I just got permanently banned from a community for making a single harmless remark on a single post that was right there in the main feed. It’s not a community I’m super active in so it’s not like devastating, but it is annoying
If your precious little community is full of so many delicate sensitive people who can’t even be reminded that another viewpoint even exists, then you should really protect them by defederating and having everyone join your private website
The mod has literally removed like 75% of the comments and banned everyone lol
I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t have time to read every rule for every community that pops up when I’m in view all
I defended @[email protected] when a comment of theirs was reported.
I was just given context on this. Looking at their comments in that light, I have decided to ban them from [email protected] for all their bad faith arguments. Banning people for “bad faith” voting is bullshit. Coming here to defend that horrible action will not be tolerated.
Thank you and good riddance to @[email protected], when you look at the amount of subs she is modding, it’s quite worrying. It makes me wonder if she does anything else with her time.
Vegans will talk mad shit and then get so mad when their thread reaches nonvegan feeds.
Can’t stand the heat, which is why they eat salad.
Rip roast veggies
Looks like it’s just a temp ban, not permanent:
I appreciate that, but I already blocked the mod and the community. There’s no point in even trying to deal with someone like that for a community I’m not super active in. I honestly can’t imagine that even vegan people will want to stay there much longer if it’s gotten this bad
Isn’t blocking them essentially you banning them from your posts and comments? Why is that different?
If OP didn’t want to see the community, he really should have hosted his own instance and only federated with select few.
Or just block it the first time they see it
(I was being facetious)
Isn’t blocking them essentially you banning them from your posts and comments? Why is that different?
No. Blocking in Lemmy is simply a way to remove something from your sight; even if you block a user, the user can still interact with your posts/comments just fine.
Right, but my point is OP is criticising the community or its mods for not wanting to interact with everyone and then not wanting to interact with everyone themselves
I personally think blocking and banning is fine in sensible amounts. Sometimes someone is just making your experience worse and bringing nothing to the table for you. I’m interested to hear OP’s thoughts on what looks a bit hypocritical to me
I am not sure but I think that OP’s point is more like “they don’t allow everyone to talk” than “they don’t want to hear you”. I’m saying this based on his usage of “participate” plus the focus on the mod side of the things.
If my interpretation is correct, there’s no hypocrisy, even if I don’t fully agree with it.
I personally think blocking and banning is fine in sensible amounts.
I full agree with you on this. Specially when it comes to blocking.
I don’t think this opinion is really all that unpopular, but I get that this sub is often used to air grievances and somewhat popular opinions, so I won’t judge too harshly.
Pretty impressive modlog rap sheet you got there OP! I had my last account for over a year and I don’t think I got banned or had a comment removed once, so seeing an account with dozens of entries is eye opening to say the least. This account is new enough that I’ve managed to stay off the modlogs so far with it as far as I’m aware. Maybe I should go into a random sub and say something racist and/or toxic! Are there any dog specific communities where I can request dog meat recipes?
So, like, if I organize a block party where everyone’s invited, and someone drops a deuce in the punch bowl, I shouldn’t ask them to leave because I should have had a discrete guest list?
Yeah, I don’t really get it either.
You don’t have to comment on everything you see. Seems more logical to focus on a few communities you know, and pay more attention when you browse All.
Even if you comment, it’s okay to be banned. Move on. Why make a post to complain about it if you don’t care?
I’d say it’s more like I went to a party where the host invited the entire block but only wants people there wearing funny hats, but didn’t tell anyone they had to wear a funny hat and then called the police to complain that their house is full of people who aren’t wearing funny hats.
I’d take the ban without question if I was acting like an ass on there, but all I did was make a comment that didn’t specifically agree with them that everyone who isn’t vegan is apparently a horrible person who persecutes vegans constantly lol
but didn’t tell anyone they had to wear a funny hat
FYI, I don’t know the specific case here, just being generic.
