• Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
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    8 days ago

    Elon is grafting as per usual, it’s government funded:

    TBC doesn’t generate revenue from charging passengers (the rides are free)… Only LVCVA provided a substantive reply, and none addressed the question of capacity, nor the outstanding questions about children or passengers with mobility issues.

    For instance, during a large trade show like CES, the LVCC will pay TBC $30,000 for every day it operates and manages the system

    At a frankly embarrassing capacity too:

    If the Loop can demonstrate moving 2,200 passengers an hour, TBC will get $4.4 million

    • enbyecho@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      According to the Boring Company, the LVCC loop has a “demonstrated peak capacity” of 4,500 passengers per hour but only 32,000 passengers per day. I don’t know the reason for the discrepancy - I assume there are operational limitations or it doesn’t run 24h/day or something. But to my mind we have to use the 32k figure, which yields a paltry 1,333 passengers per hour.

      Now technically a direct comparison would be to a single subway line, not the entire system. BUT we also need to compare it with the maximum capacity, not the actual ridership, which blows the doors off the stupid tunnel. I’ve seen numbers for BART as high as 48,000 passengers per direction per hour.

      • dustyData@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Anyone who cursorily looks at public transport logistics realizes that time deficiencies almost never lie on the actual motorization method. Electric, diesel, rail, rubber, car, bus, train, etc. All of those factor’s influence pale in comparison to embarking and disembarking times.

        It doesn’t matter if you can make the trip in 15 minutes or an hour, if you always have to wait 40 minutes to disembark, then that trip is always capped at 40 at the least time it can take. The Vegas tube terminals are absurdly small. Thus people have to wait a long time to board a car, which isn’t the most efficient thing to get on or off. And they have to wait a lot in line before getting to a park spot to disembark. Then it’s the fact that each has to be driven by a person who need regular food and bathroom breaks and general rest. And there’s a driver per every 3 or 4 passengers. Inefficiencies begin to build up.

        So, under one metric, yes the tube itself could carry 4k people an hour. But as a transport system as a whole it is awful at capacity and collapses as soon as so many people actually try to use it.

        • Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
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          8 days ago

          Spitballing here, but given the low per vehicle capacity and the inherent de/acceleration required at each stop, Vegas may be better served with a moving walkway for those 2.2 miles of total network length.

          And it’d be far more accessible for people with reduced mobility or wheelchair users too

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      Honestly it’s just kinda cringe that las Vegas doesn’t have a train system. Sure it’s wider than tall but they could do the Japanese style two tier train pricing (low cost every stop, crammed in, and higher cost express that’s less frequent and has assigned seating).

      • smitty825@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Las Vegas has a monorail but it only connects a handful of casinos on the strip. There had been proposals to connect it to Downtown Vegas and the airport, but I don’t think that there is any money set aside to make it happen.

  • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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    8 days ago

    That $75 million figure made my bullshit detector start to squawk, so I did the math. The web site says it has a capacity of 4,400 visitors per hour, and assuming $3.75 per ride (if nobody gets the daily pass for $5), it only has to operate at maximum capacity all hours of the day and night, 24/7, for 6 months to bring in that amount of revenue.

    So if the profit margin is 50%, the Vegas Loop can make $75 million in a year of continuous operation at 100% capacity. Seems legit. /s

    • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      I’m sure they meant 75m gross, at best.

      Which, even if that’s true, I’m still laughing at him because it hasn’t fixed the traffic.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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        8 days ago

        Until you realize that not fixing the traffic was the point. It’s not funny because he didn’t fix anything on purpose.

      • grepe@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        no, what he forgot to count were the state subsidies that pay for all of the expenses including building and operating costs and supplement the profit so that it makes it worth it for the investors to even bother in the first place

      • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        It’s like someone said they’d fix the US healthcare system and then bragged about how much money their health insurance company is making in response to people saying they did dick all to fix the system.

    • rational_lib@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      I tried to find the source of this and all I can find is “webpronews” which says:

      With $75 million in annual revenue, 28,000 daily passengers, and 150 Teslas in operation, this underground transportation network is redefining how cities think about mobility.

      So if it’s 28000 x 365, that’s $7.50 per trip. Of 1.7 miles. That’s suspiciously double the $3.75 listed on the Vegas loop site, which also offers a day pass for $5.00.

      Still, even $37.5 to $50 million is some pretty significant revenue (not to be confused with profit). Does it carry 28,000 riders per day though? As best as I can tell, this is what a publication from the Board of Directors of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority claims is the record ridership, set during a Specialty Equipment Manufacturers Association convention. Even ignoring the suspiciously round number, the publication notes that rides were free on that day, and obviously it’s blatantly wrong to apply a record total to a daily average.

