Pulling a gun in this situation will absolutely, without a doubt, get you killed. If that’s the way you want to go, that’s your decision, but it’s not going to do anything to protect you.
And if you don’t pull a gun in this situation it will absolutely, without a doubt, get you killed. If that’s the way you want to go, that’s your decision, but compliance is not going to do anything to protect you.
…and if those are the options, might as well drop a Nazi or two on your way out.
Lol, just caught seven day hammer on the “fuck spez” site for saying exactly this. When the choice is torture or a quick out, the answer is very simple. Marx said it best, all attempts must be frustrated.
Well if they get rid of habeas corpus then you may as well consider yourself dead the moment they try to “arrest you”. Never go to a second location if you want to remain whole.
What we really need is the gangs to step in and protect thier territory from ICE. They have networks of people who can hide them if they get identified. And good luck to the agents who come and try to arrest them. The cycle will just build and build.
In my limited experience of just living in bad neighborhoods, most gangs I’ve encountered are just small groups of kids that sell drugs, rob, burglarize, fight, and occasionally kill kids in other small groups. From talking to older people that were in gangs (well, they still consider themselves to be in a gang, but the gang doesn’t functionally exist or do anything), things were much different in the 80s and 90s. Guessing it differs depending on the city though (there aren’t really “territories” in my city; drugs are sold through apps/text).
Hadn’t really considered gangs… I wonder if this will drive them into some unity. If they got over the whole red vs blue bullshit or racial focus, their combined force would be one to be reckoned with.
…fucking sad when literal gang violence is being floated as a plausible solution to active tyranny.
If America goes to war with Mexico, I think may very well have Cartel forces stalking Republicans in Texas. We live in a world of possibilities, ones that shouldn’t have been plausible even a year ago.
What happens when you starting dropping ICE agents?
Genuinely curious, as an outsider it seems your right to bare arms to protect again the government is ridiculous. Your government has warships, fighter jets, and drones.
Seems at best you could maybe do some insurgent warfare, but I don’t think you’ll be overthrowing the government with guns.
Asymmetric warfare never intends to aim for a conventional peer to peer engagement with a far superior force. We’re not talking about pitched open battles here. We’re not talking about occupying territory or capturing objectives.
“What happens” is probably a lot of propaganda from the fascist media outlets. They’ll view it as a justification for increased political violence on their part. Probably as a pretext for martial law and the suspension or posse comitatus. Full blown military occupation.
If that happens, we’ll effectively be in a state of open civil war anyway. So it won’t really matter.
In any self-respecting civil war, people use jets and warships against someone’s orders, and build as many drones as they can. Handguns are how it starts - a crew taking control of a ship will be fighting their ex-commander with handguns.
Note: I do not recommend a civil war to the US folks. Almost any other problem-solving method is guaranteed to give better outcomes.
You’re question shows exactly why the west (especially the US) has such an issue doing anything in the modern day. Everyone asks “what can I do” not “what can we do.”
What happens the first time? You’re probably killed, and if not you’re caught and sentenced as if it’s illegal (even though it probably isn’t in most states if they don’t identify and don’t present a warrant). Maybe you can kill them and ghost if you’re incredibly lucky, and disappear somewhere.
What happens the hundredth time people do this? They start getting scared of acting and more people are encouraged to take action. Maybe they start coming down even harder, but that will just drive people to even more action. If that happens then they eventually lose. They have to maintain authority. Authority is not the default state. If they lose it then they’re done.
The goal wouldn’t be to overthrow the government - like you said, a .38 special isn’t going to do shit against an air strike; but it could do shit against like 1 or 2 ICE agents who are trying to violate your human rights. The goal would be to incapacitate them so that you can disappear and get to safety. Worse case scenario the attempt at self defense fails and you get killed on the spot; you’re looking at getting sent to a literal death camp anyway for complying, so might as well try to take a few pop shots and gtfo before they have a chance to get your ID.
The escalation from there, as a few others have mentioned, is guerrilla warfare. We’re still no match for the full force of the government, but if the government wants to go full Nazi, the people can go ahead and go full Inglorious Basterds. I wouldn’t expect anyone to just bend over and accept their death at the hands of fascism. Fight back.
My point being the us fucking sucks dick and balls at combating against gorilla warfare. And I’m willing to bet the eu would help (at least a small amount, perhaps with training if not by suppling arms) if an organized resistance were to ask nicely.
EU won’t risk such a thing if the US is unlikely to collapse.
The only and I do mean only scenario I see an armed resistance succeeding in toppling ghe government is if a decent chunk of the military sides with it and partakes in the insurrection
The US, or any country in fact, is unlikely to give up a chunk of its land because some civilians have machine guns.
I think they’d rather flatten it before considering doing so.
Lets say California through Texas want to have a rebellion. How long do you think it’s going to last after the army blockades all the freeways and imposes a curfew.
Believe me I’d sleep a lot easier believing that if the government goes too far we can topple it. But when was the last time you saw something like that happen without the support of the military or the vast vast majority of the population in support.
And the American people will not rally together due to their strong allegiance to their respective political party
That would be a dumb place to start a rebellion. The capital is just below a bunch of liberal states it could be a quick in and out; Minecraft oof the traitors, and leave the presidential succession line to someone capable of not killing us all.
If you don’t have a gun yet, now might be the time.
Pulling a gun in this situation will absolutely, without a doubt, get you killed. If that’s the way you want to go, that’s your decision, but it’s not going to do anything to protect you.
And if you don’t pull a gun in this situation it will absolutely, without a doubt, get you killed. If that’s the way you want to go, that’s your decision, but compliance is not going to do anything to protect you.
