Except they don’t have the same god… Christians believe in a triune God which Jesus is the incarnation of, something muslims and modern day Jews completely reject, as they are unitarians.
Well the god is still the same entity. Looking how the christians and muslim use the old testament nad Jesus bring a prophet/messiah.
Christians believe Jesus is God. So it’s not the same entity.
The God christians believe in is the same Jews and Muslims believe in. Christians just believe God decided to show themselves in 3 different forms to us humans while the others don’t believe they did. Doesn’t change the fact it’s the same God.
You can see it as Movies: You got Part 1:
- The Torah: The Old Testament. Than you got the sequel:
- The Bible: The New Testament. And finally a remake:
- The Koran: Taking from both and adding it’s own twist to it.
But they are all based in the same cinematic universe.
The three different forms thing isn’t the trinity, that moreso describes modalism which oneness pentecostals believe.
The Old testament is written by loads of people, generally noted down oral tradition, kingdom records, prophecies, etc.
The new testament is written by a bunch of guys who witnessed Jesus and they’re writing down what they saw, as well as letters these guys sent.
The Qur’an is some guy who had a hallucination in a cave where he thinks god told him to marry 9 women including a six year old. Also just full on claims the bible and torah are scripture yet flat out contradicts them while claiming they’re legit. Retcons a lot of stuff and Also claims Jews worship Ezra for some reason which literally never happens.
Muslims worship a god who tells them to marry multiple women and says you have to earn your way into heaven. Also believes that god never became man.
Christians worship a God who became Man and died for the sins of all, promising eternal life by grace.
Jews like to follow loads of rules and believe that the God Christians worship wasn’t actually God at all.
If cousin A were to say “I worship the one true god, he has four arms and two legs”
If cousin B were to say “I worship the one true god, he has two arms and four legs”
And cousin C were to say “I worship the one true god, he has no arms or legs”
They’re clearly worshipping a different god. If all three of them claimed it’s the same god that their deceased grandfather worshipped, still doesn’t mean it’s the same god. Either they’re all wrong or only one is correct.
In the same way that a splice off of a plant isn’t the same plant… The plant it was spliced off of is the same plant, though.
If you plant it again, it isn’t the same plant. Just because Christians, Jews and Muslims claim to have the same creation literature (The Muslims even have a completely different narrative about Abraham) doesn’t mean it’s the same god.
But the plant it came from is.
Christians are also saying that the spliced plant is the same as the donor plant, but the donor plant isn’t different retroactively, and they recognize the donor plant as well.
“The one true god” is not the same god as “The one true god”, or even “The one true god”
Lmao
They are all monotheists. Doesn’t mean they believe in the same “one true god”, just that they have their own separate "one true god"s
Yes we all know that religious people are stupid pedants
slanders religious people
Calls them “stupid pedants” when they attempt to make a defence
They don’t all believe in the same God though. Jews and Christians sort of do, only in part. They at least share the old testament. Muslims have a totally different God though, and totally different texts.
they all technically believe in the same God, in one version said god has a son who sacrificed himself, then Muslims built on that as well.
even though the “vibe” and lore of each God is different, technically they are all the same entity.
Muslims built on that by saying Jesus was never crucified, and someone else died in his place. Christianity is based on Jesus both being crucified and being God. They all disagree on who God is, so they can’t all worship the same God.
Three people all say they saw Santa Claus last night. They each claim they ate cookies with him. First person says Santa told him that chocolate chip cookies were his favorite. Second person says Santa told him peanut butter cookies were his favorite. Third person says Santa told them that Oatmeal cookies were his favorite.
1 none of them ate with Santa and are all lying. Or 2 only one of them ate with the real Santa, and the other two ate with fakes or are lying.
But they did not all eat cookies with the same Santa.
It is fundamentally the same Abrahamic god, but Christians believe in Jesus and the Trinity stuff while Muslims do not.
Christians believe Jesus is God. Jews (non christian Jews that is), and Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God. Therefore all three do jot believe in the same God.
