“Two dudes chilling in a hot tub, two feet apart cause they’re not racist.”
Would have been nice if one of them didn’t have to be a cop.
Technically that was a calculated movement of it’s time. They wanted a black character in a role that spoke to an easy childhood concept of authority to imply that power dynamically having black people in a dominant respected role in social spaces is a normal thing one doesn’t need to get upset over. Hence the whole friendly cop thing.
They were aware through the gay black actor they had in the role that police was something minority communities had issues with but the hope at the time was that more diversity in the force would be a solve. It’s naive from a modern standpoint but they did try.
It was sad that they purposefully kept the gay part of the actor’s identity under wraps. They knew they were asking him to do something harmful by keeping his private life strictly secret but the actor agreed that he was doing something he deemed worth the sacrifice.
Do you want them to cuddle?
ACAB
Just fuck off already.
One of the few times I’ll agree with your sentiment. There’s a time and place for ACAB. A fake cop on a kids show promoting racial equality is not one of them.
The .ml user only says ACAB when MLs arent in power. But when they call it “the people’s cop” it is somehow okay when they abuse power.
Remember, Mr Rogers was a good neighbor. He was also a marine scout sniper. He wouldn’t have put up with the shit that’s happening now.
…so this is some real pedantic shit I’m about to do here, and I apologize in advance, but that’s the wrong picture. François Clemmons was on the show between 1968 and 1993. The original episode where they share a pool aired in 1969, and both men were much younger. The picture above is from the Clemmons final appearance on the show in 1993, titled “Love,” where they again share a foot pool. I know this because my toddler has become Mr. Rodgers obsessed and I’ve seen the 1993 episode 3 dozen times in the last month.
*Me, a connoisseur of pedantry*: “Aww yes, that’s the good stuff”
It is gloriously pedantic, and it’s good to be specific! Thank you for the additional info. 🙂
1993 sounds about right, because I feel like I’ve seen it & it didn’t feel like an old or retro episode (neither was I thinking, “Why is that black man sharing a foot pool with a white man?” But I think my parents carefully explained why this was significant, what racism was (/is), and I thought it was ridiculous. Because it is.).
That’s a good obsession to have, raise them right. Mr. Rogers was a good role model with great messages.
Also, is this a meme?
I fucking hate you. Take your upvote.
Fair point, but that’s a question for the mods. If you want some obscure Mr. Rogers facts though, or theories on the Daniel Tiger timeline, I’m your guy.
I’d love some obscure facts about Mr. Rogers.
I grew up with him.
Mr. Rogers really wanted to encourage children’s imaginations, but he didn’t want them to confuse fantasy and reality. That’s why there’s such a strong delineation between his house and the Neighborhood of Make Believe. He also did more than one, “behind the scenes,” episode to show the neighborhood wasn’t real, and even mentioned on occasion that his, “house,” was just his, “television house,” where he would visit with the viewer, not his real house where he lived (which explains why he leaves at the end of every episode). When Big Bird was set to do a crossover episode, Rogers initially wanted the puppeteer to remove the costume and show children how it worked. The puppeteer didn’t want to destroy Big Bird for children, so they compromised by only having Big Bird visit the Neighborhood of Make Believe. However, there are two regular characters (Handyman Negri and Mr. McFeely) who appear in both the Neighborhood of Make Believe and the Mr Rogers house, which potentially blurs the line between real and make believe.
We need a motherfucking army of Mr Rogers and we need to airdrop them into every neighborhood in America.
In case they meet resistance, I strongly feel they should also have lightsabers.
Isn’t it amazing that ‘not lying to children’ somehow seems kinda radical?
True, but to be fair, if I’d been watching Mr. Rogers as a kid and Big Bird showed up, ripped his own head off, and revealed a middle-aged man hiding inside, I probably would have been traumatized.
True, but Mr. Rogers would probably know how to do it properly so that you’d be at ease.
The image misses part of the story. He was a character on the show, officer Clemmons, and wasn’t just on this episode. And what’s more, he was gay and Fred Rogers knew and accepted him for it at a time that that was uncommon. This image makes it seem like a single random act of impersonal kindness but it was much more than that.
