See here’s what’s really really funny, people over and over again say “man if the vegan people who were trying to convince me could just not be gigantic assholes about it then maybe it would be easier to join their community”
And then you come along and are a gigantic asshole about it and prove the entire point.
If you need people to be nice to you to convince you, you care more about appearances than the argument. If people being rude stops you from acting on something you actually believe in you won’t last a month as a vegan.
Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.
The first lesson every vegan needs to learn is: there are no rewards and no one will compliment you. You are doing this out of your own conviction and not for anyone else.
Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.
Hey, asshole, you’ve been an idiot the whole time on top of being a huge asshole
The person didn’t say “Id go vegan but they’re assholes”, they said they’d not participate in a community with you dumbasses because of the behaviour people like you participate in
Also your insults suck and make people sound cool as fuck
Not being an asshole to people is the default behaviour, to be dropped when someone breaks the social contract and does not uphold their end
I get that your parents didn’t teach you basic manners but that’s not our job either. Learn how not to be a bitter piece of shit or be forever considered a perfect and pathetic example of OPs point
My comment poking fun at the ridiculousness of double standard in tone policing got removed for trolling so let me be more explicit:
There were already very rude jokes and comments about vegans in this thread. Rudeness against vegans is the norm and played for laughs, but god forbid a vegan returns the favor then suddenly everyone is crying for more civility.
Also sincerely held beliefs should be communicated sincerely. No ones going to believe the dude that says “I think what you’re taking part in is a horrific injustice carried out on an industrial scale but to each their own I guess. Lets agree to disagree.”
This is precisely the circlejerking mentioned in the meme. Whether true or not, the community presents itself as unwelcoming and self-aggrandizing. These are not traits that easily convince people to listen to the cause.
There’s nothing to listen to, either you believe animal ag is horrendous and unethical and act on it or you don’t. That’s it. No pretty pleases are going to convince someone they have to give up their beloved steak and cheese for nothing in return.
Right, we get it, but if you tried attracting people to veganism with amazing recipes, and annecdotes of how much healthier you feel, people might come have a conversation and try making some vegan food. Instead these communities drive anyone non-vegan right out the door.
What’s the expression? Honey will catch more flies?
Reformism doesn’t work. People that are vegan because it’s “actually really good food” or looking for applause for “saving the planet” stop being vegan once it becomes too inconvenient. Because their mindset is that they are doing something good and you can stop doing good things or balance them out with other good deeds and there is an inherent expectation of a reward for being good.
Not supporting slavery and murder however should be the norm, not something that feels like a burden. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can’t accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won’t accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their child. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren’t interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. This isn’t a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.
Why are you so smug while plugging your ears and kicking your feet? Would you kill the animals you eat with your own two hands? I doubt that most would. We’re so far removed from the horrific violence of the industry and so inundated with farmed meat that people don’t even register what it actually is anymore. This isn’t even to mention that animal meat is carcinogenic, particularly in the amounts we eat. We don’t have a problem with people being anti-smoking or anti-violence, but as soon as “loud annoying” vegan asks you to reflect on the environment, people’s health, or the nightmarish violence we inflict on farmed animals, it’s absolute pandemonium from the meat eaters.
IMO most don’t/won’t want to deal with the cognitive dissonance.
What’s more apt? Demand? I literally never see a “militant” vegan emerge anywhere unless in a thread like this which demonizes a (diverse) group of people for giving a shit about animals and this planet. I think that most people who give thought to this problem will eventually realize that they aren’t primal hunters capable of taking the life of animals, let alone a new animal or more every day.
Having a reasonable discussion with these people is like trying to play a game of chess with a pigeon. They’ll topple all the pieces, shit on the board and claim victory.
Gonna copy large chunks of my last comment because no ones there to stop me.
This isn’t a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. Not supporting slavery and murder should be the norm, not something that needs to be argued for at length. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can’t accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won’t accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their newborn. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren’t interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. It’s a horrific injustice and we will talk about it as such. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.
Here is another one: That meat on your plate comes from an animal that could feel. It had a whole life full of feelings and dreams. It might’ve liked some food but disliked other, it probably had friends, it had a mom and a dad, it was loved. Then they killed it, shipped it, you cooked it and ate it.
If belligerent internet comments actually convinced you to change your diet in such an inconvenient manner for no reward but moral superiority, you are not like the people you’re trying to convince. Abusers and cults love bomb because its more effective on a random sample of people
If one believes that the mother losing her newborn cries about it for days and that this is happening on an industrial scale that person will be very indignant about such a horrific injustice. That’s what convinced me, this is a real injustice and not being angry about it would be insincere
If your belief lives or dies because of some internet comment it won’t last anyway.
See here’s what’s really really funny, people over and over again say “man if the vegan people who were trying to convince me could just not be gigantic assholes about it then maybe it would be easier to join their community”
And then you come along and are a gigantic asshole about it and prove the entire point.
Super solid representation, 5/7, perfection.
If you need people to be nice to you to convince you, you care more about appearances than the argument. If people being rude stops you from acting on something you actually believe in you won’t last a month as a vegan.
Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.
The first lesson every vegan needs to learn is: there are no rewards and no one will compliment you. You are doing this out of your own conviction and not for anyone else.
You must be exhausting to be around. sheesh
this should be on a billboard.
Well this has been great, thanks for being the point.
good talk nice representation, really convinced me to be nicer to corpsemunchers going forward.
