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…he’d’ve resoundingly trounced trump if the democratic party hadn’t conspired against him in 2016, but if he won the executive the democratic party would have done everything in their power to make sure his administration was as effectual as carter’s…
Problem with Dems - it’s still the party of the rich.
They try their hardest to direct the energy towards various more cultural issues as opposed to working people rights.
I can really see AOC as president. She’s already at the minimum age, but I would like to see her take another 5-10 years to learn how to broaden her appeal.
but I would like to see her take another 5-10 years to learn how to broaden her appeal.
This kind of “we’re not ready yet” mindset is what lets republicans eat our lunch again and again.
“Broadening appeal” is also dumb as fuck when the candidates that do run routinely get ~30% of the vote. They already don’t have “broad appeal.”
Stop playing into the ruling classes handbooks by giving up before we even begin.
It’s also pretty funny to say that she needs to “broaden her appeal” when she’s already drawing tens of thousands of people without even running a presidential campaign.
I want her to start running right now. Fascism is here, we can’t afford to wait.
So do I, but I wouldn’t expect her to win right now. Americans are too lazy to want change but they’ll want to be rescued from collapse. Things have to get a lot worse before enough fence-sitters will listen to her.
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We’ll have an election. North Korea has elections. My fear is we’ll have a Hungarian or Venezuelan style election.
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“Amazing! 95% of voters voted to give Donald Trump a third term in office!”
Do you think AOC would have a better chance at winning than… kamala harris?
AOC should try pandering to neo-conservatives. I’m sure that will work this time!
she’s spent her entire career broadening her appeal. She went from progressive, to progressive leaning dem, since she’s been in office.
The point is that she went from waitress to congress in 2 years - a giant achievement that at the same time gives her a “rookie” label. It’s not unreasonable that it will take a few more years to become seasoned enough for the presidency in mainstream voters’ minds.
As to her age, if she can learn to trust wise people around her, she can do much better than an old person with experience who only sees things their own way! For that reason it might be better to run soon if possible, to have the wisdom of Sanders with her. Hopefully there’s other wise people she trusts to mentior/advise her as well.
Her abilities aren’t the issue, the public’s perception is. I don’t think enough people will accept that she’s been on the scene long enough to be president.
what do you mean? like get some felonies first?
…just a little kiddie diddlin’ so mossad’s comfortable letting her on the inside track…
We don’t have 5-10 years.
we literally have 4 years until the next presidential election. so yeah we do.
4 years < 5-10 years
so we have 4 years but not 5-10?
Seems like an arbitrarily defined break point to me.
4 years isn’t arbitrary; it’s the soonest somebody can run for president.
At the speed this administration’s moving, we might not even have 2 years. We need people who can move quickly, and right now we have people who are barely moving at all.
yeah no shit, that was the argument i literally proposed. But you argued next 5-10 years. And like was previously said, 4 years is less than that.
At the speed this administration’s moving, we might not even have 2 years. We need people who can move quickly, and right now we have people who are barely moving at all.
move quickly to do what? Overthrow the US federal government? Good luck.
Found the project manager.
Assuming there are real elections in 5-10 years
I’m pretty excited by this AOC/Sanders team up. I’m sure neither are perfect, and will have ideas that I disagree with. But they both have a strong reputation for sticking up for ordinary people rather than the rich and powerful. And no reputation (that I’m aware of!) for bullying, blathering, giving in to the rich, sexual abuse, or miscellaneous awful behaviour.
And a team up between old and young is a powerful thing. Age brings wisdom, to spot things a young person might miss; and youth brings energy, understanding, and new ideas.
AOC for 2028? Judging by other comments, it seems unlikely. But AOC later? If they stay uncompromised, stick to the values that America wants without getting bogged down in things that divide the country, and gather support organically across the country rather than relying on traditional rich-people-funding, this could be an amazing victory!
Bernie rolled over like a dog for Hillary in 2016, so he does have some marks in giving in to the rich. He himself is also rich, owning multiple million dollar plus homes.
Not trying to be anti-Bernie, he’s great and pushing for great things. I was feeling the Bern back in 2016. But we should always go into things eyes open and as informed as we can be.