The rules are right there in the sidebar in pretty much all clients, though it varies on mobile depending on app/web UI. Most communities here have rules. Society has rules. Ignorance of those rules, whether accidental or willful, is never a valid excuse for breaking them. “I’m sorry, officer, I didn’t know I couldn’t do that” isn’t a valid legal strategy.
To return to the analogy: it would be like showing up to the event without a funny hat despite the invitation clearly stating that a funny hat is required and then being asked to leave. It’s on the attendee to read the details on the invitation and be aware of any requirements.
“Calling the police” would be more akin to escalating to a site admin to have you banned for that which, I agree, would be extreme unless the person decided to be an ass and make a scene on the way out (not throwing shade with that, just using an actual party example I’ve had to deal with).
Doesn’t explain the 20 or so users banned in the past couple of hours for “rule 5” having never posted in the community.
Well put
Upvoted as unpopular. I don’t know if I agree with this or not (on general grounds), it’s extremely complicated.
In theory it’s completely OK to have a community for a restricted but non-private demographic, and often it’s how you avoid a crowd of “excuuuuse me, I’m going to debate the same stale points over and over, and I expect you to waste your time with me”.
In practice we know that there’s a high chance that the community evolves into an echo chamber, of the dumbest type - that claps to convenient idiocy, but ridicules inconvenient truth.
If it’s sensible to have a community like this, as well as the outcome of having it like this, depends mostly on the sanity of whoever is in charge of the comm.
[Edited for subtle rewording. No change on discourse.]
Not to be all “not like the other girls” about veganism, but I kind of hate the general vegan communities. They always end up turning into a who can hate meat eaters the most contest and the less extreme members usually leave. It’s also really frustrating because the goal should be to get more people eating plant based, and their methods just push people away. Yeah, of course I believe people should stop eating meat, and I struggle to understand how someone can acknowledge the cruelty of factory farming and turn around and eat a burger, but shouting them down isn’t accomplishing anything. I’m not going to engage with the people who show up just to talk shit, but I’m down to talk to anyone actually open to a conversation.
That said, there are a lot of people who think it’s suuuuper funny to seek out vegan communities to make the same tired ass comments that lead to vegans becoming angrier and more insular, so I really don’t want to make this a Vegans Bad comment. I get the desire to tell people to fuck off. It’s exhausting to try to talk about a news article and be constantly drowned out by trolls.
OP, I don’t know what your comment said, but you know whether or not you were engaging in good faith. Maybe you deserved the ban, maybe not. I just think maybe sometimes we could all stand to keep scrolling.
I struggle to understand how someone can acknowledge the cruelty of factory farming and turn around and eat a burger,
Because cruelty is inherent to food production in most places in the west, to one degree or another. Even for non-factory farmed meat, there’s going to be some cruelty at the very end of an animal’s life, since event he most compassionate slaughter is still slaughter. But even going past that, to plant-based foods. in the US at least we rely on labor abuses in order to have groceries that are affordable. The migrants that pick oranges in Florida (or, picked; DeSantis is trying to eliminate undocumented immigrants, and the result is that farmers are having a very hard time finding labor) work in terrible conditions for horrible pay, conditions that no person protected by labor laws would ever accept. But we, as a society, are aware of this, and accept that this cruelty is necessary for us, because we won’t–or can’t–pay for produce that comes from co-op farms.
We–all of us–pick and choose where we put our energy.
It’s also really frustrating because the goal should be to get more people eating plant based, and their methods just push people away.
Why should that be the goal of the c/vegan community? Why can’t it just be for vegans to vent, and exchange advice/news about vegan food?
