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I really dislike questions like this. I’m just ND enough where I get both sides of the question and it’s almost immobilizing. What do they actually want? I gotta overthink this.
No people don’t tell me, but I get what they might say, even though it’s not what another person would say, it’s actually asking me about myself.
Who tf writes questions like this?
I only got “on the spectrum” when I was 17 on one of these tests because of that. Turns out if you answer the question with “what did the NT have in mind / how would they answer in my situations” got me a much higher score.
Me raving about why people ask you how are if they don’t want an answer 🙃
Also if I have a cake, I’m going to eat it too. If I can’t have my cake AND eat it too I don’t want a damn cake! 🎂 I always just think of a kid sadly watching their cake knowing they’re not allowed to eat it 😭😭😭😅
You can’t eat your cake and have it too. They just flip the saying because it sound better the other way around. But the core idea is that once you eat the cake it’s gone; a cake is both a decoration and a dessert, but the utility of one destroys the other.
Yesss! Same problem with other tests like ADHD: questions are like “so you often get up and walk around the room in unfitting situations?”
I mean I have the urge but I learned to mask for my while life. Obvs I’m not DOING it, I just have the string urge and stopping me takes up all my attention. But that’s not part of the question?
This goes hand-in-hand with the questions where I’m like, “Well, I did that a lot as a child, but I don’t do it anymore now.” It’d be nice if the tests provided clarification at the top to indicate if we’re supposed to respond “yes” to things that we used to do. Considering that childhood behaviors give more clues than adult ones, it makes sense to answer from the past. But at the same time, the test is using the present tense, so to be technically correct I should answer with what I do today. Right? Maybe they should say, “Do you, or have you ever, done blah blah blah?” The fact that this stuff isn’t spelled out goes to show that neurotypicals designed these things.
I imagine that having a big ol’, multi-paragraph explanation of these sorts of details might end up skipped by NTs, which maybe plays part in why these tests don’t bother with that - designers are seeing it from the NT angle. However, I don’t imagine such a text would scare off autistic people - more information to help us navigate an important, novel task? Yes, please! I will read that wall of text as if my life depended on it, because the ambiguous questions leave me stuck far longer than they probably should and any additional clarification would be welcome.
At the very least, maybe the laziest way (from the designers’ standpoint) to resolve this, would be to include optional “additional information” boxes so we can relieve these anxieties by explaining the conditional nature of some of our answers. Yeah, a simple scale is easier for documentation and diagnosis, but that sort of simplicity doesn’t track with how brains (and many things) actually work. Humans are complicated. Neurodiversity is complicated. Anything related to mental health at all is complicated. Perhaps we shouldn’t be looking for the simplest route to understanding each others’ brains, but the route that more accurately conveys our brains’ nuanced topography.
I am fascinated to try to imagine what an autism test developed by an autistic autism researcher would be like. I suspect it would be a wild ride.
“Would you like spend the next eight hours discussing my extensive collection of model trains?”
“If you were to hand write a complete description of the texture of your least favorite food, how many pages of paper would be required?”
One of the tests I did for my assessment did actually have multiple options like that! “Only when I was a child” “only as an adult” “as a child and an adult”, not exact wording but the answers were to to that effect!
Yes, this! Masking isn’t considered in a lot of these questions. Especially when it’s like “have other people told you that you do this thing”. No they haven’t but yes I do do that thing but I know it’s looked down on so I internalize it and nobody can see I do the thing! Why is this about what others can see?
I hate multiple choice, I always want to scribble “depends on circumstances” answer 😂 am I alone, or with someone I trust, a complete stranger, another country, a medical setting? It all changes the answer!
Oh this is a huge problem in autism tests too ! “Unfitting/Inappropriate situations” : Buddy, if I knew when the situation was not appropriate for this, I basically wouldn’t be autistic 🤣
Would you be ok to share a link of that kind of adhd test ?
Adult ADHD Self-Report Scale (ASRS), is the one I used . It’s important to know that this isn’t any “test”. It’s just a screening tool that helps when used in dialogue with a health professional. This post in question showing why that is important.
Other comment is correct: I was referring to the ASRS self screening for adults developed by the WHO. This is only meant to give you an indicator if you should talk to a health professional, not a diagnosis.
I think the ability to “mask” weighs somewhat against a diagnosis.
Like with annoyance and concerted effort I can sit still when it is absolutely critical. However I still get up and walk around in unfitting situations, often without realizing I am. Until someone mentions how weird it is. Or mentions they would prefer I keep knives out of my reach because they are scared when I start flipping one around and give me some safer “toy” to fidget with in trade.
A lot of these are things most folks are inclined to do., but the inability to control is the thing, not the urge in the first place.
