This is not my personal opinion, I know Gen Z men who voted for Harris. But the voter demographics really speak for themselves, and maybe now people will look at the radicalization of young men as a serious (but solvable) issue.
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Lemmy right now is saltier than the earth of Carthage after the Roman’s victory.
…uhhh…we’re not?
Among other things, they’ve been raised to comply with an authoritarian government since 9/11, so their whole lives.
I’m a gen z male, raised in a far right Republican household. I’m a social democrat. I am progressive.
Good on you. No group is a monolith
Can you please tell your entire generation to get it together worldwide? That’d be great, thanks.
Leaving this here just in case: /s
I’m also a Gen Z male, raised in an evangelical household at a Christian school that supported Christian nationalism, and was supposed to be a strong conservative Christian but ended up turning into an atheist socialist instead. It’s kind of funny to read that Gen Z is going radical right when for me it was the opposite.
According to the voter demographics, you’re a minority there.
Same. I live on a ranch in a deeply red area. Voted Kamala. I’m also happy to say my conservative parents are ex-republicans.
Unironically, congrats on breaking free of the brainwashing. I grew up in an insanely red rural area and a very conservative religious family, unlearning all that shit has been a decades long process (and still continues).
Same man. It was wild when middle school rolled around and I finally gained awareness of the world beyond myself and learned what the Republicans actually were and wanted. A friend who knew more about politics than me explained some stuff, and suddenly I had to question why my family was against progressive beliefs.
Mostly the same, i was raised to be a worthless red neck. I’m not. The issue with using our experiences is that we are people, we have an inner world and are capable of free thought. Trump’s followers aren’t.
Same here. I’ve cut my entire family out of my life over this shit.
I can see why some young men might feel like the Democratic party is prioritizing women’s issues over those affecting men, especially young men. In fact, it might seem like the Democratic party is not only indifferent to struggling young men, but hostile to them. I can understand why someone might not want to vote for a party that thinks of them as deplorable, pathetic losers.
Issues affecting young women:
- Rapes aren’t prosecuted
- Government forced births
- Bleeding out in a parking lot
- Widespread misogyny
Issues affecting young men:
- Girls won’t put out
- There aren’t enough pickup trucks
- Joe Rogan is being victimized by jews
- Germ theory and masks or something
How exactly can a political party address what is for men essentially a collection of toxic culture issues?
This is the exact kind of attitude they meant
Imagine if you reversed the roles there and said something like issues facing women: handbag not sparkly enough or some shit
There are real issues for both men and women. The fact people think otherwise is part is the root of the problem
But I would be lying.
Look, name an issue that exclusively affects men, and I’ll amend my list. So far, no one has come up with anything.
Mental health issues being ignored by their peers and society as a whole is a pretty big one
You could claim women have mental health problems too and they do but they have spaces to talk about that
So your claim is that “mental health issues” are an exclusively male problem? Because again, the problems I listed for women affect them exclusively.
So do you see what the problem is here?
You ignored part of my message, I said the problem was that men’s mental health problems are largely ignored, not that women don’t have mental health problems
So to be clear, one of the main issues that men in this country face that women do not face is that “their mental health issues are ignored”?
Who is “ignoring” these mental health issues? There’s no systematic lack of access that needs to be legislated, correct? I had absolutely zero problem getting therapy as a man. It’s a toxic masculinity thing of men themselves being unwilling to see a therapist. Correct?
“Rapes aren’t prosecuted” doesn’t exclusively effect women by any means. Also, men can get pregnant. Trans men are men.
I understand the point you’re making and I generally agree, but to suggest there are not issues that affect young men much more than young women that seriously need fixing is silly.
The insane drug war affects men far, far more than women.
And you’ll also notice that, aside from Breyonna Taylor who cops didn’t even know was there, virtually every major case involving police extrajudicial murder was of a black man.
“The drug war” is not a male-exclusive problem. That would be like saying that because men are responsible for perpetrating 99% of violent crime, violence is an exclusively male problem. Notice I didn’t say that.
Also, are you sure you want me to add “trans male pregnancy” to the list of male problems? Are you quite sure this is something your fellow men feel strongly about? Don’t be dishonest, please.
Tell me you didn’t even look at the image without telling me you didn’t look at the image.
