. Without incentive, you can’t expect humanity to change anything, especially if the consequences don’t affect them directly.
Theres also a difference between having a factory farm and having a normal more traditional farm, ignoring that is just deliberately being obtuse.
“There’s also a difference between having a full plantation and a couple helping hands at home”
Abolish it
Good luck with that. I wish you well with changing the mind of some 6 or 7 billion people, with your and the previous commenters attitudes, I’m sure you’re going to win everyone over.
Reinforcement of the whole “vegans are insufferable” trope I guess.
changing the mind of some 6 or 7 billion people
You think we needed to change everyone’s mind before we abolished human slavery?
🫡
wrong on every account. (well, maybe not about pigs intelligence)
Very convincing argument from you here
I’ve presented just as much evidence as the user to whom I’m replying.
The argument is as old as time and yet yorie absolutely wrong about all of it.
is it ethical to kill?
Under many circumstances, yes it is.
do humans need meat to survive
Not all do, but approximately 1/3 humans have any one of half a dozen different conditions that make them unable to thrive on a vegan diet, even with the expensive supplements that price many working people out of veganism.
Is animal agriculture equivalent to slavery?
No, and you saying so is an insult to every enslaved human on Earth.
if you eat meat, deep down inside you know you’re supporting: murder, rape, entrapment, torture, and slavery. that includes eggs and milk.
Works cited: crackPipe.png
And your salad has much more exploited human labor in it than my steak has exploited animal labor. Maybe work on ending the exploitation of your own species before trying to equate your fad diet with ethics?
Just say that you cum in your panties a bit when you pay for the torture of sentient beings.
And where the fuck did you read that 1/3 of humanity cant go vegan? I cant find a single source on it
Just say that you cum in your panties a bit when you pay for the torture of sentient beings
Just say you love huffing the smell of your own farts and that the malnutrition has left you with brain fog too severe to figure out how to operate a search engine.
you are stating oppinions as fact
the humans not needing to eat meat one is a fact
Except for the humans with malabsorptive disorders, who can’t get enough protein from plant based foods, humans with Achlorhydria, who need more bioavailable nutrients than a plant based diet can provide, and people with any of several conditions affecting the liver or kidneys that prevent the absorption of several key vitamins from plant sources, and people with ARFID who can’t eat plant based foods.
Most humans don’t need to eat meat, but the minority who do need to eat meat is a much larger minority than most vegoon evangelists care to admit to.
You don’t get it. I literally have the disease that makes me die if I don’t eat meat. Check your privilege.
yeah I guess that specific one maybe, but the rest is still true, he is just stating oppinions as fact and that’s just not a good way to argue about anything.
Hey man if you’re gonna be a debate club stickler the least you could do is be accurate in your critique
Healthy humans, unfortunately.
you don’t know what anyone else needs
Why is it inherently unethical to kill and eat animals? Let’s say I raise some free range chickens on my land, consume their eggs and occasionally eat one. Why is this unethical?
I’d argue it’s unethical to kill animals inhumanely or to force them to live so long they suffer like we do with many pets
-
Most people imagine only female chickens which means the male chicks are killed soon after birth which is unethical
-
Chickens eat their non fertilized eggs to recoup the nutrients it takes to lay them so stealing them has negative consequences for their health (eg fragile bones) causing which is unethical
-
The idea itself that you can take something from someone else just because you are stronger or smarter and they can’t stop you is the mindset of an oppressor or a bully and is inherently unethical
The animals are also guilty of #3 , but two wrongs don’t make a right
Yea, what animals do is not considered ethical in plenty of cases. We wouldn’t kill someone else’s baby because “lions do infanticide too” right :p
- Is easily fixed by just not killing the male chickens
- Is easily fixed by giving your chickens nutritionally balanced food
1 is easily fixed
Then why does everyone I know who keeps chickens in their backyard only have female chickens?
🏃♂️ 3? 🦢
I agree with you on point three, so I didn’t list a response.
- has nothing to do with the ethics of killing
- again, the same (especially if they are kept in good nutrition, shells returned, etc.)
- they aren’t a person, and that would make all of nature existing unethical
they aren’t a person, and that would make all of nature existing unethical
are you a person? ethics and morality are human concepts…
arguing that eating meat isn’t unethical because it happens in “nature” is like arguing you should be allowed to rape people because ducks do it…
-
Exactly, I do just this with my dogs and these fucking militant vegans always be on my case.