…and if those are the options, might as well drop a Nazi or two on your way out.
Lol, just caught seven day hammer on the “fuck spez” site for saying exactly this. When the choice is torture or a quick out, the answer is very simple. Marx said it best, all attempts must be frustrated.
Well if they get rid of habeas corpus then you may as well consider yourself dead the moment they try to “arrest you”. Never go to a second location if you want to remain whole.
What we really need is the gangs to step in and protect thier territory from ICE. They have networks of people who can hide them if they get identified. And good luck to the agents who come and try to arrest them. The cycle will just build and build.
In my limited experience of just living in bad neighborhoods, most gangs I’ve encountered are just small groups of kids that sell drugs, rob, burglarize, fight, and occasionally kill kids in other small groups. From talking to older people that were in gangs (well, they still consider themselves to be in a gang, but the gang doesn’t functionally exist or do anything), things were much different in the 80s and 90s. Guessing it differs depending on the city though (there aren’t really “territories” in my city; drugs are sold through apps/text).
Hadn’t really considered gangs… I wonder if this will drive them into some unity. If they got over the whole red vs blue bullshit or racial focus, their combined force would be one to be reckoned with.
…fucking sad when literal gang violence is being floated as a plausible solution to active tyranny.
If America goes to war with Mexico, I think may very well have Cartel forces stalking Republicans in Texas. We live in a world of possibilities, ones that shouldn’t have been plausible even a year ago.
Apparently the cripts have gotten more diverse. Probably because that generational wealth gap has started to fade away.
What happens when you starting dropping ICE agents?
Genuinely curious, as an outsider it seems your right to bare arms to protect again the government is ridiculous. Your government has warships, fighter jets, and drones.
Seems at best you could maybe do some insurgent warfare, but I don’t think you’ll be overthrowing the government with guns.
Asymmetric warfare never intends to aim for a conventional peer to peer engagement with a far superior force. We’re not talking about pitched open battles here. We’re not talking about occupying territory or capturing objectives.
“What happens” is probably a lot of propaganda from the fascist media outlets. They’ll view it as a justification for increased political violence on their part. Probably as a pretext for martial law and the suspension or posse comitatus. Full blown military occupation.
If that happens, we’ll effectively be in a state of open civil war anyway. So it won’t really matter.
In any self-respecting civil war, people use jets and warships against someone’s orders, and build as many drones as they can. Handguns are how it starts - a crew taking control of a ship will be fighting their ex-commander with handguns.
Note: I do not recommend a civil war to the US folks. Almost any other problem-solving method is guaranteed to give better outcomes.
You’re question shows exactly why the west (especially the US) has such an issue doing anything in the modern day. Everyone asks “what can I do” not “what can we do.”
What happens the first time? You’re probably killed, and if not you’re caught and sentenced as if it’s illegal (even though it probably isn’t in most states if they don’t identify and don’t present a warrant). Maybe you can kill them and ghost if you’re incredibly lucky, and disappear somewhere.
What happens the hundredth time people do this? They start getting scared of acting and more people are encouraged to take action. Maybe they start coming down even harder, but that will just drive people to even more action. If that happens then they eventually lose. They have to maintain authority. Authority is not the default state. If they lose it then they’re done.
The goal wouldn’t be to overthrow the government - like you said, a .38 special isn’t going to do shit against an air strike; but it could do shit against like 1 or 2 ICE agents who are trying to violate your human rights. The goal would be to incapacitate them so that you can disappear and get to safety. Worse case scenario the attempt at self defense fails and you get killed on the spot; you’re looking at getting sent to a literal death camp anyway for complying, so might as well try to take a few pop shots and gtfo before they have a chance to get your ID.
The escalation from there, as a few others have mentioned, is guerrilla warfare. We’re still no match for the full force of the government, but if the government wants to go full Nazi, the people can go ahead and go full Inglorious Basterds. I wouldn’t expect anyone to just bend over and accept their death at the hands of fascism. Fight back.
Taliban, Vietcong have both beaten the US goverment in the past and recently. Despite not having access to the same level of weapons and other tech.
They also had homefield advantage which an American rebel group will not have.
Vietnam
Your house in the suburbs is an easy target and one in the boonies is an easier one.
Hard to organize an armed resistance when you’re so spread out and your best cover is made of drywall.
Though I do love your username
Iraq and Afghanistan.
My point being the us fucking sucks dick and balls at combating against gorilla warfare. And I’m willing to bet the eu would help (at least a small amount, perhaps with training if not by suppling arms) if an organized resistance were to ask nicely.
Guerrilla.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2_Ypb7Ddg
Cock and ball torture or sex 2 you choose
EU won’t risk such a thing if the US is unlikely to collapse.
The only and I do mean only scenario I see an armed resistance succeeding in toppling ghe government is if a decent chunk of the military sides with it and partakes in the insurrection
The us tends to get tired and pull out of any war it starts particularly gorilla wars; why would this be any different?
The US, or any country in fact, is unlikely to give up a chunk of its land because some civilians have machine guns.
I think they’d rather flatten it before considering doing so.
Lets say California through Texas want to have a rebellion. How long do you think it’s going to last after the army blockades all the freeways and imposes a curfew.
Believe me I’d sleep a lot easier believing that if the government goes too far we can topple it. But when was the last time you saw something like that happen without the support of the military or the vast vast majority of the population in support.
And the American people will not rally together due to their strong allegiance to their respective political party
That would be a dumb place to start a rebellion. The capital is just below a bunch of liberal states it could be a quick in and out; Minecraft oof the traitors, and leave the presidential succession line to someone capable of not killing us all.
It may not be as much as we like or hope for, but 100% of the military is not going to comply if things come to that.