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My mom tried to get me to go weed her garden when I was a kid and I first ran in to this weirdness. It still doesn’t make any sense to me.
Like… you’re working to grow these plants that you thing are beautiful… and if any plant you decide is not beautiful dares to grow you want me to go kill it? You think it’s moral to ask someone to go kill things just for being alive and not looking pretty enough to you?
I distinctly remember being told that plants aren’t humans and then being grounded for arguing that God isn’t human and yet him deciding that he didn’t like the looks of some humans based on their skin color and yanking them all out of his ‘garden’ would be unforgivably evil.
weeds are removed for good reason, though. they are an invasive species with little value and they will end up killing off the rest of the garden if left unchecked.
The heavy handed metaphor is one plant being a cat and the other a rabid leopard. Even if you love all animals, you and the cats aren’t safe with a leopard wandering around. But I’m sorry that some parents are so impatient with their kids that they can’t break this down to them logically.
Counterpoint: Dandelions
Pretty much the perfect plant that has nothing but positive benefits. People just decided they were a weed despite them being great for the soil, great for bees, lush, resilient, and literally every part of them being edible.
You’re missing the point entirely, assuming, incorrect, and insulting. Congratulations.
The term “weed” is used to mean any plant growing somewhere it is unwanted. It has nothing to do with whether or not a given species is considered invasive. The reason weeds are normally removed is simply because they’re growing there they aren’t wanted. They made the mistake of coming to life in someone’s flower garden and they don’t have flowers, or not ones the gardener considers pretty enough or fitting for the section of the garden they appeared in.
Simply because you have the ability to reach out and rip the plant from the earth and it’s completely powerless to stop you, does that give you the right to do so? To kill another living thing for no better reason than you’ve decided that you don’t think it’s pretty enough, or dislike the specific place it happened to grow?
If a more capable form of life saw humans as an invasive species as we seem very likely to kill off the rest of our garden if we remain unchecked and decided to kill us off would you support that?
If they had seeded our planet with the genetics for humans with a specific range of tan skin and upon returning considered anyone with skin lighter or darker than their ideal for their garden would it be fine for them to kill off anyone who didn’t fit what they wanted in a planetary garden?
entirely, assuming, incorrect, and insulting. Congratulations.
I work with the info provided. Feel free to clarify without the snark next time.
The term “weed” is used to mean any plant growing somewhere it is unwanted.
colloquially, sure. But I was reading it from the ecological perspective. Weeds have a specific term there and my mind goes to the times where I pulled out itchy or outright harmful weeds as a kid in my backyard. Tumbleweeds go past “aesthetically unwanted”.
Simply because you have the ability to reach out and rip the plant from the earth and it’s completely powerless to stop you, does that give you the right to do so?
That is nature, yea. I’m not going out of my way to pull out “unwanted flowers” that are otherwise harmless. But there are threat levels, so I will do so for (ecological) weeds.
We’re still animals and we hunt down plants and animals alike. And a few animals hunt us. I don’t complain if a bear starts chasing me down and eats me. That’s just the circle of life. We have issues with overhunting and deforestation, but I don’t disagree with the core issue of “plants are eaten by animals and animals are eaten by animals”
If a more capable form of life saw humans as an invasive species as we seem very likely to kill off the rest of our garden if we remain unchecked and decided to kill us off would you support that?
As a human, no. I will try to preserve my life. But a more capable life form that can reach earth probably has the ability to do whatever it wants. We wouldn’t put up much of a fight against such tech.
I’d hope we could talk it out, but if not… welp, circle of life I guess.
“Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god. Thoughts of a Biologist” ― Jean Rostand
Don’t get me wrong, though. Humans collectively are pretty shitty conquerors. We can do a lot better to preserve life.
The term “weed” has no formal scientific status at all, including in Ecology. You’re conflating how you apparently think of the term with an actual established ecological definition as being an invasive species.
For the rest you’re still completely missing the point. It’s ethics and morality applied to a specific situation. If I was standing there with a gun to your head because I’ve decided you’re offensive to my garden you wouldn’t genuinely believe it’s fine for me to kill you simply because you can’t do anything to stop it. Likewise if a bigger, stronger person beat your mother or child to death.
You would cry out at the injustice. You would feel I had no right. Your life was your own, and it was horrible for me to end it just because I decided I didn’t like how you look. That it was unforgivably wrong for that man to beat your mother or child to death just because he didn’t like their face and felt like doing it in the moment. You’d want some authority to intervene and punish the killer or stop me from pulling the trigger. You’d think of them as being the heroes, doing the right thing and saving the day, and me or the killer as the evil wrongdoers.
There’s a clear and obvious distinction between taking another life as a necessity because you need to eat in order to survive, and killing on a whim because you decide you don’t like how one form of life looks. Even without that, I’d certainly pay money to watch a bear chasing you down and eating you so that I could witness how much you’re definitely not talking out your ass when saying that you wouldn’t complain about it, because bears needs food.
The term “weed” has no formal scientific status at all,
Sure it does. It’s not astrophysics precise (because biology in general is a “soft science” in many regards), but it has a meaning when you talk about it in the domain.