Amen 🙏🙏
I feel like I’ve been standing my entire life and I just sat down
Big sigh, no lie.
What’s this from?
I think it’s called Orville?
Caplyta is an anti-psychotic.
Do you really want to take that from me?!?
It could be made vegan. As someone who has to take nonvegan medication this and all the animal testing is a real issue.
all the animal testing is a real issue.
Ok, straight to human testing then.
OMG 🤭 I needed your sense of humor so bad this morning. I was in a real pit and your wit has started something positive. I just want you to know how much I appreciated it. 🙏
There are also many effective alternatives to animal testing in the case of vivisection for medical and pharmaceutical purposes. This is good news, since animals have been proven time and again to be poor models for the study of human injury and disease. But if this is the case, you might ask, why are animals still used in medical and pharmaceutical research at all? One reason is momentum. The tradition of vivisection is deeply ingrained in this research such that status quo bias is a powerful factor in perpetuating it. Another reason is money. Researchers receive grant money based on the number of papers they publish in scientific literature, and it is both easier and faster to use animals as test subjects than it is to undertake human-based research. Finally, while the FDA has often failed to show that the results of animal tests can be extrapolated to humans, companies still use animals in testing in order to protect themselves in the case of a lawsuit. This means that unreliable animal tests are giving rise to unreliable medical and pharmaceutical results, which result in unreliable treatments and medications that are themselves excused by the legal system because of the unreliable animal tests underpinning them. It is altogether a vicious circle that could be eliminated with a more sensible approach to medical and pharmaceutical research that does not involve animals at all.
https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/we-need-to-test-on-animals
There are also many effective alternatives to animal testing
Such as?
There are resources on that page. That is an area I know nothing about sadly.
Only resource i found on page that actually talk about alternative, work (dr. hadwen trust site dead, vivisectioninformation blog from 2012 and almost all linked site dead), and not video is https://aavs.org/
Alternative such as:
- Use part of slaughterhouse animal (shift animal burden onto flesh farm industry) (BCOP, ICE)
- Use method that still use animal testing but less (3T3, NHK, UDP, in vitro pyrogenicity)
- Use in vitro (lab grown) cell membrane from human cell (Corrositex, EPISKINTM, EpiDermTM) only for skin test
- Use different animal (TER, LLNA)
- Use bacteria (Ames)
Original text make seem like animal test not necessary, but cited source say nothing of that. Only Ames even vegan (if you not consider bacteria animal too).
If post thing without understand, false information spread way faster because expect poster do due diligence.
There alternatives are still harm reduction, I agree that linkrot is a real issue and that animal testing is rather neglected by most vegans. However the fact that there are alternatives to the way we do animal testing, that quite a few are due to regulatory restrictions and not necessary in the scientific sense is not false information.
I would also like to point out that this expectation of always having a well-studied understanding with sources at the ready seems to not be applied when carnists post stuff like “animal testing is necessary”, “animal ag’s impact on the climate is negligible” etc.
https://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?color=19&sort=rel&maxrows=89
A blue and white capsule could be a lot of things, I’m not sure the original image is actually supposed to be any individual drug at all
I disagree. They are very likely the worst of the industries in seeing here. Not even in just one way either.
r/woooosh
Not so sure, have you seen these comments?
Whether you’re for or against factory farms, this is funny. Dark, but funny.
There are people who are really like this, which makes it a lot less funny. Same reason you can’t satirize the American Right anymore.
Like, the whole world is burning, and we really can’t get people to stop even the easiest things. Yeah the solutions should be systemic, but everyone’s against those solutions too.
It’s like a dead baby joke, but way more dead babies and the setup is the punchline.
Can’t tell if this is commentary on moral hypocracy, really hope it is…
Don’t give industrialized ag a pass. i get why you did, but you can get bacon without Oscar mayer.
Yeah vegan bacon is great :)
I’ve had terrible experiences with vegan Bacon so far, which brand do you like?
I usually just get the store brand ones but there’s plenty of brands to try. I’m not trying to guess where you’re from to know which brands are available to you, just try them out and see which you like :)
You don’t have to guess where I’m from to tell me which ones you like.
i was just making sure you were pretending to like vegan bacon anyway.