Jews and Muslims have different views about God as well, so while they both may believe that their is one God, they do not believe in the same God.
Muslims believe in Jesus
They believe Jesus was a man who was not crucified. Totally different.
Prophet saved by God
It’s like how not all Christians believe he died on the cross
Actually the hate is mutual. Muslims hate Christians and Jews, but Jews deffinetly hate Muslims and Christians and Christians hate Muslims and Jews. Abrahamic religions are the doom of the humanity.
30 year war entering the chat.
destroy all abrahamic religions for the future of humanity
but didn’t he free the slaves?
happy Pesach and all that
if only
Wait until you hear about Christians’ conflicts with other Christians! Also a lot of Islamist terror is directed at Muslims who follow Mohammed’s teachings the wrong way.
There are hundreds (likely actually thousands) of Christian denominations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Gonna need a lot more arms.
Doesn’t Islam also have multiple different sub-cults within that hate eachothers?
Islam isn’t unique in that way. The history of Christianity is just various groups fighting over how to believe correctly.
Absolutely
Sunni and Shia are not a 70s pop duo.
It’s more like the whole Muslim world vs Iran/Iraq
Was flabbergasted when I found out that there was a straight up murderous hate between different sets of Christianity. You can tell the book is the perfect word of a divine being, since it spawned so many different mutually exclusive interpretations
The vast majority of denominational split is over Church structure. The Bible isn’t really clear on how to run a Church or the very specifics (classic one: when Jesus said “this is my body”, how do we interpret that?) yet it’s quite clear over the important issues- that Jesus, who is God, died for the remission of sins.
Honestly, God designed the bible, not so much that it would have many different interpretations, but that certain truths would be hidden from those that do not belong to Him. Just like when Jesus told parables, they weren’t understandable by everyone for the same reason.
There have been actual crusades inside europe against the ‘wrong’ type of christians
I dont think any Christian who has a sliver of religious education considers the bible to be the word of God. For starters some of the Gospels that are canon already start with an explanation that this is a recollected account. Then there is other chapters like the letters to the Romans and so on. As for the Torah it is also clear that it is containing some revelations but also a lot of interpretation and chronicles.
This is fundamentally different to the Quran, which we Muslims believe to be the word of God as revealed to the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) and preserved in full and in the original Arabic language. Also Muslims are obliged to treat Christians and Jews (people of the book) kindly and respectfully, unless persecuted or attacked by them.
Christians don’t believe that the Bible is the literal spoken word of God. Jesus is The Word.
We believe in “divine inspiration” that everything written in it is appointed to be written by God through human authors - that God intended for man to write and compile it. But in reality it’s 65 separate works.
The Bible is more of a parallel to Mohammed and Jesus moreso a parallel to the Qur’an if you compare them.
There’s nothing Christians/Muslims/Jews hate more than slightly different variety of Christians/Muslims/Jews. The other 2 are far behind.
Guess leftists had to learn it from someone.
The denomination wars are real
I was told by nuns in catholic school that we had more in common with Jews than with Lutherans.
It’s all about who the most important prophet is, and anyone that disagrees is wrong and we hate them.
Religion is wild.
To be a bit pedantic but Christians don’t believe Jesus was a prophet.
Matthew 21:11
And the crowds replied, “This is Jesus the prophet, from Nazareth in Galilee.”
Context is key I may have done 12 years of theological studies but I’ll be using AI to summarize this
John 8:58: This verse is found in the Gospel of John, where Jesus makes the statement “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Moses and Exodus 3:14: In the Old Testament, God revealed Himself to Moses in a burning bush, declaring, “I AM THAT I AM.” This name, often translated as “I am who I am” or “I will be who I will be,” is a declaration of God’s eternal and self-existent nature, says the Bible Gateway. Jesus’s Claim: By saying “before Abraham was, I AM,” Jesus is claiming to be the same eternal, self-existent God who revealed Himself to Moses. Context: The statement is made in the context of a discussion with Jewish leaders who were disputing his authority. Implications: This verse is a central pillar of Christian theology, affirming Jesus’s divinity and eternal nature. The Jews’ Reaction: The people who heard Jesus make this claim were shocked and disturbed, understanding that it was a direct challenge to their understanding of God’s identity.
