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“What are you going to do vote for the facists?”
–stays home
“Wait…”
(In all seriousness, the two party system killed us. The first thing we should have could have fixed was ranked choice voting but they would never mandate that because it would break their hold. Also despite my joke above I did vote but I’m not going to get pissy with someone that didn’t the problem is the party not the voter. Unless they voter actively voted red.)
Or, you know, be the party that at least promises popular things, instead of the party that just exists in idle opposition.
At least we’ll never have to worry about Dems after 2026. Maybe some better parties can take hold
Right? All they had to do was promise to Legalize weed, increase the minimum wage, put caps on rent increases, go after shrinkflation, make it easier to vote, say that healthcare is a human right, fight for unions, promise to help support people who currently can’t afford to buy homes to be able to buy homes, and tax the rich and corporations more.
Oh wait, Harris did all of those things. Democrats have had progressive policy, but voters keep voting against it. Because Democrats have to be perfect and cant also happen to have a couple shit policies. The moment they have a couple shitty policies, or don’t have all the progressive policies people want. those are all that matter and that means Democrats are just the same as Republicans.
The problem is they’ve been promising that for two decades.
They’re great at saying things, sometimes, to specific outlet while saying the opposite to their donors and other outlets. But they’re terrible at doing anything. At all. After decades of lies, after decades of trying to push them left… The Harris campaign paid partial lip service and promised what Obama did in 2008.
Also no, Dems are the same as Republicans because their goals, based on their actions and voting records, are exactly the same. Make rich people more rich, bust unions, keep the poor poor.
I was with you until you went all “both sides”. Dems fucking suck, they’re inauthentic, corrupt leaches, but the last 6 weeks alone ought to be plenty enough to prove that the repubs are whole other animal. These are officially Nazi’s we’re dealing with.
And the Dems hold up tiny signs in protest rather than actually do anything
The Dems don’t care and won’t fight so they’re functionally the same
By that logic, what are you? The same? I don’t know you but you sure as fuck ain’t Luigi. What makes your tiny actions so much greater than a protesters?
They’ve increased taxes in 2009 in response to the crash, they’ve done investment in infrastructure. They’ve passed the first climate change legislation ever in this country. They increased the minimum wage in 2009 and tried to again. They did actual shit for the 4 years of the last 2 decades they’ve had full power to do anything. But then voters vote them out because they don’t do everything they intended to.
They need do more, but they need full power to do that. Whenever they get that they do shit. But it’s impossible to do shit when Republicans control one house of Congress kneecapping everything they want to do.
Also they are incredibly different. One of them wants to increase the minimum wage, the other wants to get rid of it. One of them wants to make sure queer folk are allowed to exist in public and have rights, the other wants to put us in prison and take away our right to exist at all. One of them wants to bust monopolies and the other wants more monopolies. One of them wants to increase social safety net benefits, the other wants to get rid of it. One of them wants to tax the rich, the other wants no federal income tax at all. One of them believes that voting should be easy and the other wants to make voting impossible.
They’ve passed plenty of bills that end up dying because of Republicans, you’re blaming Democrats for Republicans being the problem and saying they’re the same. You’re being reductive because they happen to both be capitalist parties, which sucks ass but there’s a lot of space in the capitalist spectrum.
Listen, there’s nothing wrong with wanting Democrats to do better. But it’s BS to say they haven’t done anything positive in the last 20 years. 20 years where they only actually had full power for 4 of those years and 2 of those years only barely had a majority in the Senate.
Edit: also most of what I said Harris campaigned on has not been promised for 2 decades. She campaigned on policies that the party hadn’t supported on the presidential level before. The only democratic presidential nominee to campaign on legalizing weed was Harris. The only one to campaign on a unrealized gains tax was Harris. The only one to campaign on the down payment assistance was Harris. Biden talked about increasing the minimum wage too but that was 4 years ago so not over the last 20 years.
Maybe some better parties can take hold
Parties are essentially dictatorships, and at the top of my list of things wrong with our system
The good part of that, is the party can change even faster than trump can destroy America.
Parties can be dictatorships, but should be a reflection of the ideal governance of the system they’re trying to run. In the US certainly nearly all parties are oligarchical dictatorships, since that’s just what the US has been from the start.
Ideally we’d have a coequal party spring up or at least a co-op party. But I fear both of those are too complicated for American brains since even PSL has a fairly strict hierarchy based on funding potential instead of merit or internal democracy.
Parties can be dictatorships, but should be a reflection of the ideal governance of the system they’re trying to run
They 100% should be. And we just took huge steps towards that
But I don’t think you’re understanding. This isn’t an analogy, the Party Chair has absolute power, and zero accountability.
That’s what all that noise with Donna Brazile was about. She was a high ranking person at the DNC who took an interim chair. She was expecting everything to be fine because that’s what the prior chair had kept saying…
Then she disclosed that the party had been bankrupt for years, and was being funded by Hillary since before the primary started which came with many strings, one of which was that Clinton’s campaign had final say on anything they DNC said.
I really think the people who don’t think the party has changed much, just aren’t truly aware of how bad shit has been at the DNC the last 30 years. Most don’t even know why it didn’t improve under Obama’s presidency
Partie’s will always exist. They are a natural progression of people aligning their values. You can call them different names but a ‘group of politically aligned people’ will always form.
Maybe some better parties can take hold
The biggest problem with the US is lack of proportional representation. Winner-takes-all elections have led to the inevitable outcome. It’s also why in Europe the propagandists are trying to push for the same system whenever they can.
Both can be true you know
We were going to eventually get a president that’s doing what Trump is doing assuming we failed to organize. I just wanted more time to organize in the hopes that we could avoid all the pain and suffering that a president like Trump will cause.
As somebody who’s worked on leftist local campaigns, no amount of time was ever going to help us. A large majority of the American people want to stay on the globalist neoliberal train until it inevitably crashes. The only thing they can’t agree on is the conductor.
If only there was an organization, like, a big, established political party, that’s been around for a really long time that could have done something, rather than people trying to organize last minute.