Here’s the store brand ones in a pancake as proof
One of my ideas for slowing the rate of meat consumption: You may only buy meat if you are under the age of 18, or you have a Meat Medallion.
Medallions are obtained by successfully killing an animal over the size of a rat, on your own, with only close-ranged weaponry.
That put you off? Good! It should! Some people would still stomach it.
I’ve got a Meat Medallion 4 ur mom lol
I like the idea of having a trial to prove understanding, but it sounds like needless cruelty. Maybe a day of work in an abattoir would be better.
I mean, if you believe killing animals is needless cruelty, then…should that mean you just shouldn’t eat meat?
It was needless cruelty before you started giving out tokens for it. Now I need to go kill bunch of possums every year just so I can have dinner! You literally created extra cruelty.
Where did you read “every year”?
Why do you need to kill “a bunch” of possums instead of just one? Do you eat possum meat? Why not a chicken?
Where did you read “every year”?
You didn’t really specify how how much stuff you have to kill to get the medallions, but it sounds like a hassle, so I’d like to get them in bulk.
Do you eat possum meat? Why not a chicken?
Again, I’m not planing to eat what I kill right away, I just need the credit for later and you just said bigger than a rat. But sure, chicken works.
It sounds like you read “you must spend one medallion to purchase meat”, which isn’t what I said. I said you must “have” one. Much like you must have ID to buy liquor - but you don’t see people in line at the DMV grinding for extra drivers licenses.
I see I’m going to have to explain things multiple times to stop other commenters from hallucinating. So, again: You must have a meat medallion. Not spend it. Have. Not spend. Have. Two distinct words.
I was thinking more about amateurs trying and making a mess of things. Although modern abattoirs aren’t much better so you’re not wrong.
Fair enough. I’m on board if we also don’t allow the purchase of any plant based products to anyone who hasn’t put in a season working in the fields. If I can’t exploit Porky for meat without having skin in the game, you can’t exploit Manuel for labor without doing the same.
What’s the meat allotment per Medallion? It sounds like abstracted hunting
Infinite. Whatever you can afford with your wallet.
The point being only people who have one may buy it in restaurants/etc.
Ah, it’s more a “license” than a “token”. Then, it should expire at the end of the year.
Plenty of people will continue to take things for granted, if it’s not reinforced.
Do drivers’ licenses expire at the end of the year? Why such a short expiry?
People take things for granted now. If it’s a move in the right direction, why make it far more restrictive than it needs to be?
Even just 20% of meat eaters reconsidering their habits would be fantastic, or another 30% getting the medallion but looking at meat consumption differently as a result.
Well, driver’s licenses are certifications that you know how to drive (and also are in a location). In theory, by using your license, you are practicing and reinforcing your driving skill. It’s not really the same.
I have a squirrelly brain, prone to imagining how things go wrong. Immediately, I thought of parents guiding their children to get their medallion before the kids can really process what they’re doing, or establish their own desire to do it. By the time they’re 30, it’ll just be something they unpack if they ever take therapy.
And I’m saying this as someone who eats meat. I’m not even a vegetarian. I just agree with vegans that the way industry batch-farms animals is grotesque.
Ye nah, absolutely fuck the meet industry.
But… Mah hahmbergz!
fuck the meet industry
It all started going downhill with Zoom.
It’s amazing how hard Microsoft dropped the ball on that one.
I am still baffled by Microsofts incompetence. Skyping was literally used synonymously for video conferencing in general,
And the absolutely crazy thing is that they already have contracts with just about every university and major company.
All they had to do was read the room and reach out!
All meat eaters are evil chuds, no exceptions, they just don’t like being reminded about the demented cruelty they support.
I’m a proud vegan and even I think this is one of the most braindead takes I’ve ever seen.
“As a vegan” type comment doesn’t create credibility lmao
k
“I hAtE EvErYoNe WhO EaTs AnImAl PrOdUcTs” though? Now that shit creates loads of credibility and DEFINITELY doesn’t discredit the one saying it as an out-of-touch moron who has the emotional intelligence of an infant.
They’re right tho 🤷
Thanks for the tag request!
No clue what that is
It’s when I add a tag that appears next to your username, reminding me that your insane comments/posts come from a place that no one can relate to except this other insane jackass.
I expected something more dramatic lol
Can’t wait to have some delicious demented cruelty for lunch and dinner tonight!
