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But giving poor people money is a crime, it encourages people to become/stay poor
/S
I’m not disagreeing with this necessarily, but I don’t like seeing a post by an account I have no idea about stating something as scientific fact, and then having that post taken as fact point blank. Once again, not trying to say what she is saying is incorrect, I just get concerned when I see bandwagoning on some random person’s take.
That said, if you find the studies on this, please please please do us all a favor and comment those!
There is a mountain of evidence and everything she says is common knowledge at this point to anyone who has spent even a few minutes looking it up. You can just use you favorite search engine to see for yourself.
You really just come off sounding aloof and uninformed. What evidence!? When you are swimming in a sea surrounded by it.
Sorry I was too busy yelling at other people on other threads.
But also my concern was about the reaction to the post, not necessarily the post itself, though the two are connected
Here’s a decent meta-analysis you can start with.
Sixteen reviews met the inclusion criteria. The reviews were comprised of nine peer-reviewed articles and reports from systematic review databases, five technical reports, and two working papers. Table 1 shows the reviews organized by objectives and geography
Well done and thank you.
Awesome, love this.
I wish this was the post or at least linked.
I’m disappointed that your link was not a rickcroll.
The reason no one in a suit cares is because most of the voting monkeys don’t care because they lack the capacity to understand.
As always the real problem is laziness. Why create new systems when we can ad hoc the current system? Sure it was never meant to do that thing but our sort term goals are more important then any long term goal you can think of.
Crime goes down when police do less crime. Less police = less crime.
Given police crime When police funding is decreased by 50 percent Then police crime decreases by 50 percent
California had a great mental health system in place. Ronald Reagan got elected and chose to close many of the in patient facilities. This lead to mass homelessness, which meant the police and prison budgets had to go up.
Then he did the same thing when he was President.
Their excuse was rampant abuse, so instead of fixing it, they just closed them.
What if locking people up indefinitely (as many were in institutions decades ago) and diagnosing them with subjective criteria isn’t ideal? I’m not dismissing anybody’s diagnosis or hand-waving real symptoms or illness - I’m merely suggesting that an authoritarian system where human rights are stripped with minimal outside observation (with sometimes flimsy criteria and fallible actors) is potentially damaging to mental health and is probably not conducive to healing. It can be a very imbalanced power dynamic, especially as it was in the institutions of the past as you pointed out.
We need an answer to retain the rights of those involuntarily held as best as possible. I think it’s important to make courts more accessible to patients (and their loved ones), providing those held involuntarily with access to second opinions or different facilities (in some cases), and having established (and independently enforced) criteria for release - with appeals available for patients to argue their case for release with legal representation and other expert witnesses (e.g. other psychiatrists, qualified individuals directly involved in their care past or present) and perhaps even family members and other people who were involved with the patient.
Involuntary commitment (for any extended period) should be reserved for the severely mentally ill, who are determined by independent review to be in need of treatment to stabilize - and only those who are a danger to themselves or others, those who committed crimes, and those who are actively violent should be held in higher-security (locked) facilities.
I feel the rest would benefit greatly from conditions akin to a Soteria House (without locked doors, forced medication, or coercion) - the Soteria House model could be expanded, adapted, or modified. Treatment could be loosely mandated by courts, with reviews conducted and alternative treatment plans established if the patient wishes to modify or discontinue treatment before they are thought to be stabilized by their psychiatrist(s) and care team. I feel that maintaining consent, valuing patient input in forming treatment plans, and avoiding coercion is key to address certain states of trauma - otherwise patients are potentially faced with more trauma.
For those who are not thought to be severely ill, but who are thought to be in temporary crisis (and who are not thought to be violent or a threat to themselves or others), stabilization could be attempted in a temporary hold to assess their state, and continued onward with care akin to Soteria Houses or intensive outpatient care and other forms of observation and forms of support (e.g. with their environment and other distressing situations they are facing).
And to respond directly to you, I definitely feel like society was incapable or very underequipped to fix the institutions back then. Society is still largely unable to address distress and its very real manifestations or consequences - such as homelessness and the prevention of individuals from becoming homeless against their will.
The reason they locked people up is that they didn’t have any other treatment. Most psychiatric meds are recent inventions.
Here’s a link to a longer piece on the whole situation.
Small government doin its thing, yay Murica. Also stricter gun laws thanks to good old fashioned racism and hospitals are more overworked than ever with patients dealing with substance abuse and other related mental health issues. We stopped putting sick people in treatment and the cops just started shooting them instead.