Are you talking about the Democrats? They weren’t going to do anything. They rely on wealthy donors. The same wealthy donors that like what Trump is doing.
It is and always has been class warfare.
Yeah it’s too bad those schmucks didn’t and won’t do anything. I’m just noting that it’s funny that there’s already an organization that should be doing something and failed
Even the existence of the phrase “vote blue no matter who” is a dead giveaway as to why the Democrats failed… Again.
You cannot run entirely on simply not being the other party. That is not enough to entice voters on the fence. You might think it is and those people on the fence are too stupid so they should just “vote blue no matter who”, but clearly that hasn’t been fucking work for the Democrats.
You ignore one simple fact.
The GOP always votes Red, no matter who.
It takes two sides to have a reasonable discussion, but only one side to start a war.
It’s a war and you’ve been invaded.
GOP also always picks a Republican head of the FBI when they’re in charge. So does the Democratic president. Why is that?
You may want to inform party leadership there’s a war on, they been out here trying to pull a muscle reaching across the aisle.
Except the GOP doesn’t always vote red, not matter who. I am friends with several people who are still registered Republicans that did not vote for Trump either time.
Fucking echo chambers are dangerous man.
Trump had a difference of less than a million votes between this election and his first. You friends are anecdotes that don’t move the needle. They are the exception not the rule.
Herman Cain was Trump’s pal, I guess that means Trump’s not a racist, right?
The fascist party always votes for fascists without thought? Who woulda guessed.
Guess we gotta be fascists and vote without thought to beat them! Why has no one just tried to out fascist fascists before, it’s so simple and you’re so smart for coming up with that strategy.
So what’s your plan?
How do we get Trump out? Create a 3rd Party in under 24 months?
Any usable ideas?
Acknowledge the problems Americans are actually facing, pick the leaders of the thousands of protests currently happening as grass roots campaigners, identify of those leaders who has the admin experience to do the boring jobs of an elected official, while folding in the hundreds of third party reps already in office by simply taking their talking points into the platform. Ideally make a show of rejecting corporate funding and roll some union leaders into the party to provide easy consistent funding sources.
People are happy to vote for things, if they believe you’re not a cop or corporate puppet, like Harris or Clinton respectively.
Oh, and public executions for people that think you can’t have a third party in fptp even when one party falls entirely out of favor.
So, the same people who didn’t show up for Bernie in 2016, 2020, and 2024 are suddenly going to come to the polls now?
People keep posting like there’s this giant army of leftists out there. I haven’t seen them yet, and don’t plan on counting on them.
Also, your plan is remarkably light on details. Are these people going to be voting in Dem primaries, or creating a 3rd party.
And there’s not one candidate named. Just some vague Not Hillary Clinton.
Yes, the people that thought sanders had no chance due to dnc corruption that they were objectively correct about will mobilize for someone without that restriction. If sanders were to start a third party he alone would ensure the dnc never gets another candidate in office. And he’s a moderate.
Because of the rules on civility, I’m going to say this as absolutely nicely as I can. Who the fuck are you to demand more from a random on the internet than the entire democratic party has ever given anyone?
It’s a more concrete plan than continuing to go far right as the Dems did in the last two elections where they lost.
M4a has around a 70% approval rating in polls, as does measures like focusing on green energy, taxing the rich, providing free college, retraining police, and reducing the power of the executive. Hell even ubi has over 50% in most polls. “Leftist” policies are popular. Hell socialism is extremely popular. You just can’t use the word socialist or communist thanks to 80 years of you people existing.
I asked for a plan. You don’t have one. You can’t even name a candidate. And somehow this is all my fault.
The GOP always votes Red, no matter who.
They literally don’t though. They voted for Trump because they liked him, not because he ran as a Republican. There’s that phenomenon where Trump voters also vote for candidates like AOC or Bernie Sanders, so… Yeah.
A lot of people that voted for Bernie back in the day voted for Trump and then AOC down ballot in 24.
The far left cannot fathom people making those choices or existing at all it seems. But they really do.
A lot of people that voted for Bernie back in the day voted for Trump and then AOC down ballot in 24.
Suuuuuuure they did buddy…
Now get to sleep so the Easter Bunny has time to hide the eggs.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/aoc-trump-voters_n_67320370e4b052f25adcff55
AOC was surprised and when she tried to talk to people to understand why they would vote for her and Trump the left threw a fit and yelled at her.
Y’all are in deep denial about this shit apparently.
Oh ok…
That’s saying more people voted her and trump in 2024 than voted her and trump in 2020.
Not what you claimed it said.
That number includes people who voted Republican up and down ballot in 2020 just as much as it includes people who voted D for both in 2020.
The
far leftcannot fathom people making those choices or existing at all it seems. But they really do.Milquetoast liberals are about as much in denial about this as the hard left socialists, maybe even more so.
I definitely feel the denial rates on this particular topic lessen the more towards center you get, but I get your point.
The GOP always votes Red, no matter who.
How’d that work out?
Seriously, if your plan is to follow the same path as Republicans, does that mean you think it’s worked out well for them the last 20 years?
Are republican voters being taken care of by their elected officials or did having no standards and excusing everything their party did just make it so the most corrupt candidate advances to the general?
What is different about Dems that would make the result be literally the opposite, and how much more time do you think we should waste seeing if it works?
Instead of running a charismatic candidate with a progressive which statistically results in the presidency, House, and Senate?
Why not take the easy path that gets us what we want instead of the hardest path where we get the least reward?
That is not enough to entice voters on the fence.
It’s your hellscape, fence-sitters. Idiots. If only you could have done something, any one goddamn thing to have avoided this gutting of democracy, this looting of generations of social capital, demonizing of progressive causes and the establishment of a russian vassal state.
But I understand the candidate was not exciting enough to get off the fence.
You coulda been somebody, Charlie, you coulda been a contender.
Oh my God it’s like talking to a brick wall with you people.
The Democrats have been running on a platform of “we aren’t Trump” for 3 elections in a row. They lost two of them.
This loss falls on Democrat leadership far more than it falls on the people on the fence.
