A recent study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reveals that across all political and social groups in the United States, there is a strong preference against living near AR-15 rifle owners and neighbors who store guns outside of locked safes. This surprising consensus suggests that when it comes to immediate living environments, Americans’ views on gun control may be less divided than the polarized national debate suggests.
The research was conducted against a backdrop of increasing gun violence and polarization on gun policy in the United States. The United States has over 350 million civilian firearms and gun-related incidents, including accidents and mass shootings, have become a leading cause of death in the country. Despite political divides, the new study aimed to explore whether there’s common ground among Americans in their immediate living environments, focusing on neighborhood preferences related to gun ownership and storage.
the gun ownership attribute had three levels: no gun ownership, owning a pistol, and owning an AR-15,
This study design is bad, and they should feel bad. If they’re going to claim that people are afraid of AR-15s, they should compare it apples-to-apples with other rifles, or just ask about rifles generally, like they did with pistols.
Furthermore, any study asking opinion questions for what should be data-driven decisions are misleading at best and harmful at worst. If your concern is safety in communities, you should study actual safety, not feelings. It appears they want to make people feel safe, while not necessarily increasing safety.
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Fair enough for a general survey question. However, the point about how policy decisions shouldn’t be based on opinion/anecdote is still valid (at least in the case of gun control).
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I could understand the argument for factoring people’s feelings into policy in some cases, but let’s take this study as an example.
Handguns are responsible for far more harm than AR-15s, but this study shows people “fear” AR-15s more. A policy that is based on these findings and not empirical data may attempt to reduce gun violence by addressing AR-15 ownership. Thereby not having a major effect on reducing actual gun violence.
A policy focusing on reducing handgun ownership would be much more effective at reducing gun violence, despite people not fearing them as much.
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I think you’re confusing me with other commentors. I haven’t suggested this research in particular is being actively used to support policy decisions. Nor have I suggested this research is advocating for policy.
In my initial comment I simply said policy in general (at least with gun control) shouldn’t be based on people’s feelings/anecdotes.
I think this study asked a very interesting question, and I find the results to be very interesting. I don’t really have any issues with this research by itself.
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How people feel is important to know because it will influence how a change needs to be presented.
In this example: A lot of oeople feel safer owning guns, science show they’re wrong and it actually decreases their safety, in order to be able to change things in a way that people will accept it that perception needs to be changed.
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Everyone cool with gun rights until you ask if someone they know should have access to guns with little regulation. On the abstract, preserving rights sound good. But when you stop to think of the types of people you know/have met/know about, restricting gun rights feels a bit more logical.
Because there is no actual need for such a weapon. Nobody outside the military needs a spraynpray gun. Yeah they look sexy to some, i get that, but i can do as much “damage” more accurately with my plainjane hunting rifle.
How in the world is an AR a spray n pray gun? Barrels shorter than 16" require a tax stamp and approval. An AR can be built to be pretty damn accurate. Do you just not like that it’s semi auto?
Idk why people go after the AR platform when you can go buy a Barrett .50 cal anti materiel rifle in 49 states, and there’s plenty of less scary shaped semi auto rifles out there.
They go after this platform, because it’s a favorite of mass shooters. You know this.
Toyota Camrys are also a favorite of car crashers, never you mind that they’re one of the most owned cars, correlation=causation dammit!
And wouldnt you know it, BECAUSE cars can do a shitload of damage in the wrong hands, they require years of training and certification to be able to legally operate.
I didn’t have to do years of training. I took a 2 week driver’s ed course and took a test. Had my provisional as soon as I turned 15.
But on the other side to get a hunting license when I was a kid I had to do a state run hunter safety class to learn about gun safety.
I dont know the Details for the States, but for Canada, the first Test you pass gets you a Learners, in which you arent allowed to drive without a full licence Driver present, and you’re only allowed to take your restricted New Driver’s license after a year of having an L and not getting any tickets, and then a year after that you can finally get an unrestricted license. Multiple years. But I guess if the states is stupid with itd guns, it’d make sense its stupid with its cars too
We let any idiot with a pulse drive because in most of rural America you’d starve to death without a car
I have an AR-15. It’s usually in it’s case. (I don’t have children.) I know plenty of people that have AR-15s, and a few weirdos that prefer AKs (but they’re finally seeing the light now that cheap Russian ammo isn’t cheap at all any more). It’s just such a non-issue for me. My biggest issue is that I would prefer that the people I’m around are safe, as in, have good muzzle awareness, excellent trigger discipline, etc. But the gun itself? I’m fine with AR-15s.