You’re a breatharian? No corpse munching from you.
Are you pure enough that you feed the bacteria in your body without suffering?
while i think you are actually starting to violate community rules here, i just wanna say i think your conduct up to this point has been fine.
Hey, asshole, you’ve been an idiot the whole time on top of being a huge asshole
The person didn’t say “Id go vegan but they’re assholes”, they said they’d not participate in a community with you dumbasses because of the behaviour people like you participate in
Also your insults suck and make people sound cool as fuck
Hey maybe if you people would be NICER to me I would entertain the thought that I was in the wrong
Not being an asshole to people is the default behaviour, to be dropped when someone breaks the social contract and does not uphold their end
I get that your parents didn’t teach you basic manners but that’s not our job either. Learn how not to be a bitter piece of shit or be forever considered a perfect and pathetic example of OPs point
well you just arent going to convince me by being rude you have to ask me nicely and maybe Ill think about it
mathemachristian is a Hexbearite, them being an asshole isn’t at all surprising.
My comment poking fun at the ridiculousness of double standard in tone policing got removed for trolling so let me be more explicit:
There were already very rude jokes and comments about vegans in this thread. Rudeness against vegans is the norm and played for laughs, but god forbid a vegan returns the favor then suddenly everyone is crying for more civility.
Also sincerely held beliefs should be communicated sincerely. No ones going to believe the dude that says “I think what you’re taking part in is a horrific injustice carried out on an industrial scale but to each their own I guess. Lets agree to disagree.”
This is precisely the circlejerking mentioned in the meme. Whether true or not, the community presents itself as unwelcoming and self-aggrandizing. These are not traits that easily convince people to listen to the cause.
There’s nothing to listen to, either you believe animal ag is horrendous and unethical and act on it or you don’t. That’s it. No pretty pleases are going to convince someone they have to give up their beloved steak and cheese for nothing in return.
Right, we get it, but if you tried attracting people to veganism with amazing recipes, and annecdotes of how much healthier you feel, people might come have a conversation and try making some vegan food. Instead these communities drive anyone non-vegan right out the door.
What’s the expression? Honey will catch more flies?
Reformism doesn’t work. People that are vegan because it’s “actually really good food” or looking for applause for “saving the planet” stop being vegan once it becomes too inconvenient. Because their mindset is that they are doing something good and you can stop doing good things or balance them out with other good deeds and there is an inherent expectation of a reward for being good.
Not supporting slavery and murder however should be the norm, not something that feels like a burden. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can’t accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won’t accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their child. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren’t interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. This isn’t a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.
it is. most people oppose slavery and murder.
Animal agriculture isn’t slavery. I can tell your exact skin tone by the fact you had the gall to make that comparison cx
Stealing labor while keeping the laborers alive at the barest minimum possible and trading them as property is slavery.
Then why are you trying so hard to explain yourself?
Why are you so smug while plugging your ears and kicking your feet? Would you kill the animals you eat with your own two hands? I doubt that most would. We’re so far removed from the horrific violence of the industry and so inundated with farmed meat that people don’t even register what it actually is anymore. This isn’t even to mention that animal meat is carcinogenic, particularly in the amounts we eat. We don’t have a problem with people being anti-smoking or anti-violence, but as soon as “loud annoying” vegan asks you to reflect on the environment, people’s health, or the nightmarish violence we inflict on farmed animals, it’s absolute pandemonium from the meat eaters.
IMO most don’t/won’t want to deal with the cognitive dissonance.
That word is doing some heavy lifting. What does asking look like to you?
What’s more apt? Demand? I literally never see a “militant” vegan emerge anywhere unless in a thread like this which demonizes a (diverse) group of people for giving a shit about animals and this planet. I think that most people who give thought to this problem will eventually realize that they aren’t primal hunters capable of taking the life of animals, let alone a new animal or more every day.
Sorry, I’m not going to participate if you’re going to be abusive.
Abusive? 😂 I accept your apology.
thing is, it’s a philosophy of empathy and compassion. you don’t really join a.commmunity. there are no V cards I’m afraid.
This discussion is literally about the vegan community here on Lemmy
I thought it was more about abuse.
Having a reasonable discussion with these people is like trying to play a game of chess with a pigeon. They’ll topple all the pieces, shit on the board and claim victory.
Gonna copy large chunks of my last comment because no ones there to stop me.
This isn’t a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. Not supporting slavery and murder should be the norm, not something that needs to be argued for at length. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can’t accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won’t accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their newborn. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren’t interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. It’s a horrific injustice and we will talk about it as such. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.
this is pretty much just appeal to emotion.
Here is another one: That meat on your plate comes from an animal that could feel. It had a whole life full of feelings and dreams. It might’ve liked some food but disliked other, it probably had friends, it had a mom and a dad, it was loved. Then they killed it, shipped it, you cooked it and ate it.
very good. have you considered creative writing as a career?
If belligerent internet comments actually convinced you to change your diet in such an inconvenient manner for no reward but moral superiority, you are not like the people you’re trying to convince. Abusers and cults love bomb because its more effective on a random sample of people
If one believes that the mother losing her newborn cries about it for days and that this is happening on an industrial scale that person will be very indignant about such a horrific injustice. That’s what convinced me, this is a real injustice and not being angry about it would be insincere
Convincing people to be ethical past the point of inconvenience requires insincerity, yes. The average person is a horrible human being