The fact is the Democrats failed to convince enough people they were the better option. Mostly because they tried the same strategy against the same opponent 3 fucking times.
This loss falls on Democrat leadership far more than it falls on the people on the fence.
Sounds like you like making excuses for shitstain losers who sit around waiting for a political party to court them instead of doing their fucking homework and making responsible decisions.
So, setting aside the validity of this perspective, you do run into one problem: You can’t import new voters. These are the hand you’re dealt and complaining about them accomplishes nothing.
And you’re still not getting it.
This is actually hilarious to watch. You’ve got multiple people in here explaining it multiple ways and y’all still can’t wrap your heads around it.
And you’re still not getting it.
Nah bud, you’re not getting it.
Politicians come and go. Political parties go through phases where they’re better and worse at advertising themselves. The American voters who failed to do their civic duty by responsibly informing themselves, choosing instead to sit around and wait for a party to court them until they felt appeased, will still be there next go around, waiting to not do their civic duty again, entirely dependent on whether they feel a party appeased them enough or not.
Because they’re too fucking lazy to do simple things like looking up the voting history of said party. I did. Now I don’t need Democrats to court me like I’m some dipshit prom queen because I KNOW they are the better option, whether they court me or not.
And you’re still digging. This is fucking comical.
Keeping calling those people who didn’t do exactly what you wanted a bunch of fucking idiots. I’m sure that will win them over for next time!
Democrats “Vote for us no matter what or you’re an uneducated fuckwit”
Also Democrats “I can’t believe acting like elitist snobs and calling people who might have voted our way idiots didn’t work!”
Just keeeeeep doubling down.
2028 is gonna be really rough for y’all if you keep this mentality the whole time.
Sounds like you making excuses for a shitstain party who sits around waiting for wins to come to them instead of learning from mistakes and fixing those mistakes next time.
It’s the type of mentality of the people who burned medicine women as witches because they got sicker after refusing treatment.
If you tell them a bad result will happen if they stay the course, they’ll be yelling at you when the bad result happens
Their brains just link the person who warned them with the bad result, and they can’t accept that they were wrong.
The good news is people like that no longer run the DNC.
Trump begging to be king should have been enough. The fact that it wasn’t shows it’s not just ‘what the democrats do’ it’s that people are fucking stupid and hateful. Hell the VP doesn’t even know where this country came from. These people are not American. They’re traitors to the red coats and don’t even know what that means.
The fact that it wasn’t shows it’s not just ‘what the democrats do’ it’s that people are fucking stupid and hateful.
Well here’s the thing: The average person does not, in fact, care about nebulous ideas like democracy. And why would they? Why did the democracy people do for them? Hint: The answer is nothing. That’s why they vote Republican, because Republicans promise change rather than more of the same.
The average person does not, in fact, care about nebulous ideas like democracy.
Then they are profoundly stupid and have no right to live in, and benefit from, a democracy. They shame the people who died to give it to them.
And why would they?
Because people died to give it to them and they benefit GREATLY from it.
Why did the democracy people do for them? Hint: The answer is nothing.
Ignorant comment. Look up the democrat’s voting history. It is full of votes in favor of the middle/lower classes. They gave me affordable healthcare when I was young and poor. The last democrat president forgave part or all of a lot of people’s student loans. It also isn’t just about what they do, it’s about what they don’t do. Like shit on the Constitution. Strip women of rights. Deconstruct our federal government. Fire a bunch of veterans. Destroy our allegiances.
because Republicans promise change rather than more of the same.
Sure, but the change is always negative. Economically and socially.
It is full of votes in favor of the middle/lower classes.
I wouldn’t call it full of them, but this statement is in essence true. However, they don’t go nearly far enough. The Democrats promise bandaids as the country is dragged towards late stage capitalism hell by the ultra rich, and then they apply some of those bandaids as the country is—predictably—dragged toeards late stage capitalism hell by the ultra rich. The Republicans promise to end that and finally Make America Great Again. This strikes close to home because things have been getting worse for the majority of people for the last four decades, so when someone tells them that’s the cultural Marxists’ fault and if we end DEI things will get better like they were in the pre-DEI past they listen. That’s what I meant by democracy not doing anything for them; the bandaids don’t feel like they matter when they do nothing about the guy squeezing the wound for blood.
Sure, but the change is always negative. Economically and socially.
That’s what they actually do. What they promise to do is Make America Great (and white) Again. It’s the fascist playbook to the letter; they redirect the working class’s resentment rooted in their worsening circumstances from the ruling class to an imaginary enemy (Jews, immigrants, etc) that they then persecute while promising their followers that one more pogrom and things will get better. There’s only one counterplay to this and it’s to actually go after the ultra rich and build a more equitable society.
Elections are a popularity contest with weird rules more than anything…
But the DNC kept trying to force uncharismatic candidates with conservative policy down voters throats, and stole funds from state parties to focus on that costing us down ballot races making losing have even more consequences.
They haven’t just been putting all our eggs in one basket.
They put it in the basket of a 20 year old shitty child’s bike and then put Biden on and pushed him into the interstate.
Voter can’t fail a party, but Dems have been failing their voters for decades.
I’m optimistic Martin will change that, enough to give him a fair shot and not just a month.
Dems have absolutely been failing to be an effective political party, but good lord I’d rather have the milquetoast incompetency on democratic control of the government than this abaolute shitshow that Republicans have been running for the last… God it’s only been a month and a half since the inauguration.
Milquetoast incompetence makes them lose elections.
Them losing elections allows republicans to have a shit show.
Then the Dems get a modicum of power and do milquetoast incompetence again, and the cycle repeats.
It’s been this way my entire life.
It’s been this way my entire life.
That’s because Americans are stupid/hateful, not because the Democrat party is particularly bad.
The democratic party’s first job is to win elections.
They are very very bad at that.
And American voter’s first job is to responsibly inform themselves so they can make informed decisions come election time.
The Democrat party’s voting history is there for anyone to peruse through. I’ll save you the trouble and inform you that it is FULL of votes in favor of the lower/middle classes.
