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2+2*4=164 ☝️🤓
Okay, buddy elementary school
Is that a good elementary school?
It’s okay, buddy
Fourg
Some programming languages do away with operator precedence for a big parsing speed boost. J/APL and stack languages are “best known”. in J, right to left parsing,
16 = 4 * 2 + 2
Assuming an equation with no context is anything but standard mathematics is peak “well, technically”
Wait, which numeral system are we using
Null.
This isn’t even math, just convention on rules for order of operations.
Order of operations only has one rule: Bedmas (or pemdas if you’re not from north america)
Huh it was always pemdas in both highschool and college in new England for me… they were also always parentheses. ‘Brackets’ only reffered to ‘[ ]’ which were reserved for matrices or number sets, eg 2*[2,5,8]+2= [6,12,18]
I think canadians call ( ) brackets in math
If you look at the arguments on math forums, you’ll see that there isn’t just one rule.
It is a convention, and different places teach different conventions.
Namely, some places say thatPEDMASis a very strict order. Other places say that it isPE D|M A|S, where D and M are the same level and order is left-to-right, and same with addition vs subtraction.
And others, even in this post, say it’sPEMDAS, which I have heard before.“Correct” and “incorrect” don’t apply to conventions, it’s simply a matter of if the people talking agree on the convention to use. And there are clearly at least three that highly educated people use and can’t agree on.
different places teach different conventions
But they all teach the same rules
some places say that PEDMAS is a very strict order
Which is totally fine and works
Other places say that it is PE D|M A|S,
Which is also totally fine and works
even in this post, say it’s PEMDAS
Also totally fine and works
it’s simply a matter of if the people talking agree on the convention to use
No-one has to agree on any convention - they can use whatever they want and as long as they obey the rules it will work
can’t agree on
Educated people agree that which convention you use doesn’t matter.
That’s not true Here is an example:
8÷2x4
PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1
PEDMAS: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
PE M|D A|S: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
And thats not even getting into juxtaposition operations, where fields like physics use conventions that differ from most other field.but you’re missing the point. It could be SAMDEP and math would still work, you’d just rearrange the equation. Just like with prefix or postfix notation. The rules don’t change, just the notation conventions change. But you need to agree on the notation conventions to reach the same answer.
That’s not true
Yes it is
PEDMAS: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
Yep.
PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1
Nope. PEMDAS: 8x4÷2 = 32÷2 = 16. What you actually did is 8÷(2x4), in which you changed the sign in front of the 4 - 8÷(2x4)= 8÷2÷4 - hence your wrong answer
PE M|D A|S: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
Yep, same answer regardless of the order 🙄
And thats not even getting into juxtaposition operations,
Which I have no doubt you don’t understand how to do those either, given you don’t know how to even do Multiplication first in this example.
where fields like physics use conventions that differ from most other field
Nope! The obey all the rules of Maths. They would get wrong answers if they didn’t
you’re missing the point
No, you are…
It could be SAMDEP and math would still work
No it can’t because no it wouldn’t 😂
you’d just rearrange the equation.
Says someone who didn’t rearrange “PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1” and got the wrong answer 😂
The rules don’t change
Hence why “PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1” was wrong. You violated the rule of Left Associativity
Ok, then explain prefix and postfix, where these conventions don’t apply. How can these be rules of math when they didn’t universally apply?
Says someone who didn’t rearrange "PEMDAS
The order of operations tells us how to interpret an equation without rearranging it. When you pick a different convention, you need to rearrange it to get the same answer. What you did was rearrange the equation, which you can only do if you are already following a specific convention.
No it can’t because no it wouldn’t 😂
All conventions can produce the correct answer, when appropriately arranged for that convention, because the conventions are not laws of mathematics, they are conventions.
