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As if the wildabeasts with Karen haircuts, the inability to change a tire, and the ability to complain makes these women somehow better than the men they complain about. Thunderthighs -away-
Sucks that your type has this character.
True, but it encompasses a lot of people.
I believe in women’s rights and equity and equality for all types of people. That said, I found someone who makes my life interesting. Unfortunately my life is interesting in the wrong ways like half the time. It’s aging me and I will die and early death. But that’s at least an interesting life. Otherwise she doesn’t do shit. No Job, no dishes, nothing. The only and most Important things she does is to teach the kids, do their workbooks together and pay the various bills. That’s stuff I can’t ever do because I go to work. While I’m happy that she does those things, I think she better find a job after the kids become more independent. That has literally been her excuse for not having a job for the past 15 years. So when the kids are finally doing well in school on their own, I will nag her like she nags me to get the garbage out. I will nag her to go get a job. That’s my plan and I’m sticking to it because hey, she should be doing something desirable right? LOL. They cut her stomach up to get our babies out. That’s probably the next excuse, a pretty good one, until I have my last breath. And to that I say: “Whatever babe, let me watch my show”.
Please don’t let stupid memes color your personal life weird. Whatever is going on with you and your SO is not a “societal” issue, it’s deeply personal and you’re both mature enough (I assume) to talk like reasonable people about it. Therapy may also help
As a man I have to agree, we’re fucking spoiled, but in the worst way possible. It’s not just that we allow men to be pigs and monsters, society expects it of us as kids, and if we don’t behave like it, we get called weird and gay and pushed aside as freaks. In my childhood it was very much be shit or be treated like shit. It really fucked my confidence and effectively ruined 90% of interactions with women, as I became to scared to even look one in the eyes, not wanting to be seen as a threat again for breathing the same air. As many men, it’s a miracle I found someone (or rather I was lucky enough to have a good friend that would introduce me) and thank fucking god, because I was slowly turning into an incel… Now I actually get to be a functional member of society and make someone happy.
It always triggers me a bit when I complain about me not having showered/shaved/groomed my self yet and a women tells me “you don’t have to, you’re a man”. I understand your daily struggle and injustice as a women and that you have it much worse, but what am I to do? Cut off my dick? Shrivel up and die? Maybe then I can become a vile enough rotting lump of shit to be a “REAL MAN”.
As opposed to modern women, who are sterling paragons that men would be crazy to not marry.
Woman are also not being properly socialized (although in my rant, I argue this is an intergenerational problem).
The problem is everyone is sexually frustrated and no one can find anyone they’re hot for who is available.
Previous generations handled this with singles bars and one night stands, but Millennials and Zoomers are so overworked and underpaid they just can’t be bothered to deal with other people’s bullshit, men or women.
Hence where all the lonely people come from, and the plummeting birth rate.
What rant? Can you link it? Sounds interesting.
Yeah, This one here.
Same post. Different comment.
Lmao at the crazies replying to you as if they couldn’t bear the idea that the argument is empty and could be flipped on its head.
… What argument?
Neither OP nor GameChild has made an argument. They’ve just said things.
“Cheese is delicious.”
“No, it’s not.”
“Damn, my argument was flipped on its head.”What are you talking about?
I can tell you’re not the brightest tool in the shed so I circled it for you.
What are you referring to?
Mainly referring to the growing disconnect between men becoming more socially conservative while women are becoming more socially liberal. There’s a growing demographic of men, at least in the USA, that are being welcomed into movements like MGTOW and Passport Bros, while women on the left are going on TV and social media talking about how they would rather run into a bear than a man, men are useless and have no place in society. Meanwhile what’s in it for men? Get married, get divorced, wife takes everything, takes the kids, takes the house, even if they are the ones initiating divorce most often.
Men are being raised to not be desirable? Which men? The upper 10% of men that 90% of women think they have a shot at marrying because they sleep with that 10% that has a rolladex of girls. Meanwhile those women often have 10 guys in the friend zone ready to go when they hit the wall at 30-40 and finally want to settle down with all their relationship trauma.
men are useless and have no place in society.
