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This reminds me of Asimov’s Prelude to Foundation and the signs of the fall of Trantor
I hope it sinks.
Rid hard, put away wet.
Going to need some Rust-eze on that
so, i can’t impress upon everyone the toll the ocean has on ships. the ocean seems to make it its mission to sink every vessel in it, one steel later at a time. and paint only lasts so long.
when in a deployment, the scraping and repainting maintenance is not able to be done. and this is a standard result of a ship being out. other then paint discoloration, i don’t see anything wrong with it.
i was going to say it looks to be riding high so either supplies or crew are low (which given what we’ve heard about the lincoln, it’s a good move to get as much of the nonessential crew off there as possible i’d think. i’d also think more of the airplanes too tho)
Don’t feed the trolls.
If they wouldn’t have been deployed way too long, it wouldn’t look like that. You’re making the argument for the meme.
i mean i agree that they should not be out so long, but no ship comes back looking very good, maybe a touch up port side in hawaii.
mine didn’t look much different. the meme seems to point to exceptional military incompetence as to why it looks like that. but that’s just your average levels of neglect.
So the front fell off?
Had to think of this:
Still the funniest fact about Darwin is his legendary hatred for barnacles, also the fact his kids just thought a dad having barnacles for study was normal.
I can smell this picture
crusty walls
Lots of seamen.
I want to be clear about something before anyone interprets this as me defending Trump: I am not a Trump supporter. I consider him one of the worst presidents in U.S. history, and I have very little interest in defending either him or his political agenda.
That is precisely why I have a problem with memes like this being presented as factual arguments.
The USS Abraham Lincoln really did return to port after an extraordinarily long deployment. The photograph is real, and the ship genuinely looks rough after spending months at sea. But using that photograph as evidence that Trump somehow left the U.S. military looking like this is misleading. The Lincoln had just completed a 286 day deployment, including roughly 208 consecutive days at sea and about 200 days in a combat zone. That is actually a far more legitimate thing to criticize. Keeping a carrier and its crew deployed for that length of time raises serious questions about operational tempo, maintenance, readiness, crew fatigue, and the strain being placed on the Navy. Those are substantive criticisms that deserve discussion.
Instead, we get this stupid little meme that takes a completely legitimate photograph, strips away all of its context, and presents it as though it is evidence of something it does not actually demonstrate. That is intentionally misleading the people who see it, and then encouraging them to repeat the misinformation because it supports an agenda.
That’s the problem I keep seeing on Lemmy: a legitimate political point gets wrapped in misinformation because the misinformation makes the meme more effective. People then repeat it because it supports a conclusion they already agree with.
I don’t think that’s acceptable simply because the target is Trump.
One of the things that infuriates me about Trump and his political movement is their willingness to manipulate facts, exploit outrage, selectively present information, and construct narratives that are technically based on something real while being fundamentally misleading. We shouldn’t respond to that by adopting the same tactics.
If we believe our position is actually stronger, then we should be able to make the argument honestly.
You can criticize Trump’s claims about “rebuilding the military.” You can criticize defense spending, procurement failures, maintenance problems, military readiness, the defense industrial complex, or the extraordinary deployment demands being placed on the Navy. There are plenty of legitimate arguments to make.
We don’t need to manufacture evidence to make those arguments.
If our standard becomes “misinformation is acceptable when it hurts the people we dislike,” then we’ve abandoned the very standard we’re supposedly defending. Worse, we’ve made ourselves vulnerable to exactly the same rhetorical tactics when they’re used against us.
Being better than Trump and his political movement means more than disagreeing with them. It means refusing to become comfortable with the methods we condemn when they’re politically convenient.
I don’t disagree, but we’re living in the age of memes and 30 second videos. People don’t even bother to do the most basic of fact checking. They’re too hung up on trying to “win” discussions, while being “accurate” or “truthful” takes a back seat.
Man. Ain’t that the truth. If I had a nickel for every logical fallacy I’ve been accused of committing I’d… Have like twenty bucks. But that’s a lot of nickels.
Excited about big post, it must have lots of good information. Incredibly disappointed after reading it. Nonsensical complaints and logic fallacies abound all under the guise of correctness. Yes, we need to fight lies with facts with an administration that could care less about facts.
You’re the second person to tell me I made a logical fallacy in this post.
So let me state it plainly: the meme is intentionally misleading and is creating propagandized misinformation against a politician.
The Abraham Lincoln is superficially rusty. That has no effect on its combat ability and has nothing to do with how much money Trump has sunk into the military.
The bigger criticisms are how poorly managed the Abraham Lincoln’s deployment was, the torment the sailors must have faced during such a long deployment, and the fact that, despite the military receiving even more money, situations like this still happen.
We should not use the same tactics our adversaries use.
