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- cross-posted to:
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Funny how there’s a bunch of people in the comments essentially just unironically repeating the meme: “Well this must be wrong because I believe this and I’m actually a centrist!!!”
That’s the point, buddy. You’re the butt of the joke. The idea that the far-left and far-right are equally bad or warrant the same amount of scrutiny and criticism is a right-wing belief.
To make the point more obvious instead of using “left” and “right” look at specific policy beliefs that the left right have:
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Equality across social and demographic groups vs. State-enforced racism, sexism and other kinds of bigotry
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Abolishment of bourgeois property and money vs. Complete privatization, oligarchy and corruption
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Globalization, peaceful relations and a right to live where you want vs. Complete isolationism and xenophobia
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Right to self-governance and no government with a monopoly on violence vs. State sanctioned violence against those considered undesirable or traitors
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This is some crazy doublethink shit. It’s clear just looking at the inconsistent interpretation from all the top-level comments that ‘centrist’ is a blanket term that both describes ‘centrist’ positions and also ‘left/right radicals’. The only consistent is whether the subject is subjecting the in-group to criticism
The same user constantly harps on ‘far-left’ progressives complaining about democratic positions, and calls himself a centrist.
This is just standard ‘out-group’ gatekeeping. “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” shit.
“Bothsides types are indistinguishable both in form and in end-result, regardless of whether they claim to be centrists or leftists”
“This is crazy doublethink shit!”
Bothsides types are indistinguishable
… Yea, see there it is. “Bothsides types are indistinguishable [in the way they criticize my party]”
[in the way they criticize my party]
What
Don’t be dense. Define ‘bothsides type’ that includes all subsets of the group you’re talking about. I’d bet pretty penny it isn’t limited to people who use the phrase ‘both sides are exactly the same’.
I’m gonna guess this is pretty close: ‘someone who criticizes the democrats without clearly signaling their electoral support of them’
Or, put another way:
[in the way they criticize my party]
Not necessarily. I also think that both sides extremes are absolutely awful.
The difference is that us “real” “both-siders” realize and agree that the fascist side is much more imminent and dangerous and therefore tend to ally with the left.
Lemmy being black or white like always. You can be a leftist, vote for the left and still recognize the flaws in your own parties and the good ideologies in the other…
I swear, the left usually calls itself open-minded, but as soon as someone on the right comes around, instead of trying to convince them with arguments, they are being called straight up evil russian bots. So what do they do, they go back to truth social, where they are well treated, and keep voting conservative.
Nothing in the meme that directly names political parties.
Are you someone who calls yourself a centrist but can’t decide if kids should be shot in schools or Healthcare is a human right? Weird.
No, I don’t think kids should be shot, and healthcare should be a thing. But here anyway, the current healthcare system is broken, and some of the conservative ideas are trying to fix it, while the left is fine leaving it half working. While I’m still a leftist, I do recognize their point and am not calling them evil for it…
Sure, buddy, we know you don’t believe everyone is entitled to Healthcare.
?? Why would I believe that, and why would I even lie about that?
some of the conservative ideas are trying to fix it,
No, they literally are not. You are making things up.
And so, instead of asking yourself questions, you straight up jump to the conclusion you want to hear. This is what I’m criticizing here, and you’re far from the only one acting that way.
Here’s a translated part of the local conservative party’s website:
spoiler
The Conservative Party of Quebec, for its part, supports improving care for vulnerable patients, but by offering solutions that do not come at the expense of other Quebecers:
Ensure that patients with serious illnesses who are waiting are given priority in getting a family doctor, without depriving other patients of their current services. Increase the number of doctors by raising admissions to medical programs and more quickly recognizing foreign diplomas. Decentralize hospital management by incorporating contributions from the private sector to tailor measures to the specific needs of each institution.Moreover, the Conservative Party is proposing a modernization of the healthcare system based on the experiences of the world’s most developed and high-performing countries, particularly Germany, Switzerland, and the Netherlands. Recently, the PCQ presented a study based on the experiences and results achieved by these European countries in healthcare, which confirms the importance of increasing the number of healthcare professionals and adding private services to the public hospital system.
Now I am by no means saying this is the best way to do it, or that they are actively working on it, but to say they aren’t trying to fix it is just a lie. You didn’t even bother researching it, you immediately assumed the answer you wanted to hear was the correct one.
the meme is explicitly not talking about those people
Honestly I’m talking more about the people in the comments than the meme itself.
Lemmy being black or white like always. You can be a leftist, vote for the left and still recognize the flaws in your own parties and the good ideologies in the other…
That’s very different from asserting that both sides are the same.
Someone: “both parties share this specific commonality”
PugJesus: “oh rly?? Both sides are LITERALLY the same??”Don’t you dare suggest that my party has a common flaw with the other party and can be responsible for their own losses, you fascist.
Someone: “both parties share this specific commonality”
PugJesus: “oh rly?? Both sides are LITERALLY the same??”
Bruh, there are no end of people I can quote on here saying that both parties are exactly the same, that there’s no meaningful difference between them, that Trump is just business as usual, and that bourgeois democracy has been on an unceasing march becoming ever-more fascist since its inception.
Only someone with an agenda would take ‘exactly the same’ to mean ‘identical’ in this context. I don’t even care if you could source someone using the word ‘exactly’, which I would guess is far less common than you’re suggesting.
I think it’s malicious that you use ‘centrist’ in this way, because anyone pointing to similarities between the parties would likely be the furthest thing from ‘centrist’ on any commonly use political scale (as flawed as those are)
Only someone with an agenda would take ‘exactly the same’ to mean ‘identical’ in this context.
Jesus fucking Christ.
I’m not kidding. I don’t think you could explain the thing you’re taking issue with without projecting your ethical framework onto it.
