I get the argument, but it’s pretty obviously disingenuous.
The 250 is much less common than the 150. There are admittedly plenty of them. The 250 is bigger in every dimension.
And even my WRX towers over a Miata.
I just think Miata to 250 is a pointless comparison. And I say that agreeing that Miatas are fun and that the 250 (and even the 150) are way, way too big. I have a buddy with a 150, and it’s filled with his tools and lumber every day. I’d argue the 250 is totally unnecessary for 90% of trades, and I specify trades because your average Joe certainly doesn’t need one period.
Completely agree with this. It would be interesting (and more valuable) to see the difference between mean or average car size over the years. Especially since (in Europe at least), there has been a rapid increase in SUVs, and, I am guessing, a decline in compact cars.
The 150 ist just as stupid a car as the 250. If your buddy really needed a car to carry tools and lumber around, he’d drive something like this:
But that doesn’t help curing fragile masculinity. One of these cars is big enough for a family of nine and their luggage. The other one isn’t even big enough for one man and his ego:
I have a grand caravan I use for hauling shit around.
I can lay 8 sheets of 1/2" 4 foot by 8 foot drywall in that van.
How many can you lay flat in a 250? ZERO!
This “just buy a van” crap really needs to stop. There are plenty of reasons specifically to get a pickup truck. The F250 isn’t even sold to customers without a commercial account with Ford. Work vans and trucks are often made on exactly the same platform with a different shell put over it. The van will tend to have worse gas mileage due to the frontal cross section usually being higher (they ride a bit lower while having a same or higher ceiling height).
The problem is really the F150 and similar. It’s still gigantic, it’s sold to whomever can apply for an 8 year/25% interest rate loan, and is rarely used for anything like actual work. The diesel version was also discontinued, which pushes some people–the type who do actual work with it–to either buy the F250 or find a somewhat older F150 model.
It is outright impossible to buy a small truck in the US. I know guys who do real work with it and they aren’t happy having to buy a big machine. No, not the Maverick. That’s “well, there’s spam egg sausage and spam, that’s not got much spam in it” but for trucks.
they ride a bit lower while having a same or higher ceiling height
This is the line that gives away why they’re unquestionably better if you actually need to use it for work.
These jackasses with a tray 1.5m off the ground clearly aren’t regularly needing to get to their oversized toolbox at the back of the tray, because clambering in and out of that thing is an enormous pain in the ass.
This gets brought up so much because it clearly differentiates the people doing work from the people playing dress up.
It does no such thing.
Are you aware of what a fifth wheel is? If you don’t, you really shouldn’t be commenting about what’s better for work or not.
I felt it was obvious I was talking about tradesmen and workers doing work, with all the talk about toolboxes and having to walk into the tray (and given that what most truck owners like to pretend to be). For use as a work vehicle, doing work tasks for tradesmen, a van is far more practical.
Are you implying that construction workers who move around a lot need a gigantic camper when they move between jobs? Because I realize that yanks do tend to do that, though I’d argue that this is more a reflection of yankee culture than applicability for actual work.
There are plenty of reasons a worker would choose a van. There are plenty of reason a worker would choose a truck.
Consider this setup:
Everything is made to be easily accessible. The rack can hold ladders and conduit that are as long as the vehicle (or even a bit longer). Other setups will have side access toolboxes.
Fifth wheels are not just for campers. They haul Bobcats. They haul livestock. They haul large sheds or even small houses. They haul several pallets of bricks.
For that matter, try getting pallet into a van as opposed to a truck bed. If it’s even possible to fit it in a van, you have to be a lot more careful while doing it.
That truck pictured would be better served with a van. Ladders and conduit on the roof, tools in the back. This is standard setup in the UK, UAE and Australia at least, I imagine for everywhere outside of North America.
Ah ok, I’ve only ever heard fifth wheeler be used to describe a camper. Hauling large trailers is something a pickup truck is better at than a van, but if that’s the type of work you do surely the obvious 5T flatbed is the better option, no? I appreciate that you’ll probably counter that the versatility for someone who only needs to do that occasionally and that is valid, but I hope you’ll appreciate that we’re now talking about a very small niche of of tradesmen in response to a comment I originally made making a generalization.
