I mean tbf, all of the above have people enraged and people who dgaf, it’s just those flip flop depending. I’m sure there’s no shortage of people here, in this very thread, that aren’t cool with say Native Americans being played by white people, or that Scarlet Johansen played that one lady from GITS (can’t remember her name, never really got into that series, but she’s supposed to be Asian.) Understandably so, really, but still.
I take it a step further personally, stop remaking anything and if you adapt say a comic or book, stick as close as humanly possible to the source material. Race/genderswapping and reboots for a moneygrab is cool or whatever but can we have good original stories again please?
My issue with Scarlet funnily enough is that she’s Scarlet. She’s too big of a star to really meld into the majors role. I just felt like I was watching black widow on screen. Sorta spoilers for anyone who cares but
Tap for spoiler
the majors body is full on robot so technically she could be any nationality and color but it would have fit better if they picked someone who fit her original motif since it sorta matters. With the whole, ghost in the machine thing. I’m a huge fan of the franchise and I’m sad that this was the big live action debut.
I can get behind that too, but I was referring to the backlash at the time it was released, it was all “cast people of that race to play a character of that race because inclusion is good.” Iirc there was one around the same time that played a trans person but wasn’t a trans person who received backlash too.
Wait until you tell extremist, right-wing Christians that Jesus wasn’t a white guy! Oooohhh boyyy!
Also, I think it’s important to not forget that in the internet age, a very small minority of hateful asshats can appear to have a very large voice. They are still a very small, minority group of asshats.
Valid point. Although I bet there would have been some outcry if they had cast anyone without red hair TBH. Some people are just obsessed with red hair.
But there would definitely have been less outrage if they casted a blond white lady instead of a black lady. Still relevant point.
Did anyone actually care about the casting?
I thought the movie was just bad.Yes. A shit ton of conservatives.
I think in case of Ra’s Al Ghul in Nolan movies, the title is passed from one leader to another. He’s not a 1000 year old warrior.
I really don’t think it would have hurt to cast an Arab actor as Ra’s Al Ghul. And then you wouldn’t need a convoluted explanation like that.
Ghassan Massoud (the guy that played Saladin in Kingdom of Heaven) would have been perfect
That’s true. But I wonder if the creative team thought it would be in bad taste to have an Arab guy as head of global terrorist organization so soon after 9/11
In that case, maybe choose a different villain.
Why?
For the same reason the excuse of a white character being named Mitsimu Hashimori is that it’s just a title being passed down is something people might find offensive.
I think artists can make whatever they want (within the bounds of the law) and that it’s up to the consumers to decide whether they like it or not with their wallets.
When did this become about what people can do and not about whether or not they’re being highly offensive?
It is legal to make and distribute a movie where a guy just yells the N-word for 90 minutes. I assume you would find that offensive. Most people would.
Bruh. Since it is a title, it doesn’t matter who is holding it. Even comics Ra’s Al Ghul doesn’t mind that considering he wants Bruce Wayne to be his heir.
Yes, again, you can come up with that convoluted after-the-fact explanation that wasn’t in the movie or you can not piss off Arab people.
I don’t think not being typecast as terrorists pisses off arabs
Good thing the character isn’t a terrorist then. The head of a cult of assassins is not a terrorist. Assassins target specific people for specific reasons, not to create terror.
No, I don’t thinking would work since his daughter’s called Thalia Al Ghul, indicating Al Ghul is a family name.
Also,we don’t need to make up apologies for whitewashing.
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He literally says 'we have been around for 1000 years and since Nolanverse is devoid of any fantastical elements, passing the torch is the only possible explanation.
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Her name is Talia Al Ghul from Doylist perspective but not from Watsonian.
For all we know, she doesn’t have any last name/family name in-universe and uses the alias of Miranda when she’s globetrotting for a bit of terrorism.
- He literally says 'we have been around for 1000 years and since Nolanverse is devoid of any fantastical elements, passing the torch is the only possible explanation.
I always thought he meant the League of Shadows, not a single position.
- Her name is Talia Al Ghul from Doylist perspective but not from Watsonian.
She calls Ra’s Al Ghul her father. It may be an interpretation that Al Ghoul is a name, but so is the title interpretation. And imho the name is far less of a stretch.
Yes. He is referring to League of Shadows. However, very early in the movie he says “If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely” so it seems obvious in hindsight that this applies to Ra’s as well as if applies to Batman.
Hell, I always thought Ken Watanabe was Ra’s Al Ghul and the title passed on to Liam Neeson after the former died.
However, very early in the movie he says “If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely” so it seems obvious in hindsight that this applies to Ra’s as well as if applies to Batman.
But that doesn’t mean Henri Ducard became a Ra’s Al Ghul or Ra’s Al Ghul became the League of Shadows. It’s like a religious thing, like christians consider themselves reborn after baptism.
Hell, I always thought Ken Watanabe was Ra’s Al Ghul and the title passed on to Liam Neeson after the former died.
I can see where you’re coming from, I’d expect some quote like “I am Ra’s Al Ghul now” or something.