And you also don’t seem to think men can be raped since you think it’s only rapes of women that don’t get prosecuted.
Also, are you sure you want me to add “trans male pregnancy” to the list of male problems?
I was pointing out the flaw in you claiming these were only problems that involve women. That is only true for most of them if you do not think trans men are men. Are trans men actually men?
I looked at your image. Fine. Let’s say the drug war affects men more than women by imprisoning them. Unfortunately, most men don’t care about this issue.
Here’s a related one: prison rape. It’s a serious problem that affects more men than women. Unfortunately, men don’t care about this issue either.
Another male exclusive problem: online radicalization… the infamous alt-right pipeline. This odious trend has reduced male college attendance and made my fellow American men even stupider than they otherwise would be.
Another exclusively male problem: dating culture disparity. Men are expected to pay for dates despite nearly equivalent earning potential.
Why didn’t you mention any of that? Instead you’re focused on the one in a million women who are now trans men who are giving birth (???)
I think many men, whether they realize it or not, feel specifically persecuted by trans rights. They might say that allowing trans women in women’s sports is cheating and that it would allow the trans women to be successful in the sport over less merit than they as cis males would have to. The deconstruction of the gender/sex binary also threatens cis males’ historic position as self-assigned protectors, leaders, and winners of the “weaker sex”. There is also the phobia among men of discovering that the woman whom they want to romance is trans, which really comes down to masculine fragility and conformity that leads to homophobia (in the sense of XY + XY, not gender) and transphobia. As a cis male, these men need to get over themselves.
Many men also believe that gun control is a threat to them. They need these guns in case a fascist power ever seizes the government and they need to fight back, so they are actively voting for the fascist powers to seize the government so that they can keep their guns.
There are also men who hold prejudice against any religion except Christianity so leftwing inclusivity efforts and anti-prejudice efforts come across as welcoming these perceived threats. These men aren’t simply just the redneck Bible thumpers or even devout or practicing Christians, but they just see the most common belief system around them as the default.
It’s not that these issues are a threat to men, but that they perceive them as threats.
How exactly can a political party address what is for men essentially a collection of toxic culture issues?
I don’t necessarily know, and neither does the Democratic party, which is at least part of the reason why Trump just got reelected.
Talk about diving people, what a prime example. What would you say if I name fashion as one of the primary female problems? Or having good pictures on Instagram?
Issues affecting young men:
- Rape reports are ignored and not taken seriously
- Not trained in the tools to deal with mental health and emotions
- High expectation to make money but low job prospects
- Jerks trivializing the fact that men have real concerns because OtHeRs HaVe It WoRsE.
It should be empathy for all. Asshat.
Your list is the issues that men are actually facing, but what OP posted is what the clout chasing “alpha influencers” tout as “men’s actual problems”.
For everyone’s sake, we need to start reclaiming men’s spaces from these Andrew Taint-wannabe’s, and towards people like you. They don’t care about anything but their bank accounts.
Influencers are the tail that thinks they’re wagging the dog. When they aren’t shilling garbage products and cryptoscams they’re spending all their time trying to find the next trend to chase. Besides the shilling, at their worst they’re merely a sounding board for ideas and issues that are already out there (and have been for a long time).
The biggest mistake the Democrat campaign made was to ignore the plight of working class, non-college educated people. To a group that’s been reeling from inflation and the major setback of COVID lockdowns, the Democrats promised more of the same. That’s not good enough! What good is student loan forgiveness to people who never went to college?
That’s been the problem for the Democrats for decades now. A party that used to call labour unions its base now focuses pretty much exclusively on college-educated middle class and up.
I just had a look at the exit polls. Of the people who said the economy was the most important use, 79% voted for Trump. Of those who think the US’s economy is doing not so good/poor (67% of voters), 69% voted for Trump.
I know lots of people here will sneer at that and Trump seems pretty unlikely to right the ship but he actually promised change whereas the Democrats did not. Promising to keep things the same when 2/3 of voters believe the economy is poor is not going to get the job done.
Yeah, and people seem to forget a key question these days: “what middle class?”
Yes, us men need therapy. Women also don’t don’t get special mental health training and oh fucking boy if you think women aren’t dealing with people trivializing every legitimate worry they have then you’re on something special.
