I fight for managed democracy
Truly Managed Democracy is a mellifluous clarion, ringing throughout the galaxy
I dont have a house or a retirement to fight for.
Actually, this is what you’re fighting for in Capitalism:
Not for yourself, though, rather for a few who add up to less than 0.0000375% of Humanity.
Weren’t they going to build a 5-mile wide boat that looked like a turtle. Where’s that, I’m fighting for that.
Look man, I’m all for criticisms of capitalism, but stuff like this ain’t gonna cut it…
Yes because communist countries have ellegant urban planning 🤡
That can literally be the US with roads 2 miles wide
Bro this could be literally any large east-Asian city on an overcast day, most (all?) of which have better urban planning than the rest of the world by a large margin, and most of which fall firmly on the “capitalist” side of the spectrum. “Bloc” housing (or as we call them over here, big-ass apartment buildings) aren’t some communist-exclusive phenomenon.
Not sure about this picture, but generally Soviet blocs were built with lots of surrounding green space, all the amenities you’d need within walking distance, and the rest of the city connected by public transport. Way more human-friendly than the US suburban hellscape.
Westoids think bloc housing is uglier than homelessness.
If only there were more than these two dreary instantiations of differing economic frameworks, but as alas, I know only of these two pictures.
This is the kind of socialist hellscape the capitalist is protecting us from.
Edit: Dense mixed used urban development, biking to work, walking to your nearest weekly market, buying unprocessed food for groceries and common public area easily accessible by foot for old people where they can mix with other generations.
All these pictures are from capitalist countries
What City is this?
It looks like it was taken from the tower in Crest, France, but I might be wrong
It is, it’s a great place to visit or live in.
Image search says you’re right. Looks idyllic
That’s actually Chess, a board game that came out several years ago.
Hmm but what if I want to make thousands of people work for me without giving any excess value created by their labour to anyone else?
Urban sprawl, car dependency, vinyl rubbish, famine pensions.
Don’t you miss:
In Yugoslavia it was actually quite the opposite. Old commie blocks in Serbia all have big green spaces around them and playgrounds, while new buildings are all built on top of each other with no room to breathe and no greenery in sight.
There are many reasons to dislike the communist regimes in Eastern Europe, but these tenements are not it. Quite a lot of people prefer to buy these sorts of apartments over newer ones simply because they are built better. Keep in mind that those in these sorts of pictures haven’t been properly maintained in years. They are 40-50 years old, it’s normal for any building that has not been taken care of to look worn down - but if the owners of these apartments put in the effort to modernise their buildings, they are very comfortable. I live in one and it’s great!
Road of Bones:
Oh, and sad old folks:
(Sorry, the app I use limits images per posts. Devs are good people, so I gladly endure the inefficiency!)
Oh, wait! I know this one!!
No, it isn’t.
I’m curious. What would a “communist” utopia look like?
Where’s the Curly Wurlies?
Yeah, I’d assume we’d think it would be like star trek. But it would be radical to surf solar flares out in space.
Solarpunk
Why would you go immediately to communism?
Here you go: https://youtu.be/PaASqPnpq5Y
I would consider communism of some sort to be the ideal and the direction we should strive for. It doesn’t have to be communism but I’ve always wondered what a purely stateless and classless society would look like. It’s just hard for me to imagine, being the animals that we are, imbibing such a society
Bottom right pic hits hard. I plan to die in some fashion long before that. Fuck planning or saving for retirement if it doesn’t matter.
In other news, Denmark raised their retirement age to 70 recently, and our conservatives in the US have been squawking about the same. LOL.
What the fuck is the point of this shit existence for anyone who can’t become rich as a celebrity or wall street psycho? 90% of us are just here so the wealthy can have yachts, Lamborghinis, and mansions.
This place sucks.
The right wing party in Australia (a few elections ago) increased retirement age but with a “rolling date”. Meaning they all get to retire on time with the earlier date but the later you were born the later your retirement age. They literally set their retirement age in stone then fucked younger generations on their way out. It’s still currently rolling out, recently increased to 67 in 2023.
(In more ways than one bit this one is particularly obvious and idk how they got away with it).