This is what makes him not a prophet.
Thanks for your insight, I will study knto that topic deeper. I duckduckgoed whether Jesus was a prophet and that passage was what I found. I think the main argument for prophecy was that he was making grandeous statements about the future that were fulfilled, thus he fits the definition. But I’m just a casual reader and could be wrong.
I think in the context of this thread it’s amazing we could come up with two differing views so quickly.
See my reply to ochi in the other thread. Note I was raised Orthodox and from what I understand, reformist Christian sects do not place as much emphasis on the Trinity
I don’t see how you’ve made your point here. Jesus being a prophet isn’t mutually exclusive with his being the son of god, or so it would seem to a layperson like myself. If he can be the father, the son, and the holy ghost, it stands to reason he can be a prophet. Lots of hats, I believe he wore.
The key point that I’m trying to make here though is that all of the Jewish profits foretold of the Christ and he was the Christ as far as all the Christians see it. However, all of the Jews and islamists would call him a prophet as they do not believe that he was the Christ.
“Prophet” has a specific meaning, it’s not just a soothsayer. Prophecy is tied to the ends of eras, and for the Semitic people, most of their history was, at that point, servitude of one form or another, punctuated by suffering and occasionally vengeful conquest. The Jewish Prophets fortold the Messiah, who would lead them from suffering to paradise.
Christ, in Christian theology, upended that order. He said he was the new Law, and the only way to God was through him. He was pretty clear on the subject. It didn’t take long before new Prophecies came about - but now, the people of God weren’t just a specific tribe, they were potentially the whole species. So the prophecies had to be Apocalyptic.
Christ wasn’t a Prophet. He brought God’s message (according to him and his fans), but he didn’t say jack about the End Times.
Ok, so maybe (depending on the mythology one subscribes to) he wasn’t a Prophet. Nevertheless, it seems inarguable that he was a prophet. Dude was mad prophetic.
Words we use have meaning even if you don’t like them.
In English, the word “prophet” has a deep historical tie to foretelling the end times for Semitic people
It is a specific tradition you can’t just ignore. So when the question of “was Jesus a prophet” comes up, it’s important to be precise. Go ask any theologian if you don’t believe me. Conflating “prophet” with “soothsayer” was a HUGE sticking point when it came to medieval heresies.
I should note, I’m atheist.
And being “mad prophetic” is absurd. JESUS didn’t foretell the end times. He never once talked about what was to come outside extremely vague assertions like “believe in me and you’ll meet God”. If we go by the Gospel, he was clearly Not A Prophet.
Christians are the worst fucking book club I swear…
Really? I’m no expert, but I wouldn’t think being the son of god excluded being a prophet.
The whole point of the holy Trinity is that Jesus is God not separate
My personal head Cannon is that God is nth dimensional programmer /scientist and our universe is equivalent to a simulation running on his computer. He built this place. Gave the people some rolls and was flabbergasted that they continually fucked it up and didn’t listen to the rules. So then he basically uploads himself to The matrix lives for 30 years experiences humanity and realizes that we are fundamentally fucked and forgives us after merging that slice of his consciousness back into the main consciousness.
Old English Crīst, from Latin Christus, from Greek Khristos, noun use of an adjective meaning ‘anointed’, from khriein ‘anoint’, translating Hebrew māšīaḥ ‘Messiah’
I would argue that Jesus, as Christ/Messiah is also a priest and prophet, thus fulfilling all of the various other prophecies about Him. He is these things and more: God’s decisive revelation of Himself to humanity, as well as one who redefines what humanity fundamentally is.
