cross-posted from: https://lemmit.online/post/5566633
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The original was posted on /r/todayilearned by /u/MechCADdie on 2025-04-04 08:19:11+00:00.
If you don’t want to read here’s a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7i-ievZZiQ&t=22s
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How about no. The only people who will suffer is poor people.
If it makes them angry, to actually do something?
Sometimes we need an example, and hypothetically I think the orange turd getting gadaffid would be a spectacular one.
Jesus says touch the stove.
Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.
Orrrrrr. Putin did study history and manipulated the village idiot to intentionally repeat it by telling said idiot it would make him sooper popyoolar (playing on his personality disorder) and also i will throw you out a fucking window if you dont cuz you owe me all your moneez (russian loans).
Let’s not forget that the Republicans are an army of sycophants with zero capacity to think or act for themselves. Trump is a narcissistic pawn and absolute loser, but even at the highest level of power he’s only a problem because the Republican Party are either spineless cowards or deranged cultists.
Thats supposed to be cautionary, but to the MAGA Nazis, its a Game Plan.
Yes but only the racist parts. They don’t want to repeat the great depression, but are going to because they didn’t actually learn about history.
I have a feeling they learned, and then said “what a great idea to crash the economy. It’s so easy, let’s do it.”
hey asshole, trade wars are good, and easy to win!
i swear to god you can get in line behind our eternally healthy, young, sexy god-king or you can get ooooout
We can’t afford to waste this chance…
There is zero reason to settle for “not trump” we need to use Republican Inaptitude to get a decent progressive in power , there’s zero reason to compromise with Republicans after this shit.
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People are going to say it shouldn’t be her for all the same reasons they said Obama couldn’t win…
AOC is popular enough to get the votes, and she’ll actually fight while in office.
I really hope she runs.
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Who gives a shit?
We could run Dick Cheney and they’d say the same shit about him.
They’re going to say anyone with a D by their name is a fucking communist, it literally doesn’t matter what the fucking Republicans say, and there is no logical reason we should move to the right of our own voters because of what Republicans say.
Because, and I truly hate to break this to you:
Republicans fucking lie and Santa isn’t real.
The problem with Hillary wasn’t Republicans saying she sucked because they were “scared” she lost because no one fucking likes her or her policies.
AOC will never win. No fucking way. America hates women. Sucks but it’s true. You can try to deny this or use mental gymnastics to get around it, but it is absolute fact. If Democrats run another women then they’re toast.
No, Dem voters hate uncharismatic politicians with policy to the right of the Dem voting base.
And Hillary and Harris still almost won because Trump is so shit.
The part that needs to change is not the gender of the candidate
I hope you’re right. I feel this country’s rampant sexism is far worse than its rampant racism. Either way, AOC is facing both forms of bigotry
I’m racist against people who vote to prevent union strikes.
I think that’s called being a good person but don’t bother telling the republicans that
It’s not
Venn diagram of racism and sexism is pretty much a single circle. And they’d treat an old white straight catholic conservative male just as badly.
Don’t listen to the neoliberals who blame Hillary and Harris’ lose on sexism. They lost due to their conservative policies and almost conplete lack of charisma and authenticity.
AOC is essentially the complete opposite in those regards
Thank you for saying this. I’m a pretty aggressive feminist but I think this desire to paint the losses of Harris and Clinton on sexism alone is dangerously reductive. I strongly feel like until neoliberals categorize women losing as an individual losing and not an entire gender losing we won’t have real success there. Like, when McCain lost no one was like: WOE MEN CANT WIN it’s OVER for white men boohoo!!
I hate when they do this boohoo shit over women while running the least charismatic rat fucked campaigns. Wearing pink and holding a sign when they need people wearing red white and blue and open carrying the constitution with brimstone fire.
That being said, I genuinely in my heart think that AOC has a chance. As long as the controlled opposition doesn’t rat fuck her
Look into Ken Martin, there is zero reason for anyone to think he’d stand in front of progress.
And he has final say in the DNC till after the next presidential election.
Seriously, I wouldn’t be optimistic about the DNC if there wasn’t good reason to be.