It’s so odd how much hate pop figures get, from people whose apartments are filled with anime posters and figures
My main problem is that they are all driven by fomo, they are ugly as sin, they are not handed over to the next generation, people don’t even inpack them. All they are is future landfill.
I’m not into anime but I definitely think Funko pops are hideous and not cute at all
As a millennial I know what it’s like to take comfort from something that is crass commercial, and ultimately bad for the environment (looks guiltily over at Switch)…
I share your perspective, but I’m not sure how to get people to see how to do better, because I myself am manipulated by similar forces, yet all I do is grumble about it as I fork over my money for the latest so the company can sell me little bits of the wonder I felt as a child back to me.
I don’t even blame them. It’s a big circle and I’m part of it.
PS. Sorry I wrote this as the caffeine was just kicking into higher great. It might be a bit much.
I don’t really rag on people who collect them as I see the appeal in collecting stuff - I was just commenting on them aesthetically.
Very few things make me feel as disconnected from popular opinion as Funko pops. I just don’t see the appeal AT ALL when there’s a ton of cuter and/or nicer, cooler, etc figures on the market. Why does the ugly ones sell the best? Or is it actually not ugly and my perspective is wrong?? I don’t know
“You don’t like this thing, yet you do like this other, different thing that falls into a vaguely same broad category. Curious.”
In general, I think it comes down to the fact that they all just look low effort. They’re formulaic, which to someone who puts out passionate art, it’s kind of just insulting.
And as much as I hate to say it, that’s all preference. I don’t personally think they’re “wrong” or “not art”. Just not very well done or original.
well and they’ll all end up in landfill eventually.
I kinda hate this pic.
- There are worse fates than living in the suburbs, lol, what? If the experience seems bland remember it’s not an infrastructure ‘problem’ but a demographics one. And bland beats ghetto -> warzone.
- You can easily opt out of consumerism, they haven’t made it illegal yet! Of course, if your life has mostly just consisted of ‘going from little kids’ toys to bigger boi toys’, that’s vacuous and depressing but, again, it’s a personal decision.
- Car-centric cities and infrastructure is a result of greed and bribes. An argument can be made that capitalist societies more easily push people into antisocial selfishness though, of course.
- Retirement homes are, again, a ‘skill issue’ that’s very prevalent in certain well known communities and almost nonexistent everywhere else. Raise and love your kids and be family oriented and one of them will take care of you (as it happened to my grandma, and it’ll happen to my mom and MIL, and I assume, God willing, to my wife after my passing). Again, I don’t know how much of this behaviour can be ascribed to capitalism.
There are worse fates than living in the suburbs
Not for the bees.
That’s a very real concern, you’re right. Muad’dib, Muad’dib!
Also, there’s no way I’ll be able to provide for my parents. I’m broke and the economy isn’t going to get better until the communists dismantle the government. They’re going to be rotting in the old folks home using up the retirement savings they’re lucky enough to have. We don’t have those these days.
In my country, one of the children houses them (usually just the remaining one, which in my family and maybe in general happens to be the mom) and the others pool resources to contribute. Sometimes a nurse comes. It has to be cheaper than retirement homes, right? Idk, and it’s not an easy convo to have even just between us if you have a good relationship with your parents cause reality can be cruel… but if you don’t and it’s deserved then I guess that’s life!
No, but It beats communism any day of the week.
Why are those the only options in everyone’s head. China is a mercantilist nation. Why is it capitalism vs communism and no one talking about how Chinese classic mercantilism seems to be doing pretty OK right now.
Why are those the only options in everyone’s head. China is a mercantilist nation. Why is it capitalism vs communism and no one talking about how Chinese classic mercantilism seems to be doing pretty OK right now.
Jesus fucking Christ.
No, China is very much a capitalist country.
No, capitalism doesn’t have state control.
No, capitalism doesn’t have state control.
Jesus fucking Christ.
That’s what mercantilism is. A promotion of trade with state control. Which is different than the free hand of capitalism.