If the Democrat party fails to advertise themselves effectively, that voting history is still there, waiting for non-lazy Americans to inform themselves with. If Americans choose not to do that, then they are failing at their civic duty as citizens in a democracy. And now our democracy is in serious jeopardy because of their laziness.
You win elections with the electorate you have, not the electorate you want.
Clearly people are not responsibly informed and do not make informed decisions. Democrats need to account for the fact that most Americans are idiots if they want to control anything except a few states and cities.
There are too few non-lazy Americans for them to rely on them for victory.
Voter can’t fail a party
Nope, but they can sure fail their country. And did.
I’m an adult, so I’ll take an uncharismatic candidate over a traitor felon rapist who deconstructs our federal government, destroys our allegiances, fucks up our economy, and bends the knee to Russia.
But I accept that a LOT of Americans are simply children trapped in adult bodies.
I’m an adult, so I’ll take an uncharismatic candidate over a traitor felon rapist
Great.
But like a whole shit ton of people tried to warn for the last year now, Biden/Kamala we’re enough to beat trump.
We’ll need all the voters again, we won’t need anyone that was involved in either of their campaigns though. So why shit on the literal tens of millions we need in defense of less than an airplane’s worth of people who hightailed it back to their mansions?
You get that, right? We don’t have to run uncharismatic conservative candidates to beat trump, it’s literally the worst option we have
We can just run a charismatic candidate with a progressive campaign promise like we did with Obama. Did you forget that?
So why shit on the literal tens of millions we need in defense of less than an airplane’s worth of people who hightailed it back to their mansions?
You answered your own question.
That airplane’s worth of people come and go. They won’t be relevant next time around.
The tens of millions of people that failed to do their civic duty and inform themselves responsibly, waiting around instead for a party to court them until they felt appeased, will still be there, not doing their civic duty next time around.
And that is why the fault rests on American voters, not politicians that come and go.
So you think insulting them and badgering them that they shouldn’t have a single standard then letter by name…
You…
You think this is the most effective move to get them back in the party?
You don’t even kind of think what would be most effective is explaining to people how the DNC works and what the new chair is like would work better?
Cuz like, I just have a bachelor’s in psychology, so I would absolutely love to hear what I’m missing where you think the best way to recruit people in the fight against fascism is yelling insults.
If you want to help, actually want to help, can you do what will actually work and not work against the party?
I know the PUMA people are still around and bitter from 08, this is starting to feel like that. I tend to just block those people tho so I can concentrate on what translates to Dem gains in the federal government
I voted for Kamala. My parents and grandparents did as well. I do not feel that the democrats were/are doing jack shit to court new voters. The party itself expects to just be the status quo and have people vote for it. Whether people want to admit it or not, the point of being a progressive party is to be… how do I put this… PROGRESSIVE.
the point of being a progressive party is to be… how do I put this… PROGRESSIVE.
Their policies are progressive. They have a voting history proving they vote progressively. Joe Biden was an EXTREMELY progressive president.
Yeah, the Dems should advertise better. But Americans should also not be braindead stupid assholes and do some goddamn homework.
We had two options. A fascist regime or something 1 trillion times better. We shit the bed and went with fascism. That’s not the Democrat’s fault. That’s dipshit American’s fault.
Yeah their policies are so progressive that the dick Chaney family endorsed them. Biden was so progressive that as soon as the supreme court repealed Roe v. Wade, he made an EO to protect the rights of women. Oh and of course how can we forget that he made college and vocational schooling free for everyone, and secured the rights of trans Americans to literally just fucking exist.
oh wait. no wait he didn’t do any of that. in fact I think he might’ve just held up the status quo of the time.
“NO NO, IT’S THE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE WRONG”
I heard that’s the reason people picked Guaranteed Fascism from the BINARY CHOICE already from the graphic.
-
They ought to be progressive!
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They’re totally progressive! It’s wonderful! ❤️🇺🇲
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Um no they’re not and here’s why.
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Well ya only have one choice so shut up!
— why we lost
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Yeah their policies are so progressive that the dick Chaney family endorsed them.
Yeah, I’m sure it had nothing to do with Liz Cheney being outed by the Republican party for showing opposition to their cult leader. I’m also sure it had nothing to do with the Cheney family recognizing their party had been taken over by said cult leader and his cult and being pretty upset about the threat that poses the country. I’m sure the Cheney family only endorsed Democrats because they genuinely believe in progressive policies. Lol.
Biden was so progressive that as soon as the supreme court repealed Roe v. Wade, he made an EO to protect the rights of women.
HE LITERALLY DID. Trump undid them as soon as he became president because LEGISLATING VIA EO’S IS FUCKING STUPID. The only way to make something stick is via legislating through Congress, and that requires A LOT more sway than Biden and Democrats had in this divisive ass country.
Oh and of course how can we forget that he made college and vocational schooling free for everyone
Nope, but he forgave student loans for a shit ton of people despite Republican AND Supreme Court obstruction at every turn.
You need to understand that YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. You clearly have ZERO clue what you’re talking about, and yet here you are, spreading misinformation on the internet. And, judging by your upvotes, people are taking your misinformation at face value, thus perpetuating the spread of misinformation, leading us to where we are now.
Do your homework before you post, or don’t post.
Damn. Kudos to you for taking the time to actually educate the dumbos on Lemmy. I’ve long since given up and just get my jollies posting inflammatory memes and silently giggling as they all flip out.
I admire you taking the effort to actually try to educate the dumbos on Lemmy. I’ve long since given up. I just post inflammatory memes and quietly laugh at everyone freaking out.
“I do not feel that the democrats were/are doing jack shit to court new voters.”
This sentence structure obfuscates your meaning.
When your opponent is everything Mr Trump is, one would think
- economy slowly improving from covid
- protect human rights
- hold the line for the Supreme Court
- keep democracy safe
- … so we can at least talk about other stuff
would be enough. That was enough. It’s a no-brainer IN A BINARY CHOICE.
