• boonhet@lemm.ee
      0·
      3 days ago

      You must not have been to the tankieverse then.

      I don’t remember if it was /r/sino or some even further authleft sub, but they had literal manuals in their subreddit wiki for debating non-tankies on thinks like the Uyghur genocide. Similarly, fediverse tankies pretend that China and Russia (which doesn’t even pretend to be a communist country) can do no wrong and if you oppose anything they do, you’re just “spreading state dept talking points” (If you DO say you’re also against the palestinian genocide, not just the war in Ukraine, they ignore that part).

      Personally I blocked some of their most prominent communities and posters. Thing is, you’re on lemmy.world which I believe is already defedrated from lemmygrad and hexbear (they absolutely loathed .world users too). My instance admin believes in free speech and peoples’ right to choose which communities they see or block, so we’re not defederated from those instances and until I blocked them, it was an absolute cesspool in my feed.

      Here is the lemm.ee thread discussing potential defederation in august 2023. .world had already defederated by then so it’s possible you joined after your instance had already defederated, I guess.

      Here’s an excerpt:

      Coming back to the events of the past few days: soon after my removal of the comment containing the symbol from the meta thread, two posts popped up on hexbear. One was focused on insulting and spreading lies about me personally. Another was focused on diminishing the horrors of the soviet occupation in my country. In the comments under both of these posts (and in a few other threads on hexbear), I noticed some seriously disturbing bigotry against my people. There were comments which reflected the anti-Estonian propaganda of the current Russian state, things like:

      - Suggesting that my people has no right to exist
- Stating that my people (and other Baltic nations) are subhuman
- Claiming that anybody critical of both nazi and soviet occupations is themselves a nazi and a holocaust denier

      It is noteworthy that the hexbear admins at least agreed that this shit was way too much and stepped in. But this should give you an idea of what kind of people are out there.

      • AshMan85@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 days ago

        these people you are talking about are trash. the problem is, and what everyone here is talking about is centrists calling leftists “tankies” even though the are in no way a “tankie” just we are against authoritarianism (which is the opposite of a tankie)

        • boonhet@lemm.ee
          0·
          3 days ago

          To be fair, it’s also the tankies that are saying anyone further right of them is a shitlib.

          I do agree with you that there are plenty of people that are leftists and NOT tankies. I’m one of them. Genocide is bad regardless of the economic system of the country performing it. Authoritarianism is bad whether it’s left- or right-wing.

    • Dozzi92@lemmy.world
      0·
      3 days ago

      I have. In the past couple weeks I’ve had to bring up multiple times how the opinion on Reddit six years ago, when Tencent invested, was concern that China would begin to sway the opinions on the site. Fast forward and here I am reminding folks of that as they ostensibly shill for China. It’s complete insanity.

  • apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 days ago

    All genocide is indefensible. Fuck authoritarians, be it Israel, Russia, China, the US, etc. Each have committed genocides to extend their authoritarianism.

  • Naevermix@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 days ago

    The Chinese oppression of the Uyghurs is not the same as the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, which is an actual genocide.

  • daggermoon@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 days ago

    Okay, but the word tankie is so overused that it’s lost all meaning. I saw libertarians using it. You don’t want to use the same insult as libertarians do you?

    • terusgormand8465@lemmings.worldOP
      0·
      3 days ago

      It is being used as a descriptive term for people who support authoritarian regimes and frame themselves as left-leaning. Idc how libertarians use it.

            • terusgormand8465@lemmings.worldOP
              0·
              3 days ago

              You’re trying to argue that tankie doesn’t mean anything anymore. I’m saying it has a clearly defined definition, and you said you know what it is, acknowledging that that is what it means, therefore we’re on the same page. You never voiced your opinion on how you feel on tankies or what they do so I don’t know what your opinion is. Only your opinion on the definition.

              • daggermoon@lemmy.world
                0·
                3 days ago

                Okay I didn’t mean it literally lost all meaning. As for my opinion of the people you refer to as tankies, they piss me off. I believe they are either misinformed or they only choose to see what they wish. I prefer to call them China / North Korea / Russia dick suckers.

    • terusgormand8465@lemmings.worldOP
      0·
      3 days ago

      Hmmm… 🤔

      Lemme guess, you don’t think it’s real? I’m guessing you don’t since you said “whatever you think China is doing” instead of “whatever China is doing” trying to brush it off as opinion or imagination rather than factual events and occurrences.