He has a net worth of 3 million dollars in his eighties. I get that he isn’t poor but that’s peanuts for someone that was likely getting property for pennies on the dollar compared to what property costs now days. Him having 3 million net worth in his eighties doesn’t make him rich, everyone else in America not having a clear path to have 3 million in net worth to show for their time and effort after a lifetime contributing to society to enjoy or pass on to their dependents or important causes is the failure.
I agree she would be amazing, but Bernie won’t be around long enough for that team-up. He’s already a year older than Biden. The Dems need to cultivate a lot more younger politicians. They should have been going hard at this years ago.
and will have ideas that I disagree with.
I honestly think this is code for, “I like what they do, but I hope they don’t raise my taxes.”
Also, “There’s no way they can have solutions that are better than mine!”
And no reputation (that I’m aware of!) for bullying
Ask Jill Stein about that.
AOC for 2028? Judging by other comments, it seems unlikely.
Well, right now it seems unlikely that Trump will ever leave the White House under any circumstances. I don’t think you properly appreciate what’s going on here. If even a centrist like AOC still makes you go “Hhhmmm, I’m not sure if she’s ready yet…maybe another cycle or two…” while the country dives head-first into fascism, I don’t know what’s going to wake you up. Probably nothing.
The worst part is that Republicans unironically believe that these are all paid actors.
Bernie does UBI at 11.
Cranberry juice bro. Feel the burn.
No, that’s UTI. What you’re thinking of is the common abbreviation for the biggest college in the smallest US state.
Are you thinking of Andrew Yang? Bernie doesn’t support UBI.
It’s a joke; I was saying that by giving people a cushy job such as attending his rallies all over the country he’d be basically implementing UBI.
Ah, I just misunderstood.
How can I sign up for that job?
Digging into who is actually paying them is a fun road to go down as well. They can’t answer. When the democrats were in charge, they’d be paid for by the government!
Now that Trump is in charge, they can’t say that anymore! So they’ll move onto another scapegoat such as Bill Gates, or NASA (and ignore that NASA gets funds from the government).
I don’t think facts or lack of evidence has ever gotten in their way before. They will just say it’s George Soros. Or they will point to fake craigslist posts which can be created by anyone.
Even then, I feel like you could just say “Oh, great, so now that Trump’s in charge, he can investigate George Soros’ finances, right?”
“It was fauci and the chemtrails”
They can say George Soros or Bill Gates, pretty common namedrops on conservative media.
Cool, now win an election
DNC:
The best we can do is normalize Trumpism. Now, for what’s important, how many more terms can we keep Schumer?
It’s wild to me that democrats by and large haven’t realized that the DNC is holding them back. I’ll never forgive them for picking Hillary over Bernie. How different would things be now if Bernie had been the nominee?
I’m still in favor of many individual Democratic candidates even if many people are waking up to the misuse of power at the top.
A lot of people are wowed by their theoretical policies, and then decide to run as candidates under their platform. Very few of their politicians ever get “A Crash Course In How To Appeal To Money” as a result of that allegiance. So unless anyone wants to suggest kinks in this plan, we can hate the institution democrats and still support the progressive democrats; and I think there are far more of the latter than the former. It just means people facing a local election have to actually read through someone’s life story, as opposed to “Oh, they’re the Democrat? Great, then them.”
The Republican Party also went through a similar transition (for the worse) as Trump took it over.
the gop cant win without TRUMP, or his endorsement.
I’d take a look at the workings of Scientology, invented by L. Ron Hubbard. Even long after the founder’s death, and his admission that it was a gigantic hoax, the cult kept going for a long time. I’d find it likely many in the GOP could invent a platform “in Donald Trump’s memory”.
The worries shift and become clearer once it’s made apparent that it’s a cult.
That’s like assigning arriving patients at the ER their own room and asking them to report their self-diagnosis and treatment back to the front desk.
The DNC cannot fix itself. The system has evolved this way because the money flowing to DNC has allowed them to remain powerful but not challenging the power structure.