We live in a post-truth society. Let that really sink in for a moment. Take it literally and think what that means. With modern social media, we have unleashed technology we were not remotely prepared for.
they were not doing Anything and are still not doing Anything.
hope that clears it up
they were not doing Anything
Their voting history and Biden’s accomplishments disagree with that statement.
are still not doing Anything.
They do not control either house of Congress, the presidency, or the Supreme Court. Voters made sure of that.
Neither did the GOP during Obama’s presidency. They still managed to obstruct and block anything of value. Curious isn’t it.
What’s curious is your lack of understanding of how our government works.
You’re completely ignoring the fact that Republicans were able to obstruct because they gained House, and then Senate, majority during Obama’s terms. Democrats do not have majority in either chamber of Congress right now. So your comment is senseless.
For those keeping score, this isn’t my sockpuppet account. But I feel we could be drinking buddies until we argued about my programming style or something; then it’s war.
They were able to water down the ACA into near uselessness without any majority. At the start it was a Republican vision of healthcare, and they still watered it down because brown man bad. I do understand that they gained power in the midterms which allowed them to do even more obstruction but to claim that Democrats could have just done ANYTHING they wanted because they had the 3 branches is patently false. And yet… Here we are. Dems are largely rolling over and letting the GOP run roughshod over the gov. Not utilizing the abomination of the filibuster for any good, still confirming cabinet members, still treating with traitor and conmen.
Oh yeah, make no mistake, the Dems are fucked.
It’s just that in '24 we had an option between “continue having a flawed democracy” and “put a literal fascist in power”, and a lot of us are still sore over folks who insisted that choosing the latter was some form of leftism. They weren’t a major force in the general electorate, but here on Lemmy, they were certainly loud, so a lot of bad feeling remains.
You clearly don’t understand leftist thought. Voting for a cop, a warmonger and a complicit child-kidnapper is incompatible with many leftists’ beliefs and values. Continued aversion to actually listening to criticisms of the Dems and DNC from the left is why your beloved party is crashing and burning.
You clearly don’t understand leftist thought. Voting for a cop, a warmonger and a complicit child-kidnapper is incompatible with many leftists’ beliefs and values.
“But she said she wasn’t Trump so she’s clearly the only person to ever consider voting for!”
You clearly don’t understand leftist thought.
No, I absolutely do. They preferred the fascist to working with the dreaded ‘shitlibs’, just like Thalmann.
Nazi punks fuck off.
Call me a Nazi all you like, it doesn’t make me a Nazi. In fact, you moralists should take that log out of your eye and actually look at the world your status-quoism has generated
Call me a Nazi all you like, it doesn’t make me a Nazi.
No? You just welcomed in fascism because it pleased your prejudices and preconceptions. Sounds pretty indistinguishable from most Nazis to me.
In fact, you moralists should take that log out of your eye and actually look at the world your status-quoism has generated
“Wow, the world is bad. We should make it worse.”
Brilliant plan. Millions of LGBT Americans and tens of millions of Ukrainians thank you for your ardent support of fascists taking power. I’m sure those dying for lack of supplies from USAID are thrilled as well, as well as poor Americans who can’t afford the massive increases in costs of living and are already living paycheck-to-paycheck, and the crackdown on unions.
What a brave leftist world you’ve helped create. Maybe if you lick fascist boots a little more, it’ll become even better.
I also find it amusing that I’m getting called a ‘moralist’ because I advocated the utilitarian option. What fucking insanity.
Millions of LGBT Americans
You’re talking to one, and no, the Democrats have backstabbed us at every opportunity. Especially at trans issues, which they love to capitulate on as a bargaining chip for getting their capitalist donors more money.
Maybe if you lick fascist boots a little more, it’ll become even better.
If you walk outside and throw a brick in the face of a cop, you can talk to me about what it means to be a bootlicker.
I also find it amusing that I’m getting called a ‘moralist’ because I advocated the utilitarian option.
You advocate for action based upon a spook? Sorry, that makes you a moralist. You decided that “maximizing utility” was the moral choice, and that again makes you a moralist. Perhaps you should write a sternly worded lever-pulling manifesto to send to your congressman?
You’re talking to one, and no, the Democrats have backstabbed us at every opportunity. Especially at trans issues, which they love to capitulate on as a bargaining chip for getting their capitalist donors more money.
Would you like to remind me about the state of LGBT rights in this country in 2024 compared to 1990?
Soaking in fascist circles seems to sap your connection to reality.
If you walk outside and throw a brick in the face of a cop, you can talk to me about what it means to be a bootlicker.
lmao, you ushered in fascism, bro, and you’re sitting here justifying it besides. Saying “You aren’t attacking enough cops!” to others isn’t going to cure you of your bootlicking position.
You advocate for action based upon a spook?
Jesus fucking Christ.
Sorry, that makes you a moralist. You decided that “maximizing utility” was the moral choice, and that again makes you a moralist.
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Hey, cool, you have ADHD too? We can go to RFK’s concentration camps together. I’m sure our Healing Through Labor™ will be successful.
Ooooh! Count me in as a qualifying candidate. I’ll drop my Vyvanse off in the bins outside the gates and partake in the Healing Through Labor™ right beside you, my Brother In- wait… what was I just saying?
Can’t believe our only hope for mitigation of the damage is that the administration is so incompetent that they trick over their own dicks in the process of trying all of their horrors.
It’s not going to be pretty either way.
The only argument for voting trump while thinking “left” that I can think of, is that all that anger and chaos leads to a big reform of the political landscape where there is a way for a more social system in the end
But I’d consider that an extremely risky move…
That’s literally the accelerationist/anti-electoralist religious doctrine. And I say “religious doctrine” because they keep insisting that people will rise up if they assist in the sacrifice of enough LGBTQ+, POC, and other vulnerable people, despite there being absolutely no evidence in history of that ever occurring, even under brutal totalitarian dynasties that lasted hundreds of years.
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But I’d consider that an extremely risky move…
So we all get to discover in real time!
True that 😂
Dems didn’t need new voters. They just needed the same folks that voted for Biden in 2020 to show up in 2024.
Too bad they were too racist and sexist to vote for a black woman.