You are projecting your insecurities, my guy.
Like, you’re over here complaining about hypergamy at the same time that you’re whining about this very pedophilic “hit the wall” business. What’s wrong with being 35, exactly? Won’t you be 35 one day?
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not part of those groups. But I do see them growing and the issue is that those groups are the only ones courting those people.
Nothing wrong with 35. But people are most definitely influenced by relationships they’ve had. Running those numbers up doesn’t seem to be beneficial for anyone in terms of long term happiness.
And what do you mean projecting? I’ve seen clips of women on TV saying that. That’s not me saying it.
They might be growing. I feel like I haven’t heard about MGTOW in a while, but whatever. And, it is true the right wing apparatus is built to court men’s favor specifically, yeah. But that apparatus socializes them into pretty toxic people. When people complain about men, those conservative attitudes are what they’re talking about.
Unless you hang out in some strange circles. It’s obviously possible someone just really hates men, but letting that overshadow a real criticism is pretty god damn silly, in my opinion.
I’m just not sure what any of this has to do with women not being sterling marriage material.
This is what I mean about projection. You’ve got a chip on your shoulder about something, and so from a tweet with a fairly benign take on men as a culture, we get this insecure, jealous, whataboutism about careerless women being owed alimony, I guess.
I would agree that the left gives up too much social capital about men to the right.
I need to have a chip on my shoulder to think the original post could easily be written about both sexes? Does that mean you have a chip on your shoulder against men? I don’t follow your logic.
As opposed to modern women, who are sterling paragons that men would be crazy to not marry.
To be this spiteful about it? Kinda. You’re treating this like a tit-for-tat battle of the sexes for dominance in society, a contest to prove which one really is better, instead of, you know, a grievance somebody has with men as a culture.
Let’s imagine you’re right, that women aren’t great. Would this mean that the men who are socialized not to be desirable don’t have anything to do, then? Because both sexes are equally awful, neither one is obligated to improve?
Care to elaborate?
As a woman, this seems universal to me. Not a gendered issue. More a social issue.
I’m a cunt and i blame it on men.
[rant (with memes!)]
This is a particularly sore spot for me. I was an incel in the 1980s, long before the term incel was coined, and I was odd and a misfit, and fit nicely in this pile…
alleged link << I’m still new to Lemmy-linking.… and my inability to manage my own teenage libido figured into my suicidality then. Society’s failure to do better after another thirty-five years figures into my suicidality now.
To be fair, I suffer from major depression, largely tied into a childhood of neglect (I was a stereotypical latchkey kid) but then since the eighties, US society has required all adults to work full time, and everyone’s parents were exhausted and didn’t have much time or inclination to parent… and it’s only getting progressively worse. So I’m thinking this is intergenerational dysfunction and mental illness. Madness takes its toll.
One of the things that kept me going in my twenties was the hope things would get better for future generations, but instead the US opted for abstinence-only sex ed, which is still (in 2024) mandated in twenty six states, and pushes some really hard Christian stereotypes, e.g. that sex is transactional, men are obligate providers and women have no value other than their virginity and capacity to bear kids (in case you want to know what J. D. Vance’ rhetoric is all about.)
In contrast, only three states (the west coast) mandate comprehensive sex ed, which talks about contraception in a positive way, but it doesn’t (officially) talk about consent, boundaries, the patriarchy, the slut-shaming epidemic and so on. If you’re a teen, an incel, or know one, or otherwise want some serious sex and relating to other humans in a functional way info, check out Planned Parenthood, who has materials (and I believe they’re free). Despite what Jon Kyl said – #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement – Planned Parenthood spends more on their educational materials than they do on abortions, so go get some!
For me, I got lucky. At twenty five, I figured I might be able to recover my way into society, and joined a random AA meeting which had pamphlets about local meetings for other recovery and 12-step meetings. I found my way to CoDependents Anonymous and through a coincidence segued my way into the kink community. In Choke Chuck Palahniuk gets into a slightly different path which is getting into the Sex and Love Addicts community, where peers are slightly too eager to fall off the wagon with each other. This is as dysfunctional as hate-fucking, but hey, we are already truly gone fishing crazy in a society that is also dysfunctional.