Again, I can see your interpretation, but I think Ra’s Al Ghul simply being a name is far less a stretch and requires fewer assumptions.
Ra’s al Ghul translates to demon’s head. Do you still think it’s just a name?
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That funny because when I put my non-USA definition of is white and not-white or african, this image as absolutely no meaning.
Leeroooooooooy Jenkins
I honestly don’t care at this point. New Ariel sucks not because they switched her to black, but because it just sucks as a whole. The only thing that’s actually kinda pissing me off is…
…could we stop swapping gingers with blacks? Please? Pretty please? Both are minority, ffs. But one is even kinda rarer than the other. Go on, switch the blondie, but leave the ginger as ginger ;-;
Scarlet Witch wasn’t originally Romani… she was originally still Jewish. You know, since she was Magneto’s daughter. The Romani thing came later. So that’s kind of a mischaracterization. The Johnny Depp as native american was super wierd, like the black face RDJ in Tropic Thunder. It was cringe @.@.
like the black face RDJ in Tropic Thunder. It was cringe @.@.
Did you actually see Tropic Thunder? It’s pretty good. His character is meant to be looked down on and the movie makes that clear. It’s more of a criticism of actors doing things like black face and playing disabled characters to chase awards.
Wouldn’t her being Jewish depend more on her mother?
No wonder they changed her to Romani, they got tired of all the questions from The Tribe asking for her mother’s geneology to prove she was Jewish.
You had a point then you said something incredibly stupid, so now I disagree with your existence.
Every aspect of Tropic Thunder was absolutely hilarious and if you found that movie offensive or cringe then clearly the jokes of that movie flew wayyyyy the fuck over your head.
I don’t know how people got that take from Tropic Thunder when they explicitly make reference inside the movie to how messed up and wrong it was. Like, that was the joke. RDJ was playing a character so full of himself that took method acting to it’s extreme. Am I missing something? Id love to be educated
No, you’re right. RDJ’s role on that movie was a joke/commentary about both method acting and black face.
No, you’re not, people are taking good intentions too far like usual. The entire joke of that character was that he crossed the line
Scarlet Witch wasn’t originally Romani… she was originally still Jewish. You know, since she was Magneto’s daughter. The Romani thing came later.
She could still be both from each parent’s side?
That would make her… Jewmani? Rowish?
Never play Jewmani, you can get sucked into the game and it’s like WWII or smth
BTW I checked Wikipedia and it’s hilarious how often her ancestry changed
The character’s in-universe backstory and parentage have changed more than once. During the 1960s, she and Quicksilver were said to be the mutant twin offspring of two unnamed parents. Later, it was said the children were given to the geneticist called the High Evolutionary, leaving their true parentage a mystery. In 1974, it was said their parents are Golden Age heroes Bob Frank / Whizzer and Madeline Joyce Frank / Miss America. Wanda then refers to herself as Wanda Frank for a time. In 1979, they are revealed to have been raised by human Romani parents, Django and Marya Maximoff. In 1982, Magneto concludes he and a human Sinti woman named Magda are Wanda and Pietro’s parents. In 2014, the AXIS crossover revealed Pietro and Wanda are not related to Magneto. In 2015, the twins discover they are not mutants and their superhuman traits are the result of the High Evolutionary’s experiments combined with Wanda genetically being a Witch, born with natural magical abilities. The 2015–2017 Scarlet Witch series reveals that Wanda and Pietro’s adoptive parents, Django and Marya Maximoff, are biologically their aunt and uncle. Their real mother is confirmed to be Natalya Maximoff, the previous Scarlet Witch, a Serbian Roma sorceress whose father was the Scarlet Warlock.
Fucking comics smh
It does seem that she usually has 1 parent who is Romani since 1979 though.
Some of these might have been to avoid blatant racial stereotypes, particularly with Tilda Swinton and Liam Neeson. Johnny Depp, not so much.
Well Liam Neeson being white was explicitly part of the story and a play a play on blatant racial stereotypes, he had an asian stand in who “looked like” ras al ghul would so he could hide his identity. In fact because it’s a rather “realistic” take on the superhero it’s implied that Ras Al Ghul is not a single person, it’s always just a cover for the current leader of the league of shadows or whatever they are called
if white is being used this generically then romani should be listed as white and arab should be middle eastern and tibetan asian if not lumping both as asian.
Romani are actually a group of Indians who traveled up to Europe I believe over 1000 years ago, according to recent dna testing. The history of why the group migrated is lost to time. After so many generations a few white people got in there certainly, but originally people thought they were egyptian.
and thats the thing. white is thrown around but its a very imprecisely defined thing.
Believe me, white folk do get offended about non-white characters being changed to white, in fact they the most likely ones to be offended, especially when it comes to historic figures. All this meme is doing is framing an inaccurate depiction of white folk to suit a biased narrative. Keep in mind also, a minority few cannot represent an entirety. Just as all black or asian folk are not alike, same holds true for white folk. This an era where a difference in race is not the concern, but rather the upper class rich people that use ethnic label stereotyping to have us fight among each other as distraction. Don’t fall for their trickery of dividing us.