If we’re so damn fuckin’ tough we should be able to handle ourselves while we focus a little more on making sure women aren’t dying from preventable causes, losing their rights, or worrying about whatever immediate danger they find themselves in day-to-day.
No one is being mean to us unless we start something and women are fed up with men as a group because they’d be insane not to be right now. It’s been about us for thousands of years and the second anyone tries to do any good for someone else we, as a group, throw a fit like you wouldn’t believe.
“Empathy for all” take your “all lives matter” bullshit and shove it up your fucking ass.
I don’t know the solution, but I do know that self-hatred isn’t it.
People face a myriad of assaults on their mental health every day. Virtue signaling and choosing to leave any subgroup behind just because you think someone else has it worse won’t lead to the outcome you hope it will.
Men aren’t being left behind, they’re just a bunch of fucking babies about maybe actually having to police their own behaviour. Women have been carrying the mental load for generations and now that we’re being asked to carry our fair share we do this shit.
You’re not being left behind, you’re just being a asshole.
—
Also, I’m a tall straight white male. Blond hair and blue eyes and everything. I don’t feel the least bit left behind. I feel embarrassed that I may have acted a certain way in the past, and it’s hard to overcome habits and normalized shitty behaviours. Instead of running from it and blaming everyone else for pointing out how my behaviour might have hurt someone I’m dealing with it and trying to be better.
I don’t give a fuck who you are. I didn’t ask, and it’s not relevant. And whatever you’re doing smacks more of “look how much better I am than you” than “I’m truly trying to be a better person.”
Empathy makes you better, not self-hate and virtue signaling. People need help. All of them.
The bar is pretty low, it’s pretty easy to be a better person.
Also this isn’t “self-hate”. It’s called introspection you spineless little weasel. Maybe you should hate yourself a little, kickstart a little humility in there.
Empathy isn’t a zero sum game. It is, in fact, possible to care about women’s issues and men’s issues at the same time. A woman getting the support they need doesn’t take anything away from a man, nor does a man getting the support they need take anything away from a woman.
And yet these “all ____ matter” comments only come up when someone tries to take the spotlight away from white men. Women getting the support they need has been fought tooth and nail by men for fucking ages. The group that only just got the ability to have their own bank account doesn’t owe us fuck all in politeness especially when so many of us act like goddamn degenerates all the fucking time. They still struggle to even get healthcare that isn’t designed for men.
What you’ve got in your comment is a deflection away from the real use of these things. It’s not clever, you’re just being an ass.
The original topic was about the radicalisation of men. One poster commented how it might feel that the democratic party doesn’t care about men’s issues. Another replied and tried to trivialize those issues. So some users advocate for empathy. And you reply with “but what about women?” Do women face issues? Absolutely. Arguably more than men, I don’t know. But that’s beside the point here. The topic was radicalisation of men, and a possible cause. I would argue, you’re acting like an ass right now.
And I’m pointing out that men have not been forgotten, they’re just whining because it’s not about them 100% of the time anymore and they need to get over themselves. Also, their sexism caused a lot of the problems that women face and are now having to do all this fucking work to fix.
Boo-fucking-hoo.
I agree, but you forgot the biggest one
No more third places
Don’t forget them just being mad at the concept of child support
Oh yeah, good point.
I don’t disagree with your issues facing women. But your issues young men face is very disingenuous
Its disingenuous to the actual issues facing young men, but right on point for how people seem to see mens issues. It is in fact a perfect example of why men might just feel put upon by the left.
Nowhere in this thread has anyone discussed issues that exclusively affect men. There are very few such issues and all of them are trivial.
Is there a visual representation of 3. being nailed to a cross for dramatization purposes?
It’s not so much a crucifix but a lowercase letter T for his low-testosterone he’s so obsessed with
Men have already long been abused by the patriarchy alongside with women. In the last couple of years the so-called “liberals” claiming to fight against the patriarchy have joined in the abuse by denying men any escape from that situation
Daddy issues
I had a look on scholar.google.com, but alas, all research after 2020 was either related to young male athletes, or related to gender/sexual health. There seems to be little attention given to young males.
Yes, we should definitely move to address their issues, which begin and end with the fact that young men are entitled uneducated macho losers who love expensive cars and worship illiteracy.