The approval rating of the Democratic Party has dropped to a record low. People are seeing the grift.
I think you’re giving the DNC too much credit. They didn’t “pick” Hillary…she cheated and colluded with Debbie Wasserman Schultz to steal the nomination from Bernie.
Well, they are sitting members of the legislative branch.
Don’t threaten me with a good time, buddy
If only this turn out had actually opposed trump at the polls
so when does the revolution start?
when things actually start happening.
Until then, nobody cares.
If you’ve ever wondered why hitler got so far, this is why.
when things actually start happening.
gestures broadly
Things like American citizens being deported to foreign prisons when they have not committed a crime?
Travellers with legal visas at the border being imprisoned and tortured instead of just turned away?
Private citizen data being stolen from government facilities while federal employees are illegally terminated from their jobs?
States being threatened with loss of funding until the King gets a personal apology up to his standards?What things are you waiting for?
is there actually evidence of them being tortured?
Illegally detained sure. The worst thing that’s happening right now is the deportation stuff, but we’ve done this before, multiple times. Notably with the japanese.
It’s not good, don’t get me wrong, but we’ve done it before, and came back from it once. All of this shit is also being challenged by the judicial branch, whenever it gets off of its ass that is.
most of these things haven’t gone through fully, or are being immediately responded to with lawsuits. USAID for example. Immediately overturned in court.
Eagles said the detainees at the San Luis facility have no sleeping mats or blankets or windows, and the lights are on all day and night.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/canadian-detained-us-border-1.7483021
Now we could quibble about the degree of torture, but then we would be arguing about how much torture is acceptable for someone who had a visa, a job in the US, and was apprehended at the border instead of just denied entry.
And again I ask, what specific things need to happen before people will start doing something about it?
i’m not sure that’s necessarily torture, inhumane conditions for sure.
The worst one in that case is lights being on 24/7 and no sleeping arrangements. But it’s also not clear how long people are being held either.
Speaking to CBC News earlier Thursday, Jasmine’s mother, Alexis Eagles, said her daughter — who grew up in Yukon and had been living in B.C. until last year — was being detained at the San Luis Regional Detention Center after she recently tried to enter the U.S. from Mexico.
she’s canadian, visiting canada, and entered the US through mexico? Ok, so it looks like she tried to enter at the canadian border, her visa was revoked, she tried to then enter through the mexican border for some reason, after having her visa already revoked. Seems questionable and like a stupid decision to me, and even her mother seems to agree with that.
and was apprehended at the border instead of just denied entry.
i would assume that revoking a visa, is a denial of entry, especially since this literally happened at the canadian border, so maybe you want to read up a little bit on that one again.
And again I ask, what specific things need to happen before people will start doing something about it?
i don’t know, good question, it’s the hard question to answer here. The judicial branch has already done something about it. It’s definitionally illegal, it’s just a matter of it being escalated to the scotus, and hoping they side with the law.
i’m not sure that’s necessarily torture, inhumane conditions for sure.
As I said, your quibbling over the definition of torture, ignoring the actual issue here: is this “inhumane treatment” appropriate for someone who hasn’t been charged with a crime?
But it’s also not clear how long people are being held either
She was held for 11 days, it’s in the first paragraph.
i would assume that revoking a visa, is a denial of entry,
"She attempted to return to the States with the new visa
I would assume being granted a new visa is a statement that "it’s okay to come back now’.
The judicial branch has already done something about it. It’s definitionally illegal
And no one is listening to them.
the scotus, and hoping they side with the law.
The same SCOTUS that already ruled that Trump can not be charged with a crime? If they side with these illegal actions will that be reason to act? Or will the response be “The Court says this is legal so I guess it’s fine.”
They are boiling the frog slowly. If you were asked a year ago if everything that’s happening now would be cause to do something and start protesting most people would have said “of course!” But somehow by the time the US got here people are still saying “we’ll protest when things actually start happening”.
People who have committed no crimes are being detained with no charges in inhumane conditions for weeks, and everyone in a position of power is fine with this. So I continue to ask you name something that if it were to happen it would definately be time for Americans to do something. It doesn’t have to be the exact line in the sand, it can be something that “we should be protesting before this happens, but if it has gotten to this point we definately should be opposing it.”