If they have something like an L85A1, anything by KelTec, or an AK, I know that they have deeply suspect judgement, and can not be trusted in any matters of taste.
anything by keltec
You say that, but let’s be honest: keltec is a mullet company. They make an array of monotonous pocket pistols, and freaky shit. Nothing in between. You know anybody who has a fun keltec is down for a good time.
I feel like KelTec’s motto should be, “All The Cocaine In The US Comes Through Florida”.
A gun company by Florida Man, for Florida Man.
Was always fun to me as a Russian that, if you’re not in a military, you’ll have easier time to get your hands on an AK in America rather than Russia itself :D
But that’s for the better - gun ownership is cancer, in my opinion.
Good news then! In Russia, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, and the rights of the criminally accused are also banned!
Do guns help Americans get their freedoms? Is this country a beacon of hope? Isn’t the US slowly following Russia’s guidebooks on slowly stripping freedoms away?
For as long as you are scattered and divided, no gun is gonna help you change the game of politics. If you are united, you can overthrow your government without a single bullet.
Most of European countries, for example, have much stricter gun control. And if there’s a place of democracy, Europe is the destination to watch.
Do guns help Americans get their freedoms?
They sure as fuck did, yeah! :D Just like they’re helping Ukranians keep their country right now. They’re certainly helping the rebels in Myanmar.
Is this country a beacon of hope?
It depends on who you ask. At the moment, people still tend to choose the US over pretty much any other country when they’re trying to emigrate and they have a real choice. So for people outside the US? Probably. For people inside the US? I think that we can, and should, do better.
Isn’t the US slowly following Russia’s guidebooks on slowly stripping freedoms away?
Unfortunately, yes. And the people need to resist that.
If you are united, you can overthrow your government without a single bullet.
That’s a nice theory but it rests on two presuppositions. First, it assumes that the US would ever be united and speak with one voice. Given how many people here identify with their oppressors rather than their fellow oppressed, that seems extremely unlikely. (Look at the number of people willing to vote for Trump three times now.) Second, it rests on the idea that governance requires the consent of the governed, and, well, I’m pretty sure that’s not the case.
On the other hand, armed groups of civilians that are acting peacefully tend to get the kid glove treatment from cops. Cops tend to want to have the advantage of numbers and the ability to use force before they instigate conflict; when they don’t have it, they suddenly remember how to de-escalate. So far, that’s mostly been used by the right, but the left is finally starting to pick up on that shit, which terrifies the chuds. Why do you think that you’ve seen armed groups of civilians protecting drag queens at story time, or protecting people trying to hand out food to the homeless?
And if there’s a place of democracy, Europe is the destination to watch.
I note that the far-right is making significant inroads into European politics.
That’s a fair answer, I appreciate the depth you went into.
I think US is the center of immigration due to high economic potential first and foremost. Building careers in the richest country in the world sounds like an attractive option. Especially for young people who consider burdens like healthcare and home ownership to be less significant. Barely so for democracy outside of proclaimed “land of the free”. But I may be wrong.
If US will not speak with one voice, no amount of arms is gonna help. And I’d much rather live in a country where people don’t have access to guns than in a country where left and right are pointing muzzles at each other (not to mention American left and right are just different sorts of right to the outside world, but that’s a story for another day).
On far-right in Europe - true on your side.
I think you’re right about the perceptions of economic freedoms, yeah. Which is kinda wild, given that most countries in the EU fare much better overall in cost-of-living versus salaries. So it’s like playing roulette; they’re betting that they can win big, instead of being just another chump that loses money to the house.
And, TBH, I think that if the US had the same kind of criminal justice reform and social safety networks that you see in most of the EU (and I’m not including Great Britain in this; they really suck in a lot of ways, which is intentional on the part of UK conservatives), I think that you’d see a lot less violent crime in general, and a definitely lower murder rate.
And I’d much rather live in a country where people don’t have access to guns than in a country where left and right are pointing muzzles at each other
I don’t know where you live. But you gotta understand a couple of things about the US. First, the US is big. All of Europe–including Russia–is 3.9M square miles. The continental US (not including Hawai’i and Alaska) is 3.1M square miles. All of Europe has a population of 745M people, and all of the US has a population of about 335M. So the US is a very large country, and statistically it’s very sparsely populated. I live in a semi-rural area; if shit happens, it’s going to take emergency services–cops, fire department, ambulance, whatever–a minimum of 20 minutes to show up. But in the US, the cops have no legal obligation to protect you in any way; there is no criminal or civil liability if any police officer or agency refuses to do their job. On top of that, cops are far, far more likely than not to be on the political right.