That’s just spicy capitalism
Is it? I mean it’s clearly working well enough that the other capitalist nations are saying their capitalism is unfair. But really it’s a totally different system, and we’re not going to understand it if we just call it capitalism with Chinese characteristics.
China doesn’t even allow its citizens to freely discuss their opinions on its historical military operations.
So unless you only mean they are doing pretty OK by a financial standard, that is NOT okay from the perspective of a citizen that would like to publicly say that do not support what happened at Tiananmen Square, The Great Leap Forward, and other “speak-nots”
They are essentially exempt from even being considered as examples.
Do you know what mercantilism is and why it’s working well for China? Nothing you said has anything to do with mercantilism.
Do you always insert irrelevant shit into discussions to distract from the topic?
The discussion is how both communism and capitalism are ineffective forms of socioeconomic policy and that both seem to only benefit those that enforce them.
China won’t even be considered until its citizens are free to disagree with their current dictator. So for now it’s:
• Capitalism/Communism
• everything else
•
•
•
• China.I’m talking about mercantilism. China just happens to be the biggest country that does it. Just like the US is the biggest one doing capitalism. Communism isn’t really even on the board so not sure why people like you keep bringing it up.
Okay. Well. When someone posts about mercantilism, you’re free to discuss it there. But injecting it into a discussion specifically about capitalism vs communism?
But injecting it into a discussion specifically about capitalism vs communism?
A hugely ironic comment from the person who injected talk about communism into a discussion of capitalism.
Because in the modern world it’s really a competition between capitalism and mercantilism, and self congratulating the capitalist nations on beating communism seems like masturbation to me.
Humanist Democratic Socialism does. Communitarianism might also.
… actually there’s probably forms of Distributism, that might. Just depends on whether we’re talking classic Communism with a one party centrally planned command economy (which is how a lot of people interpret the term still).
Communism is just too broad an idea to agree to blindly, it could be referring to anything from a small scale communal farming co-op to a one party Authoritarian system.
You’ll have to be more specific.
Cool. Provide an example of a fully functional and prosperous- communistic society that doesn’t have some form or capitalism embedded into its socioeconomic fabric.
Oh, and while you’re at it, professor-
Provide documentation on how changing America into this communistic system will work from the ground up.
Because I don’t woke with myth and pretending. I don’t do fanciful what-if scenarios. I live in the real world.
Cool. Provide an example of a fully functional and prosperous- communistic society that doesn’t have some form or capitalism embedded into its socioeconomic fabric.
Could you provide an example of a fully functional and prosperous capitalist society that doesn’t have some form of socialism embedded into its socioeconomic fabric?
You’re asking for a ‘clean’ delineation that doesn’t exist in the real world, not just for the system you oppose, but also for the one you accept as ‘normal’ and functional.
Could you provide an example of a fully functional and prosperous capitalist society that doesn’t have some form of socialism embedded into its socioeconomic fabric?
No. Bust I’m not claiming such a thing exists either.
No. Bust I’m not claiming such a thing exists either.
You made that comment in response to:
Humanist Democratic Socialism does. Communitarianism might also.
… actually there’s probably forms of Distributism, that might. Just depends on whether we’re talking classic Communism with a one party centrally planned command economy (which is how a lot of people interpret the term still).
Communism is just too broad an idea to agree to blindly, it could be referring to anything from a small scale communal farming co-op to a one party Authoritarian system.
You’ll have to be more specific.
I don’t see where that claims anything about the purity of any given system. In fact, all it does is ask for “What definition of communism are you using?”
I said capitalism is at least better than communism. Everything else is words written for me.
I said capitalism is at least better than communism. Everything else is words written for me.
To be precise, you demanded an example of a ‘pure’ system that the original commenter made no pretensions of supporting, and when called out, you objected that you weren’t the one claiming that such a system existed, implying that the other commenter was (which is demonstrably untrue).
Not my argument, but I just wanna pop in and say I think a more perfect system -would- be a blending of capitalism and socialism. Something where you have to work to enjoy a certain “level” of lifestyle, but not to survive.
Right. We ALL could make up a perfect system to live under. And we can make that system as realistic as we can so that others can join the dream with little concern or unanswered questions-
But unfortunately, we still have to live in the real world when the dram is over.
