Students have displayed mixed receptions to the new rule, with some welcoming it, agreeing with the government that phones can often become a distraction in class, while others believe the new measure displays a lack of trust in pupils. #EuropeNews
If the school wants to teach responsible use, they can provide school-owned phones for use during coursework.
The problem is that if you have a class of 18 students and all of them are looking at their phones during a lecture or while doing practice problems, it is impossible to police behavior by differentiating who is taking notes and who is texting friends, or who is using a calculator app and who is using Wolfram Alpha. It’s much easier to just say “no phones” so the teacher can quickly identify who is taking notes (on paper) or using a calculator (that is a TI 83) versus the students trying to sneakily use their phone under their desk.
Restructuring the education system to not be a day care prison where chidren are desperate to do anything else would work better, but we don’t like it when the day care doesn’t keep our children locked up while we are at work.
I’d prefer not going to university and rather spend all my time having fun. But as an adult, I can more easily rationalize why I should spend my time doing the former. Children do not yet have this ability - I certainly didn’t and would probably not have attended school much if my parents didn’t care. Phones were banned at my school and definitely forced me to pay attention as learning is usually significantly more entertaining/rewarding than fruitlessly trying to distract yourself by staring at the clock.
But as an adult, I can more easily rationalize why I should spend my time doing the former. Children do not yet have this ability
Are you sure? I mean by about 5th or 6th grade, we’d all been taught that we needed to go to university to be successful. I for sure wanted to go to university!
I tried going to university twice, straight after high school and then again ~8 years later, flunked out for different reasons each time, and realized that it’s not even going to improve my career, at least now that I don’t want to move to the US for work anymore anyway. So adult me has realized I could’ve started doing more programming earlier instead of even going to high school, and probably I’d be more successful. But kid me was super excited about university, and so were most of my peers.
Phones were banned at my school and definitely forced me to pay attention as learning is usually significantly more entertaining/rewarding than fruitlessly trying to distract yourself by staring at the clock.
This varies so much. I know I got bored as hell in most classes. The problem with analog textbooks is that you can read ahead, there’s no lock saying “You can’t open this chapter until next week”. The problem with ADHD (in my case) is that you get super bored by the slow pace of class. End result is you run out of curriculum way before everyone else, and at that point it’s watching the clock, playing games on your phone, or socializing. Watching the clock is also boring. Leaves phone or socializing.
Besides, my curious ass spent half the phone time on games, half the time on reddit, and half the time on Wikipedia reading about things I found on reddit. Yes, three halves. I don’t know, I was never good at managing time. Somehow everything takes more and less than expected.
No matter what structure they’ll focus on what engages them the most, which is pretty much always going to be the digital dopamine drip feed in their pocket.
Its not 2007 any more, we’ve had nearly 20 years to research this stuff and the results are pretty conclusive. Even a broken boomer is right twice a day 🤷
The problem is that at the moment the education ministries of EU member states can not regulate social media apps. We just had the identical discussion in Austria. They need to ban smartphone use in schools at the moment, because it’s the only legal route to get those teenagers away from social media during school hours.
but phone is not comparable to heroin. gaming or social media could be addicting. if sugar is addicting, do we ban shops? because shops sell sugary stuff (similar to phone providing the addictive thing)
When we identify something as addictive enough to be problematic, the government finds a suitable way to interrupt, slow, or even ban it, depending on what people are receptive to.
Again, some countries do stuff like that. They put regulations on what addictive content games can have, like loot boxes. China has attempted to restrict how many hours citizens can play games (though there’s a lot of resistance to it).
Social media is even trickier because it’s so vaguely defined, and doesn’t involve payment to begin with. What’s the concept - “Please pay a 5c tax to view one page of posts”? Even so, government committees have taken social media companies to task for their algorithms promoting divisive content before.
Are you a child/young teen with a completely different brain structure than a mature adult? Do you have already have the media literacy needed to navigate disinfo and toxic content online?
Kids really are a different species, but have predictable development. For every kid that’s responsible enough to have unrestricted device access there’s 50 more who just aren’t mature enough yet. There’s a limit to how much you can coach responsibility into them
Do you have already have the media literacy needed to navigate disinfo and toxic content online?
I think you get that by navigating disinfo and toxic content online, not by aging or going to school. Look at all the adults who believe everything they see online.
Personally I’m conflicted about using phones in class. Most kids shouldn’t. But there’s a rare type, kids like me. I was intelligent (for high school, anyway - I make no claims about being more intelligent than average as an adult lol), social and have ADHD. I went through the textbooks for the quarter in the first week and then it was either hill climb racing and temple run, or chatting to my classmates who needed to pay attention more than I did.
ah yes, why teach kids to use them responsibly when you can just ban them? that always works great
I feel like “using them responsibly” includes not using them in class
Because banning them works better.