Special pleading at its finest
Vegan try not to be an insufferable asshole challenge (impossible)
I think most vegans aren’t like this. This is just the effect of the Internet. The disgusting lowlifes make a lot of noise because they can.
Binary thinkers aren’t intelligent or productive members of society, they just don’t like being reminded about the lack of intelligence that they have. I’m sure someone will read your comment here and then stop eating meat lol
Not everything is about outreach. Go cry about the mean vegans while stuffing your face with someones child.
Go scream at cars driving by. Hold up posters of dead animals and tell them they did it. You will absolutely be a loved, effective, and mentally healthy person.
you’re response to “not everything is about outreach” is again belittling outreach 😄 do you understand that sometimes people (this includes vegans) just want to vent?
Says a lot that you would categorize what I wrote as “outreach” and not “a mentally unstable way of making sure no one considers veganism, ever”.
Everyone needs to vent. And yet… I don’t know how you’d possibly be surprised that the reaction to “I hate everyone because they don’t do X” is “you’re a fucking idiot and driving people away from X”
W/e justification you need for your cruelty to sleep at night is fine with me
Whatever justification you need to treat people badly and also decrease the likelihood of anyone going vegan is not fine with me. You’re toxic and your shit attitude literally hurts your cause. This attitude is a cancer that literally holds veganism back. Good job on that. I’m sure the animals that could’ve been saved if you had productive conversations would understand that it made you feel better to be a POS online.
Tl;dr don’t care about opinions of people who support cruelty. The good people don’t need to be “won over.”
You just said you don’t care if veganism becomes more popular (in fact it doesn’t matter if you make things worse) because being a judgemental piece of shit is what matters. I’m glad most vegans have actual morals and aren’t frauds like you are. Enjoy hating 99.9% of humanity, I’m sure your future therapist will agree it was healthy.
At least I’m not a cruel, vile human being like you.
Yeah… assuming you’re not lying about not being cruel like you’re lying about caring about animals, you’ve actually shown that you’re pretty vile. If only you felt better like you thought you would after spreading hatred like you’ve done here… I’m sure you’re exactly as miserable now as you were before, if not more so. Have the day you deserve, fraud.
no, every meat eater eats it to piss you off specifically.
my comment was non intended to be serious :3
Ah lol hard to tell within this cacophony of carnist tears sorry
carnist tears
“I think people who ‘deserve’ my favorite insults ought to man up”
Sounds like a very “vegan” thing to say /s
Sarcastic because most vegans aren’t insane, but are instead reasonable people who can articulate their views without projecting a burning hatred upon most of their species, and who also understand the concept of empathy directed at other humans.
“I think people who ‘deserve’ my favorite insults ought to man up”
nothing unmanly about crying. I’d rather say that the people that get their feelings hurt by this should “own up” to the hurt they cause.
Hmm interesting because if you weren’t being derisive I’m not sure why you brought up the “tears” . Probably would pay to consider “carnists” deserving of a thoughtful conversation rather than support a burning hatred (which clearly is counter productive on top of not actually making any vegan feel better)
Vegan bacon has become really fine though.
I’m literally about to go cook some regular bacon right now, but this is completely true in my book. I’ve had some pretty good vegan bacon before, but I don’t know what brand it was.
Just eating it by itself was only like mostly still pretty good in my book, but on a BLT or inside some pancakes, I’d be completely fine just switching. Actually, I’m gonna try to find out what kind it was.
Edit: It was MorningStar Farms veggie bacon. To anyone that thinks all vegan bacon is trash, I’d recommend you give it a try
The Billie Green Bacon is so tasty! Never saw a Problem with Vegan Bacon. Since I’m Vegan I instantly found that, and eat that since then. Was it shit for a long time?
no it hasn’t
Yes it has.
prove it
Here, taste it.
What’s the name of this product and what’s in it?
There are different brands, I don’t know where you are and what you can get.
Alright, well any tips would be appreciated whether directly useful or not
My personal favourite so far is Billie Green. Looks the part, tastes the part, gets crunchy in a pan but when you fry it you shouldn’t wait too long before eating or it it gets hard.
Interesting. Seems like it’s largely gluten based. Maybe I can find something comparable in the US. Thanks
This comrade has good taste ☝️
What the fuck. We can do without factory farming!
I… Want a randomizer for this. Add in like, half a dozen random retail brands, software companies, car makers… Just hit a button and they’re placed in there at random.