Even in the early 1990s, when we were still just trading copypasta on Usenet and Wikipedia was still a WiP, it was clear then it was a bad idea to leave all our young men sexually frustrated, pretend like it’s not a problem and then try to teach them integral calculus. It wasn’t the era of suicide terrorists (lonely, angry young men in the Middle East) and it wasn’t yet the age of rampage shooters (lonely, angry young men in the US). But we did have a run of spree killers, and Ted Kaczynski, Timothy McVeigh, and Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Lonely and sexually frustrated to the last.
To be fair, the US Armed Forces really likes lonely, angry sexually frustrated young men. This is their primary tap for recruits, and until recently, we’ve been fighting the International War on Terror.
And an awful lot of them, especially those who never figure out how to relate to
womenanyone trickle their way into the many alt-right factions, not just incels but the alpha male community, the seduction community, gamergaters, MGTOW, the manosphere, militias, 4Chan/b and so on. Piles and piles of guys (and some gals) who are losers, and they know it. In a shit world that dealt them a shit hand, and do a sine-wave dance between wanting to fade out and wanting to watch the world burn. I know the steps to this jig.Connected ones go into law enforcement.
Essentially, US culture has created this giant pool of Immorten Joe’s war boys, all looking to be witnessed all shiny and chrome into Valhalla. And they are all voting for Trump in 2024 and are eager to join Röhm’s Sturmabteilung as soon as a recruiter tells them to stand back and stand by.
I don’t know what the solution is, and I’ve put a lot of thought into it. The US hates its teens. It seems to be a fixed action pattern (an instinct) to lock our adolescent women up and to evict our adolescent men, once they respectively start showing signs of puberty. I wonder if it’s related to those gorilla species that evict their adolescent females during their first estrus, but then welcome strange females.
Regardless, it’s much the way our administrators side with bullies over their victims when they can (an affect of dominance hierarchy, the thing that drives us to worship athletes and sports stars). In my old age, I wonder if we’re just driven to rationalize obeying instincts rather than recognizing that an advance society sometimes requires non-intuitive solutions.
We need to find a way to actually respect our teens while they’re still in that threshold between cute kid and responsible adult. Just as we need to find a way to actually respect folks that are not simultaneously white, Christian, male and rich enough to have a stock portfolio. If we don’t, it’ll kill us.
In the meantime, Millennials are having few kids, and Zoomers, fewer still. After the anti-abortion thing, they’re just not even bothering to date, and feel undriven to do so since there’s little to no hope for the future.
During the German Reich, when the population rate imploded, they just rounded up pretty young German women who fit the master race mold and required them to serve in the Leibensborn program, as breeding slaves for the Schutzstaffel what inspired Margaret Atwood’s handmaid program in A Handmaid’s Tale. And considering J. D. Vance’s obsession about childless women whether teachers or cat-ladies, this sounds like a thing he’d be happy to spearhead once the Project 2025 agenda sends the US into one-party autocracy.
I suspect there is some undiscovered sociological magic we might be able to use to change the way we interact with power hierarchy and in the meantime give our teens more guidance and less constraint. But if we don’t, it’s a problem that will resolve itself within the next century (more or less). In the meantime, when see Eleanor Rigby or Father McKensie lost and forgotten in their solitude, a check in and a friendly pint (or ice cream cone) might be in order.
[/rant]
Oh man, good rant! My comprehension lost track about 1/3 of the way down just past the Choke reference, but I identified with a lot of it and I frequently think of the mentally ill koala comic in my daily life.
The sad truth I’ve found though is that the mentally ill koala comics context is what is used to automatically dismiss that final Twitter reference. -and that’s why mental illness has a stigma. People use it as an excuse to invalidate other people.
I can’t, so I asked Gee Pee Tea to. Howd it do?
Society’s failure to support teens, especially those struggling with loneliness and sexual frustration, has only made things worse over the decades. Abstinence-only sex ed and a culture that neglects young people have contributed to this mess, creating a cycle where exhausted parents can’t provide the guidance teens desperately need.