      • OmegaLemmy@discuss.online
        0·
        3 days ago

        The cultural genocide that china is doing to these people seem to be the same as those that turkey does in afrin and Kurdistan taking apart the Kurdish groups with internal opposition and separating their experiences and renaming them as Turkish and forcing specific things onto these groups acting as if it is in good will and that is why autonomy is important for regions of high diversity and should be replicated in Bulgaria, Romania, China, Sweden, Finland and Spain if you already done.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
        0·
        3 days ago

        I’m open to the possibility that Chinese law enforcement has some kind of racial/ethnic bias against a minority group or that the anti-extremism campaign has had excesses, but comparing that to the systematic campaign of starvation and slaughter being carried out by Israel is absurd. I say “whatever you think China is doing” because you seem to think you can compare it to the modern Holocaust happening right now. Is China butchering people by the thousands? Are they starving a million children to death?

  • Armand1@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 days ago

    Do these people exist or are they just strawmen? I’ve not really ever encountered so-called “tankies”.

    Every left leaning person I’ve actually met are against authoritarianism.

    • boonhet@lemm.ee
      0·
      3 days ago

      TL;DR: You’re on lemmy.world which has defederated from the main instances these types of people and their communities are on.

      Longer answer: Read my response to the other commenter who didn’t think tankies existed here

    • afronaut@slrpnk.netEnglish
      0·
      3 days ago

      It’s far more complicated than a simple meme can convey.

      But, ML’s typically believe a vanguard party will seize the state on behalf of the proletariat and usher in a socialist state that will take an undetermined amount of time to transition into a communist state-less society.

      When the CCP is doing the same thing to Uyghur Muslims that Israel is doing to Gazans, which is to violate the rights and freedoms of people who do not perfectly align with their ideology, they exhibit cognitive dissonance. I’m an anarchist and know very well how Marxist-Leninists feel about us. We’ve been betrayed in Catalonia, Ukraine, and Kronstadt. We are fundamentally opposed to any kind of authoritarian rule and they kind of need that rule to begin their socio-political experiment.

    • Aux@feddit.ukEnglish
      0·
      3 days ago

      Lemmy is full of tankies. It’s pretty much their personal echo chamber at this point.

        • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          0·
          3 days ago

          If you keep away from certain instances and communities, it’s not too hard to avoid them.

          Blocking users helps too. Lemmy is still small enough to curate your experience significantly by blocking users you don’t want to see.

          You also should consider that tankies isn’t what this group calls themselves.

        • Pilferjinx@lemmy.world
          0·
          3 days ago

          Are you talking specifically in this community or instance? Just go venture into the tankie triad for that nonsense.

          • AshMan85@lemmy.world
            0·
            3 days ago

            i am talking in this community. more so, why would i willing venture in tankieness? just to prove you right? no, that is on you

          • oyo@lemm.ee
            0·
            3 days ago

            World has defederated from the worst instances, so this sweet summer child may have their innocence intact.

      • belastend@slrpnk.net
        0·
        3 days ago

        As far as tankies are concerned, everyone not glazing Stalin or Mao is a shitlib or a centrist.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          3 days ago

          Stalin and Mao are both dead. Their ghosts are not in the room with us right now.

          netanyahu is still alive and committing genocide, much to your delight.

    • theneverfox@pawb.socialEnglish
      0·
      3 days ago

      They do exist… They’re over at Lemmygrad.ml, I ventured over when I had the same question

      Their ideology is a mess, they don’t have a roadmap beyond “workers of the world unite, then we’ll figure everything out”. And some of them think China and Russia are communist, or at least socialist… Which first off, they’re not, but more importantly they’re authoritarian regimes, which gets glossed over

      It’s a fraction of the left, and a fraction of them are so focused on America bad they ignore what China does, and a fraction of them outright deny China or Russia have ever done anything wrong… I’ve encountered them online, but it’s very rare - especially if you don’t go looking for them

    • gravityowl@lemm.eeEnglish
      0·
      3 days ago

      Do these people exist or are they just strawmen? I’ve not really ever encountered so-called “tankies”.