If you must transport a pallet of bricks you do it on an actual truck with a bloody crane on it. This is just kiddy shit. I can’t take you seriously if you drive a pallet of bricks around with that thing. Wtf. That’s just inefficient work.
Doesn’t seem too easy to access anything but the first row of boxes. Where would you even store these orange boxes that are currently on the hand truck? On top of the rack? Seems like fun lifting them 5 feet if they contain any heavy tools. With a Van you have access from the sides built in, and because of the lower floor you could even add a ramp to push your hand truck into the car without having to lift anything at all.
Btw. it’s possible to fit two pallets into a small van. Heck, you can even fit a pallet into a cargo bike.
Ha, he had a rape van prior to the F150. He thinks the access in the 150 is better, and who am I to judge, because I don’t live it day in and day out, so I’ll defer to him.
The 250 (rather 3/4T trucks in general) have limited consumer purpose, outside of towing large campers or car haulers. It’s also the smallest class that is recommended for gooseneck/5th wheel towing.
Commercially, there are more applications for it like hauling fluids, or as a snow plow, as well as the same towing arguments for consumer use. However, once you get into that stuff, you’ll find a 3/4T lacking, which is why you’ll see more 1T (350/3500) commercial trucks. They really are a bit of a silly ‘in between’ size.
For trades however, I would argue that any standard pickup truck is not the appropriate tool, vans are far more suitable for their use. Large “indoor” storage, tall enough to walk upright in, low to the ground so easy to enter/exit with tools, and they can be outfitted to store stuff on the walls.
I had my windows replaced a few years ago, and the work crew rolled up in a cube van, and inside it was set up basically as a woodworking shop, pretty much ready to go. They didn’t have to unload tools, set up tables, etc., just un-fasten some safety clamps, plug in an extension cord, and off they went. Maybe 15 minutes from parking to starting work, and that’s including taking some time to chit-chat with me.
I appreciate that insight, as I have very little of my own. My buddy is kind of a jack of all trades, framing one day, sheetrock one day, finishing the next. I think he likes the idea of unloading the bed easily, moving from one site to the next. I seem to recall his complaint about the van being associated with needing to kinda rejig it depending on the tasks he was performing, and if he had one of those days where he’s visiting multiple sites, doing multiple jobs, the truck was just easier. But that’s my faulty memory and zero experience.
All I have is having driven ambulances. I started back on the van conversions, older F350s. The boxes were squat only, no standing room. I left for about 10 years, roughly, and upon my return the ambulances were now F450 Super Duties. Absolutely massive, couldn’t stand it. I’m a good driver, I’ll toot my own horn, but I’d ride with a bunch of people who just could not navigate the big rigs into tight driveways, but there was this desire for size, and so we had what we had. I won’t lie, they were comfortable, all air ride equipped. But they were big, and adults could get lost in front of them. They did have all around cameras, but it’s crazy to rely on them.
Since my departure (two young kids and my own business is hard to find time to volunteer at the moment), they’ve gone the way of the Sprinter-type vans, which I can appreciate. I’m sure there were some sacrifices, but I also feel like 90% of the equipment we carried was hardly used. We’re also in suburban New Jersey, so it’s not like we’re responding to places and being the only ones on scene, so someone else will show up with the gear that I’m sure they did away with.
In sum, big truck (generally) unnecessary.
I thought my Veloster was pretty small… but it looks fat next to the Miata
One way that your WRX and a Miata do favorably compare is bumper hight. If a collision the safety features built i to both cars would be fully engaged. In OPs example the truck would just roll up on top of the car bypassing pretty much everything.
So I do think even the stock F series trucks have to meet bumper height requirements. A whole separate issue are people raising their shitty truck without making adjustments to the bumpers. We see trucks and tractor trailers with Mansfield bars, yet Joe Schmo with his jacked up pavement princess does what he wants, and doesn’t even have a million dollar policy to at least remunerate the family of whomever he kills.