Lonely, angry young men are often funneled into harmful ideologies or destructive paths. The future looks bleak, with fewer people having kids and growing fears that political movements could exploit this desperation. It’s crucial to find better ways to respect and guide youth before things spiral even further.
It’s pressure on the workforce to over exert that has cost us parents. It’s right-wing ideology that gives us AO education programs, and allow them to focus on teaching that ideology, rather than informing about sex, love and intimacy.
I’m not a psychologist or sociologist, so I am guessing (hypothesizing) that authorities over pubescent adolescents responding to incidents of sexual expression (including flirting, courting, sexting, not just making out † ) has more to do with instincts than what would best serve the teens or the community. But this is consistent with dominance hierarchy and the behavior of other social primates.
Ass I said, I don’t have a societal solution, but we can act locally by acknowledging that everyone, from our disregarded teens to untrained adults are all commonly products of a dysfunctional system that raised dysfunctional kids who are now dysfunctional adults. So yes, cut everyone some slack, including yourself.
† or K-to-9 kids for that matter, who are prone to interest and experimentation, which parents and guardians respond to by freaking out and punishing those kids who are involved.
Quite an oversimplification, but it hit some of the high points. It’s a good little opinion piece, and worth the time, I think.
Huh, so in essence boys and girls are raised to the same outcome.
As a bisexual guy, this is exactly why I mostly dated women.
Hey! Bi cis male here, the few men I seem to go on dates with always seem to have some hangup. I’m not gay enough, I’m married to a women, hates vegans, hates trans people. It’s really exhausting to the point that first dates feel like I’m interviewing them.
It’s really exhausting to the point that first dates feel like I’m interviewing them.
If it’s a first date, you are interviewing them. I’m sorry it feels exhausting for you though.
I get what you mean but it shouldn’t feel like that. I shouldn’t be searching for something they might hate me over.
I agree, it shouldn’t feel like that. As someone who is bi and queer though, on top of all the normal trials and tribulations of dating there’s also a long list of people who don’t think I have the right to exist. I’d rather find out they’re a hate filled asshole as soon as possible so I can move on with my life. At this stage I won’t meet someone face to face unless we’ve chatted extensively online already. Even though I’m dooming hard I do still hope you find someone 😊
Yeah, when I met my wife the first time it was the opposite of exhausting. I felt like I could keep talking all night.
Dude same. It was really easy to date before 2016. First date with my wife we kept talking until the bar closed.
Now you have to look into your meeting spot make sure nothing problematic happened there. I was lucky that my enbyfriend friend was in the music scene when I was because I already knew a lot about them before our relationship started.
Now if someone is interested in me. I’m always skeptical. I recently got asked to help this straight lady cheat on her husband because she wanted to create strife for a divorce. Like who TF what’s to be involved with that stress?
you mean to tell me that most people don’t believe the majority of the things you do? That’s weird.
As a straight man I could say similar things about most of the women I’ve dated. It’s not a men problem or a women problem, it’s just how dating is. Nobody’s perfect and it’s hard to find someone that fits with you.
You’re married, go on dates, then complain people are mad that you’re married… How many times were you dropped on your head as a kid exactly?
Men are hot, but I’m more pessimistic about finding a guy I’d want a relationship with than finding a girl. As a transfem, I’d have an easier time finding a guy, but a majority would probably be abusive or chasers. There might be fewer women, but it’d be safer(women are more likely to be progressive) and they’d be more into me as a person. It’d be harder to hookup, but easier to find a gf than bf.
Even transmascs would be better than cis dudes because they’re almost certainly not bigoted chasers that were raised to see women as goals instead of people.
My wife would agree I suspect. She’s transfem, and basically considered herself a lesbian until she met me.
As a bisexual guy, this is not at all my experience with non-straight men. They seem to be mostly cool and well socialized.
Wow! Sample size: 1. Sure showed them, buddy.
Clearly not bi, btw, you’re a misandrist. Congratulations 🎉!