The more I think about how we label race, the more I realize how arbitrary it all is. IIRC we used to consider Irish people as non-white at one point. That’s fucking bonkers
Also race isn’t something science thinks is a thing, really
True dat. If it were, we’d likely have latin names for different races like “Homo sapiens sapiens caucasus” or some stupid shit, lmao. Nope, humans just have different colors and features naturally, and that’s pretty neat.
I’d probaby classify it more as human variants or sub-varients. Intially and historical origins of ancestors, blacks would’ve lived closer toward the equater of the earth where temperatures were warmer and more tropical and white folk lived in a bit cooler less tropical climates in the north. Our climates started off very different and we adapt to changing enviroments. I notice that american blacks are very different from african blacks. I think many american blacks are mixed or may have some italian in their genes. It’s interesting the many variants in people that barely have any classification if any. It can get quite complex and confusing, so many people just lump them in with others. This holds true for people of kinds too. Trying to fit in another form of classification can also be tricky, but not just because complex variants, but also people might get too easily offended. Had some neat ideas of classification, but some people might not see in the same light and might think it meant to offend.
“sub-variants” “blacks” “equater 🤠” “american blacks vs african blacks” just the entire lines between “it’s interesting…” and “…for people of kinds too.”
(((kkkomplex))) variant
had some neat ideas of classification
people might not see in the same light
think it meant to offend
gee, buddy, i wonder why.
look i won’t even begin to sit here and try to break down the problems with your rhetoric & diction for you, but whatever tf it is in your head that regards race; it got sum mad fucked up with it. like wtf does half of this racist drivel mean?? subvariants?? excuse me is it 1902??? i’d wager a bet your “neat ideas” for human classification are some of the most bigoted and awful things to come out of someone’s mouth, and you’d say them with complete unremorse and not a single wince of irony.
I come in more hoping for a disccusion, not a battle. Might i ask you to refrain from being rash or hostile. No reason this needs to get uncivil. Same for dasus. Having a mind set to win arguements is unneccessary here. Please talk to me, not at me.
frankly, and people can call me an asshole for this but i truly do mean it as kindly as possible, talking to you doesn’t seem worth my time. someone who knows you in your life and cares is in a much better position to explain why what you’re saying is not just simple, but morally maladjusted.
yeah i was rude to you. you were espousing ideas that are racist in nature. no i don’t have a responsibility to explain before i respond negatively in turn. i really do hope you take this and your admitted previous bad receptions as an indication you should study what race actually is, and get a clearer idea of what “human classifications [sic]” really are. what you are saying is wrong and hurtful. it makes people’s lives worse when you say things like this and you don’t really care
And all that is garbage that belongs with the race-scientist of the early 20th century.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/02/the-unwelcome-revival-of-race-science
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/
“What the study of complete genomes from different parts of the world has shown is that even between Africa and Europe, for example, there is not a single absolute genetic difference, meaning no single variant where all Africans have one variant and all Europeans another one, even when recent migration is disregarded,”
Not sure how viable these sites are as sources, but also i don’t know enough about genetics to determine full extent of changes over long stretches of time. All i know is trying to apply a logical sense of possibilities. In my speculation, just though it to makes sense for climates that are more hot and sunny for people to adabt with darker skin. Even if different races have all the same genetics, might not mean the genetics are not used in different ways. Clearly there is something there that instructs people to have different skin colors and other minor changes. It’s not a bad thing to ask what causes these physical differences and why they occur. What you thoughts on what causes the variations of physcal differences if not genetics?
Why are you bothering to write all that shit when you can’t be bothered to take the few minutes to read those links? Which are from actual scientists, and not someone having racist brainfarts.
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Well, in the sense that ofc “social sciences” would include history for one, and historically, it was recognised as a notion. And in the sense that that notion is a social construct, is something that modern social sciences would study, obviously.
I think you know — but now I’m saying in case you didn’t — that I meant that the notion that there is a biological race of any sort isn’t a notion modern science would agree with.
They’re not white they’re ghostly, ain’t no sun there
👻
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“You will not replace us!” shouted the white supremacists after centuries of erasing a multitude of other cultures, histories, and societies.
Really shows you that their worldview leaves no room for multiculturalism lol. As soon as brown people are let into their country’s borders, bam, suddenly their whole identity and culture ceases to exist somehow, despite still being the majority.
It has always been about power.
Is Johnny depp white?
Yes.
People would have been pissed if some of those were racially accurate
I absolutely remember people being mad about the first one.
The others not so much. The fantasy movies don’t really matter the same way as a historical movie about slavery does. The fantasy characters are even gender swapped without a problem at conventions.
And yes that means the racists who got mad about Ariel are dumb.
Yeah Marvel characters’ identities don’t usually feel important. Nick Fury was race swapped for the movies and it was well-received.
I think people were mad about the avatar one or whatever that movie is.