Lot of those people who voted in 2020 weren’t Democratic voters. They voted for the Democrats that one time and then the Democrats failed to retain them. That’s on the Democrats. I don’t know how many times people can say it. It’s a candidate and the party’s job to earn people’s votes. Earn them. There is literally no other way to do it. Democrats refuse to do that that’s why they lose.
Here I thought that 4 years of competent leadership, a booming economy, and some significant legislative victories would earn votes.
Silly me. Clearly the voting populous wanted extreme leftist policies. Explains why Trump won.
What world are you living in where you think the economy of the last 4 years has been booming? Every indicator that isn’t the Dow Jones indicates that the economy has been absolutely fucked for the last 4 years.
The real one?
Where 6 million more people in the US were employed than before the pandemic.
Where inflation in the US was lower than that of peer western countries.
Where the number of people using food stamps decreased.
Where wages went up almost 20% over 4 years.
Where GDP grew by some 14% over 4 years.
Where the S&P 500 increase by 43% over 4 years.
By what reasonable metric would you consider the economy fucked?
Have you tried to actually find a job in the last 2 years? It’s almost impossible despite loads of “we’re hiring!” sighns that are offering less than they were 2 years ago
Most Americans do not care what inflation in the UK or Germany is. They care what it looks like here, and when most Americans were living paycheck to paycheck before Biden took over, inflation hits them even harder.
Maybe average income has gone up that much the last 4 years, but most people’s income has been essentially flat for the last 4. The majority of Americans make less than $30 an hour, which is inadequate to live on nearly anywhere in the country.
GDP is great if you have stocks and bonds. It’s meaningless to your average person who is barely able to put anything into a 401(k).
So you got 6 different metrics about a good economy and your answer is… that it feels hard to find a job?
Like anyone in IT, I get bombarded by offers on LinkedIn and salaries kept growing just fine.
The numbers clearly say that more people are employed and less are on food stamps, so it could be that you need to do something about yourself?
So your evidence that the economy was broken under Biden is your feelings.
Cool.
The democrats are a liberal party which is why they got almost 49% of the vote instead of under 1%.
The party itself expects to just be the status quo and have people vote for it.
When the alternative was Trump and Project 2025, that’s exactly what most should have voted for.
But stopping DEI was more important than Social Security for the majority of voters
I could be wrong about this: But I increasingly feel that the major issue for most of these people was economic instability - not making enough to make ends meet. But, out of a feeling of humiliation around saying “im poor” the message instead targets points of blame; either to potentially spare more dollars for themselves, or just genuinely to lash out at a world that’s succeeding without them.
Doesn’t make the approach of their message in any way valid or okay. I’m just explaining that they needed an answer to their struggles. Trump gave them an elaborate lie about it, which to them was better than nothing.
Peope can’t afford their bills and the Democrats were out there saying the economy is stronger than ever. They had no intention of helping people and you are shocked that people didn’t go out to vote. If it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t, most people will chose the latter
They should at least have voted third party… I think many people should have voted third party… Why do so few people vote third party?
If they are too apathetic to vote for dems, they certainly won’t go out of their way to make a statement and vote third party.
Which kinda defeats the purpose of a vote in my opinion 😅
because voting third party is useless and only helps trump to win since you’re wasting your vote
Still better than not voting at all. Would not give the same signal if republicans win with 40% of votes VS winning with more than 50% of votes.
Additionally, if the regular voting base for third parties grows, it exponentially makes more sense voting third party.
It is like driving backwards away from a really near wall where you parked sideways against it: you have to get just a bit closer to the wall with your nose, but as soon as the tail starts to get away from the wall, the distance grows exponentially faster over time.I think best for US would be alternative conservative parties besides republicans.
In a first past the post voting system like america has, third parties will never get a significant amount of votes. Even if they would get like 5%, which would be a lot for a third party (10 times the amount of the green party in 2024), it would make no difference whatsoever on the election outcome. Sure the winning party might have a smaller margin on the popular vote, but that’s totally irrelevant since you can win the election without a majority on the popular vote anyway.
Then 5% of the population has wasted their vote, and if they’re smart they won’t repeat that mistake by the next election and make their vote actually matter. I don’t think the exponential thing works because people who voted third party will probably regret their decision as it leads to a win for the greater evil party.
I agree that if you do not live in a swing state, your vote doesn’t really matter anyways and voting third party might make sense. However in general, voting a third party only makes sense when at least 1/3 of the population does the same, which is never gonna happen.
The only way for America to get out of this two party competition, is to change the voting system and make it actually proportional like a real democracy. Obviously neither of the parties will ever change the system because it benefits them, so that change might require some significant events to happen…
Well, you are right 😌 I’m just too optimistic, but that is a personal trait that I know I have 😸
It was stronger than under Trump. Everyone forgot they had to fight for toilet paper under Trump.
Only an absolute moron would believe that the economy was better in 2024 than in 2019 for your average person. You can’t blame the poor economy on Biden, but you can absolutely blame the DNC for not spputing off reforms to help people.
You are one of those who forgot how bad it was. So many millions were in danger of eviction that moratoriums had to be passed.
Exactly. Moratoriums were passed. Absolutely nothing was done the past 2 years as prices for everything skyrocketed. People remember that sort of thing. Literally the forst thing Biden did was break his promise and give out stimulus checks that were nowhere near what he campaigned on.
The economy recovered such that people were able to pay their rent despite the increases. Moratoriums ended yet mass evictions didn’t happen. People were doing far better than under Trump.
He was able to bring inflation down, but the impacts were felt far and wide. As for stimulus checks those were written and voted on by Congress. Congress was Republican during Bidens presidency. He did sign executive orders to speed up the dispersal and to expand SNAP to try to help families. But if the people who fund the stimulus check (Congress) don’t fund it, there is nothing to give out.
Very, very well put. I voted for Kamala as well, and this is what I’m trying to scream from the rooftops. The democrats seem to see the current populist moment as an excuse to phone it in. It keeps blowing up in the face, and they keep saying “oh well, I guess we need to move right / let the voters learn their lesson”
That’s literally the program which benefits their donors.
