You must log in or register to comment.
Where’s my Lemming who wants to argue all the information is in the article and if people only focus on the headline they’re stupid?
It may well have been their own faulty missile falling back to the ground.
I wouldn’t put it past them for a second to claim that.
‘What if the school kids killed themselves’? Calm down, there aren’t any board positions on the NYT open now.
I’ve seen that claimed along with a picture.
With AI bullshit and propaganda machines how they are, that’s probably bollocks, and in any case it doesn’t make a hundred kids any less dead.
Especially with how fond of AI altered images and videos this US regime is.
They don’t need to be when they have the support of the moneyed interests all they care about is profit.
It must be in their style guide that Israel is always good lol
Iran doesn’t allow any information out of the country besides their own state controlled media.
There are lots of reporters in Israel from all over the world that can verify or falsify stuff happening there.
Not to say there isn’t any farming happening, but this example doesn’t work for showing that.
Whilst NYT might not be Nazi, this is just how they worked the majority of the German population at that time. It starts light.
wait wut, the nyt (or any of our media rags) is a fucking propaganda pos? Is their a pikachu were he looks at you like you are fucking dumbass and he can believe you didnt know?
Today’s lucky 10,000 would still benefit from learning about the media like this.
Same here: https://lemmy.world/post/43760793
US fighter jets “crashed”, " falling from the sky" and “collision”. Pure framing bullshit! Like they were out of fuel or something.
Kuwait blasted them! By accident. That was already confirmed and stated.
I know it’s very, very cliche to mention Manufacturing Consent these days, but anyone who hasn’t read it really should get ahold of a copy and at least read the first 2 or 3 chapters.
Since Chomsky turned out to be Epstein’s buddy and Michael Parenti died earlier this year, I’ll shamelessly plug his book Inventing Reality: The Politics of News Media instead. However, I believe the good parts of Manufacturing Consent weren’t even written by Chomsky, I’m not trying to disavow the book itself.
I’ve never read the Parenti book. Thanks for the recommendation.
Pretty heartbreaking about Chomsky and Epstein. But, you’re right about Manufacturing Consent. Actually, Chomsky wasn’t much more than an editor. All of the key concepts and the methodology were Herman’s. Sure, the book wouldn’t have been so popular without Chomsky’s participation, but Herman could have written the book on his own, no question.
Never heard of it. Tell me why?
Like its title suggests, it delves into the ways in which popular consent is manufactured via the media (at the time - 1988 - mostly print, radio, and television). It’s thoroughly convincing and is that rare type of book that can discuss research without alienating casual readers. Highly recommended.
It’s pretty easy to determine the one who shot that missile into Israel. It is not as clear who blew up the school in Iran, and the headline would be quite uncertain to state “either American or Israeli”.
Additionally, it is relatively easy for the NYT to verify the news in Israel, so it is not a “claim”, whereas they cannot easily verify the news in Iran.
How is it easy to verify claims in Israel when they lockdown areas, censor their own media, and assassinate journalists and their families who report on Israeli genocide? Israel does not have a more free press than Iran does.
and the headline would be quite uncertain to state “either American or Israeli”.
Would it be quite uncertain?
Yes, it would be more uncertain. It is better to provide less information than wrong information.
Dozens killed in strike on Iranian girl’s school.
Then the next line mentions uncertainty as to whether or not it was Israel or the US, but it was clearly one of them.
The NYT can verify that ‘dozens were killed’ there just as easily as in the other story.
I have no idea why you don’t think they have access to Reuters or the AP, who both verified that part quite quickly.
https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idRW953528022026RP1/
Oh hey look, Reuters basically came up with the same headline that I did.
Except that they also attribute blame to Israel.
In summary, you’re completely wrong.
NYT article was first recorded on wayback machine at 18.29 on Feb 28th.
AP article posted March 1st
Unclear what time Reuters video posted, nor if the title was changed at any point. Note Reuters state “Eyewitness video released on Saturday (February 28) showed black smoke billowing from a destroyed school building in the Iranian town of Minab, where at least 40 people were killed in an Israeli airstrike, state media said. Reuters could not independently confirm the reports.” - Reuters have chosen to copy the claim from Iranian state med but have put a major disclaimer.
It is invalid to compare the NYT and AP articles, as the situation developed rapidly.
No, you’re missing the point.
The NYT doesn’t have reporters on the ground everywhere, so they use wire services, Reuters, AP, others, who actually do, when something big happens out of their direct coverage network.
This is extremely common and has been the norm for reporting and journalism for decades, for print services that don’t have a televised reporting set up.
The point remains that it would be very easy to attribute blame in the headline, if they wanted to.
Because all these outlets know they exist in a world where 95% of people only read headlines.
The headline is supposed to be the hook.
