• cm0002@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 month ago

    Basically, .ml Tankies (I don’t consider all .ml users to be Tankies just because they’re a .ml users) are authoritarian bootlickers “communists” pretending not to be who routinely deny the human rights violations of the CCP/Russia and hold them up as the gold standard. They refuse to recognize China, Russia and even NK as being authortarian regimes or if they do, its OK/Neccessary because it takes down the west/capitalism. If you have a historical fact that puts any of those countries in a bad light, they’ll probably deny it happend or is just “western propganda.”

    So they believe and spread things like the Russia narratives on Ukraine (When it happened they were parroting the whole “special military operation” thing, the current thing is that it was “just a diplomatic maneuver to bring Ukraine to the negotiating table”)

    Hex and Grad are very in your face about it, but .ml tends to be more subtle, often opting instead to remove dissenting comments and ban users before letting threads get out of control. So, as a result many instances defed from those 2.

    .ml is run by the head Lemmy devs who are, unfortunately, hardcore Tankies themselves and tend to enforce the Tankie mindset throughout with more subtlety through mod/admin action. Or allowing known propaganda outlets to fester

    You can check out [email protected] if you want to see some documentation of their actions, words and censoring. What I’ve linked here is but a mere sampling of what’s been collected there

  • emberpunk@lemmy.mlEnglish
    0·
    1 month ago

    I don’t know. I’m on ml. Something about ‘tankies’? I dont bother thinking about those cliques and ppl being so clique-y, and nor should anyone else. immature behaviour tbh, but I haven’t received any teasing for being on ml so I think it’s a minority of people who really dislike lefties maybe?

  • remotelove@lemmy.ca
    0·
    1 month ago

    Many (not all) ml users are fairly rabid when it comes to their own flavor of propaganda. If you ever casually chat with them on Lemmy, just understand that they have a completely different world view so don’t mention things related to politics, country borders, history, government structure, major battles during WW2, sparrow populations or what color the sky is and you should be fine.

  • Meldrik@lemmy.wtf
    0·
    1 month ago

    The problem is .ml’s rules are inconsistent. Criticism against China is put under the rule “be respectful”, but you can criticise any other nation or group, except for maybe Hezbollah.

    If they would just write it in the rules, like they did on their old PeerTube instance PeerTube.social, I wouldn’t mind.

    • cm0002@lemmy.world
      0·
      1 month ago

      Yea, on .ml as long as you’re in the in crowd you can say all pejoratives you want like “shitlib” and the most you’ll (maybe) get is a 24 hour ban, but if you say tankie you’ll get slapped with at least a 14 day ban

      • Rhoeri@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        1 month ago

        Ever notice how no mods ever moderate shit there? It’s just the two crybaby admins. Always. They rule that shithole with an iron fist. The ineffective local law is a limp, powerless prop that is overruled by authoritarians.

        Which is pretty ironic when you think about it.

    • Rhoeri@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      1 month ago

      Oh you can drag anyone through the mud there, and you can do it with as little respect as possible! Totally within the rules.

      But even if you politely disagree with the admins Russia/China bias, it’s an instant RuLe 1 violation.

    • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      0·
      1 month ago

      To be fair I’ve seen the exact same treatment in mods and admins from other places. Just changing the subjects.

      Just recently in a community I would not mention a mod started to straight up insulting me while pointing out how I was breaking the rules by not providing source for every word I wrote and the rules said that I must source my arguments. (Spoilers they didn’t back up their claims either, and went into a breakruling name-calling streak just to top it). And it was not on .ml or anything related.

      Power tripping mods be power tripping mods.

  • janNatan@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 month ago

    The developers who created Lemmy are leftists, and they run the lemmy.ml instance. The lemmy.ml (.ml is for Mali, btw) domain was chosen because ML can also stand for Marxist-Leninist.

    I’m not an expert on the subject, but lemmy.ml users are known for being tankies. People don’t like that.

    Some of you whipper snappers forget that those of us with really old accounts joined back when lemmy.ml was the most popular instance. I just like FOSS things.

    • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      I’m on ML because it is the dev’s instance, that’s it. Also, I dislike how .world is run.

      • Mac@mander.xyzEnglish
        0·
        1 month ago

        Yeah, it’s a shame that there are only two instances: .ml and .world

          • Mac@mander.xyzEnglish
            0·
            1 month ago

            Yeah, i was being facetious. I was here. lol

            I originally joined World like everyone else but pretty quickly left for Mander just to spread the load.
            Almost two years ago now!

      • remotelove@lemmy.ca
        0·
        1 month ago

        .ca is a bit more sane and not as authoritarian as .world or .ml. I don’t mind .world, but their admins are inconsistent, IMO

          • remotelove@lemmy.ca
            0·
            1 month ago

            Neither am I. However, I have seen one or two people on ca that claim it’s an instance “for Canadians”, but that isn’t the majority view.

