Credit: u/manchesterMan0098
I’ll take both please.
Yeah this interaction is really weird. I don’t agree with the second guys statement at all. Wanting to be in a relationship is a perfectly normal thing to want and isn’t mummy issues.
Where does the woman go when she needs to be nurtured and have her batteries restored? Men aren’t the only ones fighting battles out there. In a healthy relationship, you’re supporting each other.
Also, not everybody is looking for a woman who is “soft” or “feminine”. Maybe I want somebody who’s a rough-and-tumble badass. I have a feeling that kind of a person would be a better support for my personality.
It’s also worth noting…you shouldn’t be using your partner as your therapist. If you’re constantly trauma-dumping on somebody, it isn’t fair to them, and it isn’t fair to you, because they aren’t trained in how to help you like a therapist is. Sure, cry on their shoulder when life is hard and all that, but if you’re having mental health problems, go see somebody who’s board-certified.
The post didn’t mention it has to be one-sided. A helpful and healthy answer for those concerned of reciprocity could be along the lines of “it’s cool, but I’d like to add women need support no less than men. Also, preferences may differ, so overgeneralizing on what men want isn’t right”.
Let’s also add “Sometimes, men do need a therapist”.
Tbh nothing was said about “men” not reciprocating that same function. We are all discussing based on assumptions, but I think it’s totally fair to have someone with whom you can discuss the daily hardships of life, vent and share the burdens, while feeling loved. Obviously, you also have to be that person for your partner. I also wouldn’t categorize the above as “trauma dumping”, just a regular relationship where you share the bad in addition of the good.
No idea what OP meant exactly (not that I care), but a lot of the answers here assume the worst and go on a tangent IMHO.
OP started with “men do not need a therapist”, and then implied that their wife or girlfriend should be their therapist instead. This is, in fact, an unhealthy dynamic, and that is why people called it out as such.
The way I read it, it implied that they should have a place to open up and have intimacy. I read it more like “the lack of that is what creates the necessity to go to therapy”.
Everyone can benefit from a therapist and everyone can benefit from a loving, caring partner.
Who knew?
It definitely does not need to be one or the other. Oftentimes therapy could help in the relationship department considerably. Deep hurt is hard to get through alone, yet I hope more and more people understand there is help out there.
If relationships are a two way street, and one person is hurting enough to affect their role within it all there should be no shame in reaching out in that way. It could help a lot. It’s a shame there’s still so much stigma around therapy.I was implying that both are beneficials.
Oh yeah me too. I agree with everything you said, was just adding on my bit :)
I can’t comprehend what I read today. Sorry
No no, could’ve been how I worded it haha. It’s all gravy.
I dont think that stigma is going to get any better any time soon (at least in the US). The past year has given me significantly less trust that anything medical remains private; i have no trust that things said in confidence will not be weaponized against me by the current government. There have already been cases of states demanding medical records for pregnancy, abortion, and transgender records, and texas actually got their hands on some records IIRC.
My therapist says she takes a bare minimum of notes because she understands the fear people have of private info getting leaked. Maybe someone worried about that could ask about their notes process during the therapist-finding stage.
I choose a loving, varying therapist.
Wait wait wait… You’re telling me people need love? Pfft I don’t believe it.
I can guarantee there are at least a few people out there who don’t actually need love in adulthood to live happy and fulfilling lives.
How do you figure that?
Because there are always exceptions.
Always.
There is a well-known study about this: All You Need Is Love (Martin et al., 1967)
I don’t think the OP in the screenshot is describing a loving partnership though - the emotional support described is very much one sided.
There is no reason to assume that
I think a modern dysfunction of intergender relationship is an increase in transactional intimacy. Whether it’s dating, sex, or emotional, I think a lot of men are paying for their intimacy.
I’m not positive you mean this, but you’re implying men shouldn’t pay for their intimacy? You think it should be free? Everyone pays, but in healthy relationship the “payment” is emotional intimacy, acts of service, words of affection etc. No one is walking up to a stranger and banging them without giving anything. Heck even in sex alone there’s “transactions.” During foreplay, I get you a little turned on, you get me a little turned on, I escalate, you escalate.
I mean literal payment, with money.
There is a disconnect between people noticing that love is not unconditional, and thinking love is completely transactional.
Of course if love is never useful for one of the participating parties involved, then this/their love will fade. But people interpret this fact in the way that love should always be exactly as useful for all parties involved all the time.
But in reality, it should be fine if sometimes maybe one side is more selfish, less giving, sometimes the other side. Sometimes one side gives more emotional support, but the other side is more physically caring. And so on. Love doesn’t need to be perfectly equal, it just needs to make all parties involved better than if they were without the love.
But when you’re very competitive and selfish, and it’s hard to quantify each person’s usefulness to each other, it’s easy to always think that what you give is more than what someone else gives. Constantly having arguments about how you think things should be.