Non-contributing rage bait. The Democrats were wrong. The Democrats still are wrong. And the Democratic presidential candidate was infinitely better than her opposition.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
We now have definitive proof that most people do not.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
“If they dislike my party, they must support the other party, nothing else exists, right?”
“If you dislike pancakes that must mean you LOOOOVE waffles right?”
No bitch thats a brand new sentence wtf is you talking about.
In a two party system, especially when there’s no clear “I don’t like either” option then yes, nothing else exists. When you don’t vote you’re not saying “I don’t like either party” you’re saying “I don’t care which party wins”. If you don’t care which party wins then you’re in support of both parties.
And it’s telling that so many people didn’t care whether the dictator or Democrats won, isn’t it? If you’re making the case between yourself and a megalomaniac, and the majority of Americans shrug and go about their day, what the hell are you doing wrong?
Yes but in discussing politics we are not relegated to the same limitations we have in voting. Thus there is no contradiction between voting down-ballot Democrat, then going home and tweeting “I hate Dick Cheney and the Democrats.”
OP makes a clownish commentary on this. If someone did not vote blue who probably should have, shame on them, but the Democrats are still wrong.
Yes, political discussions are not as limited in options as voting and there absolutely should be a political discussion about the Democratic party. They suck, have sucked and will continue to suck, unless they change.
And I agree that there’s no contradiction. I’d even go as far as to say there was no contradiction in voting for Harris and then tweeting “the democratic candidate sucks”, because you have to vote for someone and Trump (clearly) was the worse option.
My point was rather that if you dislike a party and you don’t vote for them then you are in support of the other party, even if you don’t vote at all. The nuances get kicked out when it comes to voting.
My point was rather that if you dislike a party and you don’t vote for them then you are in support of the other party, even if you don’t vote at all
And that is a dog shit point. An easy example: California. Nobody who didn’t vote in CA supported Trump by not voting, unless you don’t know how elections work
Stop trying to blame those not at fault you weird authoritarian
Just because the electoral college is a stupid thing doesn’t mean I’m not right. Had it been a popular vote those non-votes would’ve mattered.
Had it been a popular vote those non-votes would’ve mattered.
Why yes, if it was a completely different situation then it’d be a completely different situation
10/10 you dolt
ok fair but not relevant to my own point post it somewhere relevant next time if you want me to support lol
Ever heard of third parties? I’ve voted Green Party since I could vote. There is the Libertarian, Reform, Constitutional, and several other parties.
Yeah, they’re the non-vote parties. FPTP voting always devolves down to 2 parties, see Duverger’s Law. Even if by some miracle a 3rd party wins (and continues winning) they will eventually kick one of the previous 2 parties out and take their place as the new party in the 2 party system. In practice if my memory doesn’t fail me voting 3rd party hasn’t mattered for over a century because the 2 main parties are so entrenched, so voting for 3rd party is more or less throwing away your vote.
Well I would rather throw my vote away then vote for murdering sociopaths
Broadcasts from the future:
Wednesday, November 8, 2028: The democrats, running a Mike Pence and Mitt Romney ticket, have just lost to the a copy of Grok 3 trained on the transcripts of all of Donald Trump’s, uh, speeches, and its running mate, Eye Fuckskulls, the modern leader of the Aryan Brotherhood. After having a completely fair primary in which their super delegates all reported that they would vote for Pence on day one, and all the other candidates, each having won one or two states, dropped out and pledged their votes to Pence after he won the absolutely critical state of New Hampshire, the democrats were sure of their chances with this centrist ticket. Many democrats expressed befuddlement that they lost ground in every demographic, although some strategists see a glimmer of hope in that they managed to pick up sixteen disaffected Republican voters nationwide. Some voters seemed to think that the democrats didn’t make a case for why they should vote for Pence and Romney instead of Grok/Fuckskulls, but democrats disagree. “It’s hard to know for sure, but my guess is that it’s time to move past unpopular far left policies like only executing 100 detained immigrants a day, annexing only half of Canada, and limiting involuntary Tesla Factory labor to only the poorest Americans” said one democratic strategist.
“Stupid fucking leftists, progressives, and non-voters, Pence/Romney ‘Atheist Genocide But We’ll Say Sorry While Doing It 2028’ was the best chance we had at restoring the republic, the damage that Grok and Fuckskulls will do is immeasurable. I guess they’re just going to have to learn to vote blue no matter who in 2032!” Yelled another exasperated democrat on the TrumpNet ™, America’s isolated and heavily censored internet network.
I really enjoyed reading this, thank you for the satirical sci-fi of the bullshit we’re stuck with of today.
I’m pretty sure it’s actually a broadcast from the future mate.
As an outsider, I think you’re not on the side of the meme that you think you’re on.
If not voting for Trump wasn’t enough for Harris to win, she sure didn’t act like it. “Nothing to change” from the policies of the guy who was forced to step down wasn’t what the people wanted to hear.
Well, they sure have change now! Enjoy.
“Nothing to change” from the policies of the guy who was forced to step down wasn’t what the people wanted to hear.
This has been explained. Answering anything else was a PR trap.
A basic move would’ve been: “I will move to have better policies than before. Rally with our party and we will commit to changing course for working class families.”
It could’ve been as empty a promise as her opposition made, but that would’ve been basic competant campaigning. Easiest trap to avoid ever.
I mean he was asked to step down because of the worry that his mental faculties, not due to his policies. Remember, it was right after his first debate with Trump. The following debate, Kamala roasted Trump.
Hold on, last election he refused to say so explicitly, but he repeatedly implied he wouldn’t run for a second term and described himself as a bridge candidate. Then he demanded a second term at the last minute.
How did he “demand a second term in the last minute”? The assumption is a president will run for re election.
Unless they run in the first election as a bridge candidate and then, after being elected, refuse to confirm that he won’t run again for multiple years.
Yeah, except for the whole genocide thing. But mostly college kids protested that. You can just beat up those.