What exactly do you want the government to do about that?
I tried using google scholar to educate me on the topic, and noticed that research falls short.
I reported on that observation.
Your reaction makes me feel very uncomfortable.
It falls short because researching manosphere conspiracy theory bullshit is not exactly easy.
I did read a book that researched that part: “Men Who Hate Women” by Laura Bates
But that book places it as a (dangerous) minority phenomenon amongst male youth.
For what it’s worth, it’s likely when that book was researched that it was a minority phenomenon.
The book was published in 2020 and researched then school age people.
More recent research I’m unaware of. What research are you basing your opinion on?
That was more snark along the lines of the OP than any serious research, though I expect there will be quite a few papers written on this election.
I mean, kinda yeah, but that doesn’t really mean anything to the comment you replied to.
People like you are the reason we lost this election, wanna try and not be openly hostile to a huge demographic for like 5 minutes?
I wish so much that I was wrong, but I am not.
My fellow American men are unfeeling morons. They revile science, art, philosophy, nature, meaning — literally anything and everything that matters. Their lives are nothing but self-fellating gratifications and consumerism: sports, trucks, video games. For every intelligent American man there are 5 barely sentient unempathetic subhumans whose lives are as shallow as they are meaningless.
That is what I have learned in my 30 years on this planet. The number of good men I’ve met — just met — I can count on the fingers of one hand.
but I am not.
As the father of a Gen Z Son whose almost done with a degree in Chemical Engineering I can confidently say that you are wrong. There’s large numbers of intelligent, educated, and caring young men out there and it’s been my privilege to watch quite a few of them grow up.
As a man over 50 I’m going to point out that if everywhere you go smells like shit then you need to check your shoes.
The fact that you are so dismissive of men’s issues is literally the problem.
Most of my fellow men are not even human. It’s hard to relate to them.
Obviously in their lives they’ve been massively influenced by social media starting from a younger age than any previous generations. And you know what kind of garbage is out there.
“Solidarity forever” applies across gender lines as well as race and other sources of disparity. I wish this could have been made more apparent to our young men, social media has them in its clutches unfortunately. Billionaires did that.
Yeah well if you ignore and ridicule young men asking for help this is what you get
I am Gen Z male and please do not let my blond hair, blue eyes, and German lineage deceive you. I’m as appalled as one can be with all of this. I never connected with my boomer dad or my millennial elder brothers over machismo or sports nor did I ever pick up TikTok and my social media consumption elsewhere was limited or gated by my own doing. From my experience, the pressure to conform to masculinity and male dominated in-groups; the perceived onus to keep males in power and powerful; and the propagandists’ weaponization of media such as TikTok, Facebook, podcasts, and Fox News and their ilk on TV and radio are the main depreciators of character in these cases.
Don’t apologize for the way you look. You didn’t choose that.
They could dye their hair…
Clearly my attempt to joke fell flat, sorry for using comedy as a response to stress.
They shouldn’t have to.
It was a joke.
No jokes 😡
(no but seriously I don’t think anyone in the “Hitler Youth” post is in a joking mood :,) )
I only mentioned those characteristics because of the Hitler Youth descriptor used in the screenshot and I wanted to underscore that there are strangers who don’t want to be seen as the enemy but the enemy has co-opted their innate look. I know not to judge a person’s character by their appearance and I hope those on this side of the situation all know that as well.
I hope so too!
I’m not doubting you OP, just asking if anyone has the voter demographics data that shows Gen Z males voted for Trump because I’m interested in the #'s of the issue.
As to the question of the post: I think part of the issue is that what it means to be a strong, mentally healthy male has been left unspecified or even attacked in recent years and that’s left a lot of young men confused and upset. Men get all sorts of advice on what’s wrong to do, but not enough on what’s right. Contradictory advice makes the confusion worse.
Are you supposed to chase a girl or is that creepy? How do you navigate increased romantic isolation and dating apps in a healthy way? What are expectations about being the sole income provider a la tradition? In that vacuum confident, opinionated, clear voices are persuasive, and a lot of those voices are the jackasses pushing a toxic masculinity and telling males to reclaim it. We need more strong, positive male role models and visible social support of them if we want to win young men back - they have to know that being better will yield rewards.