      So essentially, the tweet is a dishonest interpretation based on another dishonest interpretation of dubious statistics. Lesson is, everything on Twitter is bullshit - emphasis on every. Even subparts of bullshit on Twitter are still bullshit, often layered on other bullshit. Twitter is the last asshole of the human centipede of bullshit.

        • rational_lib@lemmy.world
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          7 days ago

          From page 22:

          This quarter also saw the three highest ridership days ever on the Las Vegas Loop during SEMA, carrying a record 28,000 passengers in one day. “Our goal for the free Loop service around the LVCC campus is to improve customer service, reduce attendees’ travel times, and provide a Vegas Only experience,” Reisman says. Our transportation and customer experience departments are already working directly with the building’s shows to educate attendees about the unique benefits of zipping from one side of our campus to the other in a free Loop car—shaving up to 45 minutes from their travel time.

      • turmacar@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Thats the one in California, the one in Vegas has drivers and is between the convention center and a hotel.

        IIRC their peak capacity estimates do things like assume loading/unloading times for a family of 4 with luggage to be under 30 seconds too.

  • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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    8 days ago

    So all box.sol really cares about is if it is profitable.

    Not that it actually functions well.

    • Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      It’s not even that profitable, assuming the data is correct.

      Cities with similar size in other countries can make hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars instead with massive public transports.

  • 1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca
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    8 days ago

    We have a LRT here in toronto that has taken over a decade to build and MIGHT finally open in 2025. I am so sick and tired of transit projects being so slow.

  • AAA@feddit.org
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    8 days ago

    For anyone interested, that’s the U4 line in Hamburg, Germany, at the “HafenCity Universität” station.

  • hono4kami@slrpnk.netOP
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    9 days ago

    Also I haven’t really looked into this Vegas Loop thing until now, and the tweet was right, it only connects a convention center and a hotel LOL

    • mean_bean279@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      Last I heard too the cars aren’t autonomous in the tunnel either. They’re driven by real people. The “hyperloop” idea was actually to try and kill the high speed rail project in Cali. Elon is a piece of shit and tried to tank our train, which has helped to extend the project further and increase scrutiny of it.

      • evidences@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        The worst part about it is the hyper loop is an objectively cool idea, impractical but fucking sweet, that definitely didn’t originate from Elon. He only jumped on it to try and divert cash from highspeed rail and even then it just evolved into lol put cars in a tunnel I own.

        • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          Not a cool idea, it’s a retarded idea, unless we are saying making something super expensive and very impractical is cool, in which case, it’s cool I guess, like a Bugatti Veyron, just even stupider for it to exist while there are children starving in the world.

          • evidences@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            Good point I was wrong, I forgot it’s impossible to spend money on more than one thing at a a time.

            • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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              8 days ago

              There is spending money and utter waste of money, the hyperloop as a concept is fucking idiotic, it’s trains but worse in every conceivable way other than from the standpoint of one individual trying to get fast from one point to another, and much more expensive

      • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.zip
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        8 days ago

        Yeah, that was one of the ways people realized ‘oh, Tesla FSD is complete bullshit.’

        If you can’t even automate a car driving in an extremely simplified and controlled environment, like a set track with a 2 or 3 ‘stops’… your FSD is obviously crap.

    • takeda@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      You get the worst of both worlds, inefficiency of transportation capacity of a car with limitations of driving destinations of a rail.

      And apparently even the self driving doesn’t even work there (you would think this would be an easy feature to add)

        • lime!@feddit.nu
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          8 days ago

          it gets worse: the loading and unloading takes several minutes because all the cars have to back out into traffic, so congestion in the tunnel is common. the max speed is something like 15km/h because there are too many cars moving in the system. and the tunnel is too narrow for you to be able to open the door, meaning that in the event of a fire, everyone just dies.

      • Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Of course Americans are in love with cars, but isn’t the best solution for Vegas an above ground streetcar? Relatively short distance, sufficient space (so no need to dig underground), high capacity.

        • azimir@lemmy.ml
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          8 days ago

          I’ve been stunned that the Vegas strip doesn’t have some kind of real transit system for decades now.

          They didn’t even let the new HSR line come to the Strip itself. It stops outside of the area and people have to taxi in. Why the casino owners weren’t fighting over who got the HSR stop in their casino I’ll never understand. Wouldn’t you want those trains to drop off thousands of possible marks right on your doorstep? No, instead they get dropped in the desert and have to wander to wherever in town.

  • takeda@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    There are fake groups with bots on Facebook (and likely other social media) that are praising Elonia. I actually saw one that was trying to turn this failure project into some kind of success.

  • LandedGentry@lemmy.zip
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    8 days ago

    Everything in the US can be boiled down to “I completely and unequivocally own all space with a 5sqft area.” Transportation, covid behavior, airplanes, you name it.

    Our “rugged individualism” is really just an unmatched sense of entitlement.