It can easily be a case of personal perception of a relationship, at least my generation was constantly told their only value in life is utilitarian, when that’s your mind set you’re going to assume that’s the only value you have in relationships as well. Again, therapy would help a lot so men can see that their partners do value them outside of their assigned value culture.
I agree with what you and @Azzu @Azzu@lemm.ee are saying, in the vein that traditional gender roles have done more harm than good.
I think the culture is shifting but there’s also a weird backlash to the change, like the toxic Masculinity of Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson, or the Trad Wife movement, or the rise of Only Fans and other pay-to-play parasitic economies.
I think a certain subgroup of men are willing to give money in exchange for intimacy as a way to exercise power in that dynamic, as if it lessens their vulnerability.
Relationships should of course be mutually beneficial, and therefore are inherently transactional. But I also find it ironic that whether men paying for online dating apps to meet women, paying for drinks, paying for sex, or paying for therapy, it’s all hitting their wallets.
You gotta remember that the traditional gender roles come from somewhere. There are many that detest them so much that they can’t even imagine that there must be something in the human psyche that came up with them.
There are plenty of people that know about the traditional gender roles doing more harm than good, yet still choosing to mostly follow them, in a non-toxic way, because they are what actually feels best for them.
I think the radical feminist push of trying to achieve perfect outcome equality in all areas is as misguided as the rigid, inflexible attempt to keep traditional gender roles completely intact.
Naturally, if people notice a shift too far in a certain direction, they try to work against it, and most of the time this working against it is too far in the wrong direction as well.
I don’t like legitimizing Freud cause like all his ideas that permeated popular culture are total bull but holy shit, paging Dr Freud.
He’s next tweet… “Use my promo code to join Andrew Tates Hustlers Academy.”
Freud would have a field day with this dude.
Freud: *points* “See? SEE!?” *Slaps lap* “THAT IS WHAT I MEAN!”
ZAT ISCH VAT IM TALKING ABOUT
Indeed, from “nurture energy” to “mother figure” is a leap that warrants analysis. “Muse” would be a much closer semantic association.
“all the battles he fought that day”
jesus, stop romanticizing having to deal with life dude. guess what, everyone does.
what are the odds that this guy lost his shit at the man vs bear question.
That part got me too. All the battles? Your fucking tps reports are battles? The person at dunkin got your order wrong, is that another battle for the day?
This is that meme where the shriveled up dude says “Stop giving me your toughest battles” and Jesus just replies with something like “you literally just have to put the shopping cart back when you’re done”
Obviously the man is better than the bear - all he wants from the woman in the woods is for her to live a life of servitude to him as his psuedo mommy, wife, child producer and lover, because he has epic Viking battles he has to deal with…. of taking the trash to the curb, and waiting in traffic to get to work, because therapy is too expensive, or feminine?
Lmao
Women aren’t paid enough to be both your bangmaid and your therapist.
How about if you’re their bangmaid and therapist right back? Sounds like a good deal to me
Women only want one thing and it’s fucking disgusting.
Its a peg or be pegged world.
Por que no los dos?
But why XOR not OR?
Nor do I, that’s why I prefer sexless silence with my partners, just sit there and listen to the forks clink on the plate. I don’t need to hear about her stupid day and it’s not my job to make her cum goddammit!
(/s ffs. Do you people want romantic partners or roommates?)
Between Two Ferns: Dating Edition
offer free therapy from people passionate about helping others, instead of charging them an arm and a leg for an hour of one persons narrow minded view of the world. i think more people would get therapy if that were the case.
until then, its okay to get it if you can afford it, or rely on friends, and family when you need to.
however on a personal note, nothing in my life has removed the burden of existence and replaced it with univeral connection, joy, and love for others and all living things like magic mushrooms have.
and on another personal note, therapy cannot change the external world, just how you choose to react to it. and especially these days, introspection and pills cannot save you from fascism, climate change, WW3, and poverty. among other things. it may just change your perspective on it.
throwing therapy into someones face as the only answer is a small minded view of reality. its not the answer for everyone. but it does have value in certain specific situations, for certain, specific people.
Depending on the point of view, each one of us is a certain specific person, in a specific situation.
Edit: i hear you on the magic mushrooms. Actually a silly name, for such peace of mind bringing mushrooms. It is also not just a “high” feeling. The things you think about, under the influence, stay with you after the experience.
And, for me at least, i came out of every experience, with lasting sane decisions. It made me a calmer person, but also much more active physically, by embracing exercises.
Is difficult to explain and since it’s a mushroom, not a human produced drug with the intention to get you high, who knows what real benefits it brings with it?
I read somewhere, that every mushroom experience actually rewires some of your neurons.
Or, y know, both? Most people need intimacy, but also if you have a problem, resolving it in therapy is a responsible and good option and we should stop the mental health stigma.