They don’t even have my 2003 wrx to compare against. But it’s not much bigger. The WRX has gotten huge along with most of Subarus over the same time period since the Miata came out.
My Toyota is damn near identical though.https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/mazda-mx-5-1989-roadster-vs-toyota-mr2-1999-roadster/
I had a buddy who had a gen 1 or 2 MR2 (been so long), and that car was a lot of fun, but holy snap oversteer, very unforgiving. But hey that made it more fun, right? I preferred the predictable oversteer of my nismo 350z. I miss that car. But neither the MR2 nor the 350 are great when I have two little people to put in the back, and all of their stuff.
I had a 2013 WRX after the Nismo, and it was definitely smaller than the 2024, but my 2024 WRX is smaller than my 2018 Legacy was, that was a boat.
And I had a '99 Legacy before, and that car was fantastic. It had ground clearance, I took it offroad to places it absolutely didnt belong. Lots of fun. And very well equipped for it’s time. RIP.
Nice! I want a turbo gen 2 MR2 so bad. I have the mr-s convertible. It’s a ton of fun, but is so underpowered. I think of it more like a gocart. You need momentum to kick the back end out, otherwise it just understeers so much. It’s better once I installed a LSD after a bearing grenaded in the transmission and I had to rebuild it.
I still have my 03 WRX. I swapped the steering box for a newer sti one for a tighter turn, dropped in a '19 sti short block which increased compression, lifted it a couple inches and put in big all terrain wheels. It can go so many places it really shouldn’t. I love it.
Yeah, he unfortunately went too hard on the mods and it blew up one day, I was behind him when it happened, and it never got back after that. Bigger turbo, downpipe, all that jazz. This is going back probably 15 or more years at this point, but he had a trans-am ts6 after that that was an equally fun ride, absolute factory freak, but so different.
I will say, the '24 WRX seems more well equipped for steep driveways than my '13 did, that car was low. It’s a rally car and so it should look and feel like an old group B car. That sounds like a great “conversion”, because the '03 body is just such a piece of history at this point, that car is why WRX is what it is, and if you can keep it running, maybe make it a little more fun, that’s great.
I ran into a guy driving a F650 as his daily commuter when he was going for coffee at Starbucks. He made sure to tell every person behind the counter how great of a vehicle it was.
He had to jockey it to get into the parking lot.
While the F250 is less common than the F150 we’re still faced with a plague of oversized, dangerous, and ecological driving disasters on our roads.
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Here in Alberta, young men hatch out of their eggs with a mullet on their head and the keys to a Ram in their hand. It’s basically a social pressure at this point.
I live this image on the daily, in a Midwestern hell full of giant trucks. Probably 5% of those people also have lift kits, and far too many people have modified them to roll coal.
Back when I had my WRX, I had my infant son in the car. I get on the on ramp and enter the highway. Some asshole in the next lane decides to fuck with the little Subaru and blast thick black smoke all over the highway, so I gun it to get through and past and he does as well. I see the passenger sticking his dumb cunt fucking face out of the window and snickering and I just reacted and as I was flying past I whip and empty frappucino bottle at him, dude caught it with his forehead and I was gone.
I later regretted not just taking the license plate and just calling the cops but then… Hopefully that started a fight between the two.
Hopefully you don’t do this with your kids in the car anymore.
Not like that, no.
Edit: but I haven’t encountered a situation that blatantly thoughtless and cuntish since then, either.
I won’t pretend I haven’t done dumb shit out of rage, and perhaps I’m just fortunate to not have had my kids in the car. I think I’ve gotten a little smarter, more relaxed, the older they get. I’m kind of at a point where the only people who can really get under my skin are my kids.
Lmao! Sure, for small annoyances, but nobody on earth can enrage me better than my mother.