California had a great mental health system in place.
I’m sorry, but no, we really fucking didn’t. Reagan was wrong (about everything) to close them, but they weren’t good before he did that by a looooong shot
Because suite giving people money without suits doesn’t help the suits friends who also happen to wear suits.
As an outside observer it seems like American police culture is fundamentally rotten and it’s not a funding issue.
What’s cool is they are exporting it. The cops where you are look up to the American style. When the American cops retire, they will be hired to train your cops with seminars and books. Its a fun little community. So you’re an outsider, but not for long. Just a few more years of passively waiting and you will be an insider soon.
If I recall the vast majority of crime is property crime and if you remove property concerns that crime drops.
Pay attention to what we do whenever you see policy announcements as that gives a clear picture of what we want.
If you think you’re altruistic ass (not necessarily yours specifically) is different, you’re still a part of the machine that wants this. If you’re legit disgusted by it work from within to change it.
“Be the change you want to see in the world” is contrived as shit but it’s true.
I’m literally being as belligerent as I can already!
Don’t be belligerent you attract more bears with honey.
We’ve known for years that starting school at 08.00 is detrimental to school-aged children and teenagers, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for years that WFH can be just as productive and even more so than RTO, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for ages that housing homeless people helps them and society much better than criminalizing them, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for ages that repressive stances on drugs are counterproductive, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for ages that a 4-day workweek results in gains for everyone, including the owner class themselves, yet we keep on doing 5.
I’m starting to think that gaining knowledge and insight is completely useless if the results are never taken into account if they don’t fit the currently reigning narrative.
Humans are a deeply flawed species. That alone is bad enough, but we KNOW we are, we KNOW how to solve at least some of it, yet we simply refuse.
The suffering is the point.
All those points are always resisted by Conservatives / Regressives… They are fucking wrong about every solution to every problem we face since the dawn of time.
Because by their nature and beliefs, they are resistant to change, any change, even good ones.
Not true. They are in favor of change that benefits the wealthy. They resist any change the benefits the general public.
They’re not for just any change that benefits the wealthy: they’re against any mutually beneficial change.
Some might even say that’s the way things have always been, so they refuse to change it…
What do conservatives want? Money and control. If they willingly choose to have less of one, it’s in pursuit of the other.
They are resisted because they threaten the status quo of the oligarchs and the useful idiots they are able to convince. In my country, they mostly do it by doing barbecues, concerts during the campaign, giving people in the countryside buckets, umbrellas a bag of rice and bottle of oil, and lots of TV and TikTok propaganda. In the US, religion seems to plays a much bigger role.
We’ve known for years that starting school at 08.00 is detrimental to school-aged children and teenagers, but we keep doing it.
But work is
9-59-6, can’t have flexible hours. Everyone knows a busy employee is less likely to get weird ideas like unionizing.We’ve known for years that WFH can be just as productive and even more so than RTO, but we keep doing it.
But you can’t control and micromanage the
slaveemployee if they aren’t physically present at work. And also, we need to keep the employee busy on the 1-2hr commute, see above point.We’ve known for ages that housing homeless people helps them and society much better than criminalizing them, but we keep doing it.
You mean the poor landlords lose the bread from their mouth and not get paid rent?
We’ve known for ages that repressive stances on drugs are counterproductive, but we keep doing it.
Stealing the bread of our poor military complex and police forces? Can’t have that.
We’ve known for ages that a 4-day workweek results in gains for everyone, including the owner class themselves, yet we keep on doing 5.
See point #1
My point is that it’s literally a class war between the oligarchs in power and the rest of us.
We need to create a new state of enlightenment, the technocracy state.
people who upvote the parent comment but downvote “technocracy” don’t understand what technocracy means
You have to cycle out old fucks to get progress.
After my generation dies you might be able to move forward in some of those fronts.
I will say, about the school times, that the biggest issue is the parent schedules, not the kids. Shifting times makes it much harder on parents, unless you also push tradwife-ish values: one parent must give up their career to care for the kids. It’s a sticky topic without an easy solution.
When one of us works from home, we can do both. We’re productive enough from home that the extra time missed while walking them to school or waiting at the bus stop with them is more than made up for, especially when we save commute time and money.