I’ve never seen someone so pissed off and offended over not getting any bussy lmao
I’m not gonna be the “not all men” guy because this person does have a point,
But I will say, if all you look for is negatives, that’s all you’re gonna find.
Not being desirable can also solely be a lack of positives.
Ah yes, you look at the entirety of the male population, say “there’s no positives”, and still think you have a point 😂😂😂.
It’s like you can’t even wrap your own head around the sheer amount of misandry oozing from your mouth.
That wasn’t my point. Good job failing at reading comprehension.
“… in a way that makes them
desirable asactual adults.”FTFY.
People in general, gender unrelated, IMHO
Yep. Kinda.
Im hitting 40 and those memes about being thankful for not being a part of the whole dating app weirdness is real. My two friends who are single and my age are sick of dating anyone under 35.
This is such a great way to articulate the issue. The conversation mostly revolves around individuals (“men are bad”). This is one of the few rimes that men are talked in a way that acknowledges the system at play, that they are a product of an environment and society that has shaped them a certain way.
I’ve lost the podcast source that talked about “there is no good way to be a man currently”. Even for someone who wants to be a better man, there aren’t role models or celebrations of " good manliness". There’s no positive road map, only a list of “don’ts” and stereotypes to avoid.
We, as a society, are still trapped within the “feminist revolution”, there’s fighting going on and no new normal emerged.
Both sides are ripped apart by two often contradicting sets of expectations, the traditional role and the progressive role.
What makes it so hard for a lot of men is, that it’s a willful surrender of privileges. Men lost a ton of privileges over the last decades and it takes a bit of reflection to understand that these privileges were never legitimate in the first place. Instead, they frame women’s rights as weakness, because it directly contradicts their narrative of a strong man.
And that also reflects on women, to put it extremely bluntly, he’s expected to pay for dinner, but she still wants equal pay. It will take decades to sort all of that out.
What makes it so hard for a lot of men is, that it’s a willful surrender of privileges. Men lost a ton of privileges over the last decades and it takes a bit of reflection to understand that these privileges were never legitimate in the first place. Instead, they frame women’s rights as weakness, because it directly contradicts their narrative of a strong man.
the important distinction here is that these privileges were the reason that men did what they did. Without them now men don’t really have an overall driving force through life. Without the expectation of “being a strong man” they literally have nothing to live for in society.
Being a good human being is an option for everyone.
And I know this is from a kids cartoon, but Uncle Iroh from Airbender embodies benevolent masculinity pretty well. If we want children and young men to be socialized better, a good place to start is with our media to depicting more characters like that.What?? So when you were a kid ,you just wanted to be a “strong man” when you grew up??
there was nothing i wanted to be when i was growing up. I got the question of “what do you want to do” but there isn’t exactly a good answer to that question and nobody seemed to ever really care either. Things are more focused on education and not being an asshole individually, as opposed to be a socially good person who respects other people.
It should be no wonder that people raised like this turn to figures like andrew tate looking for some semblance of something to focus on.
the reason why strong man is quoted is because if you don’t grow up to be a strong person, as a man or a woman, or whatever in between, you fucking die.
That’s what the post above mine meant by there not being a positive manliness.
Progressive manliness is described as a substraction from the old ideal. We simply have not yet formed a positive, progressive male identity.
yeah, we need to work towards building something that solves this problem sooner rather than later, if you’re a parent now, you should be figuring this out now, and if you want to be a parent, figure it out before you have children.
It sucks. As a dude, I feel it’s almost impossible to balance being confident and approaching women you don’t know and also not being a creep or bothering them. I’m not the best but not the worst when it comes to looks, I have many friends of different genders (shoutout to my enby fellows who have to deal with this mess and also discrimination) and I’m confident in most things I do aside from dating. It’s gotten to the point I just won’t ask women out due to anxiety over coming across as a creep or bothering them, and instead endure loneliness. Which is not great, but it is what it is.
I like it
At least that means the routes men take will be more unique
Or they’ll all fall down the Andrew “Sex Trafficker” Tate pipeline instead.
He’s not special. Run of the mill pimp.
I didn’t say he was special, just that his type has an outsized influence on young men.