The fact that you have to mask something in a situation like that is the point, not the severity. You may mean well, but you’re gatekeeping mental health issues by saying “if you are still able to control yourself, you are not sick enough”. That is something that still prevents a lot of people from getting the help they need.
There’s a balance to be struck.
People with entirely normal urges think they are somehow divergent, because they see others act on urges and people make it clear that was “weird” for the urge to be acted out and mistake having the urge for being the “weird” thing rather than the expression.
I want to get up and walk around and listening to this person talking is a waste of my time. That’s a perfectly normal urge. The inability to either supress the urge, or the inability to recognize it as a problematic social interaction when it would be, that’s where problems come in.
I think that’s the appropriate answer
Yeah, it is. A major part of an autism diagnosis is how others perceive you. For example, as a neurodevelopmental disorder, bringing in people who knew you as a child to describe how you behaved is heavily emphasized in adult diagnoses. If they wanted to know what you think of yourself, they would’ve asked that.
People tend to not be super honest about your perceived negative qualities because it’s considered impolite. If the doctor or whoever wants to know what people around me think of me, it needs to be given to those people as an anonymous poll.
it needs to be given to those people as an anonymous poll
You know exactly why this is a stupid, impractical idea. Yes, that’s “better”. The question in the OP is being filtered not only through what others actively say to you but also the extent to which you weigh those remarks. I understand that. Everyone here understands that.
No neuropsychologist is going to be anonymously polling a representative sample of people you interact with. At best they’ll get a couple family members/caretakers (sometimes a teacher if the person is still in e.g. elementary school) to describe how you present to them. The purpose of questions like this isn’t to hinge your entire diagnosis upon them; it’s to get a bunch of data points and see how they cluster. It doesn’t, therefore, have to be nearly as ridiculously strict as you’re suggesting.
Here’s the autism-spectrum quotient if you’re curious what a real self-response questionnaire looks like. As an example of this style of question: “Other people frequently tell me that what I’ve said is impolite, even though I think it is polite.”
is there a test like this for adhd ?
Just to clarify: the AQ isn’t a test for determining on its own that someone is or isn’t autistic. It’s (potentially) one part of a larger assessment.
For ADHD, the ADHD-RS-5 is the most popular structured questionnaire I know of, but much of ADHD screening is less about questionnaires and more about cognitive testing and interviews like DIVA-5.
People also tend not to be very observant or, especially with parents, they have thrown their head in the sand. “No no you are/were a totally normal child”.
That was my parents. “Weird” or “not normal” was bad so the reassurance was always that I was normal. Meanwhile my sister: yeah but remember how she used to watch that one DVD every single day for a year? And she read the same 5 books over and over while she ate the same breakfast every day even when you bought new books? And how you had to stock pile that cereal because if there wasn’t any, she wouldn’t eat anything because that cereal was breakfast and afternoon tea and sometimes dinner." 😂
My assessment involved a couple of hours of talking to my folks and my dad finally reading the end report just said “how did we miss this” 😢
So if no one interacted with you because you’re weird, you’re not autistic, got it
Or if only people that could tolerate your your literalness because they themselves were at the same level interacted with you, you’re not autistic
(I understand that it’s just one question of many, but yes, it definitely doesn’t need to be an indicator of excessive literalness)
But they didn’t ask how people perceive you.
They asked what people tell you about their perception of you.
Well, yes, because there’s imperfect data. I said that others’ perception of you is important, and the extent to which they remark on that is a proxy. Do I really need to explain the concept that you can’t read minds or gather a representative sample of people in your life into a neuropsychologist’s office and thus what people tell you is the closest proxy?
For a post about taking things too literally instead of putting words in someone else’s mouth, you’re ironically putting words in my mouth instead of taking what I’m saying literally.
I didn’t sense any hostility in OP’s reply. It sounds like they’re referring to the test, stating its own directions. They’re not making any claims about it, or expressing a lack of understanding, let alone putting words in anyone’s mouth?
You’re right, witnesses to our childhood are important for adult diagnoses. The issue OP’s referring to isn’t whether or not others’ perceptions should be part of the picture, but rather that the wording of many autism tests (such as the one in the post) ask a question that depends on you recalling what others have perceived about you. The test I took didn’t use “say,” instead some questions expected me to somehow know what others think about me. These sorts of questions are kind of twisted to ask an autistic person, since it requires a recursive practice of the social skills we famously struggle with.
Bringing in people from childhood would be far more sensible. However, many of those seeking a diagnosis aren’t going to be brought down that route, as the first thing we’re given is this type of questionnaire. After that, the psych interviews us. I can’t speak for all, but for me that’s all I was given.
No, of course not. They choose less kind words to express that.
🫠
After asking for clarifications about the exact meaning of a question for the 20th time, I think my therapist was already decided about my diagnosis, even before we finished with the rest of the tests.