      They’re strawmen. If you look at this user’s profile, you see that they’re just a troll, waiting to get banned for going on ML instances and basically begging to be banned so that we can all see “how evil the evil commies truly are”.

      Every left leaning person I’ve actually met are against authoritarianism.

      And so are “tankies”. It’s just that people are unwilling to have nuanced and complex conversations. And instead of really engaging with different ideologies, a lot of people just result to name calling

    • TTH4P@lemm.ee
      0·
      3 days ago

      I have this guy tagged as “divides the left at any cost”, for what that’s worth. :)

    • Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.orgEnglish
      0·
      3 days ago

      There’s shitloads of them. I’ve seen them online in communism forums and I’ve even had the misfortune of meeting tankies irl on several occasions. It’s like listening to that North Korean newswoman.

    • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      0·
      3 days ago

      I have only seen them online. I figure they are trolls or bots.

      But I do think that China has a better human rights record than the US and Israel.

      They are still evil in how they treat Uyghurs, Tibetans and democracy activists. They definitely use torture on dissidents.

      But it’s not that difficult to be better than slavery, genocide, war and colonialism. And the US and Israel also use torture.

      So maybe I am the tankie that OP refers to.

      • TronBronson@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 days ago

        I’m a was aproud american and I won’t sit around and defend slavery colonialism etc. I don’t think your a tanky. It’s not an unpopular opinion to detest our histroy of slavery…yet. A tanky is usually outwardly violent and inwardly hypocritical. Their ideologies conflict with their words, and written/lived history. They are called tankies because they cheer the tanks rolling over protestors of communism. Just like the MAGA movement. It’s just a horseshoe away. There is no moral boundaries when it comes to pushing ideology. Tankies are the nazis of the far left, they are genocide lovers. They just want to genocide away opposing ideologies.

      • ahornsirup@feddit.org
        0·
        3 days ago

        Ah, yes. The Uyghur genocide: famously free of genocide.

        not that difficult to be better than slavery, genocide, war and colonialism

        Apparently it is, because other than constant wars China does all of those things.

        • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          0·
          3 days ago

          The Uyghur genocide is better described as a cultural genocide, not a real genocide.

          It is still awful, still bad. But it doesn’t involve large scale murder and it doesn’t meet the criteria used to qualify as a legal genocide.

          In contrast, the Gaza genocide is definitely a genocide, as was the trail of tears.

          • TronBronson@lemmy.world
            0·
            3 days ago

            Lol bro they are exterminating the Uyghurs faster than the palestinians. How is palestine a serious genocide by your standards if its been going on for 80 years with less results than 8 years in china?

            Trail of tears didn’t take 80 years. they exterminated the natives. Holocaust didn’t take 80 years. But isreals comitting the slowest moving genocide in history? While being constantly attacked?

            • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              0·
              3 days ago

              Genocide is not just about numbers. If the Bosnian genocide qualifies as a genocide, then Gaza definitely qualifies too.

              In my view, the Gaza genocide is also worse than the Holocaust in many respects. For one, most Germans didn’t know about, or support, genocide, nor did the Nazi’s have any kind of democratic mandate.

              Whereas in the US and Israel, this is the first time a democracy is committing genocide with popular support.

              By all accounts, China isn’t killing Uyghurs, but re-educating them.

          • jj4211@lemmy.world
            0·
            3 days ago

            The comment said point blank that China does slavery and colonialism. For wars, they refer to recent history and that’s largely accurate in recent history (at least directly, indirectly they supply and offset Russian military presence), they haven’t used direct military force to get what they want yet. Largely because people would just give them pretty much whatever they wanted for economic considerations. Biggest potential place for things to boil over directly would be if they finally went into Taiwan.

      • cm0002@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 days ago

        They are still evil in how they treat Uyghurs, Tibetans and democracy activists. They definitely use torture on dissidents.

        Nah, you’re not a tankie if you’re saying that earnestly.

        Tankies defend the CCP/Russia no matter what, it’s always they’ve done nothing wrong and if they did, it wasn’t that bad, and if it was that bad, it was just “western propaganda” so it isn’t true.

        I’ve seen (and documented) them saying that “they’re just reeducation camps, they’re not that bad and it’s done anyways so ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯” and allowing Russian propaganda that their invasion “was just a diplomatic maneuver”

        You’re just bringing an argument “I think X is bad, but not worse than Y because Z”