  • MudMan@fedia.io
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    8 days ago

    For a reference of scale, the largest high speed rail network in Europe is in Spain. Last year it moved some 33 million people (that’s just high speed, not including local slow trains or urban metro) and, while overall revenue data is not widely available (there are multiple operators reporting independently), it generated several billion dollars.

    If you want to scale that to what it would do in the US with a similar network you can add a zero to all the numbers and you won’t be too far off.

    • hono4kami@slrpnk.netOP
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      8 days ago

      Yeah, I’ve said this before, but USA seems like a perfect place to build a HSR right? It seems like an ez money too now that I think about it.

      Copying my comment on [email protected] :

      I’m not even from USA to be clear, but my limited image of USA is that it lacks efforts of building public transport, especially compared to other developed countries. Heck, compared to developing countries even.

      One of the example, US seems like a perfect place to build a high-speed rail network. Yet, CAHSR seems to keep getting delayed. In comparison Morocco has a HSR. Even Indonesia has one opened last year.

      • Miles O'Brien@startrek.website
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        8 days ago

        Well think of it this way:

        A politician COULD approve a project like this, and his area will see improvements in 2-7 years, and everything connected to the network improves in 4-10 years, and if the politician personally invests and things go well (they would, but yOu nEvEr KnOw) then the politician could stand to gain a decent chunk of ROI in a few years.

        OR

        The politician accepts a bribe listens to lobbyists from the automotive industry, kills all competition to ICE vehicles and more roads, the area stagnates for the third decade in a row, and the politician is $10,000 richer today.

        Honestly the politicians hands are completely tied here. Their net worth is only $18 million, do you really think they can afford to wait a few years???

      • invertedspear@lemm.ee
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        8 days ago

        Overall low population density likely means even with high usage, you’d still be serving fewer people per mile of track than pretty much anywhere in Europe. A mile of HSR has to be more exact and defect free than a mile of road, and costs a hell of a lot more in labor and materials. Then there’s the cost of the land to build it on, because for some reason the existing right of way around interstate highways isn’t available.

        I don’t think the U.S. is as perfect of a place for it as you think it is, but god damn I wish we’d at least try.

        • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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          8 days ago

          Yeah, the D.C.-Bmore-Philly-NYC-Boston corridor is notorious for the tumbleweeds blowing forlornly down empty main streets at high noon, because of low population. /s

          C’mon, that tired, old trope is so busted. Obviously, we build HSR where the people are/want to go, and not where the people aren’t/don’t want to go. The Northeast, the Great Lakes region, the West Coast, the East Coast, the South—all of these regions have the population density for a HSR network.

          Much of the Desert Southwest, the Great Plains, the Great Basin, Alaska—we don’t have to criss-cross them with HSR routes to make the map look balanced.

        • MudMan@fedia.io
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          8 days ago

          Spain’s average population density is on par with California. It would rank as the 10th most densely populated state in the US. And it is about the same size as California, too. Its GDP per capita is about one third of the US or California’s, and the whole infrastructure for high speed rail is 100% publicly funded. Private operators pay a fee to use the public tracks.

          So yeah, no, that’s no excuse. Even at the state level pretty much any state with significant urban centres could pull this off.

          • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            They’re trying to build high speed rail in California. The costs are ballooning to astronomical levels. Endless delays too. I don’t really understand all of the reasons. I think there are a lot of political fights involving different regional governments along the route.

  • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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    8 days ago

    It’s a great American success because instead of being good at what it needs to do, it is good at making money for a rich person.

  • wabafee@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    How does the Hyperloop work anyway? How they manage to avoid accidents. Are they put into rails like trains? Aside from the requirement of having a car to use one.

    • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org
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      7 days ago

      You’re talking about the Loop, which is so stupid they couldn’t make self-driving work on their private road.

      Hyperloop is a 100-year-old concept called “vacuum train” that Elon summarized in a sci-fi white paper with lots of nonsense (concerning the cold gas thrusters alone: they would destroy the vacuum that took days to pump and their tanks would make the train 8x longer) and “declined to patent it out of generosity” (in fact, the idea cannot be patented due to both age and insanity). He only used it to delay California’s HSR to make sure people kept using Teslas.

  • /home/pineapplelover@lemm.ee
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    8 days ago

    A few years back I actually found the hyperloop pretty novel and cool. Like put your car on skates and it could zoooom very fast. Yes a train would be better but this idea seems like a cool project. Fast forward now, and you still have to drive and stuff, it’s lame af.

    • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      Hyperloop is soo fucking stupid if you think about it for like 5 minutes, but lots of people bought into the hype.

  • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    The important thing is that it’s making $75 million a year, not that it’s profitable or that it’s efficient.

    The .com “Revenue is value” bullshit has persisted and it sucks.