Ken Martin is Zionist and torch bearer for Israel first rule (Dem candidate victory lower priority) over US. It’s the party’s proud tradition.
Ok I’ll go read about him. Thank for the tip.
I don’t feel very favorable about the DNC. I assume they will purposefully fail
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Hillary lost because of a multi-decade campaign against her by the right wing propaganda machines.
Hillary lost because the only voting demographic that hates her more than Republican voters, is Dem voters.
For valid reasons related to her unpopular policy and zero charisma.
It doesn’t matter how many comments you make denying it, people started paying attention to politics again.
Hot take: you’re both right.
Right-wing spin machine had been after Hillary for years. It severely damaged her campaign.
Hillary had no appeal to 60% of the Dem base. It severely damaged her campaign.
AOC faces the same threat from the right-wing spin machine, but she has good policies to sell to the base.
Sexism and racism will factor in, of course, but the strongest opposing force is the billionaire news outlets.
Didn’t Obama basically have the same platform? If anything, Hillary ran on healthcare for all while Obama didn’t in 2008. He’s certainly more charismatic and had the image of “not a typical politician”, which helped him win that primary, plus but I think he benefited from W’s economic mess and McCain unwillingness to be an asshole on the campaign trail, unlike Trump with Hillary and Kamala
But honestly, I’m speaking anecdotally. It’s been extremely depressing how many people have told me that a woman can’t be president because being on her period will make her nuke china. But maybe people just think it’s okay to be sexist out loud more than racist these days.
Hillary did win the popular vote. By a lot.
People aren’t remotely as sexiest as you think. It’s just that 2% is all it takes to lock in an election pretty well
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You shut your mouth. This is America! We like our guns loud, our cars broken down, our food fried, and our presidents oooooold. If you didn’t grow up playing with one of these, you simply aren’t fit to be president in this country!
She’s why you’re seeing Gavin run further to the right and why Booker pulled off his little stunt. I imagine a few more liberals are going to try and make a big splash in either direction in order to get some camera time before she makes her announcement.
Preferably someone who’s qualified.
Your suggestion then?
Pete
Hegseth? Davidson? Who are you referring to?
This guy called Pete down the pub is a pretty switched on guy. Maybe they mean him.
Guessing Buttigieg
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Go to hell
aaaaand youre wasting the chance
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you are likely the ones this will happen to instead
I don’t know that there’s a ‘we’ here, as the billionaires run the Democratic Party too and have sued for the privilege of holding undemocratic primaries.
With that said, the SHTA precipitating the historic Senate loss isn’t the only historical pattern working against Trump in 2026.
Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden all entered office with control of Congress and lost control at the mid-terms, so it’s highly likely that will happen again.
, as the billionaires run the Democratic Party too
No, neoliberals have held the DNC chair for decades. And they did whatever billionaires said.
The current chair of the DNC is not a neoliberal. He used to be Minnesota’s state chair, and if he acts like he did then he’ll be the most progressive chair we’ve had in 30 years, arguably 50 years.
The fight over the party already happened and the neoliberals lost.
Don’t blame the new guy for what the old guy did
I will believe it matters when I see it, and I’m doubtful 40+ years of masquerading as progressives and ruling as conservatives is going to change anytime soon.
and I’m doubtful 40+ years of masquerading as progressives and ruling as conservatives is going to change anytime soon.
Then it sounds like you’re ignorant both of how the DNC works and Ken Martin’s history running Minnesota’s state party…
The DNC chair is a dictator, he calls all the shots and is accountable to no one. For all intents and purposes the DNC chair is the national party.
It’s been less than two months since Martin took over the DNC. Don’t blame him for what happened before he had total control.
But seriously, look into what Minnesota has been up to. Loads of progressives and turned a battleground into a solid blue state.
His main concern is winning elections, so he doesn’t fight progressives in primaries, because that’s what voters want.
This isn’t blind loyalty. If I didn’t have valid reasons to support the DNC I can assure you I wouldn’t be doing it
Really admire your optimism here, but I’m far too cynical on Dems to think this can work without a whole new party to replace them. The Democrat brand is so incredibly tarnished by corruption and disingenuousness.