Holding people in inhumane conditions isn’t enough.
Denying reporters access to the country because they have been critical of Trump in the past isn’t enough.
Deporting American citizens to foreign prisons isn’t enough.
The fact that a judge said they can’t deport American citizens to foreign prisons and they still did it anyway isn’t enough.So what is enough?
As I said, your quibbling over the definition of torture, ignoring the actual issue here: is this “inhumane treatment” appropriate for someone who hasn’t been charged with a crime?
it’s the capital punishment system, it’s highly inhumane from bottom to top, idk what you want me to tell you, or why this is even surprising to you. This was a bad idea, and her mother evidently must’ve told her it was, and she didn’t listen.
She was held for 11 days, it’s in the first paragraph.
that doesn’t specify whether it was in that specific facility or not. She could’ve been moved a few times by that point.
In a Facebook post, Eagles said Jasmine was held at the San Ysidro border crossing for three days after she tried to enter the U.S. on March 3, and was then moved to San Diego before she and others were “forcibly removed from their cells at 3 a.m.” and sent to the Arizona facility around March 9.
oops, she was moved, multiple times.
Eagles is less clear on what happened next, but said that Mooney then got “some sort of consulting visa application.”
“She attempted to return to the States with the new visa, and she had already been flagged so they just detained her,” Eagles said.
it’s not clear how she obtained this visa, and the fact that she went all the way to the southern border? Is patently suspicious, why wouldn’t you just go back to the northern border if it was a basic clerical issue? Especially knowing that the politics around the southern border are bad right now. It really seems like she was trying to be held in captivity at this point.
I would assume being granted a new visa is a statement that "it’s okay to come back now’.
and presumably also through the same border as last time, preferably even the same processing point. I mean this just seems like an objectively bad judgement call to me.
And no one is listening to them.
yeah that’s the problem, the executive is just doing their own thing, illegally. We either have to wait for them to listen to the judicial, or for it to make it’s way to scotus, where it should get interesting. Scotus doesn’t have a defined right leaning ruling just yet, so it’s hard to say how they would lean here. But a lot of what the trump admin is doing is explicitly unconstitutional and a huge misreading of the power granted to them.
The same SCOTUS that already ruled that Trump can not be charged with a crime? If they side with these illegal actions will that be reason to act? Or will the response be “The Court says this is legal so I guess it’s fine.”
and that was an objectively bad and corrupt ruling by scotus, the problem is that we have no means to act upon it, other than complaining about it. If they rule in favor, then i guess we have to figure out what to do from there. And it doesn’t look like we have many options unfortunately. But i’m at least semi hopeful they will rule against it, because it’s patently unconstitutional.
They are boiling the frog slowly. If you were asked a year ago if everything that’s happening now would be cause to do something and start protesting most people would have said “of course!” But somehow by the time the US got here people are still saying “we’ll protest when things actually start happening”.
were people protesting the same time last year? I know there were some big protests over some of the big problems. But fundamentally, people don’t care unless their way of life is directly affected materially. That’s just the truth of it. There’s no way around that, no amount of yelling at people angrily on lemmy or twitter is going to make people care. It’s when they and their family starts starving that drastic things happen. This is a well understood phenomenon.
People who have committed no crimes are being detained with no charges in inhumane conditions for weeks, and everyone in a position of power is fine with this. So I continue to ask you name something that if it were to happen it would definately be time for Americans to do something. It doesn’t have to be the exact line in the sand, it can be something that “we should be protesting before this happens, but if it has gotten to this point we definately should be opposing it.”
to be clear, the biggest illegal parts of this aren’t what’s mentioned here. Detaining people without explicit cause isn’t necessarily illegal, though you can’t hold them indefinitely either, so it’s more complicated there. But the two biggest problems are the deportations to places like el salvador, without any due process over it, as defined by previous precedent, and the fact that people aren’t even being fairly tried for these crimes they’re committing, before being handed over. Whether or not they did it is irrelevant, this is a blatant miscarriage of justice.