No one’s arguing with you on that. You’re saying communism and socialism are bad when your problem as described by -you- is with Authoritarianism.
You say that Communism and Socialism are Authoritarianism, which shows me that you don’t understand what those terms mean.
You accuse others of living in a dream… Some of the most celebrated people in history are the dreamers. Maybe check your own cup for the Kool-Aid.
lol…
Really? That’s it? How disappointing…
You really just don’t know how to handle other people disagreeing with you without being an enormous cunt, huh?
ROFL! The irony.
I simply disagreed and then issued a counter argument, and now I’m accused of not knowing how to handle someone disagreeing with me?
This is why people don’t take you seriously. Grow up and learn how adult disagree. Then learn how not let this hurt you personally.
If you want to REALLY reduce the definition of communism down to its most concentrated form, “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need”, then not only is communism a successful system, it is the only reason our species exists today.
What -is- communism to you?
The illusion of a working system of communism is only believed by those who fall for the hype and pageantry made possible by those who stand to benefit from it. In this, it is every bit the same as it is for those that preach the glory of capitalism.
Think about it. Who is always trying to tell us that capitalism is our best option? Idiot Conservatives who have been brainwashed by their party, and those that run the party. And at the end of the day, what are those that benefit from the conservative party about?
Controlling the narrative to control the people.
And who is always trying to tell us that communism/socialism (forms of government that have failed time and again in other countries with a smaller population and GDP) is our best option, despite warnings from economists saying it will fail? Idiot communist kids that don’t know how shit works and can only argue a point from a mythological what-if scenario. And at the end of the day, what are those that benefit from the communist party about?
Controlling the people to control the narrative.
They both suck. The only difference is what illusion you’re willing to believe is beneficial to you.
Flame away.
And what are conservatives about? Now, who’s trying to have us believe that America would
They’re one and the same when it comes to to what matters.
Do we have a Lemmy equivalent to iamverysmart because ffs…
You didn’t even come close to answering the question. You didn’t say anything about who owns and benefits from production.
Sounds like you’re describing authoritarianism to me.
Socialism, Communism, and even Capitalism are not inherently authoritarian.
Also, take a look into the history of CIA intervention on socialist governments. Unless you believe we brought “democracy” to them out of the kindness of our hearts.
Socialism, Communism, and even Capitalism are not inherently authoritarian.
And yet they are.
Good argument. I yield to you.
(/s just in case)
Didn’t answer the question.
Oh I did.
And your response is exactly what I expected. Thanks for playing.
This is a terrible definition that could be applied to any form of government the speaker dislikes.
Imagine that. It’s almost like you get what I’m trying to say.
But that doesn’t make any sense. Words mean things. When people say “communism”, they usually mean something more concrete than whatever you said. Usually it has to do with who owns the means of production.
Come on, eli5 communism. I want to know what these idiot youth are imagining, not your opinion about it.
Simple question here. No gotcha: Do you believe that people deserve to be ruled by kings?
I find the choice to use the word “deserve” to be a bait into the very “gotcha” you’re claiming to not be trying.
Reword that to what you’re actually trying to get at, and I’ll bite.
Should people, in your opinion, be ruled by kings?
I’m done entering bad faith questions in this thread.
I literally did as you asked. There’s no gotcha here. I’m just trying to ascertain whether or not you value democracy or not. That’s a crucial first step to understand why you have such a fundamental misunderstanding of communism. That’s all.
Both systems are crap because humans suck and will let people with type b personality disorders ruin it.
They are both crap, it just that one is less crap than the other. The problem is that these kids don’t understand nuance at all. Everything to the extreme, and no grey area.
Capitalism beats nothing. It is literally the worst system ever set up as an economic system of governance.
Capitalism is bad.
The idea that it’s the worst is just…
Delusional.
And how many years do you personally have living under a different socioeconomic system?
None, just the one grinding me down.
How many do you?
Did I ask you?
No, but I asked you.
I’ll answer your question once mine is answered, how about that? Fair?
None
I’d fight for those sexy ladies too.
I’d be the filling in that Oreo.