            Canadian news is mild compared to other instances and their admins rock. They just did some good hardware updates and the instance is fairly reliable. 10/10, would recommend. The author of my client (Connect) is also on that instance, and I contribute a bit to that community as well.

            I could see some downsides if the occasional post in French would piss you off.

            • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
              0·
              1 month ago

              As a Canadian on .ca, I’d say it was made for Canadians, but others are more than welcome. It’s kind of like a nice park. Sure, it’s ours, but you don’t need our permission to come hang out.

              And now I kind of want to try out Connect.

            • Revan343@lemmy.ca
              0·
              1 month ago

              It’s “for Canadians” in that if you’re Canadian and joining Lemmy, lemmy.ca ought to be your default choice, but we welcome anyone that isn’t a shitbag

        • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
          0·
          1 month ago

          I am pretty anti-tankie. I’m even a mod at onehundredninetysix. The censorship of some words is kind of funny though.

        • mmddmm@lemm.ee
          0·
          1 month ago

          Or swearwords, or any word that is partially composed of a swearword. Or talk about people that are pro-China or pro-Russia engaging in any kind of bad behavior in other places that have no relation to ML.

          I’m sure the list continues, but I blocked them a while ago.

    • Banana@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      1 month ago

      At this point I’m not sure if they are tankies, or whether they’ve just been called tankies by people who call all leftists tankies.

      • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
        0·
        1 month ago

        I’m an anarchist, these people are the kind of genocide appreciators who call all dissenting leftists tankies

        • cm0002@lemmy.world
          0·
          1 month ago

          Nope, clear definition:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

          Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support or defend acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof.

        • Banana@sh.itjust.works
          0·
          1 month ago

          This makes sense.

          I do think “tankie” is the wrong word, as “bootlicker” sounds more apt since Russia hasn’t been communist since '91.

          • Encephalotrocity@biglemmowski.winEnglish
            0·
            1 month ago

            They’re definitely all about the communism too. I answered a post asking for any surviving examples of communism with “I think Cuba counts” and got banned Rule 1 IIRC.

            • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
              0·
              1 month ago

              That’s… distinctly NOT being about actual communism… that’s about being pro tankie propaganda…

        • Banana@sh.itjust.works
          0·
          1 month ago

          Good to know, I totally thought it was a pejorative term for people who supported Kruschev’s use of tanks, and I rarely see people talking about that so I was very confused.

          Note: this comment is dripping with sarcasm

          • AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.comEnglish
            0·
            1 month ago

            pejorative term for people who supported Kruschev’s use of tanks

            Funnily enough, didn’t it come out two weeks ago from JFK papers that the leader of the Hungarian Freedom Fighters of the Hungarian Revolution was on CIA bankroll? Wow, tankies have been vindicated etymologically? Who woulda thunk

            • Banana@sh.itjust.works
              0·
              1 month ago

              So does that mean the Hungarian revolution was engineered by the CIA? Like by the US government? I think that was suspected for a long time, but also that justifying the tankie view ignores a lot of nuance imo. Does “america bad” really justify the use of tanks? Was the Hungarian revolution really fascist even if some of the leadership was? Or was it simply an anti-authoritarian struggle for freedom and self-determination?

              Idk, I’m lacking in a lot of historical knowledge.

              • AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.comEnglish
                0·
                1 month ago

                The Hungarian Revolution didn’t need to be fascist to justify the use of tanks, but yes, the fact that Hungary suffered a US-supported coup is worthy of tanks. The horrors lived in Eastern Europe as a consequence of the dismantling of socialism in the name of “freedom” are unspeakable. Millions of lives lost to unemployment, alcoholism, lack of healthcare, suicide and a myriad more of reasons. Those don’t matter I guess, since they’re victims of capitalism.

                “America bad” by itself almost justifies the use of tanks. Joining the Western World in imperialism, unequal exchange and ultimately genocide, is a crime against humanity, and history books of the future will reflect this. History won’t be kind to those who exploited the billions of people of the global south for the selfish gain of a few capitalist overlord.

                • Banana@sh.itjust.works
                  0·
                  1 month ago

                  K I gotta bow out of this one, we’re getting into territory and history on which I am not educated or confident enough in my knowledge to discuss, also it’s a very controversial topic I don’t want to discuss on a public forum with people who don’t know me.

                  Sorry, I acknowledge that I asked a bunch of questions you are just answering lol. My fault!

                  Cheers, hope you have a lovely evening!

          • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
            0·
            1 month ago

            While those event was certain to cause some resentment of USSR/Russia, that hatred needs to persist long after Russia gave all of those countries liberation peacefully, and that all lies and diminishment becomes morally justified.

            Neo-Tankyism is all reality opposing maximization of Russophobia and Sinophobia for CIA/US empire subjugation of those who could benefit from non-US subjugation. It is a projection in protecting their programming no matter how evil the US is, or actively directly attacking them, because their programming has no factual defense.

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
          0·
          1 month ago

          I don’t think you know what communism is supposed to be if you think it is as evil as capitalism… (note I said supposed to be, not what ever language an authoritarian decides to couch their takeover in)

    • gigachad@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      1 month ago

      I cannot support an instance where criticism of countries like North Korea or Venezuela is sanctioned with 30 day bans, even defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine is tolerated. I love open source software and it breaks my heart, but I completely blocked .ml after multiple incidents I witnessed or was part of in the news and worldnews communities.

      Also I cannot really understand the argument of having an “old account”. All it means on Lemmy is having a year and a month in your profile. It is even a good idea to switch your account from time to time to stay more anonymous.

      • Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        0·
        1 month ago

        Yeah I made this account with my reddit username. Made another account that I’m building up with a dif username to be more anon and less attachment so more easily abandon able

    • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      The lemmy.ml (.ml is for Mali, btw) domain was chosen because ML can also stand for Marxist-Leninist.

      Do you have the developers actually claiming this, or only second hand information? I was under the impression that they chose .ml because they were handing those domains out for free.

      • janNatan@lemmy.ml
        0·
        1 month ago

        I have not verified the validity if those claims. I’ll edit the post to reflect that.

    • Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world
      0·
      1 month ago

      Also a lot of people just join a random popular instance at the start before looking into political shit like this, and they don’t want to switch later on.

    • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
      0·
      1 month ago

      Tankies aren’t real leftists. They’re morons who honor authority over freedom to the point they’ll suck off authoritarians from history. Basically (very, very basically), they’re the authoritarian “left”… as much as anyone who is rightly left honors undue authority…

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 month ago

        The problem is that y’all believe, that acknowledging many of the claims about those countries to be CIA hoaxes, is also somehow a declaration of approval of those countries policies.

        You may not like those countries, but you’re taking that to mean you have to personally adopt the position of defending the bullshit lies you’ve been told about them.

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
          0·
          18 days ago

          No, it’s really not that way, unless you’re a guilt-by-association simplifying dolt. One can be a communist and not like how China is ran nor have to defend it.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
            0·
            17 days ago

            In the same vein, one can criticize the actual way China is ran, rather than running with every western lie you’re told about China.

    • remotelove@lemmy.ca
      0·
      1 month ago

      I am confused now. I was just called a “leftist Nazi” and “liberal right wing nazi”. Lulz.

      My point is that I think the terms “leftist” and “liberal” have been redefined again, just as a heads up.

      • foggy@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 month ago

        It’s a weird situation. Billionaires successfully dissolved the left into factions of people who all in-fight over whether or not you’re allowed to say retard, or the n word (hey look I must be one of them). Identity politics. Really unimportant nonsense.

        They also successfully got the right to worship billionaires.

        Not to get too tin foil hat, but at this point I think it’s safe to say reddit was a psyop.

        • Stovetop@lemmy.world
          0·
          1 month ago

          Billionaires successfully dissolved the left into factions of people who all in-fight

          I think this goes all the way back. Leftist groups have been competing basically as long as there’s been a right and left. Going back to the OG “Left,” the French Revolutionaries, you see the Jacobins seize power from the monarchists, after which they start to eliminate competing revolutionary groups who have some ideological differences. In Russia, you’ve got the Mensheviks being eliminated by the Bolsheviks, and then the Trotskyists being eliminated by the Stalinists.

          Wherever there is a small difference in ideology and people willing to die for it, the left will always be at each other’s throats.

          On the other hand, I think the right keeps succeeding precisely because of identity politics: they unify under an identity instead of an ideology, or I guess maybe more specifically they succeed at turning identity into ideology. Identity politics are pushed by the right as a way of forming out-groups so that the majority can remain unified and always have a “them” to distract from what the ruling “us” is doing.

          • Jarix@lemmy.world
            0·
            1 month ago

            Wherever there is a small difference in ideology and people willing to die for it, the left will always be at each other’s throats

            I’ve been aware of this since i learned just how fractured religions get when they get enough followers.

            The human race is just not good with handling competing ideas and seemingly never has been.

            I think that’s why great unifying events/people captivate so many of our narratives

      • mmddmm@lemm.ee
        0·
        1 month ago

        Those terms don’t have definitions. People use them twice on the same phrase where each occurrence has a different meaning.