That’s great for white collar workers. It’s a bit of an entitled perspective, though; there are many people in the US who aren’t privileged enough to be able to do their jobs through Zoom.
outside of Elementary (kindergarden mostly) schools and suburbia there isn’t really a reason parents are needed for children to catch a bus/ walk a few miles to school.
You’re describing, like, 50% of the population of children in US. But ignoring that, there are other, valid reasons people don’t want to go off to work and leave their kids to catch a bus in a couple of hours. Even with buses, it’s not uncommon to see parents standing with their kids at the bus stop. In Minnesota in the winter, where it can sometimes reach -45°C in the winter, you don’t let your kid walk 4 blocks to stand for 20 minutes waiting for a bus that might be 20 minutes late because of snow. Frostbite of a very real risk in a lot of the world.
You’re thinking very locally.
I’ve gone to a bus stop in -40° weather before (northern Alaska), frostbite isn’t that much of a concern if you have good enough clothing (children should not be sent out in fabrics that lose all insulating properties when wet spend the extra if they are going out in even -20°C regularly) handwarmers do exist for gloves if the child has learned how not to burn themselves (and when burns are preferable to freezing) and they get their gloves wet.
it would be nice if school buses had trackers so kids could know how delayed they currently are (or if the route is canceled because the bus drove off the road again).
Science advances one funeral at a time -Max Plank
What he was saying is that we can discover all the new things we want, but the people who have respected and established careers who don’t believe the new science tend to block/slow down it’s acceptance and further application until they die, then science advances…
I think that’s all of society, not just science though…
After my generation dies you might be able to move forward in some of those fronts.
Before this most recent US election, I had the same thought that the old fossils in power are the reasons nothing is getting better.
I think old fossils had a huge impact on the outcome of the election, with a lot of backing by rich individuals and business interests that are unrelated to wealth.
Kamala was relatively young, but look at the rest of Congress and the leadership at the state level. The average age of all state leadership, including governors, and Senate & House speakers, is 58. The average age of all state governors alone is 68.
Yeah white men from Gen Z have shown the cycle will continue ad infinitum. It’s more about maintaining the racial hierarchy and patriarchy than age.
I will say, about the school times, that the biggest issue is the parent schedules, not the kids.
I call bullshit on this. Most school districts have high-schoolers starting at 7:30, middle-shoolers at 8, and elementary at 8:30, or something like that.
Yet, elementary aged kids are naturally up by 6 (if the parents are lucky; often earlier), and are also the biggest contingent that gets driven (instead of bussed) to school. A working parent can drive to their kid’s school and be on time for work without much issue early in the day, not so much at rush hour. And they are be up with their kids bright and early anyhow.
High-schoolers are the ones that need the most night sleep of the bunch, and with the latest sleep cycle. They are also the most independent. It’s not an issue to leave a high-schooler at home and go to work while they bus/drive/bike themselves to school later.
In short, both parents and kids schedules benefit from a reversal of the timetables, but we don’t do it for $REASONS.
There’s an easy solution: Push workdays later into the day so a 9-5 becomes an 11-7.
Push workdays later into the day so a 9-5 becomes an 11-5.
FTFY
work can get fucked if they think I’m giving up my evenings. We should be pushing for shorter workdays, too. Not just push them back.
I’ll do 4 days a week from 9-2, how about that?
11-7
when do i get to have fun?
2 Weeks every year. No, you don’t always get to choose which ones. Yes, they are also your sick days.
You can either adjust your sleep patterns to get the same amount of evening fun time, have fun in the morning, or organize and force the bourgeoisie to give you shorter workdays.
I used to believe the first line in your comment but the new generation is swinging further right than their parents (mostly male). So now I’m not so sure
You might be right; I don’t interact with a lot of Z. If so, maybe it’s a good thing we’re on the path to an ecological catastrophe and another, this time man-made, global extinction event.
I mean I don’t either and probably if I didn’t I wouldn’t have the same findings, but that’s what the statistics say for the western world at least
We’ve known for ages that paying for social services, healthcare and unemployment benefits increase the amount of spendable income the working class has and that this directly benefits the real economy while more income to top earners only means that that money is lost to the economy.
Most of the problems the US is facing could be fixed, or at least alleviated with social democratic programs. Better economy, better education, less crime, less partisanship, less drug abuse, less violence, less stress, less fear, better mental health, better physical health, less homelessness, more gender equality, more racial equality, more job security, better wages, better lifestyle, more happiness, less religion, etc. etc.