Lovely interview with (Officer) Francois Clemmons. Clemmons grew up during civil rights unrest and was firehosed and beaten by cops and did not want to play one on TV. I don’t know if making kids less scared of cops was a good thing or not, but I know Mr. Rogers’ heart was in the right place.
The song at the end is the one Clemmons sang while they were hanging out in the pool the second time they did this scene 20 years after the first one: “There are many ways to say I love you.” In this one Mr. Rogers dried Officer Clemmons’ feet as they were getting out of the pool.
There’s a rapper named prof that did a pretty spot on Mr Roger’s imitation in one of his videos. They included a different take on this scene, but I had no idea that they were referencing an actual Mr Roger’s video with that part until just now.
Also better that he just played a cop, instead of actually being one
Classic Mr. Rogers story that when you dig deeper, it’s even more wholesome than initially presented.
It was 3
3 appearances?
You said it was more than a single act of kindness.
My joke is that it’s 3 acts of kindness, accepting him as a black, gay and a cop.
ACAB
All Children Are Beautiful. - Mr Rogers, probably.
That segregation, was that in the entire USA? How was it introduced for the entire USA when the North fought for the freedom of the black population?
Because the leaders of the confederate were allowed to live
Don’t get it twisted. There were plenty of people who were against slavery but still deeply racist. There was a big movement among abolitionists to send all the black folks back to Africa. That’s how Liberia was founded.
Yep, a lot of folks were racist and just pro-union.
That’s was not a terrible idea for the time. It backfired horrendously and the n US ignored the hell out of it l. Honestly, it was pretty much the history of Isreal
I think it was a terrible idea because it was just more colonization. Just like Israel it’s not like Liberia was just empty. There were more than enough resources for integration, they were just unevenly distributed, history of capitalism blah blah.
They pretty much believed in fucking magic at the time. There was more evidence that the two races were incompatible then there was a lot of other stupid things believed back then. Plus if you are going to fuck someone over it might as well be someone not in your country then someone who is. I guess. Still not good though.
The idea of “equal but separate” that ran from post-US civil war up the US civil rights movement will tell you as to why.
It really isn’t that simple. The north didn’t have as much strict segregation but in a way it was because they didn’t have to. Economic pressure reinforced by subversive hiring practices, prejudice in housing and hostile attitudes kept black communities tight knit and localized which meant you didn’t have to have specific “Colored schools” because they were created by these forces squeezing folks together into controllable blocks of population.
In the South the fall of segregation had a number of nasty fallouts which harmed black communities as well. When they merged the systems there was a historicly significant loss of black teachers. People got up in arms over really stupid questions like “What if my menstruating daughter had a black male teacher” and that prejudice ensured that a lot of the teachers who understood the challenges of being black in America were no longer in a position to help students.
This meant that effectively in the North segregated schooling continued to be a thing in practice but not in name while in the South it wiped out infrastructure that was helping black students succeed. It was handled incredibly poorly and was not unambiguously good but it did change a lot of the legal categorizations and is considered a win.
Is this AI? I don’t remember this scene looking anything like this. Also I believe it was an actor playing an officer, and Mr Roger was much younger.
No, they did it twice. This is from the later one:
And republicans have never forgiven him for this.
that’s cool, but where meme?
The meme is deep
Deep down in that shallow little pool.
Still an absolutely amazing bit of knowledge that was simply shared in the wrong place.
meme
/miːm/
noun
- A unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another.
- A self-propagating unit of cultural evolution having a resemblance to the gene by (the unit of genetics).
- A thought, idea, joke, or concept that spreads online, often virally. Can be in the form of an image, a video, an email, an animation, or music.
- A cultural unit (an idea or value or pattern of behavior) that is passed from one person to another by non-genetic means (as by imitation).
Almost exactly 56 years ago when Senators were cutting PBS budgets because they don’t understand the importance of childhood education and mental health
Oh trust me, they do understand the importance of education. That’s why they cut funding.
How can children get a well-rounded education without walls of ads?
No need, he only played a cop on the show, his real occupation was singer, actor & lecturer.
And he was a gay guy that Mr. Rogers shamed into staying closeted.