Fuck you, Ford!!
i just want a 97 Tacoma again
I mean these are also two different types of cars. But it is actually so weird to see even two cars of the same type made in different times next to each other. It’s like somebody unintentionally moved the scale slider of the level editor.
in australia, i make sure to kick and dent every yank tank i see parked. its not often - we have more of the smaller pickups (though we call them utes)
I don’t want to defend the overly supersized truck too much, but I do want to point out that even these are two different class of vehicles. Sure, you can cram 4 smallish people into that old Ford Ranger, but nobody is going to be comfortable or happy about it. Also, that small ranger has far less cargo and towing capacity.
Of course, a good chunk of truck owners do not need that much capacity and big trucks are just a toy/status symbol to them. Which is stupid. But there are use cases where those trucks are actually needed, and a small Ford Ranger won’t cut it.
That said, I do wish we could get more small pickup trucks again. The maverick is a good start.
For these kinds of comparisons people have to cherry pick and cannot compare similar class trucks because similar class trucks haven’t really changed in 30 years
If you compare the size of a base 1990 F150 https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/1990/features-specs/
To a base 2025 F150 https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2025/features-specs/
The 2025 is 6 inches shorter, barely an inch taller, and barely an inch wider. Or in terms of percentages: -3.1%, +1.1%, +1.2% respectively
What has changed in 30 years is it was common back then for an average consumer to buy a “regular” cab two door truck with a 6 foot box, four door behemoths were rare. If you wanted a 4 door truck you had to get the F350
Today it’s the other way around, it’s rare to see a single cab F150 and now you can get a 4 door F150
Yeah, the problem isn’t that the big trucks exist. There is a place for them, always will be. But they shouldn’t be a commuter vehicle, the majority of owners never use them for their intended purpose, and even those that do need a truck rarely need one of the size they get.
Most definitely. The fact that the four door 5 foot box exists is hilarious to me in a sad kind of way.
I occasionally get made fun of for owning a 22 two door Ranger, that I bought a “tiny” truck. Honestly I hate how big it is, but I wanted a truck that would be my single vehicle, something I can use for DIY house projects, commute in, go camping/off roading, and take on cross country road trips. Custom ordered it with the specific features I wanted all for ~40k, meanwhile the guys giving me shit for it are paying just as much for a truck with less features, it never leaves the city, and waaaaay more expensive at the pump.
Morons
I tried to compare to a '90s F-150, but that site doesn’t have one.
Also FWIW, anecdotally around here small trucks seem more likely to be used as work trucks than [now greater than] full-size ones. My '90s single-cab Ranger was pretty clearly a former work truck (given how beat up the bed was and the fact that it came with a toolbox), for example, and I use it mainly for hauling and towing. Small trucks can, in fact, “cut it” in a lot more situations than people give them credit for.
Say it with me folks!
Miata
Is
Always
The
Answer!except for the one I saw today with the wheels tilted so only the inner edge of the tire touches the ground
No no, Miata is always the answer. Clearly, Miata is in that case answering the question “how do I look like a bellend without spending too much money, and clearly communicate that while I understand mechanics, I probably shouldn’t”.
Miata
I would consider anything “slammed” no longer viable as a vehicle since they can’t clear a speed bump. I don’t even think they should be road legal because your reaction distance dramatically increases with those setups.
The Miata sold well because it was cheaper than an Alpha Romero. Unfortunately, everyone came to realize it would be in the shop exactly as often, practically negating any benefit.
In what world? The Miata is ridiculously reliable until you start ignorantly modifying it.
Well, I live on earth. I can’t speak to whatever planet you’re from.
Says the guy comparing one of the most reliable sports cars with one of the worst.
I was in Rome last week and pleasantly surprised to see how many tiny cars they use.
There were plenty of Smart cars, but also many other ultra minis like Citroën AMI, XEV Yo-Yo and Renault Twizy.
They’re not just concept cars or used as gimmicks like elsewhere. People actually use them for their daily business.
The traffic in Rome is insane though. The reason they use tiny cars isn’t that the roads are small, but due to congestion and parking. It makes very little sense to own a car there at all.