While you’re right that the DNC chair does hold a lot of power in the party, I struggle to recall a single instance in my lifetime when any dem held real power and leveraged it effectively to benefit the working class.
instance in my lifetime
Because since Jimmy Carter the DNC chair has been further right than the Dem voters base…
And that stopped being true about two months ago
Did it ever occur to you why about two months ago suddenly mainstream media started being ok criticizing Dems?
The oligarchs want us to fail. Because we just won.
Stop doing what theyre manipulating you into doing
Don’t blame him for what happened before he had total control.
Don’t expect me to ignore 40+ years of history on the basis of mere promises, when broken Democratic promises paved the road to the fascism we’re having to fight today. Frankly, it’s unreasonable, and no one should expect Democrats to do what they say they’re going to do until they demonstrate it.
They are already trying to setup Kamala for 2028. I have zero faith that the Democrats are going to learn anything from their failure
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They don’t want to win. At least not with someone who would bring change. Why would they, they are all multimillionaires.
This is what I’ve been saying too. They made over a billion dollars and they happily lost taking that money to the DNC bank.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. So I’m sure they will do it.
Democrats are fucking retarded. Current leadership in that party are absolute clowns. The second they announce Kamila as a candidate, they already lost.
They are already trying to setup Kamala for 2028.
Who is “they”?
We have a DNC chair that at worst will be impartial.
And Harris has zero chance of winning a fair primary.
The only way a neoliberal can win a primary is if the party hands it to them.
The only way a Republican becomes president, is if the only other choice is a neoliberals.
The only reason the Republicans have the house, is because of “victory fund” bankrupting stat parties.
We really didn’t need much, and we got it. Which is why we desperately need to capitalize and move the Overton window as far left as possible while we can
Dude then the party will hand it to a neoliberal!! What’s so hard to understand? Why are you keeping your head in the sand thinking they’ll be impartial?
The DNC chair is the DNC…
Martin has complete control for the next four years
Like, you just legitimately do not understand what you’re talking about
“Impartial” like when Bernie Sanders was winning, and every Democrat decided to fold for Biden.
Don’t you mean Hillary in 16’
Oh wait. They did it twice.
And the “Liberal MSM” started running “Bernie loves Castro” stories left and right. Hell one of the chucklefucks at “far left MSNBC” said that if Bernie won he’d put people like himself “against the wall” invoking an image of firing squad executions…
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Watch Dems shoot themselves in the foot
Get ready for “we had to pass the $6T in tax cuts for the rich and corporations, simply nothing we could do!” 🤑
It is imminent.
They are robbing us absolutely blind here, and using the tariff chaos as cover.
Someone has either never seen “Ferris Buller’s Day Off,” can’t remember it very well, or didn’t pay attention. This was covered in class!
In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, in an effort to alleviate the effects of the… Anyone? Anyone?.. the Great Depression, passed the… Anyone? Anyone? The tariff bill? The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act? Which, anyone? Raised or lowered?.. raised tariffs, in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government. Did it work? Anyone? Anyone know the effects? It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression. Today we have a similar debate over this. Anyone know what this is? Class? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone seen this before? The Laffer Curve. Anyone know what this says? It says that at this point on the revenue curve, you will get exactly the same amount of revenue as at this point. This is very controversial. Does anyone know what Vice President Bush called this in 1980? Anyone? Something-d-o-o economics. Voodoo economics.
I watched this movie 3-4 times and even when reading this, I’m still spaced out.
Ben Stein just has a voice that makes me tune him out.
Such a great voice for comedy. Shame he’s anti-abortion, pretty racist, pro-Regan and Trump, weirdly against evolution… So many awful perspectives.
weirdly against evolution
You can see his point. Look where it got us, we should have stayed in the sea.
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Or we could just fund the IRS since it’s a profit center.
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Laffer curve in political practice is BS. It is proven that you raise 0 revenue at 100% tax rate because no one is actually paid to work, then. The political distortion is “therefore, always lower taxes for more revenue”.
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nor does it justify any cut after 1983.
That was my point on how it is misused.
proven to be true? that is news to me.