Nope! The obey all the rules of Maths. They would get wrong answers if they didn’t
They obey the laws of math. Conventions aren’t laws of math, they’re conventions. And a quick Google search will tell you that not everyone puts juxtaposition at a higher precedent than multiplication; it’s a convention. As long as people are using the same convention, they’ll agree on an answer and that answer is correct.
You can be mean all you like, that doesn’t change the nature of conventions
Ok, then explain prefix and postfix, where these conventions don’t apply
The conventions don’t apply, the rules still apply. Maths notation and the rules of Maths aren’t the same thing.
How can these be rules of math when they didn’t universally apply?
The rules do universally apply 🙄
The order of operations tells us how to interpret an equation without rearranging it
Yep, and you showed you don’t know the rules 🙄
When you pick a different convention, you need to rearrange it to get the same answer
Not necessarily, though it makes it easier (but also leads a lot of people to make mistakes with signs, as you found out 😂 )
What you did was rearrange the equation
To show you how to correctly do “Multiplication first”. 🙄
which you can only do if you are already following a specific convention
Which you didn’t, hence why you ended up with a wrong answer. 🙄 There is no textbook which says put the multiplication in Brackets if doing “Multiplication first”, none.
because the conventions are not laws of mathematics, they are conventions
And putting the Multiplication inside Brackets isn’t a convention anywhere 🙄
They obey the laws of math. Conventions aren’t laws of math, they’re conventions
Yep, and you ignored both, hence your wrong answer 🙄
And a quick Google search will tell you that not everyone puts juxtaposition at a higher precedent than multiplication
And a quick look in the Google support forum will show you many people telling them that is wrong, and Google just closes the incident 🙄
it’s a convention
No it isn’t. It’s against the rules. 🙄 Again, you won’t find this alleged “convention” in any Maths textbook
As long as people are using the same convention, they’ll agree on an answer and that answer is correct
Unless they disobeyed the rules, in which case they are all wrong 🙄
You can be mean all you like, that doesn’t change the nature of conventions
And you can be as ignorant of the rules and conventions of Maths as much as you want, and it’s not going to change that your answer is wrong 🙄
The one response you got was just like, “But there’s just ONE rule.” totally missing your point.
Should really allow people to answer how they want.
Who’s Big Math in charge of the multiple choice?
Who’s denying a voice to those who want to answer that question with “10”? [Edit: or “F”? ~ or an essay on being “off by 1”]
I love this so much because on the ballot, the right answer is also often missing
8x + 2
deleted by creator
Not with that attitude it’s not!?!
(Americans be like: skill issue, git guud)
Technically it can be, since PEMDAS is not an immutable law, it’s convention so we can communicate maths and come to the same answer.
It’s a convention just as letters and digits are. If you communicate with people, you better follow the convention they are used to or make it explicit when you don’t. That is when your goal is to be understood of cause. Otherwise dkfurveekfifrhrvaakdjf I guess
BEDMAS is just as immutable as the idea that those symbols represent numbers and operations. All math is based on conventions; you can’t just decide that some are more important than others.
Yeah, in the way that 12 inches equal a foot
It’s completely arbitrary, but it’s very very very important that we agree on measurements
At least twice now I’ve had math nerds get really mad when I suggested “if people are misreading it, add parentheses”. Very much skinner “it’s the children who are out of touch”.
Some people would rather be right than understood, I guess.
No one’s going to die because you write
x = c + (a * b)even though those parentheses aren’t strictly needed.
Solve for x
Here you go:
2 + 2x4 = 2 + 24x
Rearranging leads to
x = -1/12
which means that x is the limit of the diverging series:
x = 1 + 2 + 3 + …
Wouldnt 2x4 actually equate to 2 * 4 * x not 24 * x? So it would be 8x?
Regular multiplication? Sure. But this is Rustydrd multiplication, which assigns different values to products I don’t like.
Let’s just agree to disagree, then. /s
That 10 guy is totally biased.
We should hear from both sides.
I say we vote on it. Oh, wait. /s