The reason why Christians have a tense relationship with the other “Abrahamic faiths” has to do with the understanding that Jesus is God. To deny Jesus’ divinity, from a Christian standpoint, is to define God apart from Jesus which is not consistent with Christian belief. The other problem comes from the idea (more or less later introduced into Christianity) that anyone who doesn’t believe in Jesus goes to Hell. This idea, so deeply held by many many Christians, actually misses what the gospel is all about: the minute Jesus forgives His murderers, He effectively declares that there’s no sin beyond His ability to forgive. Which means that all of humanity is forgiven, full stop.
Eastern (Orthodox) Christianity has a very interesting and different view: Hell and Heaven are the same place, just experienced differently—“Heaven” for those who love God on His terms, “Hell” for those who demand God behave on their terms. The basic idea there is that, in the end, most people will come face to face with Jesus and go “oh, it’s you! Cool!” and experience Heaven. But there are those who will see Him and still refuse (at least for a time—I believe that the scriptures are pretty clear that God is merciful and patient and that, given enough time, everyone winds up in “Heaven”).
dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
@cm0002
Blow it out your ass.Can you show us on the dolly where cm0002 hurt you?
@Agrivar
you deleted the post another racist hit and run
So starting from a schizophrenic as the lineal foundation resulted in a three headed god concept never contained in any canonical part of their book, the mulligan do-overs completely disconnected from their ancient ways, and the other brother magic tripping LSD globe trotter of the desert. Does that surprise anyone. What is surprising to me is that something so obviously nonsense is still so accepted.
in my personal edgy opinion, religions are a cope & a great tool of control.
They give you hope against the biggest fear ingrained in us - death, and even worse - death being equal for everyone, good person, bad person, both will die. It’s a nice thought to believe that there is fairness to it all, that good actions should be done despite bad actions being easier. It’s a nice thought to believe there is something else after you die, and none of your good (or bad) deeds go unnoticed, that you, a good person, will live in paradise, and your enemies will finally suffer the consequences of what they’ve done.
it also helps bring people together, creates a unified peoppe and a culture of those who believe in the same thing & allows a potential leader to have an easier time rallying everyone towards the same goal.
religion is a wonderful tool for both coping with existential dread, and unifying people. but as a tool it has the capacity for explaining away both good and bad things quite equally (helping poor, crusades, personal growth, bigotry).
what relgion is based on is close to irrelevant, it just has to be something, preferably a good overall story with many smaller stories that teach the common folk how to be a good [insert religious identity]. Try reading ancient Egyptian mythology, i suspect most of that shit was written on heavy doses of psychedelics, and despite how completely insane all of it is - it unified people and was an integral part of the biggest empire of the ancient times.
honestly i don’t want to “debunk” people’s religions, if it’s something that keeps them going then why take it away, i personally tried but failed multiple times at believing in any god, but i can’t lie the existential dread of “one day i will die, no matter how much i managed to achieve, no matter how good of a person i was, i will die the same as every murderer or war criminal, and there will be no justice in that, and then, one day my name will be spoken for the last time, and i will be forgotten” is a heavy thought to bear, no wonder that as a species we’ve always tried to find some reason, any reason, for that not being the case
The receptors for psychedelics aren’t there for no reason, heavy prayer and meditation can trigger similar effects. Substances are just a shortcut, that’s why religion don’t tend to like them. Personally I think that as long as it isn’t used as a crutch it’s totally fine to buy a day pass.
the receptors for psychedelics are the same as normal happiness receptors, just constantly stimulated by the drugs binding to them (similar to SSRI). prayer and meditation can have partially similar effect, fractals, feelings happiness, and even ego death yes, but there is more to psychedelics than those, they can completely alter your perception of reality and thoughts
They give you hope against the biggest fear ingrained in us - death, and even worse - death being equal for everyone, good person, bad person, both will die.