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proven likely true means not proven true. Way to many factors. I personally thing the theory has a sorta merit but is very limited and vague (in the sense of there is no identification of where the exact sweet spot of taxation levels are). For example the punitive measures for not paying taxes at very high levels need to be very severe to curtail such behavior. So five figure owning person or mom and pop shop you give a slap on the wrist. Maybe 10% of owed added. Wealthiest individuals and companies get knocked completely out of their level so like 500% of what was owed.
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I would not even say it worked once in 83. Lower rates are one possible reason but like anything with the economy there are plenty of factors including cyclical changes that could explain it.
So the cut that went into effect in '83 was passed in '81, just before a recession hit. So the US seeing an increase in revenue compared to the few years before that where unemployment was up over 8% and gdp dropping, is really more about the economy recovering than tax policy changes.
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I know it from the Newsroom
Planet Money interviewed the professor who wrote the book from which Ben Stein is reading in that scene.
It ia an older episode they re-air periodically. I think this one:
https://www.npr.org/2024/12/11/1218506684/worst-tariffs-ever-update
They also didn’t have fox news at that time :/
trump won’t for much longer…
Being ruled by billionaires works both ways I guess lol one can only hope.
Even Fox viewers can’t hide from their credit card balance. At least I hope that’s the case.
They had newspapers owned by William Randolph Hearst, who pretty much invented the “yellow press”. And whose story is eerily similar to Musk’s, including a sudden swing from progressivism to far right nationalism.
There is some nuance here. Smoot-Hawley didn’t cause the great depression, and there a lot of economists who say it didn’t have that much of an effect at all.
Tarriffs can have some useful effects when used for protectionism, diplomatic coercion, or trade barrier reduction coercion. However, Trump’s tariffs are way dumber than anything that came before, because he’s trying to do all three of these at once. All of these have conflicting effects on each other, and it is literally impossible to design a tariff strategy that can accomplish all three, since raising a tariff for one purpose means that you need to lower tariffs for other purposes. All he’s doing by raising across the board is causing instability in the economy and convincing all partners to ditch the US.
This is what is funny for me. I would like tariffs to discourage trade with countries that have less democracy, rights for its citizens, and high income disparity (which unfortunately we are not a paragon of currently) and encourage trade with countries that are the reverse of that.
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There is some contention about whether this can necessarily be attributed to the tariff. The Great Depression was already in motion before Smoot-Hawley, mainly due to financial instability, falling demand, and poor banking practices. However, the tariff worsened the crisis by shrinking global trade, hurting farmers, and reducing employment in export-dependent industries. Had it not passed, the Depression still would have occurred, but perhaps with less severity.
Monetarists, such as Milton Friedman, who emphasized the central role of the money supply in causing the depression, considered the Smoot–Hawley Act to be only a minor cause of the Great Depression in the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot–Hawley_Tariff_Act
yeah maybe my nuance leaned too much to the no side, but I wanted to explain tariffs a bit. Trump tariffs are not protectionism or coercion, they’re just stupid.
“both sides” but the two sides are “it was bad” and “it was disastrously bad”
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I was thinking about the protectionism though… like in order for the tariff to work, the us would have to also manufacture the good that is being tariffed. But we don’t produce a lot here…and also even if we did… i guarantee the us business would jack up the prices to be competitive with the foreign price After tariffs and pocket the money. Making the whole thing moot.
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Yea no matter how you slice it, there are no good use of tariffs, and if one were to insist, then it would only be like just barley enough to push up the price above parity, and only on very select items. But then if the other country does it back it goes in favor to the nation that is more industrial.
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The soybean tariffs, china found other countries quite quickly into counter the tariffs, and they largely abandoned the US of soybeans export
No one thing triggered it but the tarifs contributed almost as much as the out of control stock market. All the controls put in place to prevent this have been changed. So stupid tarifs(Are there any other kind) and a unregulated market system has us primed for some serious times.
So stupid tarifs(Are there any other kind)
There are some that work in order to protect national interests, mainly local producers and services. Whether they are stupid or not depends on implementation and end results
But these local companies just jack up their price to be competitive to the new tariffed foreign price and pocket the money.