Have you considered that those things aren’t done not because of stupidity but because a small subset of society that holds most of the political power and media benefits from those things being done?
The system isn’t flawed in the sense that it doesn’t work. It does. Extremely well. It just doesn’t work for you and me or to make everyone’s lives better.
Yeah imagine bees saying we KNOW smoking us and removing our honey leads to disorder and pointless work, so why do we keep doing it?
A little glib I admit, but I agree. There are a minority of people holding us back, and not enough political capital, or incentive, to make the necessary changes.
I don’t know if that analogy fully works. Bees get safety, they get a maintained home, as a colony they get healthcare from pests and similar, they get security when things get rough
Yes, they do more work, but the beekeeper also cares for them, and ensures their survival to a greater degree
Not to mention, they’re not caged, they’re free to leave
Yeah, if bees are stressed by their hive location, they move. Bees will just leave honey farms if they have some sort of detrimental effect that out weights the benefits of the hive location.
You have the understand that your culture is not predicated on logic, reason, or the scientific method. Its designed to feed the capitalist machine and perpetually increase productivity. That’s the only real outcome measure.
Starting school late will make it difficult for parents to get their kids to the bus stop / school on their way to work. We can’t disrupt the productivity of the parents - that’s the priority.
WFH decreases the control your employer has over you and also diminishes the value of their real estate. Will someone please think of the capitalists?
Housing homeless people is socialist. We musn’t disincentivize productive behavior!
Drugs and all “crime” must be allowed to happen and then stamped out by force. Only then can we use fear to control populations and define an outgroup that becomes our baseline for dehumanization.
All of this is by design in Western and many other modern cultures. It was never really a question of knowing better.
We start school at 9 since its bad for kids to start it early.
WFH is pretty common here
We treat drugs as disease and doing or owning them isnt illegal
Homeless do get shelter here
4 day workweek is being trialled constantly and only lost since some cunts take advantage of it and ruin it for everyone.
There are changes happening worldwide. The bigger the country, the more stagnant it is.
We’ve known for years that starting school at 08.00 is detrimental to school-aged children and teenagers, but we keep doing it.
Yeah, but we also know school is more about free childcare that allows both parents to go to work than it is about actual education.
We’ve known for years that WFH can be just as productive and even more so than RTO, but we keep doing it.
We also know that a large part of the real estate market is dependent on leasing office space.
We’ve known for ages that housing homeless people helps them and society much better than criminalizing them, but we keep doing it
Again, creating more homes drives down property value.
We’ve known for ages that repressive stances on drugs are counterproductive, but we keep doing it.
It also creates jobs for police officers, income for private prisons, and strips minorities of their rights.
We’ve known for ages that a 4-day workweek results in gains for everyone, including the owner class themselves, yet we keep on doing 5.
This is once again an issue with the real estate market. Cutting the work week also cuts into profits of companies dependent on demand made from people commuting to and from work.
starting to think that gaining knowledge and insight is completely useless if the results are never taken into account if they don’t fit the currently reigning narrative.
It’s not that we don’t take account of the results, it’s just that the results do not benefit the nonsensical economic system we’ve adapted to. Our system does not create value from the things we have, it creates value from the things we withold.
Our system does not create value from the things we have, it creates value from the things we withold.
Getting this stitched onto a throw pillow and plastered all over those “In This House We Believe” placards.
Ahh yes, another untapped market! Inspirational chachkies for billionaires.
It’s right up there with my "Lie. Cheat. Steal. " “Live. Laugh. Love.” painting.
Wow, I’m starting to think that maybe real estate shouldn’t be a commodity subjected to market forces.
Be prepared to be assassinated by a jr level manager from Black Rock. Keep your head on a swivel. Bryce played lacrosse for Princeton, he don’t miss son.
fair, but then how would houses be sold and bought?
they shouldn’t.
then how would people move?
Taking a page from the Singapore HDB, housing can be sold/bought by the state, and prices are set by what the applicant can afford, rather than what the market is willing to pay. This allows residents to move to different locations, or change dwelling size to fit their currents needs (marriage, children, empty nesters, divorce, etc.).
I imagine this can work in a multi-city state, too… just need to make sure there is ample supply to allow for migrations without waiting lists.
Unlike rent control on rentals from a private market, price control for a majority public housing system can work, as a black market is hard to establish.
curious about how the value is calculated when selling if it is based on the applicant not the state/location of the property?