    • Ephera@lemmy.mlEnglish
      0·
      1 month ago

      Yeah, and them being trigger-happy with the ban hammer is why Lemmy exists at all today. All Reddit alternatives back then were Nazi hotpots, because pretty much only folks who got banned from Reddit joined the alternatives (and back then, Reddit moderation primarily concerned itself with Nazis).

      They would show up on dev.lemmy.ml, too, and “just ask questions”, like if an immigrant did a certain crime, would you want them deported?
      These questions served no point other than to drive the conversation tone to the right.
      And yeah, I was glad that the admins were always vigilant about that and immediately banned anyone asking such ‘questions’, even if it may have thrown legitimately curious folks under the bus, because it allowed proper conversations to exist.

      Of course, I have survivorship bias. I don’t concern myself with China or Russia nearly enough to have specific opinions about them.
      But when someone is not being intentionally intolerant, I am of the opinion that talking to them is worth it and the only way to help center opinions which one might perceive as extreme.
      But well, I also don’t concern myself with my admins nearly enough to have specific opinions about their opinions either. I don’t have to agree with everything they think, just because I’m on their instance, so I don’t care nearly as much as some other folks here.

      • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 month ago

        That doesn’t follow. Truth Social exists, is full of fascists, and is way bigger than Lemmy.

        If it weren’t for Reddit deciding to turn against their users in a very dramatic way, Lemmy would still just be a tiny leftist community rather than what it is now: a larger, but still small, mostly leftist, but slightly more centrist, mix of communities that fight all the time.

        I came over with the initial wave of Reddit refugees. Lemmy was quite bad back then, with a lot of crap I had to block. It’s better today but it still has a very long way to go.

  • ClipperDefiance@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    1 month ago

    Okay, so for some context .ml is run by the Lemmy devs and the devs are openly tankies (authoritarian communists). .ml, along with Lemmygrad (also run by the devs) and Hexbear are known as the Tankie Triad. While not as bad as the other two, .ml still has a lot of tankies compared to instances that aren’t part of the triad. Additionally, .ml used to be the recommended instance (until .world came along), making it one of the more populated instances. Most other instances defederate with Lemmygrad and Hexbear, but not necessarily .ml.

    Basically, there’s a lot of extremely opinionated and often combative people there and provoking them (intentionally or not) is very easy.

    That’s my understanding of the situation anyway.

  • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 month ago

    at this point i think you would be better off checking it out for a while and seeing if its for you.

  • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.orgEnglish
    0·
    1 month ago

    (Takes a deep breath, clears mind, gets into character)

    This meme format is a product capitalism, posted to a capitalist instance, and you should be ashamed. Instead of posting an image of a capitalist pig, why aren’t you out in the streets burning shit down??/? There’s no good capitalist. If you’re not out in the streets burning everything down, RIGHT NOW, you’re part of the problem! Rabble Rabble Rabble, guillotines, violence violence violence.

    In a nutshell, anyway. Or at least that’s how it was from users there on every 3rd post/comment before my instance finally defederated.

    • Lucy :3@feddit.org
      0·
      1 month ago

      The main problem is that any criticism of China is met with an instant ban, as per “Rule 1, 2”.

      • remotelove@lemmy.ca
        0·
        1 month ago

        Well, I was banned from ml because of a conversation on another instance. It was something about reporting all ml posts as a rule 1 violation… I guess that could be considered inciting unrest against the CCP and Mother Russia.

      • Pilferjinx@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 month ago

        Their ideology is inconsistent with their rhetoric. They do support capitalism and billionaires if it’s anti-west. I just poke a bit here and there with a bit of warning that it’s not east vs west but rather it’s rich vs poor.

    • Vegeta@lemmy.caOP
      0·
      1 month ago

      Oof. That is a lot to take in. Thank you for this; it all makes sense now.

      • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.orgEnglish
        0·
        1 month ago

        I mean, my example is over-simplified and slightly exaggerated (though not by much), and it just got old FAST. No idea if it’s still like that or if they’ve toned down as an instance, but I’ve been happy without them, so not gonna rock that particular boat.

  • Tieas@lemmy.mlEnglish
    0·
    1 month ago

    Wow that’s super interesting. I just signed up for Lemmy last month and I just googled what to sign up for and .Ml was the first one that came up. Fuck tankies and fuck commies so I guess I’m definitely going to get lumped into them for now. Oh well

  • calcopiritus@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 month ago

    You can see it for yourself.

    Write a comment/post critical of china in any community from the lemmy.ml instance.

    For example about the Uyghurs or the mass surveillance or whatever is your topic of choice.

    See how much time it takes for them to ban you/remove your comment under their rule of “no xenophobia”.