Tarriffs can have some useful effects
Europe has a some tariffs on Chinese EV brands. The reason is that they get subsidized by their government and can easily dump them on our markets, ruining our own industries. The tariff calculation is based on what we think those subsidies are and how to make it fair compared to our prices.
All he’s doing is exactly what Putin wants. Systematically isolating and weakening America while weakening the West at large and any other competing countries to his power and new accumulation of wealth.
Any relation to Jumpin’ Josh?
Yeah, but back then they still had elections.
Smoot-Hawley 2: Electric Boogaloo
Not the second time but some are saying this one is similar to two others including smoot-hawley that triggered a huge economic downturn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_Abominations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tariff_laws_in_the_United_States
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We got a Progressive Era out of it
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Jim Crow
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Japanese Internment
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Religious revivalism
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The Wars on Crime / Drugs / Terror / Immigration, leading to the highest incarceration rate in the world
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Two major Red Scares and a collapse in union membership
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Intercontinent Ballistic Missiles with nuclear warheads
Some progress.
For what it is worth, Jim Crow predated and outlasted the Progressive Era in the US. I wouldn’t so much apply causation there.
But it also ended in the 20s. It mainly achieved Women’s suffrage in the US.
But it also ended in the 20s.
Okay, so you’re talking about the 1890s-1920s “Progressive” Era of Prohibition and Sufferage.
Not the 1930s-70s New Deal / Great Society period of progressivism that was great for middle class white people and maybe a little less great for African Americans, East Asians, and American Natives who had to claw their way into a post-industrial standard of living against all the best efforts of the settlers.
Again, I might suggest you look back at the history of the T.Roosevelt to Wilson administration and reconsider whether this is the benchmark for progress you’ve been sold on.
Okay, so you’re talking about the 1890s-1920s “Progressive” Era of Prohibition and Sufferage.
Yeah, as that’s what that time period is called: “Progressive Era”.
Not the 1930s-70s New Deal / Great Society period of progressivism
No, I am not referring to the period following Prohibition Era and the Great Depression which was an intermediate (1920s-1930s) before New Deal.
If you’re taking issue with the ‘Progressive Era’ being called ‘Progressive’ then sure. I get you then. It mostly just achived women’s suffrage as a meaningful milestone, as I said.
Yeah, as that’s what that time period is called: “Progressive Era”.
The top level comment is referring to the New Deal/Great Society period, which followed the depression and the tariffs that the post itself is referencing. There’s some confusion because “Progressive Era” was capitalized in that top level comment, but that’s not what they were actually referencing.
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Before that was slavery.
Before Jim Crow was Reconstruction, which was the real Progressive Era for African Americans. The Freedman’s Bureau, elections overseen by the Union Army where black citizens were guaranteed a vote, mass migration out of southern plantations and into the industrialized north, and real (abet fleeting) economic progress for the millions of newly liberated peoples.
War on Drug and War on Terror happened at the-end-of/after the New Deal Progressive Era
The Federal War on Drugs began with the Smoking Opium Exclusion Act of 1909, squarely in the thick of the Roosevelt/Wilsonian Prohibitionist period. You could argue that prohibition wars were going on decades earlier, at the state level. Similarly, the War on Terror was an outgrowth of the War on Crime, which has its roots back to the post-Reconstruction South and the prison exclusion of the 13th Amendment.
Progressiveism and Regressiveism is always in a tug-of-war
The liberal/conservative tug-of-war over popular support for government is a tug-of-war. But the underlying policies have a strong through-line going back over a century. Policing, surveillance, and the administrative state bloat with each new administration, following different rhetorical lines but always moving towards the same effective end.
Monarchies have fallen, eventually Oligarchies will fall.
Monarchies rose and fell for thousands of years prior. They did not end, they only changed their form. Regional and sectoral dictatorships are alive and well in the modern era, from explicit Kingdoms in the Middle East to vertically integrated monopolies governed by tyrannical CEOs in the West.
The only exceptions are where popular movements have successfully revolutionized the government, democratized capital, and hedged out foreign financial parasites.
