• WIZARD POPE💫@lemmy.world
      0·
      2 years ago

      At least us earlier gen z grew up without smartphones being the thing. If I wanted anything done I had to use a computer. Smartphones only became as prevalent as they are now when I was about 12-14 (at least that’s what it feels like).

  • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.caEnglish
    0·
    2 years ago

    I’ve worked in IT for most of my career. I’ve seen some shit. I’m on the older side of “millennial”. Not old enough to be on the cusp, but almost immediate after. I have had computers as a part of my life since I was young enough to remember, starting with a 286/386 that my dad used at home.

    One thing I’ve noticed is that most companies shit doesn’t stink. What I mean by that is that all of them, to some extent, hide, cover up, or otherwise deny that their product has any issues whatsoever. I did a lot of VMware training back in the day, there were good reasons for that, but I won’t get into it … anyways, all of their training was about how it’s supposed to work. There’s zero material about what to do when it doesn’t work like it is supposed to… Even “troubleshooting” courses are designed to help you fix the configuration of the system using only methods sanctioned by the company, because any fault or flaw in their product must be because you aren’t using it right, or you simply don’t know how.

    I’ve known so many millennials, especially in the tech space, that had to fix their own problems because the product, and the company that made it, believes that their shit doesn’t stink. There’s nothing wrong with their product, you either don’t know how to use it, or you aren’t using it correctly,

    Meanwhile, here in reality, all their shit sucks to all fuck, and their product is little more than hour garbage.

    Yay?

  • FinishingDutch@lemmy.world
    0·
    2 years ago

    I’m an 80’s kid. We had to learn everything: MS-DOS, Windows, how to install OS’s and software, serial ports, etc. Nothing was easy or convenient. You had to LEARN how and why things worked if you wanted to run games and things.

    My dad never used any of our actual PC’s. He wouldn’t know which way to hold the mouse, much less anything else. We tried to teach him, but he just couldn’t grasp any of the fundamentals.

    But with an iPad? That’s easy. It just works. He can e-mail, do Facebook, watch YouTube or other streaming…

    Point is: we made shit way too accessible and convenient. Kids never have to learn anything anymore. So they don’t. We literally had to teach interns the basics of working with a desktop; all they’ve ever used was an iPad and phone.

    It also lead to the destruction of the old web. Back in the early to late ‘90’s, you had to be a nerd to use it. To WANT to use it even. But now that it’s so easy and convenient even my completely tech illiterate dad can get online, things have turned to shit. We never should’ve made it this convenient.

    • Muffi@programming.dev
      0·
      2 years ago

      Trying my best in the Makerspace for kids I help run. They actually love it!

      I get discarded ThinkPads from local companies, and the only way to make them useful is to slap some Linux on there, and then basic stuff like Blender, PrusaSlicer and Godot. It’s been a huge success, especially when we do a Capture-the-Flag tournament, where they have to hide and seek memes using SSH. The feeling of being “a real hacker” seems to be very motivational for the youngsters.

  • cally [he/they]@pawb.socialEnglish
    0·
    2 years ago

    "We set our sights and spent our nights waiting

    For you

    You, insatiable you

    Mommy let you use her iPad, you were barely two

    And it did all the things we designed it to do"

    Bo Burnham’s Welcome to the Internet (2021)

    • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      2 years ago

      It’s honestly a toss up whether sysadmins know what the fuck they’re doing. I’m working on a deal now that’s hampered by the fact that a Linux sysadmin for a huge finserv company doesn’t know how to administer a Linux system.

      This is why the humanities are important: So you learn how to think about a problem and not just rely on someone writing down every goddamn keystroke for you.

        • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          2 years ago

          People who think like you make my job a lot harder.

          How are you supposed to understand instructions when you read at a third grade level?

          How are you supposed to do research to understand an error message if you’ve never looked anything up before?

            • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.worldEnglish
              0·
              2 years ago

              Except we’re not dealing with mathematicians. We’re dealing with sysadmins who must read well and quickly to do their job effectively.

              They need to comprehend complex technical documents. They need to break things down into principles so they can apply them in novel contexts. They need to understand what the words “could not connect on port 4242” means.

              Except they don’t. They get me on the phone, throw their hands up in frustration, and have me push the buttons for them.

              Because they didn’t pay attention in their humanities classes.

              • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
                0·
                2 years ago

                My confusion is that a degree in humanities doesn’t guarantee that someone can create clear instructions or follow then. (Nor does a degree in mathematics but at least there is some logic involved)

                • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  0·
                  2 years ago

                  Being able to express yourself clearly and also read and interpret text is a big part of the humanities. Far too many folks in tech think these are worthless skills to develop and become a pain in my ass.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      2 years ago

      Gen Z/A are good at using tech, but they don’t really know anything about how it works.

      Millennials don’t, either. A tiny fraction of a fraction for technical literacy 20 years ago and now they think they’re top shit because they can write simple CMD commands.

      All this jerking one another off is crazy. I work in the industry and I’m surrounded by people my own age who don’t know what Active Directory is much less Linux.

      • Lostinthecroll@lemmy.world
        0·
        2 years ago

        I guess I’m one of the fractions of a fraction. I remember back in the late 90s when that catastrophe of an OS called Windows ME was plaguing our society. Having to manually change registry keys just to make the damn thing recognize a sound card.