Best I can do is school at 7:30 and sometimes 6:50.
To be fair on point 1, schools are staggered with start times so there isn’t a million buses on the road at once.
yet we keep on doing 5
6 day workweeks are pretty common in my country now. almost as if breaking our spirits takes precedence over productivity in capitalism.
Greece? :-/
no way greece also has a 6 day workweek 😔
workers of the world are due for some more uniting again.
It’s not that we refuse, we just can’t help but put stupid arrogant people in charge of everything. They don’t listen to science, just themselves, so nothing changes.
As a species, we’ve basically been doing this forever. Or at least since Machiavelli wrote the Prince, which is literally what’s happening everywhere now.
Simply put, those with intelligence know enough to realize what they don’t know. So they won’t make claims they can’t pursue. Politically, this will always work against them, and in favor of any loud idiot that promises everything, but can’t deliver. People will always pick the loud idiot, because the loud idiot will promise more than the intelligent option could ever reasonably accomplish.
The secret to solving this is simply transparency, and regulation.
That is: don’t let stupid leaders be stupid behind closed doors. Bring it into the open for scrutiny by professionals. Don’t let stupid people hold positions of authority by placing requirements for those positions to be held. Military service, or public service requirements work, but so do simple tests that could prevent hostile idiots from holding positions of power they will guarantee abuse.
There’s more solutions provided in the Prince as well. So this problem certainly isn’t a new one.
- protestant work ethic
- religious bullshit
- backwards thinking
- politicians respond to the people’s demands
- stupid laws result
- dumb people shouldn’t be able to participate in society
This is what’s so wack about society to me. We’ve got a side promising to give police more money and a side promising to give poor people some money and people will literally choose the former because they don’t believe the latter.
The system is fucked; people who are pro services are soft on crime, people hard on crime are soft on services.
You get a society where everything is provided and the fuckups are treated with kid gloves leaving everyone else asking if its really worth the tax hit, where the other option wants a fucked up ghetto of starving sick poor who get sent to work a life of prison labor if they steal food.
That’s because our societal structure doesn’t reflect reality. Here’s the reality: the government is a tribe, a gang, an institution. Give Burger King guns and badges, say they dictate human behavior now, and you get the same results. You all are so caught up in this mythical “big picture”, but the reality is right in front of you and under your feet. And that reality is anarchism. Nobody is coming to save you faster than someone can stab you and bounce, and if you check on your elderly neighbor who had groceries delivered a little too long ago, you’ll save a life faster than any social programs. Embrace the reality that we’re being picked on by these bullies we call institutions and business, check on your neighbor, pick up some litter, and punch a mofo in the mouth when you’re disrespected. We’ve developed tools for social cohesion over billions of years far more refined than your rudimentary moral and systemic frameworks. Use them, dummy. Not you, specifically, all of humanity.
Well there’s your problem, suits only care about keeping money.
Best I can do is militarized police
They’re not giving the police money. They’re giving the people who supply the police more money. Which are their people
More crime also means more slave labour and more equipment sales
It’s almost like their highest priority isn’t lowering crime.
Chaos, artificial scarcity, and violence feeds the system and justifies its existence.
Otherwise, why would we have a mass incarceration system? Why is it still punitive in nature with terrible and inhumane conditions normalized?
A cycle is created that makes people unemployable and these industries and those in power reap the benefits at every stage of these people’s lives - any police contact is effectively a scarlet letter. Specifically, many corporations benefit from the slave labor sourced from prisons and the private prison industry is its own can of worms.
With AI tooling screening job applicants with proprietary criteria, public data brokers, mass surveillance disguised as “adtech”, people search websites, social media (where people have a tendency to overshare personal details), systematic reporting of arrest records/etc. in newspapers (generally with no updates to reflect the person’s current situation); you can literally be unemployable in the US for crimes with no conviction or crimes that have been expunged or sealed.
If you are a felon - good fucking luck getting a job in today’s market - background checks are normalized. It’s no wonder why people turn to crime to exist, discrimination is effectively legalized - there is insufficient regulation and protections for job applicants.
The only way to prevent crime is to rehabilitate those who commit crime and to provide services to enrich people’s lives before they commit crime. We also need to respect people’s privacy upon rehabilitation - we shouldn’t be permanently labeling (or dehumanizing) those deemed to be fit to return to society (e.g. people that aren’t violent). We have to give them a path to participate in society.