“All the battles he fought that day” sir you work in an air conditioned office with a coffee machine five feet from your desk
That may be true, but office work definitely has challenges of its own.
Oh absolutely, it’s not that I have a problem with. It’s more the need that these losers have to lionise everything they do to the point of parody. Everything is framed in these grand terms of war and civilisation. They can’t just be having a rough day at work, they’re warriors fighting battles. They can’t just go to the gym to keep fit and improve themselves, they’re alpha males holding up the ideals of Western civilisation. They can’t just settle down and raise a family, they’re continuing the proud legacy of their forefathers and upholding family values. You get the picture.
It’s such a naked attempt to avoid anything that might be in the slightest bit emasculating and it’s honestly pathetic. They’re terrified of being perceived as anything other than a tough macho man that can only communicate through violence and threats. They think it makes then look like strong men when it actually does the opposite. Strong-willed people don’t talk like this.
Yeah, that is definitely quite silly.
Are you saying this because you are aware of that guy worldview (maybe you looked into him) or did you manage to infer all this from a single tweet?
Like, I agree about the substance if we are talking about the manosphere. But it seems a bit quick to assume this guy is part of “them” just from this, no?
I’m pretty familiar with this guy. This is what he’s like pretty much all the time. He’s very much part of the manosphere.
Honey, can you come nurture and restore my energy? I’ve been sending emails all day.
Heh, how bout those alphas, amirite?
Almost all people have some need (depending on the definition) for physical intimacy. Not just men.
That said, people saying men need a therapist aren’t saying a therapist would help men and a therapist would authentically be in their best self interest (unless you are extremely patronizing). They’re saying a therapist would fix them, because men need fixing. Its not out of some genuine desire to make men happier.
What we really need to say is men need re-education. Because it is primarily men that are fucking up the world.
Maybe liberals need to take a pro suicide stance on men? Starting in school ideally to make it easy. Because of we are inherently bad what other choice is there when you are not welcome in any liberal group? This is kind of sarcasm. But I really am out of ideas. When rhe left won’t see you as any different then musknor tate regardless of their views then there is no hope.
I’m not a liberal. I’m also a man myself. I know you were just being a bit of an antagonistic shitposter, but I would not advocate for suicide obviously. But I’ve already proposed a fairly radical solution of just having fewer male babies in the first place, though as a solution to a different problem: men are romantically lonely, women are not romantically lonely.
Suicide solves the problem sooner.
I wonder if there’s a market for male-centric therapy. As in “I’ve got a loada wood that needs chopping. Come chop wood with me and we’ll talk about stuff”. You know, give 'em something to do with their hands while they talk. Obviously you probably couldn’t do that with someone who’s known for being aggressive and has a criminal record, but someone who has trouble talking about their feelings and doesn’t feel comfortable just sitting in a room or on a Teams call and would rather feel like they’re accomplishing something.
Like the boy scouts for adults?
That’s called triangulation! Focusing on a different task makes it easier to have vulnerable conversations.
I just go out drinking with my buds and we vent about shit. There’s rarely any solutions but that’s because the shit we’re venting about is the world falling apart, not anything we can fix. But it does help a little to get it out of our system.
This seems like a remarkably good idea but I still wouldn’t gender it. Say it’s “hands on therapy for physically oriented people” or something. I’m sure there are plenty of non-male humans who would benefit.
Hell, it might even work for my girlfriend who will go to insane lengths to avoid sitting down and having a conversation about anything personal. If it works, I owe you an upvote or something.
And it already exists, called occupational therapy or ergotherapy.
Occupational therapy is a thing, but it is a very different thing. Occupational therapy is part of rehab that helps patients regain or retain activities of daily living like dressing, bathing, and feeding themselves, etc.
And it can mean building something with them and then talking about how they are. I work closely together with OTs who do exactly that.
I’m a non-human who would absolutely love to be building shit while talking during therapy instead of using a fidget toy while avoiding eye contact because looking at someone looking at me and being vulnerable at the same time is NOT IT for me (yet).
It definitely works. Get into some hard work with another person - sweat, scream, and get bloody together. They’ll start talking deep shit soon enough (and so will you).
Yeah, it does exist. Usually in group settings. But not usually with sharp objects.
I don’t want to imagine what the insurance would be on a service like this. Customers chopping their own wood. That’s an OSHA violation waiting to happen.
Probably no worse than the bars where you can throw axes.
Does OSHA even still exist?
Well it’s a federal agency right so I assume everyone’s been fired.
Twitter is where discourse goes to die
Men can’t have a desire for comfort and intimacy that isn’t criticized and characterised as maternal? Same shit as calling male friendships gay. This is the left wing bully. Better with emotions yet use that as a weapon of coercion, no different than a fist. Both sides are filled with assholes.
Men need intimacy, but that isn’t a substitute for a therapist.
Comfort & intimacy ≠ therapy.