And I’ll tell you what I told the other guy: the stupidest people on this platform are the ones who respond with “wall of text” and “logical fallacies.”
This is not a formal debate. I am not trying to convince you of anything, and you most assuredly won’t convince me of anything.
I have made my case very clearly, and instead of addressing any of the points I made, you simply cry “logical fallacy.” What an absolute waste.
Anyone who actually thinks about what you wrote would tell you the same thing. You have constructed a strawman in regards to the meaning of this meme. There is no misinformation presented that you have identified to my discernment.
A picture is worth a thousand words and this picture highlights the long deployment and torment the sailors had to go through.
We should definitely use the tactics the enemy uses if they are effective and this administration operates purely off vibes. Facts don’t matter, but feelings do. This is exactly how we should be attacking them.
I get you want to dismiss criticism, but I think you are way off base with me. I was genuinely excited to read your post. This is not a debate rather it is a discussion. The reality is you didn’t add anything meaningful other than nonsensical complaints.
Your lack of reading comprehension does not make my complaints “nonsensical.”
I very clearly stated the facts and arguments I was making.
I did not commit a straw man. I cannot commit a straw man against you because I am the one making the initial argument. A straw man would require me to misrepresent your argument and substitute it with a weaker argument that is easier to attack. That is not what I did. I made an accusation and then defended the position I was actually arguing.
You, on the other hand, are committing a straw man by substituting my actual argument with the assertion that my argument is simply “nonsense.” That is not an argument against what I said. It is a dismissal that avoids engaging with the actual points I made.
Stop throwing around logical fallacies you clearly do not understand. If you are going to accuse someone of committing a fallacy, you should at least understand what the fallacy means, how to identify it, and how to demonstrate that it actually applies.
I don’t see what factual argument is being made in ANY of the three layers of this meme. Or how Trump is mentioned or involved at all. “The ship has arrived at port” with a photo of the ship. Surely your issue isn’t with that. “My God, the state of that ship” is not a factual assertion of anything, except that the ship externally looks pretty rough in that photo after that long deployment. And “A passenger on the titanic had a better experience” is is obviously not an earnest assertion of fact either, it’s a joke. Sinking into the freezing Atlantic and 2/3rds of them dying is not meant as some serious comparison to serving on a Navy vessel for a long deployment, it’s humor. Nothing is being asserted in these memes, nothing even vaguely related to Trump is mentioned, and I’d love to hear your argument for how any of the text or images here are rising to the alarmist level of “manufacturing evidence”
Imagine this was a photo of a WWII bomber returning home after a long and hard deployment, you wouldn’t interpret someone saying “wow that bomber looks beat to shit” as some kind of misinformation or assertion of fact or personal attack on President Roosevelt would you?
You say after having all the context presented to you.
Dude, don’t be a contrarian just for the sake of it. You know exactly what this meme implies and what it means and how out of context it is, don’t even.
Well at least you’ve retrenched from this is “manufacturing evidence” to this “implies” something. Which in no way are the same thing. I agree with you that it vaguely implies something about our Navy assets and sailors being worked too hard during this war, which is certainly a fair point for discussion, but that wasn’t your original argument in any way. So from a motte and bailey fallacy perspective I feel good about that progress. Also a pretty bold move calling your own wall of text on the matter “all the context” but that’s rather beside the point.
The stupidest people on this platform hide behind logical fallacies they can’t properly identify or use correctly, then call what I wrote a “wall of text.” You’re like the 20th person this month to use this exact tactic, and it looks and sounds just as stupid coming from you as it did from your counterparts.
Nobody manufactured evidence. Nor did I make any implications. I explicitly called out the manufactured propaganda the meme was displaying and the misinformation it was attempting to promote.
Apparently, you have some kind of disagreement with that. So let me state it plainly and head back down to the motte:
I am proclaiming that the meme is propagandizing misinformation.
Proceed.
Maybe I’m overthinking the meme, but to me that picture means exactly what you said about excessively long deployments and the issues of maintaining both materiel and personnel as an effective force when that happens. It sums up the whole bundle of problems in one image, even if the thing pictured isn’t directly the issue. Sure, a more nuanced and detailed aanalysis is better, but this gets the message across to even people who don’t have the mental bandwidth for that.
Another troll. Internet rule #1: don’t feed the trolls.
What this meme is trying to say is that even though the orange man put a lot of money into the military. It’s still crappy. Probably implying that somebody’s just pocketing the money or some sort of government inefficiency, but it most certainly doesn’t imply that it is one that Abraham Lincoln. There’s no way to tell that that is the carrier in question and to any context as to how it received the rust to start with. The meme is expressly weaponized propaganda.
I’d agree with your statement if it was simply the picture of the ship and the text criticizing Trump, but context is provided about the ship and I think that most people are aware of the horrible misuse of this ship and her personnel.