Anybody should be able to agree with this. I’m fairly sure there are several protests happening over this already, and if there aren’t idk why. Oh and btw, not everybody in power is ok with this, a lot of congress is against this, evidently, and the judicial branch in particular seems to be pretty against it. The legislative i don’t think exists anymore. SCOTUS is probably the most problematic of all of these.
Holding people in inhumane conditions isn’t enough. Denying reporters access to the country because they have been critical of Trump in the past isn’t enough. Deporting American citizens to foreign prisons isn’t enough. The fact that a judge said they can’t deport American citizens to foreign prisons and they still did it anyway isn’t enough.
all of these things are bad. I don’t disagree, but i also don’t know what you want me to do about this, i voted for kamala, evidently not a lot of people did for some reason. So it doesn’t seem like it’s my problem. Seems to be everyone elses problem, since they have no idea what’s happening.
So what is enough?
idk it depends on what you’re doing. If you’re talking completely overthrowing government, that’s clearly outlined to be when it hits the bottom line of everyday people. That’s just how it is. If you’re talking protesting, that’s a lot easier, and a lot of people are doing it, but a lot of people also aren’t really in a position to protest either.
America isn’t going to have a revolution. Modern Americans couldn’t revolution our way out of a Walmart. Best we might be able to do is a collapse, and we’ll blame it on everybody in the world but ourselves.
America doesn’t need a revolution, a simple general strike will remind the capitalist bastards that they rely on us, not the other way around.
then what are you waiting for?
Americans haven’t given up their consumerism, so a general strike is out of the question.
They need money for subscribing to digital entertainment they can be getting for free and to order food with delivery apps at 100% markup.
This generation sucks.
lol imagine not receiving your pay because you went on a strike
I’m Australian. We have mandatory voting, which makes it almost impossible for a nutjob like Trump to take control here.
same, I meant what are they waiting for
But we do have little to no independent media, which does help Dutton and his cohorts (Trumpets of Patriots or some nonsense) convince people to put in donkey votes at best and vote for them at worst. All they need is a majority in parliament to push the crazy.
say the literal acts you want Americans to do or you’re even more cowardly than we are. ICE can’t disappear you if you’re in europe, you don’t need to mince words
here you go:
Slowly. Luigi was a good start.
If Americans want to revolt, they’ll have to do it in the shadows.
Any common man can kill a rich person. No organized resistance is required, and any organized resistance is going to be infiltrated by the FBI and shut down before anything significant happens.
It would be neat if the heroes that kill our oppressors end up getting social media famous as they do it.
Okay, 34,000 people gathered together for their cause, and then what? What did they actually do?
Did they use the opportunity to communicate and organise themselves, set concrete goals and choose the leaders of their movement that could execute on these goals with their support? Did they all leave with an understanding of what their next actionable steps towards their goals would be?
I look at this a bit like a work meeting in a way, you’ve gathered people together but if all they’re accomplishing is hanging out patting each other on the back for agreeing with each other for a few hours then wrapping up, that’s a pointless meeting.
They need to have a command structure, an organised plan, and a goal with concrete next steps to try to work towards it.
34,000 people took time off work, away from their families, etc, to travel there for something they’re very passionate about, you’d think they’d use that time with their allies wisely and constructively, right?
Given that the media isn’t on their side, just showing up in large numbers to mill about for a bit isn’t going to make big waves, it’ll be quietly reported on and immediately forgotten by those not already a part of their cause. Protesting just isn’t going to cut it. Not until 34,000 becomes 3,400,000 anyway.
But it’s still a great opportunity to build your new movement. Imagine if all those people had gone home knowing who is in charge, what the chain of command is (it’s not like everyone can liaise with the movement’s leader directly all the time, you need a structure to your movement/organisation), and imagine if they had a concrete plan of actionable things they can do before the next meetup (which should have been set by those leading at lower parts of the organisation - don’t leave an important meeting without knowing when your next check-in will be).
Imagine what they could do if they really, actually organised for effective action, instead of just harmlessly protesting.
They have so much power, they’ve just never been taught how to wield it.