The United States is not one such place.
I mean yeah. That’s the cyclic nature of politics, we learn a lesson and get a bit better, forget that lesson, get away worse, only to overcorrect and end up better than the first. We move pretty consistently leftward politically globally but only as a reaction to incredible periodic swings to the right.
We move pretty consistently leftward politically globally but only as a reaction to incredible periodic swings to the right.
This is simply not true. We advance technologically and we often mistake the mass media that comes out of these advances as social progress. But what we have historically endured over the last two centuries has been liberal rhetoric whitewashing much more reactionary and authoritarian policy than what our ancestors endured.
The long march has not been towards progress, but towards progressive pastiche.
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Tell me, do you think a Black person is safer living 100 years ago in the USA, than today’s USA?
Thanks to modern technological innovations, sure. Clean air/water, safer public transit, vaccines, etc go a long way towards improving quality of life for everyone, including the bottom of the social hierarchy. But has a black person in 2025 enjoyed the same degree of prosperity as a white peer over the intervening years? Absolutely not, and for the same reasons. They’re more predisposed to experience tainted air/water, they are comparatively less safe traveling, they have diminished access to modern medicine like vaccines and prenatal care, etc, etc.
And this is a deliberate function of public policy. The sky-high arrest rate of African Americans (particularly while traveling) is the result of a Nixon Era campaign to over-police black and brown neighborhoods that every subsequent executive and governor seems to have endorsed. The higher rates of cancer, the higher rates of obesity and malnutrition, the higher rates of disease transmission and mortality from preventable illness or injury all stem from eugenics policies pioneered in the OG Progressive Era. Even some of the pseudoscientific theories around mental, physical, and social aptitudes have endured.
it’s no where was common as before
The arrest rates of black men peaked in the 90s, during the height of the Reagan War on Crime. They’ve fallen off somewhat in comparison to arrests and harassment of hispanics and east asians, but are nowhere close to comparable to white peers. This is downwind of the reactionary media hijacking progressive language and ideology and weaponizing it against a population that its leadership believes is subhuman.
What we have in the modern era is rationalization of reactionary policy in progressive terms. The propaganda we experience is caped in progressive language. But the goals are the exact opposite.
There is no legitimate argument that we haven’t moved leftward over the last thousand or so years.
So progress that only seems like progress but progress is progress boss. I’m not sure what exactly you’re arguing but so far it seems… Outlandish and removed from reality.
There is no legitimate argument that we haven’t moved leftward over the last thousand or so years.
The colonial era of the 1400s to 1900s resulted in an industrial scale enclosing, enslaving, and extermination of entire ethnic cohorts. This was not a leftist move by any definition. It was 500 years of settler colonialism which resulted in some of the most abysmal living conditions in recorded history.
We have not yet recovered from this massive global reconfiguration of human society. While we enjoy more advanced tools and industrial scale infrastructure, we remain both socially and physically less independent of our authoritarian oligarchs than we were prior to the European Imperialist Era.
So progress that only seems like progress but progress is progress boss.
We have a modern economic system that produces more homes than people, while guaranteeing a certain population will remain homeless their entire lives. We have a system that produces enormous surpluses of food, but guarantees a segment of the population will remain malnurished. We have a system that produces vast excesses of professional expertise, but guarantees only a fraction of the population can access professional services.
All of our shortages are manufactured. Trump’s latest tariff wave is the most blindingly obvious example of how these shortages are imposed - not even via some convoluted market mechanism, but through the whims of an authoritarian madman.
This is not progress in a social sense. It is a huge regression from our historical roots. We are prisoners of the state and of the economy, subject to arrest, torture, and execution at the whim of the local leadership. And the only reason you and I are not personally under a boot right now is because we haven’t been targeted yet.
we remain both socially and physically less independent of our authoritarian oligarchs than we were prior to the European Imperialist Era.
Horseshit opinion.
You described literal progress only to say it’s the illusion of progress. You aren’t even making logical sense.
You described literal progress only to say it’s the illusion of progress.
I’m describing the systematic roll-back of free travel, free trade, and freedom of individuals to co-mingle absent legal barriers.