If the school wants to teach responsible use, they can provide school-owned phones for use during coursework.
The problem is that if you have a class of 18 students and all of them are looking at their phones during a lecture or while doing practice problems, it is impossible to police behavior by differentiating who is taking notes and who is texting friends, or who is using a calculator app and who is using Wolfram Alpha. It’s much easier to just say “no phones” so the teacher can quickly identify who is taking notes (on paper) or using a calculator (that is a TI 83) versus the students trying to sneakily use their phone under their desk.
Restructuring the education system to not be a day care prison where chidren are desperate to do anything else would work better, but we don’t like it when the day care doesn’t keep our children locked up while we are at work.
I’d prefer not going to university and rather spend all my time having fun. But as an adult, I can more easily rationalize why I should spend my time doing the former. Children do not yet have this ability - I certainly didn’t and would probably not have attended school much if my parents didn’t care. Phones were banned at my school and definitely forced me to pay attention as learning is usually significantly more entertaining/rewarding than fruitlessly trying to distract yourself by staring at the clock.
Are you sure? I mean by about 5th or 6th grade, we’d all been taught that we needed to go to university to be successful. I for sure wanted to go to university!
I tried going to university twice, straight after high school and then again ~8 years later, flunked out for different reasons each time, and realized that it’s not even going to improve my career, at least now that I don’t want to move to the US for work anymore anyway. So adult me has realized I could’ve started doing more programming earlier instead of even going to high school, and probably I’d be more successful. But kid me was super excited about university, and so were most of my peers.
This varies so much. I know I got bored as hell in most classes. The problem with analog textbooks is that you can read ahead, there’s no lock saying “You can’t open this chapter until next week”. The problem with ADHD (in my case) is that you get super bored by the slow pace of class. End result is you run out of curriculum way before everyone else, and at that point it’s watching the clock, playing games on your phone, or socializing. Watching the clock is also boring. Leaves phone or socializing.
Besides, my curious ass spent half the phone time on games, half the time on reddit, and half the time on Wikipedia reading about things I found on reddit. Yes, three halves. I don’t know, I was never good at managing time. Somehow everything takes more and less than expected.
No matter what structure they’ll focus on what engages them the most, which is pretty much always going to be the digital dopamine drip feed in their pocket.
Boomer logic
Its not 2007 any more, we’ve had nearly 20 years to research this stuff and the results are pretty conclusive. Even a broken boomer is right twice a day 🤷
Can you teach someone to use heroin responsibly? I get what you mean but these devices are addicting af and disrupt focus.
What a deceitful comparison. Like it or not no one is living without a smartphone these days. Heroin is entirely optional.
How you use the device is what matters. I use my smartphone to read books for example, and on YouTube I watch a lot of informative content.
What’s addictive is the pre-installed social media apps on our smartphones, that is what needs to be regulated.
Wow, you sound much smarter and seem to have so much more self control than all of those dumb people getting addicted to their phones.
The problem is that at the moment the education ministries of EU member states can not regulate social media apps. We just had the identical discussion in Austria. They need to ban smartphone use in schools at the moment, because it’s the only legal route to get those teenagers away from social media during school hours.
but phone is not comparable to heroin. gaming or social media could be addicting. if sugar is addicting, do we ban shops? because shops sell sugary stuff (similar to phone providing the addictive thing)
We actually sorta tax sugary drinks, yeah.
When we identify something as addictive enough to be problematic, the government finds a suitable way to interrupt, slow, or even ban it, depending on what people are receptive to.
This is normal.
so tax social media and gaming, not the shop
Again, some countries do stuff like that. They put regulations on what addictive content games can have, like loot boxes. China has attempted to restrict how many hours citizens can play games (though there’s a lot of resistance to it).
Social media is even trickier because it’s so vaguely defined, and doesn’t involve payment to begin with. What’s the concept - “Please pay a 5c tax to view one page of posts”? Even so, government committees have taken social media companies to task for their algorithms promoting divisive content before.
Are you a child/young teen with a completely different brain structure than a mature adult? Do you have already have the media literacy needed to navigate disinfo and toxic content online?
Kids really are a different species, but have predictable development. For every kid that’s responsible enough to have unrestricted device access there’s 50 more who just aren’t mature enough yet. There’s a limit to how much you can coach responsibility into them
I think you get that by navigating disinfo and toxic content online, not by aging or going to school. Look at all the adults who believe everything they see online.
Personally I’m conflicted about using phones in class. Most kids shouldn’t. But there’s a rare type, kids like me. I was intelligent (for high school, anyway - I make no claims about being more intelligent than average as an adult lol), social and have ADHD. I went through the textbooks for the quarter in the first week and then it was either hill climb racing and temple run, or chatting to my classmates who needed to pay attention more than I did.
FTFY.