👆 Room temperature IQ take.
This is the opposite of a headless mob with no goals. This is an explicit show of support for these politicians and their platform. The goal is to elevate the message both generally and within the Democratic party.
If nobody shows up to support it then the top brass can ignore them. The large crowds force the issue, it’s a de facto primary on policy. Suppressing and ignoring the issue is a bad look. It only works if opposition doesn’t reach a critical mass to tip the scales.
The exact same thing happened when Trump hijacked the Republican party. Opposition Republicans were faced with getting on board or losing on a split ticket, and suddenly every primary at every level was a MAGA-off
This reminds me of the “Why aren’t people protesting?” comments, ignoring that people…are.
The consistency of protests and town halls even in red districts has indicated to me that people are attuned and active, even if the news cannot (and in some cases refuses to) fully cover every square inch of their actions. As many have said, “The revolution will not be televised.”
it’s like the tech industry developed an AI for self-driving goal posts
afaik every person there bought a gun and joined the Soup And Rifles Collective on the way home. the entire state has declared open rebellion, the ICE facility (GEO group owned) in aurora has been broken open and the captives reunited with their families. throughout the streets Les Miserables is heard and the revolutionary council has elected a spokeswoman to bring their demands to Washington. all from one rally! i really think they could’ve done more but we’ll see what next weekend holds
Yes keep it going we need people to show out
fwiw this is what I’ve been saying since November. Just have Bernie and AOC tell us which way to jump. Then - we do that.
No Joe Biden is the incumbent he is clearly the best candidate.
They need to organized this momentum into a proper party, maybe call it the labor party or the progress party. But most importantly they need to not be scared to use actural leftist rhetoric and appeal to class conscious workers.
What about Working Families party?
Tbh I dont really take them seriously
Bernie is already third party
Why does nobody know anything about American Politics, including the Americans…
He’s independent, meaning no party
Because hundreds of millions of dollars are spent to make real information seem as confusing and boring as possible
Now, this? This is hilarious right here.
Some people think independent is a party. Like the Independent Party. Pretty silly but yeah. That’s why I changed from telling people I was independent to saying I’m unaffiliated with any party.
Disagree. There are a huge number of republican working class that need representation, and who are not the enemy.
The anti-1% party is a much more viable proposition than going left vs right.
Anti-1% is left vs right
I don’t believe this is true, the right won the last election but people outside the 1% voted for Trump.
You don’t have to be the 1% to vote for them.
Leftism literally originates from replacing monarchy and aristocracy with democracy, fighting the 1% is leftism.
Show me the conservative critique of billionaires. I know how that works on the left, but the right is about preserving power structures
billionaires Don’t Share Our Values™️
QED
Unless one of your values is to take wealth from those that don’t share your values, this is not a critique that will lead to meaningful corrections. I guess that could be a conservative value, but now you’re just doing identity politics.
The Democrats tried that, they tried appealing to the mythical “centrist conservative” and look where that got them, it has been proven to be a failing strategy. We dont need another “bipartisan” Democrat-like party, we need a workers party.
I’m trying to say that process is made by classifying voters in terms other than left/center/right.
There are only two political classes, those who are class conscious and those who are not. It matters not what word they’re called, only that as many people became class conscious as possible.
I can’t disagree with your definition, but I can’t believe people who are not class conscious always vote republican.
Sometimes they vote Democrat
I mean, I would love that, but if we start running a third party in national elections against the Democrats and Republicans from the left, the Republicans will win even more. If we can’t get FPTP changed I’m afraid the only option I can see is to destroy and rebuild the Democrats.
Well I guess there’s a possibility that when Trump dies the Republicans implode. I’d love to see it but their voters always toe the line. I think this time it will be whoever right wing media decides are the new bosses.
Like Democrats, many Republicans are just voting for the “lesser evil” and aren’t really loyal to their party. They just hate Democrats.
A new party sidesteps and allows those “lesser evil” Republican working class voters to jump ship. They will not ever vote for a Democrat, so stop being Democrats.
This idea is so simple, and the idea of it changing the course of history would be such a dumb-timeline thing, that I am 100% convinced it would work.