We need paperwork to cross borders. We need documentation to legally accept offers for work. We need licenses from the state to formalize marriage. We can be arrested, detained indefinitely, and subject to physical and psychological abuse without so much as an official reason by state officials. We can be conscripted into war, extorted for our wages, and deprived of our homes and personal effects at the whims of state officials.
And to top it all off, we have an entire industrial education establishment that compels us to repeated the dogged lies that this is progress. We have state-sponsored celebrations intended to lionize our enslavers. We have parades of security service workers through the center of our townships, paid for with wealth looted from our own pockets, to drive home how occupied we all are.
How the fuck is that progress?
You really picked random negatives from a bunch of different decades?
Jim Crow
Already existed before that era and ended during it
Religious revivalism
The Wars on Crime / Drugs / Terror / Immigration, leading to the highest incarceration rate in the world
These things only really happened in the 80’s, marking the end of the New Deal/Keynesian era.
Japanese Internment
Two major Red Scares and a collapse in union membership
Legitimate criticisms.
Japanese Internment Two major Red Scares and a collapse in union membership
Legitimate criticisms
No they’re not. Those two things were caused by far greater international factors. Like, you know, the 2nd World War.
In the 1970s, under mounting pressure from the Japanese American Citizens League (JACL) and redress organizations, President Jimmy Carter appointed the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians (CWRIC) to investigate whether the internment had been justified. In 1983, the commission’s report, Personal Justice Denied, found little evidence of Japanese disloyalty and concluded that internment had been the product of racism. It recommended that the government pay reparations to the detainees. In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed the Civil Liberties Act of 1988, which officially apologized and authorized a payment of $20,000 (equivalent to $53,000 in 2024) to each former detainee who was still alive when the act was passed. The legislation admitted that the government’s actions were based on “race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership.”
You’re literally to the right of Ronald Reagan on this.
As for the Red Scare, I appreciate the honesty of a .world mod siding with Joseph McCarthy explicitly instead of just following his example in practice while pretending to be leftist.
The comment you’re responding to really doesn’t seem to be condoning those things; the thing being argued here is whether there was a push in a progressive direction, you said these events are evidence against that, which they countered with the idea that war has a regressive influence, something your quote is supporting.
really doesn’t seem to be condoning those things
Exactly: total failure of reading comprehension. Acts like bro saying that bad thing doesn’t support a conclusion means bro now endorses bad thing. Wut?
The comment you’re responding to really doesn’t seem to be condoning those things
Then criticizing those things would be legitimate. To disagree that there’s legitimate criticism regarding those issues is to condone them.
the thing being argued here is whether there was a push in a progressive direction, you said these events are evidence against that, which they countered with the idea that war has a regressive influence, something your quote is supporting.
The fact that there were other factors pushing relatively progressive figures to do fucked up stuff doesn’t mean that the stuff they did wasn’t fucked up or that they shouldn’t be criticized for it. The New Deal/Great Society era was a progressive era but it was also very imperfect and it’s valid to critique the ways in which it failed certain groups of people.
I’d also point out that it cuts both ways, in addition to the factors pushing them towards regressive policies, their progressivism was also somewhat attributable to external factors. Even FDR wasn’t really so much of a believer in “big government,” in fact there were times when he tried to roll back aspects of the New Deal during the Depression. He was just someone who was responsive to the conditions of the time and willing to deviate from economic orthodoxy in order to respond to crises. Had FDR been president during different conditions, he might have been an unremarkable president, or perhaps he might have pushed for progressive policies but been stopped by institutional forces. The threat posed by communism may have also contributed to such reforms being implemented and permitted, out of a sense of self preservation.
I’m down to look at history through that lens, but if we’re gonna do that we have to do it consistently, not just with regards to people we like doing bad things.
Then criticizing those things would be legitimate. To disagree that there’s legitimate criticism regarding those issues is to condone them.
If what you meant by “legitimate criticisms” was to say that criticism of these policies themselves is legitimate, that’s an extremely confusing way to say it given the context (both previous comments and the first part of your own comment), it very much sounds like you were saying something entirely different. I don’t think it’s fair to assume that someone objecting to your statement is objecting to that meaning of it.