Precisely the opposite take to mine. He was gay and accepted by Fred Rogers when that was rare. And Fred later expressed remorse at telling him it would be best not to come out. The word “shamed” in your comment is not remotely fair either
Fair. Shamed probably is the wrong word and I shouldn’t purport to know about what actually went down aside from a possibly misremembered documentary I watched once.
Yeah. It was something that deserves some critique, but I think ultimately at that point in history, sadly, Rogers was right. It wouldn’t have gone well, in the shortterm at least
God that shit is dire. It was literally the best of two options and it was still bad. Coming out would have pit both of them in danger and got the show canceled. Fuck the 60s.
Was this the 60s?
In any case, the cultural revolution that gave us many modern tolerances and freedoms started then. Currently the conservatives are pushing back hard against most of that. The culture wars today are a backlash against the spirit of the sixties.
My dad was alive at the time and rolled with the freak crowd (LGBT, hippies, what would one day be called punks, etc )when he heard about that story he immediately said it made sense because “there were all lot of people who already wanted to string him up for his skin color, let alone being gay” with this really serious look on his face
He grew up in California, too, so yeah
Yeah, you gotta remember it’s 60 years later and we’re only just starting to see LGBTQ+ representation in kids media, and even now it comes with significant pushback.
Yeah. Only looking back from today can it stand any criticism at all. But that’s easy for us to do now
Much respect for introspection 👍
Context for those wondering.
Mr. Rogers stated that he had no problem with Clemmons being gay, but said he had to keep this secret for the sake of his show. It’s shitty and it doesn’t give context on exactly why Mr. Rogers told him this (except for the show being his dream that he didn’t want to jeopardize), but I think it was possibly related to the social climate of things at the time. The gay community was facing persecution also, so I think this was Mr. Rogers trying to weather a storm so that his show could persist and continue to help people. My theory is that he probably had bigoted folks in upper management that thought bringing a black and gay man onto the show was a bridge too far for them, and Mr. Rogers didn’t want to see his dream disappear.
In the end, it probably saved both of their careers, but it’s really terrible. It was also during times when folks stayed closeted in order to not lose everything they’ve built career and reputation-wise.
Wikipedia:
Remember that even into the 90’s Jerry Fallwell was having a meltdown because he thought the purple teletubby was gay. That Lance Bass or George Micheal or Ricky Martin didn’t feel safe coming out.
The way it comes across is at first some religious but good natured homophobia, but later an acknowledgement that you simply could not have an American children’s show at any point in the 60’s - 90’s with an openly gay man.
I love that Rogers supported Clemmons and truly had no issue with his sexual orientation. Rogers could’ve simply said to not be openly gay on his show, but he went as far as advising him for the long haul. If you read this as a single headline, it’s way too easy to misconstrue as homophobia, but the reality was that Rogers had a deep understanding of society and how to traverse it to survive and have a career in such socially chaotic times.
At some point, someone has to be the first person to come out or it never happens. The Stonewall Riots were a turning point in large part because they illustrated how The Closet could easily become a coffin LGBTQ folks were buried in, if they weren’t recognized as deserving the same civil rights as their straight peers.
Fred Rogers put the fate of the show and the careers involved ahead of the need for publicly accessible gay people. He wasn’t alone and the risks of coming out sooner were all real. But the consequence of a collective closeting of the community was the delaying of the fight for their civil rights for decades. It could further be argued that this mass closeting contributed to the deliberate foot-dragging by state and federal officials in addressing the AIDS epidemic.
I don’t know anyone over 40 who can’t name a family member or a friend who wasn’t lost to this horrifying disease. Huge swaths of the LGBTQ community were functionally exterminated by a national health system that undermined efforts to diagnose, treat, and develop cures for the disease. What ultimately outed so many gay men across the Americas and Europe was their obituary.
So it is hot, Mr Rogers and neighboring cop are cooling their feet. Can someone tell me why Mr Rogers is still wearing a sweater? Is he taking the name literally?
Can someone tell me why Mr Rogers is still wearing a sweater?
Because he’s Mr. Rogers.
Because it was cold out, but they both had insanely bad cases of athletes foot.
Some people just want to watch the world learn…
We need 100,000 more Mr. Rogers in the world. 1,000,000 more.