Sometimes it feels like a man need to feel guilty just for being a man, even if they have done absolutely nothing wrong.
I don’t know in America. Here in Spain there is a trend in which to be “feminist” somehow you have to admit that you are a little sexist, because are men are sexist even a little. It is an absolute. It’s not even “a majority of men…” its all, no other opinions accepted.
And if you decline that premise, and just say “I’m not sexist, I treat everyone the same despite gender” you are somehow lying and trying to hide your sexism, which makes you a bad person or something.
And I refuse that. I refuse to accept having done things that I have not done. Same I reject accepting responsibility for things I have not made or enabled. And some people still want me to accept that guilt.
That trend needs to die. I know that it creates sorority making the “all of us vs all of them” rhetoric, but my humble believe is that that path do not lead to the desired destination.
Edit: I was going to start the comment with “As a man” as it was my assigned at birth gender. But in all true and while for confort I just let most people treat me with masculine gender I just do not believe in gender as a social construct. Not that I do not believe as in I do not believe it exist, I do not believe that gender is a desirable social construct we need to keep in our society. But that’s just my opinion.
I understand what you mean, and it sucks. I’ve been accused of being antisemitic because I post against Israeli policy and I’ve never cared about ethnicity or birthplace. Sometimes because I put up a post talking about supporting Jews that oppose Netanyahu’s Zionism. It doesn’t matter to some folks - if you have a problem with certain people it’s not because of what they do or say, it’s sexism, racism, etc.
Here in Canada it’s not automatically assumed men are sexist. There are folks who will say that but they are a small group. I can only imagine it’s maddening to have to defend yourself constantly, especially if most people won’t believe you no matter what. It kind of reminds me of an old Dave Chappelle sketch (NSFW language) about being accused of sleeping with someone and having people assume it happened.
And if you decline that premise, and just say “I’m not sexist, I treat everyone the same despite gender” you are somehow lying and trying to hide your sexism, which makes you a bad person or something.
We all have implicit biases, this is undeniable. Denying this doesn’t make you a bad person, but you are denying reality. Having the biases doesn’t make you a bad person either - again we all do. But you can’t be mindful of them if you deny they exist.
As I said I reject that extremist premise.
I declare it an extremist idea because is a “Black or white” “All or nothing” thing. We all need to have those biases so “some people” feel better about themselves, one way or the other.
I do not have those biases. That’s just it. The only thing I deny is a false accusation made by people that does not know me.
Because those people could came a say to me “see this behavior you had” that’s a little sexist. But not, they are unable to point such behavior, they just assume it must exist, because it’s part of their dogma.
I’m totally ok to just being pointed at something I made wrong and willing to correct it. But point it first. Not just assume that wrong behavior exist just because of a dogma.
And I also believe that accusing people of things they have not done just to fit a rhetoric is part of the cause of the disengagement of some collectives with the political mainstream left. Why would anyone would want to be near people that want humilliation, responsability and reparations for things one have just not done?
You are reading a lot into my comment about implicit biases that is literally just not there.
Have a good day!
No you’re fair to do so, here’s the demographic breakdowns and differences between 2020 and 2024 from NBC exit polls.
The particular thing to note is that Trump support jumped from 36% to 42% in the 18-29 demographic, while the other age groups remained steady, this is what I think the tweet is going off of.
You are my hero :) Thank you for the link! You are right to say that number is probably significant. Given how vocal female support of Kamala was, it’s likely young men make up a lot of that shift too. Of course we’ll have to wait for more detailed stats to be sure, but it’s not unreasonable IMO.
No worries, I love discussing numbers, and elections always give some great statistical insight, no matter where in the world it is.
My solace today is being able to look at the numbers and intellectualize some of the outcomes. Otherwise I’d just be depressed all day :')
Not solvable. Not anymore at this point.
You have literally one recourse left: violence.
Forget about “the high road”. This is about survival.
The alternative is to simply wait and stand by until they come round you up. Which they absolutely will at this point.
You would be too if you were raised by the YouTube algorithm
Hey I was raised exclusively by the YouTube algorithm, and I came away from it with a deep appreciation for animation, an incredibly stupid sense of humor, and a sexuality on the spectrum of “Yes, please.” It can’t be the only reason!