This expectation that vegans need to always be positive and welcoming towards meat eaters barging into their vegan communities is exhausting and kind of ridiculous.It’s a fairly common tactic of evangelical religious groups to send young people out to proselytize; they say that they’re called to spread the religion to the whole world, and that the proselytizing is to save people by converting them. The tactics that the young people are taught are often antagonistic. An extreme example is the Westboro Baptist Church, but all evangelical religions use similar tactics. Unsurprisingly, very few people convert. The true purpose of antagonistic proselytizing is to reinforce in/out group status; the youth are rejected by outside people, while being praised by people within their own group. That reinforces their feelings of comfort and safety within their group, and makes it more difficult for them to leave. Leaving the safety of the group means that they’re severing their most intimate social connections, and that cost is too high for most people.
This was my experience as a Mormon; this has been the experience of many Mormons, and of all people that have left high-demand evangelical religions.
IF they really cared about getting more people to join their religion, they would be opening and welcoming to people, even people that were antagonistic to them. When you think about it from a PR standpoint, it should be clear that acting antagonistically towards people that simply don’t believe the same things–not people that are being antagonistic themselves–works counter to the purpose of persuasion.
I get what you’re saying, but the idea that every vegan community must make it their goal to convert people, and act accordingly, is just wrong.
What if they just want to shitpost among themselves?Then they can do so in the privacy of their own fora.
Oh I don’t feel like I need to be welcoming to people who have no intention of listening and are just there to be dicks. I just don’t want to push away anyone who might be open to the idea of changing their diet by immediately telling them what a terrible person they are for not doing it already. It’s important to me not just to reduce the harm I do, but to try to minimize it elsewhere if I can.
You are now banned from c/vegan
THANK YOU ! I was feeling like I was alone with this point of view…
Was I voting on comments on bad faith?
Well let’s not pretend people don’t routinely use the downvote as a disagree button. And you’ll notice I never said the mod in question was 100% right or wrong, just that I can see how people on both sides end up angry.
Disagreement isn’t an invalid case for voting, despite what Reddit had people believing before.
The voting system is to let people know how many people thought this content was good or not good for the feed. If you shouldn’t downvote for disagreement, then you shouldn’t upvote for agreement either
But nobody has any problem with that
No. You got banned and now you’re butt hurt about it. A tale as old as time.
Let’s assume (something that should not be done) that OP is indeed butthurt.
And then, what? The merit/demerit of what OP says is orthogonal to their emotional state.
Nah, a ton of people say the same thing.
They’re wrong, and so are the immediate bans (the bans are asshole moves, but you don’t just jump into a C/ without checking the vibe a little), but it’s too common a complaint to call unpopular.
I got banned for downvoting. Kind of hard to take people seriously when they’re so sensitive to criticism that the equivalent of a thumbs down emoji gets you banned.
Pretty sure I just got banned from c/vegan because I downvoted “wrong”. Haven’t interacted in any other way, so not sure what else it could be. Also recently got banned from c/imageai for downvoting “too much”? This is a weird trend that seems like a bad path for Lemmy to go down if it’s starting to become the norm.
*Also, what’s up with not being able to block a community you’re banned from? They don’t want you there but you’re forced to view their content? That makes no sense.
Also, what’s up with not being able to block a community you’re banned from?
Wait, really? I’m gonna have to check on that. Curious if that’s an API limitation or a frontend bug. What frontend did you use? Lemmy-UI?
I just checked and using the default Lemmy UI (on desktop) you totally can block communities you’re banned from. I’m pretty sure what we’re looking at must be some kind of UI/front end bug.
Thanks for the additional info. I’m gonna set up test cases in the UI I work with and try to confirm (and handle it better if need be). A UI bug was my assumption as well.
Thanks. I’ll add that to my test cases for the UI I work with. I don’t think I’ve ever tried to block a community the test user was banned from, so I’m curious if it’s an API restriction or the way the UI handles it. Will prob also submit a bug once I figure out which.
Edit: That looks like the community options that have the “block community” button are all hidden when you’re banned rather than the “block” functionality being restricted. I’m almost positive now that it’s just a UI bug. Will still add it to my test cases, though.
I see a lot of comments about a particular vegan community. Sounds like people here need something like c/chillVegans where you don’t get kicked out unless you’re a total menace.