The real test is taking the test
How likely are you to recommend our product to your friends?
Extremely unlikely, because I just dont talk about random products to my friends…
We once had a great argument at work between HR and a senior developer, who didn’t have friends and if he had, prefered them to not work at the same company, hence answering straight 0 to how likely he would recommend the employer to his friends. He absolutely enjoyed working there nevertheless.
Haha yeah, I am on the workforce going on three decades, and no way I’d mix work and play.
Few years back my employer tried to start a local tech conference. All of us got invite codes, “50% off for your friends”. If you had a certain number of referrals you’d get a cash bonus on top, dont remember how much, couple hundred bucks. I passed that code on exactly zero times, because of course I wouldn’t ask my friends to spend money and obvs for me that was a work event. Why would I want my private circle there?
I’ve brought on two friends to my current job because they were in desperate situations. One of them has been ok to work with but complains all the time. The other one pissed me off so bad after three weeks that our argument (this was like the third verbal argument) was very nearly a fistfight. I knew it was gonna be like this. Better than having my friends living on the street.
Exactly, that would be a hard pass from me too haha
Omg so quirky! I might be autistic!
These tests are so bad for this reason.
There’s a lot of questions that are like “do you know how to socialize” and I’ll sometimes get extrovert because obviously yes. The question should really be “do you want to” or “do you enjoy”.
Overthinking multiple choice questions, stressing about all the ways in which the answers could be ambiguous, and considering the intention of each question and how it fails to adequately address the thing that it’s attempting to.
Yeah, that tracks…
Do neurotypicals really not consider such things? I feel like anything I ever say I think through a million different ways it might be taken.
Personally, I assume the receptor will interpret the message in the best way possible. It’s hardly at all possible to say something that can’t be taken the wrong way if the receptor is keen on starting a fight.
I guess I always assume the worst and try to preface things to get ahead of incorrect interpretations lol
Do neurotypicals really not consider such things?
I wouldn’t know.
I feel like anything I ever say I think through a million different ways it might be taken.
Same, and often I’m still blindsided by the way it ends up getting taken. What’s worse is that my mitigating steps get mistaken even worse!
Same, and often I’m still blindsided by the way it ends up getting taken. What’s worse is that my mitigating steps get mistaken even worse!
Absolutely way too true haha
We consider it, but briefly, as our brain throwing it out as irrelevant and out of context.
That comes from a lifetime of being misinterpreted. If everything you say from when you’re a teen until your late twenties gets taken in a million different ways other than that you intended, you start to over analyze the response to every question you give, you need to be able to anticipate every way that neurotypicals will misunderstand you and mitigate against it.
And no, neurotypicals do not consider such things, because that experience rarely if ever happens to them.
Is there a study beyond confirmation bias that shows this? Not being offensive, I’d just love to read it.
you need to be able to anticipate every way that neurotypicals will misunderstand you and mitigate against it.
How NT manage to understand each other?
My best guess is that they have a secret code that they all somehow intuitively understand. I must have missed the class where you learn that code…
A lot of tests are simply worded poorly.
You’d be great mathematician… Or at least math test solver
OOPs initial instinct was correct. You’re supposed to answer truthfully based on your actual observed experiences, not answer questions about others’ assessments your behavior with your own internal assessment of that behavior. Overthinking surveys can skew answers inappropriately.
I think overthinking on surveys might have a correlation with autism
Maybe there should be another two questions to every question:
A- How much time did you take to think about the answer this question?
B- Which was the other answer you were considering chosing?
This wasn’t a test for any kind of neurodivergence, but on a test for a job many years ago I was presented with the question “would you ever think about taking money from the cash register?”
So… Clearly the answer they wanted was “no”, right? But the act of reading and understanding the question requires you to think about taking money from the cash register! Even if just to reject the idea.
I answered “yes” thinking I was so clever for spotting their trick question. Turns out that was not their intent and I grossly over thought it.
I did not get the job.
also, like, how else are you going to give change
Or do the count at the end of the night?
You must only put money into the magic box
There’s another layer to this:
First layer is “the question is about whether or not you’ll steal”.
Second layer is “the question is worded in such a way that yes is the only truthful answer”.
Third layer is “will you lie anyways to protect yourself and your job?”. Like guessing that the manager would rather deal with liars on their staff than people who might blab about shit that can get the manager in trouble. They want people who will prioritize the job over following labour laws to the letter.
The answer is obviously yes. You have to give change.
If you’re working a cash register they probably don’t want people who think too deeply either. It’s sort of like that famous case where the police department refused to hire people with high or low IQs
Turns out that was not their intent and I grossly over thought it.
Yeah, I fell for this when I was just starting out job hunting. It’s basically a “is this your first time taking an employment test?” Test, because it’s very clear they just want you to lie to them once you realize what answers are failing.
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