For those that haven’t seen a Citroën AMI:
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/citroen-ami-2020-2-door-coupe-vs-mazda-mx-5-1989-roadster/
Yep my uncle’s work van in the UK was as small as my Honda Fit. Just two barebones front seats and an empty cargo space.
I mean why would that not be so? I no longer own a car but when I did, it was usually oversized for what I needed to transport (me and my backpack).
I have a small 3-door Corsa and it is oversized for my cargo :D (me and you guessed it, my backpack lol)
i live in malta and got an xev yoyo amonths ago today. It’s my daily driver.
It makes sense for Rome though, these cars are expensive and appeal to the fashion sensibilities of the population there, rather than just using the good public transport there. It’s a signal of wealth, rather than an actual functional commodity.
I found this out the hard way the last time I expressed my love of the AMI
Geez, how much compensating do they need?!? Is it that bad? Like, button-mushroom size?
“It’s the only thing that makes me feel significant in a society that I struggle to understand” - Large truck owners (if they were literate)
I’ve tried to get in a Miata once. Had to put the top down and my eye level was over the windshield.
“Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall.”
6’2 and owned a smart for years.
6’2 and I lay down and sleep in my smart during my lunch break.
I’m 6’4" and fit in my 19 just fine, I have MAYBE an inch of head room left with the top up. Now the solstice I tried to get on? No fucking way. Was it an NA?
Edit: sweet reference on the handle.
I’m 6’, but I have a comparatively long torso, so I generally have the seat set as low as possible in a sedan to be at a comfortable height, and even then, my head nearly touches the ceiling. Life before height-adjustable seats was interesting.
Are we still doing phrasing?
My problem is usually width. Most vehicles aren’t built for anyone physically wider than average (while yes, i am also overweight, id still have this problem no matter what). Some office chairs give me hip pain, and most armrests can’t be adjusted out far enough to not be digging into my ribs.
There’s also just nowhere for my left leg to comfortably go in an automatic, at least with a manual i had the clutch to keep that leg moving.
I’m 6’4" and have driven tons of cars and owned a few. Stepping into a proper pickup was the first time I thought “oh, a vehicle designed for me.” I’m also a carpenter, so it is essential to my work. Memes like this are low hanging fruit.
Yes, we do have a size problem in the USA. Is everyone that drives one of these trucks a selfish, tiny-dicked, backwards-thinking asshole? No, and honestly, the majority of the people that I know are like me and need a work vehicle like this. More than half of them are in a union. We can point out the absurdity of the size wars when it comes to American vehicle design, but stop picking on pickup trucks.
Plenty of tall people drive small cars. Can’t you just use a smaller truck?
I’m 6’4" as well and I fit in just about everything that’s not clearly a compact car. I fit fairly well in Honda and Toyota sedans, and drove a Civic until 2018, when I bought a Tesla Model 3. That was okay, I fit but it’s low, too low for my tall legs really getting in and out Traded that in recently and got a Polestar 3, which is a larger SUV.
Big work vehicles aren’t the issue, as long as they’re used for that purpose, it’s the pavement princesses that are the problem. The ones that rarely or possibly even have never seen a day or work. They’re all over the place.
There are a lot of owners of these pickups that use them as their primary vehicle and grocery getter. Then they try to justify needing the truck because of the two days a year they actually use the bed to bring something back from Home Depot or towing a trailer. Both of which have daily alternatives available either through a rental company or from the store itself.
You tall folks should pick VW New Beetles. An average-sized person can wear a top hat while driving one of those because the roof is so domed.
(If you must drive at all, of course – obviously, the real best choice is a bicycle with infinite headroom.)
Amen.
I’m 6’4 and easily fit in my mx-5. And you know for a fact at least 90% of those trucks are grocery getters “because I like to drive up high, it makes me feel safer, and more of a shitbag”
the “i don’t need a big car, my dick is big enough” bumper sticker needs to make a comeback.
Because body shaming is the best retort we have?
Yeah fuck 'em. The venn diagram between those drivers and MAGA snowflakes is almost a circle. Shaming the one thing they hold dear to their mental stability is the least I can do to fascists.