It would give them the ability to talk some harsh shit on Democrats, which could work on some Republicans. But I’d still worry that the effectiveness of their propaganda machine and the tendency of conservatives to fall in line and do as they’re told would spoil it.
Onward Together Party
EverForward Party
Inspired Collaboration Party
Positive Frontier Party
TBF Bernie has attended larger rallies, spoken at them for sure, although possibly not organized or been the central focus of one.
Democrats: Here’s how Harris can still win!
Progressives: Well, we all showed up at the same place at the same time. Did we win?
I’m educated enough in American politics to understand elusive news about Musk ans Trump but about not that Bernie guy. Is that a first or last name and what was the point of the rally? Also is a rally like a démonstration?
It’s a first name. He’s a politician somewhere between PS and UDI on the spectrum, so for Americans he is an extreme radical leftist, for normal people a basically sensible centrist with some heart. Has a cult following for a long time, seems like a nice guy probably.
A rally is like a demonstration but with establishment politicians speaking.
so for Americans he is an extreme radical leftist
literally only right wingers would call him that.
That description is a bit tongue in cheek, but most Americans would call him far left or whatever they think is a non pejorative way to say the same thing. Just look at this very thread, you have people calling him a socialist and “truly left”, they are not right wingers, or at least they wouldn’t think of themselves that way, and you probably wouldn’t either. And like, yeah, he has some lefty ideas, but globally speaking he runs a pretty centrist platform. I guess it’s necessary in America, supporting trade unions and healthcare is as far left as you can go, maybe his personal views are a bit better and it is just a calculation.
…which are essentially the entire electorate and media apparatus supporting both parties…
Bernie Sanders is a Senator for the state of Vermont. Be has run for president and went pretty far on a socialist platform. Far enough that when you refer to him by his first name while discussing politics, just about every American knows who you are talking about. If there is a truly left wing politician in American government, it’s Bernie. And while it doesn’t say a lot about the state of things, it does say quite a bit that so many people showed up to hear him speak.
LOL socialist
FIGHT!
MAGA = Y’all are f✓cking re+ards!
Musk = POS Nazi.
The left makes fun of Trump for bragging about crowd size. Can we not do this please? I don’t give a shit about the size of your rally; what are you going to actually do to take the country back from oligarchs?
I think the important difference is that they actually compared it to other crowd sizes that (may or may not, I haven’t looked) actually were smaller, like “largest in Denver” and “larger than the DNC”
Versus just claiming something then have it be demonstrably false, “I have the biggest crowd in the history of the world” or something along those lines
The important part is the organization, and showing there are people that can/will do something, then we can figure out what to do next
The DNC has been “figuring out what to do next” for decades.
No, the making fun is when he pretends to have the largest crowd that has ever gathered.
No one says that crowd size is unimportant or without impact.
The left makes fun of Trump for bragging about crowd size.
Yeah that’s when it’s Republicans doing it; when it’s a center-left rally it’s a “demonstration of opposition” or “show of force”.
what are you going to actually do to take the country back from oligarchs?
Nothing, the answer is nothing. Bernie is going to do nothing because for all the good he’s done the progressive movement he’s still Bernie; this is how he’s always done things and he’s not going to change now.
lol, hilarious stance to take in this moment
Why?
I am not going to defend Bernie Sanders past a certain point here, I fundamentally agree with any criticism of the U.S. left in terms of impact and willingness to appear “radical” to the status quo media narrative for decades but also… Bernie Sanders has been INCREDIBLY influential as a politician both in terms of practical across the isle legislation created and passed but more importantly in dropkicking the Overton Window over the fence and at least into very very moderate european style “socialist” politics.