I don’t get how this relates to my post… Could you reword your comment
There were many of people who demanded Biden to step down, as he supported Israels genocide against Palestinians. The reasons you describe cover the party elites and many people in general, but Bidens support for genocide and Harris continuation of that support were part of the reasons why the Democrats lost to Trump again.
Stepping down was mainly due to his debate performance, not the genocide. Why do I believe that? A shit ton of people still voted for Kamala. It wasn’t enough for her to win, and it was less than Biden s votes last election, but a majority of Biden voters from his election still voted for Kamala.
Originally we aren’t talking about why he lost ( i do agree, perhaps incorrectly, that Kamala lost enough support because of her position on Gaza). Originally we were talking about why he was forced to step down, which again was due to his debate performance.
Argument falls apart when she was still the lesser of the two in the regard
Regardless of the actual outcome, I assume that most people who didn’t vote for her didn’t intend on helping Trump. Otherwise, they would have voted for him.
You want people to vote for you, it’s not enough to simply not vote for the other guy.
Or maybe we won’t vote for a democrat or a republican either one so a non vote isn’t a vote your way
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But… Eggs!
“Democrats are not doing enough to encourage people to vote for Democrats.” is a warning, not a threat.
People who make and post memes like this seem to think that the people complaining about conservative Democrats and pointing out problems in the party are not voting for Democrats. I think they largely wrong about that. We are voting for all Democrats all the time, but warning you that your messaging sucks and you are not going to get the turnout you need. It is not our fault we were correct.
You’re not promoting the party, it doesn’t matter how much you vote for them if you actively dissuade others from doing the same.
Wrong! ANY criticism of the party means you’re a secret maga Russian plant. The democrats are perfect and don’t need to improve in any way!
/s
I mean, you certainly argue like a MAGA.
The whole genocide joe Gaza bullshit proves this wrong. There were plenty of ‘protest’ votes this round. But their protest issues were stupid because trump had worse direction on all of them but for whatever reason that was ignored and everyone focused on Harris and Biden. As if trump wasn’t just waiting to glass the whole place and turn it into a resort or golf course already.
for whatever reason that was ignored and everyone focused on Harris and Biden.
It’s because Democrats have always been held to higher standards. Because we expect nothing from Republicans, because Republicans never deliver. Ever. So now all our expectations rest on Democrats and when you place all your expectations on one thing, it will always fail to live up.
So Democrats have to be flawless while Republicans get to literally be lawless.
Pretty stupid country we’ve got here. Signing our democracy away because one party can’t be perfect.
If a Republican is moderate on abortion or refuses to kiss the ring, they label him a Republican In Name Only (RINO) and he loses his primary.
Man being anti-genicide isn’t the bar for flawless buddy. The bar is way higher than that. Flawless is not what you to use to describe something that everyone should be except fucking war criminals.
Democrats have to be flawless
They really don’t and the fact that you don’t see that is why the blindness of the dems lead to their failure.
It is not our fault we were correct.
No. It’s your fault you’re not doing anything about it.
Create a community for every state and win the midterms (where applicable). Start there.
We are trying. I volunteer for campaigns and knock on doors for progressive candidates. And they get attacked by the kind of democrats who take most of their campaign contributions from property developers and car dealerships.
If you are voting for the establishment and attacking anybody who brings up valid criticisms, YOU are not doing anything about it.
Lemmy tradition: assuming everyone else is a keyboard warrior with no direct action.
People who make and post memes like this seem to think that the people complaining about conservative Democrats and pointing out problems in the party are not voting for Democrats. I think they largely wrong about that. We are voting for all Democrats all the time, but warning you that your messaging sucks and you are not going to get the turnout you need. It is not our fault we were correct.
This is true in the general population, but I just feel the need to point out that folks who explicitly weren’t voting for Dems, as well as folks who were indistinguishable from MAGA talking points, were very prominent on Lemmy, which is part of the reason why you see a lot of this soreness still.
Exactly. “Back the blue no matter who” is great and dandy in the months between primaries and the election, but at any other time it’s a straight-up nonsense phrase. We’re now well into the “Who’ll be the new blue?” stage, and the last thing we need is to let some ancient, entitled, dem politician shuffle in and take “their turn” and for democrats to just go with it again. Now’s the time to build a movement against the dnc establishment and for the progressive wing.
I also don’t really see the point in the meme and ones like it. The election already happened, and whether you personally blame voters or the dnc, either way it’s the dnc’s problem to fix or they’re gonna go extinct.
The point is we failed to promote the DNC in those months when it actually mattered and millions of people who voted for the party before stayed home instead. We need to promote the DNC, not just shit on them. We need to convince people to vote for those fucking mummies and those tech and science illiterate dolts because the alternative is worse and we need to scream that from the mountaintops “The DNC will protect you. The DNC will enrich your lives. Voting against the DNC is self-harm. The GOP wants DEATH for Profits.”
After the primaries yes, we should do all of that. And though it sounds like I’m taking a shit on the dnc (well tbh I kinda am), the way I see it they’re in serious need of some constructive criticism, because ironically for a “democratic” party they’re incredibly out of touch with their voters, proved by a good portion of them not even showing up for them the last major election. Now is the perfect time to work on the dnc.
The DNC will protect you. The DNC will enrich your lives
See this might be marginally true, certainly more true of the dnc than the gop, but that’s a low bar and there’s so much room for improvement. A lot of Dems are transparently in the pockets of the wealthy, and many protections are lip-service at best. I’ve even read articles recently about a few dem politicians walking back their pro-trans-rights positions. If now was post-primary, I’d be hold my breath ticked off that the lesser evil chose to be a little more evil at the last second, but now is the time to clean up the mess and build a more popular and representative dnc before the next major election. They can start by taking a sloganeering class
Oh this again? Democratic Party: has our Neo liberalism, refusal to enact progressive policy, and backing of a genocide alienated progressive voters? Disenfranchised voter: damn it we told you a thousand times yes! Democratic Party: No it’s the voters who are wrong.
Yes, stop thinking and just follow the herd! That’s surely the solution! \s
Thankfully I live in a state where my vote doesn’t matter at all. jfc.
How many years can the libs keep this up?