This is the meme shown in the feed that everyone is going to see. Some people might go into the comments section for additional context, but most won’t. And very few are going to actually fact-check it like I did.
The meme itself, which has the most visibility, is essentially saying, “Even though Trump put more money into the military, our ships still look like this.” There is intentionally no context in the meme itself.
That’s the problem I’m criticizing. The photograph may be real, but the way it is presented encourages people to draw a connection between Trump’s military spending and the cosmetic condition of the ship without providing the context necessary to support that conclusion.
I don’t know. If Trump has taught us anything, it’s that a significant percentage of people struggle with empathy. And despite us being the war hawk, military police of the world, I would guess there are fewer people who understand what it’s like to be deployed that long than folks who are used to landlords slapping a coat of paint on something and pretending they totally rebuilt it, brand new.
Both are enormously disrespectful. Trump doesn’t give two shits about the people, the money, or the equipment he burns on this giant Epstein file distraction.
Totally agree.
Weighted takes are hard, being salty after a meme is much easier.
You make a valid point if this were misinformation. But where’s the misinformation? That’s a picture of the ship. Salt water and steel don’t mix well, we all know this. Long deployments at sea means stretched maintenance schedules. And for what purpose? Nobody really knows. Israel has nukes, why can’t Iran? This war is costing us immensely and for no other purpose than so Israel doesn’t release Donnie’s pedo proof. There’s no misinformation in this meme. The ship looks like shit because it was there for a long ass time, but it does look like shit.
Where are you seeing misinformation in this?
Then say that in the meme. Don’t sensationalize it.
The fact that Donnie spent trillions of dollars on the military has nothing to do with the Abraham Lincoln being rusty. In fact, as far as I can tell, the cosmetic damage to the ship has nothing to do with its combat readiness. I’m sure at some point it’ll get maintenance, get repainted, and be taken care of, considering it’s an active-duty ship.
The misleading part of the meme is that it implies all the money being spent on the military isn’t actually doing anything to keep the military up to date, which is absolutely untrue.
If you want to criticize the Abraham Lincoln’s maintenance, deployment, or condition, then do that. But there’s nothing in the meme that even indicates what’s happening in the Middle East, what ship it is, or any context for why it’s rusty in the first place.
That’s the problem. It’s taking an isolated image of cosmetic wear and presenting it as evidence that massive amounts of military spending aren’t accomplishing anything. That’s not an honest representation of what the image actually tells us.
military moneys spent and deployment schedules do have a lot to do with each other, though. it’s not an immediate, 1:1 thing. it’s a budget cycle/debt cycle, time value of money thing that the corrupt can use to grift.
Israel can have nukes because it’s the only democracy of the Middle East /s
The ship is fine. The post is trying to claim otherwise.
The sailors, the pointless war, etc… are valid concerns.
The OmG ShIp Got WuStY… Is undermining the real problems.
Right, I get that. But that’s a reaction to the meme. It is factually rusty. It’s not necessarily a problem yet, but it isn’t misinformation. It’s just kinda small fry shit. Even the claim from trump that he’s rebuilt the military twice is simply eye-rolling in nature. It’s like calling him orange, it’s not important, but it’s true. Therefore it can’t really be called misinformation.
Disinformation is probably what they’re going for.
This ship is a ship in water. This happens to ships in water. We’re even discussing it now and it’s a non issue… Not the actual valid points related to the ship having been there.
Seawater is really aggressive. I don’t think this really a big issue as everyone makes out of this.
i mean, were we not dealing with a mad tyrant it would be a much bigger issue. it’s a visible symbol of systemic maintenance delays throughout the entire military and government. moneys going somewhere tho
No, I wouldn’t go this far. Look at other ocean ships after a couple of weeks; they look like this.
it’s not the paint, it’s the unnecessarily extended deployment. sorry, i was being imprecise
That’s the issue, you’re right.
wow, maybe the military need more money to fix up their stuff. the only cause of this could be lack of funding, right? right?
Yeah a 1.5 trillion dollar budget just isn’t enough /s
military tend to have some of the most creative accounting so no matter how much it is always not enough even though by all metrics it is more than enough
creative? they just don’t do it period. their fudge balance was something like 2 billion one year. i don’t pass something on if there’s a penny in there.
that’s literally a definition of creative accounting
that ignores the meaning of the word creative. it’s lazy but i neither feel like going on a rant nor teaching accounting today.
Probably yes. They need more money to fix the ship.
However there’s for sure enough money in the military.
So the question is, where did it all go?
Did you look under the Pentagon?
Why the fuck didn’t that come to a head the first time they failed audits? America failed us a long time ago.
What does he even think he means (Trump on “rebuilding twice”)?
I think rust is like ablative armor
We would call that “load bearing rust”.
why send it to battle? they’re disposing it, including the crew
A shining representation of what the US is like right now. A festering pit.