A wishy washy, vague headline is an intentionally bad hook.
Reuters was confident enough in the reports that couldn’t be verified to lead with it.
The NYT on the other hand has basically been continuously shown to be basically just operating under a CIA editorial board 10-20 years after high level employees retire, since basically the 1970s.
Moreover, the NYT has a literally scholarly documented history of pro-Israeli bias:
But but but MBFC rates them as highly factual and left-center bias!! How could they ever do a war hawk??
-the most credulous jackasses on the planet
Neither Israel nor the US took credit for the strike that hit the school so this could be a matter of genuinely not knowing which of the two was responsible.
The US military’s Central Command (Centcom) said it was looking into reports of the incident, while Israel’s military said it was “not aware” of any IDF operations in the area.
Someone knows which missile it was. They don’t just mix in missiles on the same target, it was either an Israeli strike or an American, and whoever fired it knows.
I hadn’t seen those responses yet, but I’d say the gap between those two messages makes it fairly clear this was an American missile.
I know the people in charge are beyond incompetent but I imagine that the US military knows exactly where every last one of their 6-7 figure missiles went. That doesn’t mean we ever will.
The US Military as a whole might, but Captain Mediatrained they have answering questions might not know or might not be able to get thag info.
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
deleted by creator
It’s “quite easy to understand” because that’s how the Dunning–Kruger effect works: the less you know, the more simplistic your understanding of a system, and the easier it is to confidently make bullshit claims and pretend you know what you’re talking about.
deleted by creator
it’s nice that you know the names of two renowned psychologists.
The painfully unearned smarm almost masks the way you have no idea how any of this works and just want to manufacture a reason to be mad at the NYT’s coverage of the Middle East – coverage that already has a million provable things to be mad at (of which that link is just a small sample). You’re trying to perform alchemy in a fucking gold mine, and it’s baffling.
deleted by creator
“Please explain it to me. Not the actual thing we’re talking about, because I actually don’t care to consider why I might be wrong, but about this batshit strawman argument I created.”
Checking off all the boxes. If you want to talk to someone who’s whatever you tell them they are, then fuck off to ChatGPT, you clown.
So, to recap, this thread started with a passive-aggressive accusation, you backed it up with another passive-aggressive comment, somebody responded to you, and then you got mad at them for being angry about the wrong thing (without, y’know, actually saying what they should be mad about!)
Why not just state your opinion? Why all this beating around the bush?
We don’t need to manufacture grievance to criticize our government and institutions. In fact, it weakens our case when we do so.
The top comment outlines some very reasonable explanations for the difference in phrasing between the two headlines. If you’re always assuming the worst possible motivations, people aren’t going to take you seriously.
If you’re always assuming the worst possible motivations, people aren’t going to take you seriously.
When it comes to corporate news sewers, you’re barking in the wrong toilet.
I’m sure the newspaper that cheerleaded us into the Iraq war and is owned by a board of billionaires is following only the strictest code of ethics when it comes to reporting on American warmongering.
Oh you did it again! You assumed the worst possible motivations!
Waaaaahhhhh! Just because it’s true! Waaaaahhhhhhh
Right?! It’s so uncivil and making unfair assumptions to point out that the newspaper with a history of war hawking and downplaying fascism dating literally back to Hitler isn’t trustworthy on the subject of war and fascism 😢
The poor innocent independent newspaper that promoted illegal wars before, look they said they changed. Just don’t ask if it was for the better.
If you’re always assuming the worst possible motivations, people aren’t going to take you seriously.
You’re talking about motivations? Seriously? These mother fuckers have done so much worse than this and it’s us that shouldn’t be taken seriously?
Why don’t you crawl up that ass of yours a little more.
it weakens our case when we do so.
What case? When have you cowards have held your government responsible for any of unprovoked attacks, invasion, regime changes, massacre abroad?
That boot must taste really good, huh?
The idea that somebody else might not take the same, obviously bad faith interpretation of a pair of headlines worked you up into that much of a lather?
deleted by creator
What are you doing to stop fascism in your country?
deleted by creator
Says the person who screams and insults, “Do something!” all while probably not even a US citizen and gives no advice.
How dare you run defense for the imperialist americans?
We don’t need to manufacture grievance to criticize our government and institutions. In fact, it weakens our case when we do so.
said as if the government has ever been held accountable…
people aren’t going to take you seriously.
apologists are never taken seriously
Look we don’t know if we’re evil but we are very certain that Iran is incredibly based
What this reads like to me
Reminds me of a thread on Reddit of photos of Israeli missiles stuck in civilian buildings (apartment blocks). People asking where it was from and not one comment stating it was a Syrian city and where the missiles came from.
Treat everything you see as unconfirmed, no mater if it is for or against your beliefs. Manipulation is everywhere.