The problem is that people love to needle vegans, so it would just end up as gore.
If the vegans there can’t take a joke, they aren’t very chill. However, being intentionally offensive and rude shouldn’t be tolerated, even if it’s a chill place.
Pretend that it’s any other earnestly held belief. I wouldn’t expect a chill Catholic community to be down with cannibalism jokes, I’d just expect them not to engage in purity tests or call non-Christians heathens. I’d expect that a chill Hindu community would remove “Holy cow!” comments, but they probably wouldn’t remove people for admitting they eat chicken or ban non-Hindus.
I would expect a chill vegan community not to remove comments from people who eat meat or to call omnivores “bloodmouths,” but jokes like “how do you spot a vegan?” or “I’m going to eat twice as much meat tonight to make up for you” would probably still get removed. I get that the second one seems harsh, but it’s a system of ethics for vegans, so it isn’t a joking matter for them.
Plus, all four of those jokes are way, way overdone.
How about you kick out all of the actual assholes?
Feel free, based on this comment section, we’d all appreciate it.
I don’t personally want to sort through that gore, which is a pretty common attitude for vegans. I suspect that’s why there aren’t more general spaces for chill vegans.
Also recently got banned from c/imageai for downvoting “too much”?
My guess is it’s because there are a bunch of people who hate AI in general, and they want votes to instead reflect which images people like or don’t like for what they are instead of every post having a negative score.
Yep. Banning users who aren’t subscribed to a community and are just downvoting everything that comes up is pretty common and understandable.
The typical modlog entry I see for that is “block the community or curate your feed”, and I think that’s pretty justified. It’s like intentionally showing up somewhere you don’t want to be just to “booooo” everything there. Being asked to leave and not demoralize the people just trying to exist in their own space is perfectly fine, IMO.
Voting on content in the feed is helping to curate it for others. If a community gets more down votes than up votes, maybe the community is the one at odds with people
If you’re browsing “Subscribed” sure. But don’t browse “all” just to shit on things you have no interest in. Block the community and move on 🤷♂️
If downvoting for disagreement isn’t okay, then why is it okay to upvote for agreement? (And why did you downvote me, if you think that’s a bad thing?)
Voting is so users can express their opinion of what does or doesn’t belong in the feed. People who can’t handle mild criticism or disagreement shouldn’t be posting things in public spaces
Personally, I agree with the vegan philosophy of reducing factory farming of meat. What I think is bad for society is villainizing anyone who doesn’t 100% agree with the most extreme viewpoints. Which is explicitly the sort of posts I downvote
And also why I’m no longer allowed to downvote toxic vegan posts in Lemmy.ca
Also, what’s up with not being able to block a community you’re banned from?
I’d like a setting that automatically hides communities where I can’t participate. If I have to be a member of some club, hit some threshold of something, whatever; I just don’t want to see it, then.
Yeah same. I don’t downvote indescriminately, but a post had factory farmed fish : 0 not factory farmed. Like no shit. Whatever, that supermod was going off the deep end with their comments lately.
I have zero clue who/what you’re talking about, and I feel I’m better off for that.
Is “agreement” a rule? That’s too incongruous to believe – only because loyalty requirements are a far right thing, not the rules for a group typically skewing left.
I love the Lemmy vegan community - they are the second greatest shitposters around (fuckcars have the edge due to their expert ragebaiting).
Nah. Perhaps the third.
The greatest shitposters are the people talking about AI and large language models.
inb4 “to criticise them or to embrace them?” - yes.
I actually really wish we could flag communities or posts as “excluded from the main feed.”
There have been several posts I’ve made or that my bot has made (from community specific RSS feeds) that get down votes seemingly from people completely outside of the community.
For instance, I had a post about a heavy Standard Notes discount … pretty relevant to Standard Notes users; down voted like crazy in the early days of lemmy.world.