In botany, a weed is a general term for any plant growing where it is not wanted. Weeds interfere with human activities and compete with crop plants for water, light, and nutrients.
Some weeds can later be found to have previously unknown benefits and be removed from the category, while other cultivated plants can be transplanted to new climates, escape cultivation, and become weeds or invasive species. Thus, the category of weeds is ever-changing, making the term relative.
The general term for the first sentence is what everyone uses colloquially. But the reasoning for it being unwanted is not “because it looks weird”. an otherwise “attractive” plant (like grass) can be a weed in some other context if it’s taking nutrients from more ecologically valuable plants.
It’s ethics and morality applied to a specific situation.
And I agree. But I also agree there is no morality to a polar bear eating your face. That’s just nature. There are lines, I don’t know your specific context.
For me, I was raised removing tumbleweeds. One of the most tenacious and invasive weeds out there. I don’t even think they are native to my country. But I sure hold no remorse pulling them up the same way I would a dandelion (even if me blowing on one is technically spreading it out).
If I was standing there with a gun to your head because I’ve decided you’re offensive to my garden you wouldn’t genuinely believe it’s fine for me to kill you simply because you can’t do anything to stop it.
Sure. Then a man with a bigger gun will at best arrest you and you’d be thrown in jail. We realized human on human violence needs to be regulated to make it as close to zero as possible. The police have a monopoly on unchecked violence, so our options without consequences are limited and discouraged.
There’s a clear and obvious distinction between taking another life as a necessity because you need to eat in order to survive, and killing on a whim because you decide you don’t like how one form of life looks.
Yup.
I’d certainly pay money to watch a bear chasing you down and eating you so that I could witness how much you’re definitely not talking out your ass when saying that you wouldn’t complain about it, because bears needs food.
I’d run. I’d try to defend myself. I’d do my best to preserve my life. But trying to shame a bear seems like a useless endeavor. Thtat’s all I’m trying to get across with my metaphor.
they are an invasive species
Thats mostly false in my experience, though that will depend on the locality i guess. On the contrary, a lot of garden plants are invasive in the local ecosystem
ah yes the “grounded for sharing an opinion the parent doesn’t like” rule
comes second only to the .ml “banned for rule 1, 2”
I was always too smart and came across as a condescending asshole even as a kid. I should probably just give her credit for not leaving me in the back seat of the car and driving it into a lake.
It can’t be easy to have a young kid who explains why something you consider a normal, basic part of life is actually heartless and immoral evil and to not be able to come up with any real response back. I probably killed her self esteem so many times without ever realizing it. :/
shout out to John Locke
Remember butterflies do not splay their wings like that. That’s a dead butterfly from someone’s collection, so already killed.
If they are sitting soaking up sunshine to heat up their bodies they will definitely do that on their own.
I think the real difference between moths and butterflies, from my own observations, is that moths will stow their wings backwards like most other insects when not in use, while butterflies will just fold them upwards, not moving them tailwards at all.
Moths are night pollinators and very essential for nature to thrive!
When I find one indoors, I try to use a cup and paper to put it outside. Years ago I was ignorant of them, and many insects in general, and I feel sad whenever someone kills moths, spiders, etc.
More so now when insects and other small animals are seeing a mass extinction event. We desperately need more of them, not less.
I don’t ever remember feeling ewww towards the moths or others like it. In my mind they are not that different than butterflies. Am I weird?
In my experience, Moths are more likely to get in yournface and other destructive and annoying activities.
Butterflies just sort of mill about minding their own business.
Who sees a moth and says “ew kill it?!” I don’t know this person
I couldn’t say why, but many of them freak me out. I don’t tend to demand that someone kill it, but I feel the “ew.”
A friend can’t stand their flight pattern. It’s too chaotic. I find misquitos and flies peskier, so I think this one might be a phobia.
It’s their flight pattern for me too.
Also, I have never been in a place with enough butterflies that some would get in my face, or I might have ended up smacking some that catch me distracted.That’s interesting, there’s something to that. They are hard to predict, and it puts me on edge. When they’re just perched somewhere, it bothers me less.
Moths are the one harmless thing I have an irrational fear of. A couple of times when I was very young a biggish moth got into my room a terrorized me (I’m guessing because of the way the light played off of my clothes).
I don’t go out of my way to exterminate them, but if one follows me inside and resists my first couple of attempts to catch and release it, I’m going to smash the hell out of it.
I’m mostly over the visceral fear at this point, but if a big bastard is flying around a porch light I’m not sticking around.
Edit to add: I would probably smack a butterfly out of the air if it got in my face the way moths do. Equal opportunity irrationality.
I like moths. I think they are neat, and I really wish them the best.
Until they get in my room, and fly into my face when I’m looking at my phone in bed. Then its time for them to die, because they never follow light out of my room or respond to being shooed out.
Moths are considered pests because they can eat your clothes. Though personally ive never run into this because I’ve never had moths living in my house.