That’s correct. Please accept my apology if it seemed I was suggesting otherwise.
All good, I did misinterprete what you were trying to add :)
im sorry sex trafficking isn’t special?
Ugh, in no way am I trying to suggest this is a good man doing acceptable things. I’m trying to suggest he is a bad man doing exploitive things AND that there are many like him that perhaps are less skillful with social media.
yeah, and i don’t think that makes it or him “normal” either. He’s an exceptionally terrible human being. That has managed to be the kingpin of an entire attention economy for years now.
In some regards he is special That’s why Romania is putting him through the ringer, it’s why the extradition might actually happen.
Ok fine, he’s a special pimp.
therapy is a good place to start. men need to want to improve themselves. many don’t. I find this issue to be more prevalent among older generations who are extremely resistant to therapy.
The best example of good manliness in media I can think of is Bandit from Bluey.
The options are pretty slim if a cartoon dog from a children’s show is humanity’s best example of being a good man.
Uncle Iroh is another one
Tim Walz seems to do it right.
And the speech professor
Idk, I think Aragorn is a great example. As is Samwise.
Even for someone who wants to be a better man, there aren’t role models or celebrations of " good manliness". There’s no positive road map, only a list of “don’ts” and stereotypes to avoid.
Bluey.
bluey is great, but it’s only one example in a sea of no ships. It’s also aussie, so it’s not even super culturally relevant to most of the west, it’s also focused at really young children.
Beyond young children you have shows like, full house, which is literally fucking ancient.
This is hilarious because Bluey is a girl
I meant the father from Bluey. What’s his name? Bandit?
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
What would you expect from a “role model”? Just a person who does good for its own sake? Doing so would be something that’s not publicized, so it’s hard to show off good behavior.
people that are the stereotypical mr rogers of the real world. We really do just need more people that are such good people that just they instill goodness in others on a fundamental level. That and people willing to spend time educating others.
if you aren’t a stereo-typically perfect individual, that’s fine, you almost certainly have something useful that you can teach someone young that’s around you.
Lmao at all these people saying “men bad” in a fanciful way and arguing that they still have a point because of their misandry.
I really wish you would all suffer the consequences of your sexism, lose a job here or there, maybe get divorced because you sure deserve it for being such pieces of toxic shit.
Men are bad at cleaning => sexist
Men are not taught as children to clean => not sexist
Men can’t emotionally regulate => sexist
Men are not socialized to emotionally regulate => not sexist
Women can’t change a tire => sexist
Women aren’t taught to change a tire => not sexist
Women are emotional => sexist
Women are taught to share their emotions => not sexist
There’s a big difference between making a statement about society and making a statement about humanity.
I would say intent really matters because a lot of times when people sort of step away from the issue in that way, it’s really just a thinly veiled way of espousing their beliefs without taking any blowback.
That I can certainly agree with, I guess I made that with the implicit assumption that they are made in good faith.
Every single sentence you say that starts with “Men…” is sexist. Get that in your damn head. It doesn’t matter what you say after that, the generalisation is sexist as fuck. Now go learn something or gtfo.
Could you elaborate on why you feel one or more of those statements is harmful? These sorts of statements were very helpful to me growing up, it was pivoting in realizing there wasnt something wrong with me, but rather i just needed to seek some extra instruction. Seems like the one on emotional regulation might be very helpful to you as well, as it seems to be getting in your way to communicate.
I’ll take a shot:
The word “Karen” has taken root in the last decade or so, describing a certain type of (generally female) personality. But why?
Well, that would likely be because it was a very popular name within a certain generation that also displays a fairly common set of behaviour among female members. The epitome of that behavior is one of privilege combined with victimhood.
But "Karen " isn’t a person, it’s a behavior model, and those “Karen’s” had kids (often plenty of them), and created subsequent generations that often learned similar behaviour.
These same people then twist concepts of feminism - which should mean equality - to mean superiority by:
-
Expecting been to be in touch with their partner’s feelings, but making the latter take precedent.