We need more than just Bernie Sanders and AOC, we can’t rely on them, but they are extremely effective at what they do, I constantly hear young, driven, effective progressive activists cite Bernie Sanders as the person that first set them on the path to where they are now, even if their politics have since become much more leftist than Bernie’s lane ( and no… “radical” these people may be labeled, before anyone says shit these people are always obviously driven by a kindness and desire for better lives for all USians ) Bernie Sanders gets people to take a second look at leftist politics purely on the basis of the consistency and genuine integrity Bernie has vs. basically every other politician in U.S. politics… which isn’t to defend Bernie as somehow a virtuous figure, the bar is just insanely low for U.S. politicians especially in the wake of Citizens United opening up the floodgates to dark money warping politics in the U.S. to an extreme degree…
…something that no other figure in U.S. politics (or media in general for that matter) has more effectively raised awareness about than Bernie F’king Sanders by the way!!!
To right now say that Bernie and AOC are ineffective and will continue to be ineffective is probably the most obviously incorrect moment to do so I can possibly think of during the span of… my entire life?
To right now say that Bernie and AOC are ineffective and will continue to be ineffective is probably the most obviously incorrect moment to do so I can possibly think of during the span of… my entire life?
You misunderstood me then, so I’ll rephrase: Bernie is effective at what he does (AOC less so, but same difference), but what Bernie does is not lead a movement. He talks, he inspires, but he doesn’t act. He has his place, but that place is not as the leader of a political movement and absolutely not as the leader of a resistance movement. That’s what I’m trying to say here; Bernie will not suggest effective methods of resistance because they go against what he, at the core, stands for. Someone else needs to become the leader the progressive movement needs to hit the streets and take back America, because simply Bernie won’t cut it.
I could not disagree more, I think Bernie is the rare movement leader who understands that as egoecentric as they are (must be to be a politician?) that in terms of raw power, time you spend stoking a movement based on ideas and desired results pays back in future gains FAR MORE vs. focusing on cultivating the strength, charisma and cultural relevancy of certain political leaders to make them into the superheroes we need to save us…
…most people in the U.S are ready to vote for anybody but Trump so long as they don’t perceive that figure is part of an ossified Democratic establishment that is barely better than Republicans at times.
In this environment, Bernie’s strategy of always emphasizing his ideas and policy visions over his specific character or genius was wise or perhaps really the only realistic play given the political realities somewhat leftist figures like Bernie Sanders face at the national level in the U.S.
It is the opposite of the Trump strategy of trying to forge cultural figures that motivate people based on who they are as characters in a cultural landscape of grievances or perceived threats.
For this reason conservatism has utterly failed to do anything other than motivate ignorant people into violent beliefs while progressivism has radically reshaped what is possible in political conversation in the U.S., what younger people believe is possible for our future in the U.S., and brought legions of semi-informed voters into a practice of focusing on, critiquing and discussing policy as if they were working in politics and knew all of the specifics because they had to.
time you spend stoking a movement based on ideas and desired results pays back in future gains FAR MORE vs. focusing on cultivating the strength, charisma and cultural relevancy of certain political leaders to make them into the superheroes we need to save us…
So here’s the thing: Leaders and agitators are different. Bernie is an agitator; he helps radicalize people and show them the light, so to speak. That’s one thing, but it’s not leadership; it completely ignores the people who already see the light and want to reach it, because to those people Bernie only says “ask politely but firmly for it to come to you”. An effective leader will turn to those people and say something along the lines of “walk” or “run”. Note that the leader doesn’t need to be one person, but something resembling executive leadership needs to exist. I’ll also add that you say “future gains,” but at this rate by the time those future gains come back America will be fully fascist and it’ll be too late. Action needs to be taken now, alongside agitation efforts. There’s more than enough energy for this already, and that energy needs to be harnessed before it dissipates into willfully ignorant apathy, because that’s what happens when a movement is concerned too much with lofty ideals and too little with concrete action and material results.
Can you not do this please? I don’t give a shit about what you think about the size of rallies; and are you really trying to apply arbitrary tolerance policies onto the very people who are attending rallies and showing their frustration about what’s happening?
How is it possible to be so fucking stupid?
Keep in mind, Lemmy’s big enough to have malicious actors on it.
arbitrary tolerance policies onto the very people who are attending rallies and showing their frustration about what’s happening?
What? I think it’s clear their frustration is with the progressive movement, headed by Bernie himself, celebrating the tour as the end all be all of resistance when quite frankly nothing of note is happening.