Similarly, the other day Bungie made several post about Destiny around the same time. The bot faithfully posted all of them, but several got down voted, almost definitely because someone who didn’t care about Destiny down voted the “spam” since several posts were about Destiny around the same time in the “main feed” (and they were probably sorting by “New”).
My retort/unpopular opinion: There’s no recommendation algorithm, if it’s not a community you’re subscribed to, and you don’t care about it … what the heck are you doing engaging with it? Move on to the next post or block the community.
Alternatively, we should be able to block interactions from people who haven’t subscribed to the community without limiting federation or making it moderator only.
When you down vote a post of a community you’re not a part of you’re actively hurting its surfacing in the feeds of people in that community that use feed algorithms other than “New” or “Controversial”.
My retort/unpopular opinion: There’s no recommendation algorithm, if it’s not a community you’re subscribed to, and you don’t care about it … what the heck are you doing engaging with it? Move on to the next post or block the community.
Agreed
Alternatively, we should be able to block interactions from people who haven’t subscribed to the community without limiting federation or making it moderator only
At the moment, the only option is to ban them
I moderated a left wing community at one point, so by your logic I should allow Liberals to flood the community until its no longer left wing? Im not saying Liberals aren’t allowed but its stated clearly in the sidebar that they shouldn’t talk over the intended audience (left wingers).
We all know it’s the vegan community. I got banned for simply voting on comments.
Now they’re also spamming posts to fill up everyone’s feeds.
I missed this whole thing. I’ve had them blocked for as long as I can remember.
Could have been lemmy.ml!
That explains why I’m banned from there. I saw a post from there pop up on all that I actually agreed with and when I tried to comment I learned I was banned.
It was indeed! The post in question was particularly smarmy and my response was pretty tame in comparison. Why even have a community if you don’t want anyone to have a conversation?
Vegans are a relative minority group that a lot of people like to antagonise. That’s not to say you were doing that, I haven’t looked at what you got banned over. Just that a lot of people do go out of their way to try to annoy vegans, and because there are relatively few vegans those people can quickly drown out any attempt to discuss, like, vegan recipes and such
vegans are a relatively minor group
Wanna debunk that real quick. I live in Berlin, every major supermarket has a few sections completely dedicated to vegans. And I’m pretty sure they’ve also become a bit larger in general. Still the minority, but definitely significant by now.
That said, a very small minority is very vocal about it. A lot of people in my circles just live it, and they don’t really care to proclaim it, that’s the difference. And sure a lot of them want people to eat less meat, but no one is gonna get on your ass about it.
Doesn’t really change the jist of what you’re saying of course, just wanna make sure we’re not dragging the whole movement into it.
Germany has an absolutely huge vegan and vegetarian population compared to other countries though, Berlin even more so. More rural areas of Germany are a very different story, but it’s still way more of the population than in most places.
Take this with a grain of salt, because it’s been more than a decade, but the only restaurant I could visit in the early 2010s in Heidelberg (!) as a vegetarian was an Indian restaurant. I’m in a different college town now and it’s like 20% vegan, but the age demographics are similar to Berlin.
Honestly most of the posts I see on /c/vegan or /c/veganmemes are just making fun of and antagonizing people who eat meat lmao
It’s tribalism. We’re unfortunately all guilty of it in one way or another and it has become more serious with the increase of social media use
I like this explanation in particular: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beyond-school-walls/202304/tribalism-in-the-age-of-social-media
Edit: to add, I am suspecting that I’m still getting brigaded by a group I pissed off last week. It really doesn’t bother me if they are doing that, but there are people that take their internet points more serious than I do so there are definitely people in the fediverse that will do that to you
If it helps, votes on here do literally nothing outside of the post they’re in. If there’s a lot on one comment, it gets sorted to the bottom and maybe collapsed, but that’s it. If someone is going around downvoting you, they’re just wasting their own time.
Oh yeah I’m aware. I’m not worried about it. I wouldn’t have even figured it out if a couple of people didn’t try to taunt me.