So what does this mean?
You need to be able and willing to protect yourself, and take care of yourself, because the government here can’t, and won’t. Especially if you aren’t white and christian.
You can say, “I don’t want to live in a society that’s armed”, but that’s a very privileged stance to take, given that most of the people in the US have to be ready to fend for themselves, and hope that the veneer of civility doesn’t fail.
I’m from, well, Russia :D With half the population over almost double the area, and quite some threats, too.
And yeah, we have guns banned here.
Not that we don’t have issue with police/other emergency services arriving to remote areas in time, nor are we a thriving peaceful nice democracy, but I certainly don’t expect less gun control to improve the situation here - and I don’t think it’s optimal for the US, either.
Individually, you may benefit from holding a gun. But collectively, there will be plenty of people putting those guns to a bad use, or just overreact in self-defense.
Funny, in modern countries we just think you’re all fucking cowards no matter what
I’m a leftist Canadian trade unionist who owns guns. Please explain what part of this makes me a coward.
Why?
People who have guns -
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Hunters ✅
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Soldiers ✅
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Farmers ✅
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Cowards who are protecting themselves from -
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Other cowards
I had a guy pull a knife on me in the walmart parking lot, apr 2020. He decided to leave instead of stab me, and would you like to know why? Because in your summation “I’m a coward” who decided that instead of being stabbed I would reach for my firearm. Call me a coward all you want but I got my groceries and he probably found some more courageous victim, I’ll call that a wash.
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… gun-related incidents, including accidents and mass shootings, have become a leading cause of death in the country.
What? Not even close.
Underlying Cause of Death, 2018-2022, Single Race Results (Persons aged 1-19)
#1 - Firearmhttps://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D158;jsessionid=E9C7B23A4CABE7AA0CDEFB26390B
Link does not work
PS: Are you including suicides? If so, than maybe it is possible in the 1-19 age group you selected but incredibly misleading and still untrue in general population.
PS2: You can link to the data by clicking save in the top right.
Hey we’re here to move the goalposts, where do you want them?
On the whole population where they belong instead of a carefully selected subset.
Yeah, fuck those kids. They went out and bought those weapons! They can kill themselves if they want!
I agree, we need to be able to threaten everyone we don’t like with execution!
steal something? DEATH SENTENCE. vandalize something? DEATH SENTENCE. made me mad? YUP THAT’S A DOUBLE DEATH SENTENCE.
an armed society is a polite society, because I can just shoot you!
/s. if anyone wasn’t able to tell
Hell yeah! That’s why I keep a vial of anthrax on me at all times. Never know when you might need it.
You forgot to mention, pull into my driveway on accident, DEATH SENTENCE, served immediately. I need all citizens of the US to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner to feel safe.
Iirc that dataset does include suicides and accidental discharges.
If your suburban/urban neighbor knows what model of gun you have and you aren’t hunting/shooting buddies then you’re doing something horribly wrong and are definitely a scary neighbor regardless of what type of gun it is.
This is a more of a study on the public’s opinion of this model gun. It gets a bad rap in media, so people who don’t know anything else about it don’t want anything to do with it.
Until they need somebody with one…
This is why I use the AR-10, it’s much safer, it’s 5 AR’s fewer than the AR-15
The bigger bullet means it’s easier to avoid.
So a good bit cheaper, too, then?
I’d be more concerned about a neighbor wearing a MAGA hat and flying a Trump 2024 flag than someone quietly owning an AR-15.
But that’s because I’m aware of the statistics.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
“Handguns are the most common weapon type used in mass shootings in the United States, with a total of 166 different handguns being used in 116 incidents between 1982 and December 2023. These figures are calculated from a total of 149 reported cases over this period, meaning handguns are involved in about 78 percent of mass shootings.”
Except the stats (art and science)
don’t mention thatin many of the mass shootings, an AR-15 assault rifle was commonly used. Highly lethal, designed to kill as many people as possible in a short amount of time.My mistake, they do mention it.
I just came here to say I don’t understand this because while these guns are by and large used in mass shootings, handgunss cause far more death.
Handguns are less accurate, and are used far less for hunting or other sport (at least compared to rifles), partially due to their sheer inaccuracy. They are way more likely to be used in a murder, and people are way less likely to take the time to lock them up properly because they want them “at hand.”
I’m way more likely to be shot by some dumbfuck with a handgun than be caught up in a mass shooting.