My apologies, I guess I wasn’t clear enough. My point was that it’s unfair to blame those things as results of progressive policies.
But hey, thanks for the gross mischaracterization of my perspective.
My point was that it’s unfair to blame those things as results of progressive policies.
Who said that? What I see is someone critiquing the progressive New Deal era for not fully living up to progressive ideals. Nobody’s claiming that New Deal policies caused Japanese internment.
It seems to me that you’re the one jumping to conclusions and making assumptions here. I’m just straightforwardly responding to the claim that criticism of internment is illegitimate, if you don’t want people to assume that you support internment, try not dismissing criticism of it.
Please allow me to clarify my perspective on this discussion.
This commenter associated a bunch of effects with the progressive era.
You then replied with a thoughtful response that questioned most of their points.
But then you wrote
Japanese Internment Two major Red Scares and a collapse in union membership
Legitimate criticisms.
At this point, I read that as you acknowledging those two points as legitimate criticisms against the progressive era. This is what I disputed. I think those are unfair criticisms, as far as I understood the words you wrote.
This is all I said. I’ve jumped to no other conclusions. I’ve said nothing against you or your character. I’ve made no other assumptions. I simply wrote a response based off the words you used.
I see you’ve further clarified your perspective as well, and understand that we’re of the same perspective on the matter. You have no need to be so defensive anymore, my dude.
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Germany got fascism out of the economic collapse.
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The largest Senate loss in history yet
Those that don’t know history are destined to have a nice day.
I’ll just leave this here then: https://www.hiddendominion.com/sir-glubbs-250-year-hypothesis-on-the-duration-of-great-nations/
They did not have computerized voting back then, it was paper ballots mostly. Until then I fully expect the same voting patterns as the last generation to continue; yes, democrats will win more at the mid terms. No, little will change. I fully expect democrats to win solid majorities in both houses in 2026.
Americans, as a group, should look at exit polls and understand them, and use paper ballots as the rule, not the exception. Until then, it’s just an oligarchy. And they don’t have our backs .
But I don’t think it will change any time soon
There’s no way in fucking hell that Democrats win the Senate in 2026. Absolutely not. Senate will be GOP majority for the foreseeable future. As for the House, yes, they’ll likely win pretty big there in 2026.
You would be correct if the majority of USA states fairly counted the ballots. But if not, there is no reason to prevent a double chamber majority. In fact, it’s necessary then, because it derails paper ballot efforts.
This is a long game, so to speak. There will still be dem presidents later too.
What people who decry fascism tend to overlook is that the country has not been a democracy for a while. This is all theater on a grand scale, for decades, and we are the audience
I’ll be honest. I have absolutely no idea what you’re trying to say. Dems are not winning the Senate in 2026. There is no way dude.
And that is why I am going to clean up on the betting markets. More seriously, anyone thinking of this exchange only need compare exit polls for all the states, in general and primaries.
I remember when exit polls used to be talked about a lot in the 1970s. But I think most people reading will be puzzled about why I harp on a type of polling.
Likewise I think finding exit poll results might be challenging these days in the USA. Which is a pity, indeed
Proof yet again that “business leaders” typically don’t know shit about shit.
The so called geniuses of business have a better batting average than the average person but they are still prone to the same fuck ups and emotionally driven foolishness as anyone else. I was reading about the Theranos scam and how many supposed brilliant corporate leaders all threw big money at it without taking the time to investigate it first.
If you have Hulu or sail the seven seas, check out “The Dropout” which is a mini-series about Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes.
I had never heard of it before but I now just finished watching it after reading your recommendation and it was really great, thank you!
You’re welcome. Glad you enjoyed it.
This guy is no business leader- he bankrupt his own casinos multiple times and just stiffs people on payment. He’s a grifter who happened to be born into money
They LOVE massive depressions. They buy up real estate and failing companies cheap with their massive cash reserves.
It is all 1000% on purpose.
They intend to ride it out and profit from all of this, and we’ll let them due to cowardice and division.