That’s… sad.
Same here lmfao, the utter sensitivity.
Edit: Also, it’s mostly that one power-mod spamming vitriolic posts. I just blocked them and my feed is a lot nicer. Dude’s checking the database and just banning everyone who downvotes him.
Is that something regular moderators can do…?
Not that I particularly care, but I moderate three communities on here and none of the tools available to me show who downvoted what. Exposing that type of info with that type of granularity feels like a bad idea to me; the sort of thing that is just begging to invite some sort of abuse.
ActivityPub votes are public by design, Lemmy just hides the voters from users, while Mbin displays them. Anyone can also spin up their own instance and get access to the data.
PieFed recently added a feature to pseudonymize votes. When enabled, your votes are labeled with the name of a shadow account linked to yours, but only the administrators of your instance know that it belongs to you.
shadow account linked to yours, but only the administrators of your instance know
- Vote my conscience
- Bribe my admins to secrecy
Gotcha!
Yep, I mean you can see for yourself, I’ve never posted anything about veganism nor have I posted on the sub, and I was banned for “anti vegan sentiment” or something, I don’t feel like looking back at their rules lol.
Their rules have the “word” “carnist” in them, so that should show you how seriously to take them.
It’s a real word, even if it’s a relative neologism, so I’m not sure why you have the scare quotes around it. In fact, the term has been in use for over t20 years, so, IDK man, maybe accept it. Implying that it’s not a real word because you don’t like it–versus because it’s used as a slur to other people–kinda feels like Musk’s complaints about cisgender.
Wasn’t ‘spastic’ a mainstream word too, for a hundred years? (Popularity again somehow implies legitimacy here). And I’m sure we can find a number of really objectionable words from the warmer us states that were incredibly popular for decades and are, yet, offensive.
Likewise, we’re allowed to dislike words like ‘moist’ and lazy prefixes like ‘cis’ while understanding they are still - for the moment - words.
This is a terrible tangent, though, and I’m okay if we stop this worthless digression.
Is spastic no longer an acceptable word? The only context I have for it is involuntary motion, from spasm. (Or the great Skinny Puppy song, Spasmolytic.)
You don’t think it’s awfully telling that it doesn’t make any regular occurrence until that community picks it up?
I think that it’s irrelevant to whether or not it’s a real word. All words are made-up words. There wasn’t any term for cis-gender that had any kind of popularity until about 20 years ago, simply because no one thought of the concept in that way; you were either normal/typical, or you were transsexual (transgender is the preferred term now, since people are also more likely to understand gender in terms of social construction rather than genitals or chromosomes).
Similarly, you can say that carnist is the opposite of vegan; a carnist is someone that is not vegan. A person that is cisgendered is not transgendered. A person that is heterosexual is not homosexual.
Do I find what vegans imply with the term to be insulting? Yes. But that doesn’t make it any less real.
I have a cousin on FB who’s like that, spamming feeds with a lot of stuff promoting a diet that works around her particular allergies and needs and trying to proselytize it to anyone who appears to be listening. The volume was actually really high, and for stuff that isn’t family stuff like I usually use that account to just see.
So, blocked. It’s like her and a rabid anti-gov/vax/tax nutjob blocked, and I dunno whether that’s right.
Block them can’t you?
How about we try to keep everything less shitty?
Then that’s a you problem then. You have a solution and are choosing not to use it.
No, it’s a federation problem.
🤣 you’re being a drama queen. Seriously just let it go and either block the community or stop bitching about it
I suppose the irony is lost on you.
I’m not vegan but I used to actually enjoy their posts. There were some interesting viewpoints and decent conversations before it turned into this weird little echo chamber lol
The cat food thing was a huge jumble, I suspect things will calm down again a bit later.
They’ll just find something else to have a temper tantrum over.
Just leave the rabid vegans alone. They are showing you who they are. Believe them and don’t waste your time trying to be rational with them.