Unpopular opinion: ban handguns
Canadians have a lot of guns, for hunting and for fun. Most of them are long, though, because handguns are heavily regulated and a bit of a hassle so pretty much just a firing range thing. We don’t have a lot of gun deaths compared to the USA, and it’s not just culture. It’s the handguns.
As a matter of fact, most progressive policies have majority support in the US. The system is deliberately designed to prevent the will of the majority from being enacted.
That’s a feature, not a bug. The point is you want to protect rights fro the tyranny of the majority.
Oh yes we need to protect the rights of (checks notes) religious people to oppress us all.
Yup definitely in danger of a tyranny of the majority.
Edit, looking down thread you’re not here in good faith. You say we can’t have progressive ideas with broad support because tyranny of the majority but you use those very same ideas as examples of things that might be crushed by a tyranny of the majority. Let’s be real the stuff we can’t vote out because of this system is the right of rich white people to oppress minorities. The right of police to execute people. The right of corporations to abuse their workers. No one in the majority is out there cheering the arrest of protestors or the implementation of Christian Sharia law.
You don’t believe that I’m here in good faith because I believe in individual liberties…?
That’s certainly a take.
But you don’t. Based on what you’ve said you favor the rights of capitalists and corporations over individuals.
The hilarious part of this is that statistically, many Americans have AR-15s and other rifles sitting somewhere within a few hundred yards of them. There are countless millions of them.
This would be like polling people about their fears surrounding theoretical concealed weapons when, statistically, they just got home from the grocery store or gas station and there were probably 10 people there carrying guns without incident, and they just didn’t know about it.
I may be unaware of the rats living in a small nest inside of a drainspout near me, but that still doesn’t mean rats are “okay” or “harmless”. So this isn’t quite a gotcha about their normality.
The comments couldn’t get more American if it was a competition on making American commentary.
I understand both side of the argument, but at the same time I get neither. American cultural identity in relation to firearms is unique in the Western world. Guns have transcended rights and wrongs. People hunt. People use guns recreationally. People cosplay warriors. Some people use guns for bad reasons. Most people never cause the slightest harm. But in any event, culturally, guns occupy a political position not usually seen in the first world.
I’m not even sure what I am trying to say? I do know this, the debate will never end because the two different positions are completely contradictory and all compromise is effectively lost. I’d be interested in hearing a solution that both sides could live with. It would be a doozy.
You’ve succinctly defined the problem, and the only solution is a cultural shift away from the norm. Hopefully that shift will be peaceful, which will most likely only happen if it’s gradual.
the only solution is a cultural shift
The culture is always shifting. I would not say it has shifted in the direction of safety. On the one hand, you have horders who believe its their civil right to stuff their house with tank shells and miniguns and you can’t tell them what to do. On the other, you’ve got police who will start firing blindly in all directions when an acorn drops, because they’re so terrified of anyone else owning a gun.
Together, these seem to suggest a cultural shift towards “You’re allowed to own a gun but if you make me scared I’m allowed to shoot you” as a middle ground.
I don’t know what’s more lame, the gun debate or the Kendrick vs Drake beef.
That sounds like a “you” problem rather than any kind substantial critique of either guns or silly feuds.
😘 yes Sir!
The aversion to AR-15 owners was stronger than the aversion to owners of other types of firearms (pistols). When given a choice, the probability that a respondent would prefer to live near someone who owned an AR-15 plummeted by over 20 percentage points, indicating a strong societal preference against this type of gun ownership.
Which, as usual, goes a long way towards illustrating how effective propaganda and manipulation of people’s opinions can be. Not just on this specific topic either, but in this case I guess that’s what we’re talking about. Despite its scientific dressings, what this study is exploring isn’t actually any mechanical factor, it is measuring people’s perceptions which are not guaranteed to be reflected by reality. (And again, this is true of many other topics as well…)
The AR-15 platform does the same damn thing and shoots the same damn bullet in the same damn way as numerous other firearms, and yet just the name itself has a bad rap from being incessantly repeated in the news and social media.
Here’s this old chestnut. It’s still true.
Why’s the one on top “scarier?”
Tl;dr: Own, store, and handle your gun responsibly. Don’t be a paranoid loon. Don’t believe in whatever boogeyman Fox News is pushing this week. Don’t hyperventilate about fictional distinctions.
Partly because the AR-15 is lighter than the Mini 14, is easier to reload, and is generally designed to meet the modern needs of armies killin’ humans better. Then there’s the incessant marketing, the huge number of manufacturers at multiple price points (the Mini 14 being a Ruger exclusive), the aftermarket of optics and tacticool accessories, and the general cultural impact. How many Mini 14s have actually been involved in mass shootings and gun-nerd intimidation exercises? It’s almost like the least stable assholes are interested in a “badass” gun.