Or they teach us to fear death. Nothing to worry about death unless you will live afterwards forever and take your memories with you. Now you have to make good memories soon.
nah i’m pretty sure evolution taught us to fear death, no species looks like it feels neutral about dying
I view it as slightly better than that interpretation. The Old Testament is what links the three. The interesting thing about the Old Testament is that it was written over a few thousand years starting around the time of two major historical events that could have precipitated what would look like a potential “apocalypse,” to anyone at the time.
The Green Sahara period had just come to an end, denying Egypt what I would imagine was a substantial breadbasket for the Egyptian, and possibly Assyrian Empires. That event may not have directly caused The Bronze age collapse, but they happened quickly enough together, that I would imagine it was a factor.
So in a period of a few hundred years, a savannah that had plentiful game and foraging turned into the largest desert in the world. The Levant went from a seemingly temperate mediterranian climate, aka “the promised land,” to a desert mediterranian climate. All the empires that you know of just collapsed in a period of 150 years. You might just get a bit superstitious, and borrow some ancient creation myths to write down the “history” of your people.
Lots of cultures did this. We know from archeological evidence that the Israelites weren’t ever in Egypt, so everything up to, and including Moses, was made up to try to teach their descendants how to live in this new horrible dying world. It’s just absolute random chance that the Israelite texts survived long enough to spawn the other two belief systems.
There is no archaeological evidence to say the Israelites weren’t in Egypt. In fact, quite the contrary
I’m not going to entertain the fiction of “Christian Scientists.” Show me a real archeological expedition that showed any Israelite pottery in Egypt. There are none. All Israelite pottery and artifacts that have been found, have been in the Levant. They also do not share any similarities to Egyptian pottery or artifacts, and do share iconography with Cannanite pottery and artifacts.
I watched your misinformation video and they presented nothing but supposition.
Why would a captured slave people be producing their own pottery, exactly?
The old testament shows Egyptian influences- Moses’ name is Egyptian, the Ark of the Covenant is Egyptian in design. There is a lack of archeological expeditions either in this field. I don’t really know how you’d definitively prove this.
The green Sahara was gone 5 000 years ago when Egypt barely started being Egypt and long before Assyria, the Bronze Age Collapse happened 3 200 years ago, and the Old Testament started getting written a bit before 600 BCE over a few hundred years. The Egyptians and Assyrians already had their breadbasket, it was the fertile crescent from the Nile to the Tigris and Euphrates, it was not a desert there.
The israelite texts survived because they were written right when some big empires (Babylon and the Achaemenids) came around and then carried them over until the Greeks and Romans came by.
I’d say christians and jews have fairly good relations. christians also don’t really mind muslims. jews hate muslims because of the gaza conflict and vice versa. the most extremist muslims are the only ones doing terrorism as well
Jews don’t hate Muslims. What’s happening in Gaza has nothing to do with religion, and all to do with right wing politics and ego.
The Dome of the Rock seems to be claimed by all three. Abraham attempted to sacrifice his son there, before he was stopped. Muhammed’s ascent to heaven took place there (figuratively, not literally), and Jesus threw the moneymen out of the temple at that location.
I always wondered what is so special about that location.
Muhammed’s ascent to heaven took place there (figuratively, not literally)
Just looked it up, Muhammed died in Medina. I kind of assumed he died somewhere in the the vicinity of Jerusalem and that’s why his name is connected with the Dome of the Rock
The Dome of The Rock isn’t just a nickname for Dwayne Johnson’s head?
Islam and Judaism: this place is holy for important religious reasons
Christianity: this place rocks because Jesus beat up greedy capitalists.
I call it the Tyrant god.
Christians believe Jesus is god and have a Trinity thing going on.
Jews and Muslims have an entirely different concept of god than modern day Christians.
There is at least one Christian religion that believes Jesus is below God, while believing he is the Messiah, Gods son, and much of the rest of the Christian beliefs (Jehovah’s Witnesses). They don’t believe in the Trinity. Holy Ghost/Spirit is just a tool like the force to them, not a distinct person