-
Expecting men to take on more traditionally “pink” work (cooking, cleaning, gardening etc) but not being involved in “blue” work (repairs, mowing the lawn, garbage, etc)
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Expecting men to spend more time involved with the children but also expecting them to do all that other stuff that takes up time, while simultaneously paying less attention to they kids themselves (stuck to a phone with kids stuck to a screen)
–
This can include stuff like:
Getting upset because of stuff like “you haven’t taken me out to dinner in a long time” while ignoring the part where that’s because the credit card hasn’t been paid off since that “girls retreat” a month ago that “I totally needed and deserved”. Any argument to the contrary is not taking into consideration [female]'s feelings, worth, and hard work.
Killing a discussion about [male]'s worth and feelings with “well you did/do X and that makes me feel terrible” (even if X occured weeks/months/years ago, and never mind if things go beyond feelings and into domestic violence. A man is expected to take it and NEVER raise a hand, even in defence.
Equality has been killed by “if you can’t handle me at my worst, you don’t deserve me at my best”.
We don’t just see this reflected in relationships. Look at the crazies who will scream their entitlement at wait staff, or even police. Notice that the counter arguments become increasingly “I [don’t] deserve this treatment” while ignoring the behaviour leading to it. Girls literally choose not to learn cooking, sewing etc because they don’t want to be pigeon-holed into “traditional roles”
So we end up with people like this, whose entire outlook on life is based on what they believe they deserve, with nothing to say how they should act, and everything is always somebody else’s fault. Men just fall into one of those “somebody else” categories.
And boys that are raised under these same household? They see their fathers go from proud to beaten-down and often broke after divorce etc. Is it a wonder that many are now growing up to not want relationships or to start a family of their own? It’s terrifying.
Now I’m not going to say that this is all women. I’ve met great women and an proud to be friends with many who are intelligent, self-sufficient, and (hopefully) absent of most of the bullshit above. However, there are an increasing - and rather frightening - number who appear to subscribe to the above, attempting to find a man who “deserves” them (i.e be perfect) without looking at what they bring to the table other than a nice TikTok/Insta profile.
The reality is, a good relationship is a combination of the foundation you start with, what you put in, and sometimes a bit of luck. You need concrete and clean water on solid ground to start. That doesn’t work if one person is contributing just sand or water.
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It’s easy, any person claiming to know more about the entirety of the population of any group, no matter if it’s men, women, or cardboard boxes, is wrong. This is what you’re doing. It pisses me off that you think biological differences define people for who they are, which is essentially what you’re doing by lumping “men” into the “rapists” category, just because you claim it’s too much effort to differentiate.
You don’t seem to be reading my comments, or perhaps you are conflating them with someone elses?
Firstly, I asked why the statements that I said are not sexist are harmful, I don’t think your statement answers that.
Second, the whole point of my initial post and the original post here, is that it isn’t biological differences, it’s social differences about how you are raised, how you were taught. Within a western context we all were sent to the same schools, the same playground experiences, the same daycares. Even if an individual escapes the socialization of one of these vectors, they are still exposed to all the others. that’s what’s under critique, not inherent truths about humanity. It’s important to introspect on these issues and seek to unlearn the parts that are harmful.
I also never even mentioned the word rapists in any of my comments, that seems like an entirely separate conversation entirely.
The concept that generalising statements are still applicable, even if they are not correct for every single person in the generalised group, is a bit complex, but if you sit down and think hard about it you might get it.
even if they are not correct for every single person in the generalised group
That’s your problem, you’re willing to lump everyone together. I can also go around looking at every minutia and flaw I can find from different people and lumping them all together under the “Women” umbrella, but I don’t because I’m not fucking stupid. Tell me again the percentage of the male population that does each and every single different thing you claim all men do? That’s right, it’s a fraction of a percentage. Most men are good. And yet “all men” enter your generalisation.
Caught me, I’m a self-hating man, definitely not a guy who is upset about societal standards applied to men giving us fucked tools for dealing with society in a civil manner.
The sheer gall of speaking about an entire half of the global population and generalising about them tells me enough about you. You don’t need to hide beneath a veneer of sarcasm and imply you actually have a point when you just want to diss people like you keep doing.