Im too lazy to Google but theres soemthing like 3x the moths to every butterfly species… Surely only one or two specifically eat human cloth materials
It’s more like five or six, but yes they’re highly specialized.
do those moths even eat polyester?
They only eat animal-based textiles, like leather, wool, or silk
The moths that eat your clothes are the larva and they’re teensy tiny so you probably wouldn’t see em.
Interesting I didn’t know that
personally i’ve never run into this because i’ve never had clothes (/hj)
I’m a huge fan of moths, I keep a photo album with a photo for every species’s I’ve found. So far around 90, my favorite specimen is Basilodes pepita. I’ve only every seen two, extremely striking in person, photo can’t do it justice
Moths can be cute too
ew, kill both of them <- me, a bug hater
Surprised nobody’s mentioned the actual difference yet, i.e. moths are more likely to fuck your wardrobe up
That’s just a few specific species, called clothes moths. They pretty much only go for animal fibers.
Moths are just goth butterflies, LBR. (Rosy maple moths are pastel goths.)
Moths do have more of a tendency to slip into the house and be a pest, but I find them pretty straightforward to catch with a cup and relocate outside. I keep my pantry food in sealed containers to avoid uninvited critters eating it before I can, and the vaaaast majority of moths don’t eat clothes (plus even the few who do primarily dine on animal fibers, which leaves my plant-fiber wardrobe alone), so they don’t really have much ability to cause me any real grief beyond my desire for them not to fly in my face and also my desire not to hurt them by accident.
You guys kill months WTF!?
yeah, they suck.
they eat my clothes and they eat my grains.
fuck wool moths and grain moths, fuckers.
From what I read down the thread only some species do that, the ones where I’m at don’t do that kind of shit so I guess I was naive.
lucky, like 90% of moths I see are the ones that eat my shit and yeah I’m killing those fuckers, and seeing one of them makes me have to like pull out my clothes and check all my stored grains for infestation.
if you are infested it’s a bitch to get rid of them. grain moths are nasty little fuckers.
kill months
It’s called passage of time sir. :P
Dicking away the moments that make up a dull day.
I think the lyric is “Ticking away…”. but I think I like the idea of dicking away the moments that make a dull day more.
They didn’t have the internet. Maybe they really did waste time staring at clocks ticking, but we have dicking off here to keep us busy.
I accidentally had a moth die in my bedroom recently. :( I felt/feel like a monster. It was big and pretty(ish), but…it was big enough and flew aggressively enough that I initially thought a hummingbird might have gotten in. It triggered my bug fear/fight-or-flight (I traditionally choose flight). I thought I had more time to work up the courage for the rescue mission. :(
The silver lining is another big moth got in the next night and I was fueled by guilt on an extensive 2-3 AM rescue mission that involved me turning off every light, drawing video game-like checkpoint markers with the light of my phone (just a theory I had), holding a box fan pointed at the door towards escape, etc… And it fucking WORKED. You just have to be really patient for like 20 minutes. Or 30-45. It took a bit.
I’m so proud of you, never change
Thanks. If I’d had a shoe box handy, I would’ve at least tried with the other one, but I just didn’t. Tried luring him to no avail.
Did you figure out what type of moths they were? Curious as to how big.
Look, February was always missing a few days in the shed. We knew it was inevitable.
But nah, I don’t get it. Moths are pretty chill. maybe I swatted a few in my face, but I don’t go out of my way to squish them.
Only September. I don’t know why, but there’s a popular song about it and I wanted to fit in so I sleep through that one.
I AM ABSOLUTELY HERE FOR PRO MOTH PROPAGANDA
i love them both so much 🥹
Lämp
I find it interesting how in english there are 2 different words for moths/butterflies :3. In my native language there aren’t (though colloquially butterflies are referred to by the diminutive and moths by the base word… at least in my experience)
Anywho, moths are cool, I like them :3
Curious. In polish there are also two words. Moth is “ćma” and butterfly is “motyl”. Funfact: There is also “ćmić” whichs kinda archaic,but can mean giving very small light (for example, embers), a very small but constant pain or shading/covering/dimming something.
And apparently the word comes from latin “tenebra”. Quite dramatic, as it means the word has it roots in word for darkness itself. Quite a name for a small, mostly blind furry butterfly wannabe.
Yeah, in lithuanian we just have drugys, though as I said in my experience people use drugys for moths, and drugelis for butterfly, though if you search drugys on the internet and go to pictures you will mostly get pictures of butterflies :3 you’d have to search for “naktinis drugys” (nocturnal butterfly) to get moths
And apparently the word comes from latin “tenebra”.
No, what source told you that? It’s from Proto-Slavic tьma (darkness), which is a native word. Related to Latin tenebrae, yes, but through a common ancestor.
That’ll be because all butterflies are just moths that fly in the daytime. Moths are substantially older and have substantially more variance.
As a side note, the ‘buttetfly’ in the famous kids book ‘The very hungry caterpillar’ is in fact a moth as it comes from a cocoon.
all butterflies are just moths that fly in the daytime
I mean, that’s just plain wrong though.