We can have a conversation about effective/acceptable methods of activism without all this bullshit posturing. Just say the thing you mean and leave the agitprop to the activists.
I’m not kidding. I don’t think you could explain the thing you’re taking issue with
“I take issue with the presentation of all major sides of an issue to be indistinguishable because they are both flawed, with the implicit or explicit exhortation to support neither, when there are obvious and important differences between the two with one being unambiguously preferable, and choosing neutrality is siding with the oppressor”?
without projecting your ethical framework onto it.
What the ever-loving fuck would be describing a political issue without projecting an ethical framework onto it?
We can have a conversation about effective/acceptable methods of activism without all this bullshit posturing. Just say the thing you mean and leave the agitprop to the activists.
“‘Bothsides’ attitude is bullshit and, ultimately, right-wing bullshit”?
Both sides are similar in behavior, not in ideology. Right winger’s are treated just as bad here as leftists are treated on truth social. Both sides are somehow convinced their idea is the absolute truth and the other side is the devil itself.
As long as you’re amoral and self-serving, you can only be a “right winger”, whatever that means. It’s only when you dispel the myth of moral relativism and believe that, yeah, some things ARE wrong (and we should avoid and condemn them, of course), that you can start becoming a person worth existing and worth listening to. And if you’re not very smart nor very brave you might be a “non radical” “leftist” but hey, your heart is probably in the right place so I’m not gonna hate (too much).
lovely flat comparison that only accepts this precise present moment as the only context.
Never mind that the Democrats today are the George W. Bush neo-cons of twenty years ago. Or that the precedent laid down by the Bush admin - and subsequently renewed and strengthened by the Obama admin - are the same legal standards Trump and ICE are now claiming cover under.
The problem is those “Centrists” are the mainstream Democratic party. There is no left-wing in national politics. The left has no one to vote for.
Yeah but you hate democracy if you say that!
The middleground between racism and not racism is 50% racism. That being said, they probably mean centrist in different topics. Blame two party system not the people.
Yes, well…when you’ve been indoctrinated by the internet the majority of your adult life, you (totally unironically /s) view anyone that doesn’t align exactly with your world view as a Totalitarian.
I would say it’s a problem, but at least it keeps you all in a centralized bubble that allows you to believe “we are the majority!!”, without actually impacting the real world.
Said on the internet, by an internet user. Curious.
I am very smart.
I mean, I understand that this is like a very prevailing thing, but centrists exist. Especially in a modern political climate that is this polarized, being a centrist is unbelievably hard to explain to people. The left is convinced that they are very people first and very centrist and the right is convinced that they are very right and very populist.
I mean basically what I’m saying is that this actually emphasizes a problem and people just blindly agreeing with this is also a problem. I would venture to say that most people can’t recognize an actual centrist as opposed to just immediately assuming them to be a right winger. This has happened for over 10 years in my daily life. Before Donald Trump even started running for president, in 2013, I had people accusing me of being either left-wing or right-wing, when in reality, I am very much a centrist. If I use any political buzzwords to identify myself whatsoever, I will then be put into a category that which does not properly define me. I despise the Democrats, I despise the Republicans, and I despise Donald J. Trump. I don’t think anyone in the last 10 years in the entirety of this government has been worth even considering for my vote for president.
But who am I? I’m just one guy.
Please don’t hate me for saying this. I just, I see this meme and I see the comments and I just think, wow, this must be a bunch of people who have experienced like, you know, those weird people who liked Trump but no longer like Trump. My point is that like people continue to say that there’s no such thing as a centrist and I’m not saying that you people are saying that I’m saying that that is a prevailing idea and I’m sick and tired of it and this meme and your comments very much seem to perpetuate that.
Anyway, I’m done. I hate politics because it’s terrible. There’s nothing and no one to vote for. No cause to get behind that will ever truly fix it just by voting. Get active in your community, physically, and improve things on a city-wide level. And then if a ton of people do that, we’ll actually see change. That is if these tariffs don’t literally destroy our entire economy. #AmericaisrecessionproofsolongaswethreatentheFederalReserve
In a nutshell, what this meme is about is all the people that we’ve run into who say, “both sides are bad,” because they believe the Republicans lies about Democrats, and the Republican talking points on issues. Actual centrists, in Republican lingo, are “the far left.”
Disliking politics and all the current political parties doesn’t fit the technical definition of a centrist.
It’s not that centrism can’t exist, it’s that it’s commonly used as a thin pretense to cover actual partisan leanings, usually right-wing (by the general global metric, not just the US one).
Additionally, abstinence isn’t commonly a good approach by which to assert a legitimately central stance. A lot of the time a legitimately central stance doesn’t exist in a practical sense.
As stated by a commenter above “The middleground between racism and not racism is 50% racism”.
I personally think concept of “centrism” isn’'t viable, not because nuance and context can’t exist but because the “center” often isn’t a useful target.
I may be left leaning, but I am also afraid of giving voters more power over the economy. Everything we do in housing, which is something people do have a high degree of control, is screwed up. People also want a huge amount of social programs but low taxes.
I run into this on dating apps. “Centrist” and “apolitical” are both code for “conservative.”
“Both sides bad, bit aT leAsT tRuMp iS hOnEst aBoUt iT!”
The Honesty:
“You won’t have to vote anymore”
“Dictator on day one”Nuance is inconvenient to radicals and fundamentalists.
The US has little nuance. Your dominant parties are Fascist and Far-Right Neoliberals with some token LGBT rights.
I’m not American, luckily.
He’s a troll, don’t bother.
Another one I noticed is they say shit like “well they’re saying two opposite things, so you cannot know the truth”. Mother fucker, if you dig a tiny bit the truth is out there, waiting for you, but they cannot accept one side is lying (it’s theirs)