But okay, fine. There’s a not-insignificant amount of truth to the graphic. By all means, the gun nerds should put it everywhere and inform the previously ignorant public. I don’t think the result will be to convince people the AR-15 is actually useful, just that the Mini-14 is equally unnecessary as a civilian tool or hunting rifle, and they shouldn’t assume a wooden-stock rifle is inherently less dangerous than a plastic one.
And, for the record, I am tediously, annoyingly aware of current second-amendment jurisprudence and the lack of sufficient political will to change the constitution, and while I don’t think the former is well considered, the situation is what it is. It just sucks. It leaves America unique among stable democracies in having gun violence anywhere near the top of the list of causes of death.
By all means, the gun nerds should put it everywhere and inform the previously ignorant public.
The problem is how rude so many of them are about it.
Instead of “there is no such thing as an ‘assault rifle’ and here’s how that myth got started,” it’s “define assault rifle.” It’s this weird assumption that everyone knows as much about guns as they do and it really doesn’t help them. I get that it can be a knee-jerk reaction to people who have issues with guns (as is assuming anyone who has issues with guns wants a blanket ban on them), but it really does not help.
Not to go off on a tangent, but it’s “assault weapon” that’s the boogeyman term, meant to confuse the uninformed with assault rifles. Assault rifles are select fire, full auto and burst fire capable rifles. Assault weapons are semi-automatic rifles that have the same or similar cosmetics as assault rifles.
The trick is a person latches onto the adjective, not the noun, and a rifle is a kind of weapon, so it makes it seem like assault rifles fit under assault weapons, when I’m fact it’s the opposite.
It’s a distinction without much of a difference, though. Apart from auto and burst fire, a modern AR-15 does everything an M4A1 does. The Marines’ M4 and M16A4 models don’t even go past burst.
If semi-auto rifles are going to be legal at all, they should have a small integral magazine that’s non-trivial to modify. The sheer efficiency of these rifles makes them really good for assaulting humans, because that’s what they were designed for.
The brass took away the giggle switch from the crayon eaters to save on their ammo bill. There’s a reason “marining” is a verb, after all.
But every gun is designed to kill people, all the way back to the musket. And your suggestion of an integral magazine doesn’t do much, even if you could somehow round up all the ARs with detachable mags and “fix” them. The M1 Garand and it’s stripper clips are a historic example, and the modern ejection port mag loaders the neutered California ARs have to use make it trivial to reload.
You want to tackle this issue? Safe storage laws, building a culture around free, government-provided training and safety, and harsher punishments for NDs are a place to start. That’s not even getting into the quagmire that is our terrible healthcare system, and law enforcement that on average can’t do their jobs and act on tips that would stop many of the recent big mass shootings.
Thank you for correcting me politely! This is the sort of thing that needs to be done more! I did mean to write ‘assault weapon,’ my apologies.
If someone is going to make claims about ARs that are dubious wouldn’t asking for a definition of ARs be the best way to make sure they’re talking about the same thing instead of misunderstanding? I’ve never seen someone ask for the definition of AR from someone who wasn’t talking about ARs. Seems like a completely reasonable question and I have no idead why one would think otherwise.
Telling someone, “define assault rifle,” which is what I see, is not the same as something like, “do you know that there is no such thing as an assault rifle?”
I don’t disagree but it’s frustrating to somebody who cares and is knowledgeable about a topic to have people militantly try to outlaw and poorly regulate it while not having critical knowledge and understanding on the topic. There’s a reason gun people tend to be very irritated by a lot of the anti-gun crowd.
Which is exactly the reason why patience is needed.
Again, I agree, but have you ever tried to patiently educate every poorly informed opinion on the internet?
Your image is confusing. How does a the rifle with no magazine have the same capacity to rapid fire as the one above it? The Ar-15 appears to have more bullets immediately available, which would mean it would fire them faster.
How is having a pistol grip that improves comfort and hip firing not make the weapon easier and more comfortable to use?
How is being less visible at night not make a black gun more dangerous than one with a bright wooden sheen?
Do both guns have the same exact default trigger pull, or is the ar-15’s lighter and easier to fire?
These guns are different enough in actual use to make one more dangerous than the other. They both can kill you dead, but one literally is designed specifically to be deadiler in several ways. It’s one of the reasons mass murders keep using it specifically to mas murder people.
Why is it surprising that it’s considered deadiler?