        It makes me sound old but, kids these days have no idea the kind of hell we went through. If/when I have kids I’m going to start them off with DOS 6 and gradually move them up to current OSes. They need to know the pain we went through.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          2 years ago

          t makes me sound old but, kids these days have no idea the kind of hell we went through

          I mean, whose motherboard still needs a sound card in this day and age? But then I could tell you about fiddling with the settings of an old dot matrix printer. I don’t think that qualifies me to set up a Kubernetes cluster or administer a data lake.

          The “you kids today” rants seen to miss how hyper specialized computer hardware and software has become. No, Gen A is going to magically intuit an Azure DevOps Pipeline from first principles. Setting that up feels like I’m working through a Master’s Thesis on arcane file types. People need to stop pretending that knowing a bit of Regex from middle school entitled them to talk shit to a guy ten years their junior struggling with a customized .yaml file.

        • x4740N@lemm.ee
          0·
          2 years ago

          In sorry but this really sounds like boomer-esque mindset

          Why should the younger generation have to go through the struggles of the older generation when those struggles are not relevant today

          I’m gen z myself and I’ve changed Windows registry settings to disable stuff like caudiolimiter and change a few other things but I only learned to do that out of necessity

          Things should not be forced on people unless they want to learn them, people will only learn things they are interested in

          Force them to learn something and they won’t bother actually learning it because they aren’t interested and it won’t stick

          This mindset is the same thing as passing down generational trauma to a a younger generation

      • Ech@lemm.eeEnglish
        0·
        2 years ago

        People don’t need to know how to write a program from scratch to have useful tech knowledge. Knowing basic keyboard shortcuts puts a person above the vast majority of other people in terms of tech literacy.

      • Sanctus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        2 years ago

        Same as it ever was. The only thing that has changed is accessibility. All these discussions seem to miss that. Most people have not, do not, and will not ever care.

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
      0·
      2 years ago

      Oh no, does this mean Gen X are going to be the wisened graybeards that holds arcane knowledge and seemly executes feats of magic when related to technology?

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.worksdeleted by creator
        0·
        2 years ago

        X and the millennials both had to deal with computers that were computers, it’s the people that grew up in the smart phone/tablet era that have no idea what to do in front of an actual computer…

        • TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub
          0·
          2 years ago

          My litmus test is: “Have you tried Linux?”

          Even if they just used a live cd for curiosity, it means they know enough about computers to grasp the concepts that make them versatile, and were exploring around the net enough to read about it.

          • ReputedlyDeplorable@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            0·
            2 years ago

            Now I know I am relatively young (just making the cut off to be considered a Millennial). But my parents were very against allowing kids access to the internet but not ani-technology. As a result I was using a 1996 Toshiba satellite when I was 4yr for Scholastic Reader Rabbit preschool games, but didn’t have regular internet access until I was 15. So I am familiar with the eccentricities of Windows 95, this did help me at work once when we had to use some legacy software from the 90’s that would only run on Win 98. But anyway I only recently have started using Linux in Docker containers for testing environments.

      • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        2 years ago

        Based on how often I have to explain very obvious error messages to ostensibly qualified system admins: Yes.

        (Though I insist I’m the oldest millennial and not Gen x)

      • Zorque@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        2 years ago

        Only the 10% or so that paid attention to “nerd stuff”.

        All the rest are, at best boomer level, at worst smug about being at boomer level.

      • Ech@lemm.eeEnglish
        0·
        2 years ago

        More like Millennials. Gen X may have been around for the duration of the silicon boom, but it was largely niche “nerd shit” when they were kids, and only became widely accessible/acceptable to them with the same changes that have left Gen A lacking basic computer skills. Millennials, though, grew up through the full development of PCs and the Internet and had to learn how to navigate them at their early stages, as well as keep up with the rapid changes. It of course still isn’t universal knowledge there, either, but anyone that used a computer regularly through the early 2000s is going to be levels above most people getting into it now.

        • Redredme@lemmy.world
          0·
          2 years ago

          Tsss, calling me an old nerd on lemmy. You’re a nerd! You’re on Lemmy!

          But yes, i wildly, loudly concur woth most of this thread: my kids can’t be bothered with HOW something works. It just has to work. No interest at all in tcp, udp, whats a bit, byte why is everything in multiples of 8: that’s all nerd shit. And, indeed: my shit. Dad! You’re the nerd: fix this!

    • x4740N@lemm.ee
      0·
      2 years ago

      Gen Z are good at using tech, gen A are still learning how to use tech

    • metaStatic@kbin.earth
      0·
      2 years ago

      if a 3 year old can use a smart phone it’s not because that child is a genius it’s because the phones designer was.

      • x4740N@lemm.ee
        0·
        2 years ago

        NYC = new york city

        This is a translation provided for free by me because this user has defualted to american defaultism

        To the person I’m replying to, THIS IS THE INTERNET, NOT america

        • raef@lemmy.world
          0·
          2 years ago

          If he’s from NYC, he knows what NYC means. If he’s not from there, it doesn’t matter anyway

        • merc@sh.itjust.works
          0·
          2 years ago

          NYC is one of a number of world cities known by acronyms or nicknames:

          • Rio For Rio de Janeiro
          • HK For Hong Kong
          • TJ For Tijuana
          • KL For Kuala Lumpur
          • TO For Toronto
          • Joburg For Johannesburg

          There’s even a whole country that goes by its initials: UK.

          So, stop thinking this is some American thing, it’s just a way that people shorten the names of common cities that have a few too many syllables to be convenient.

    • Allero@lemmy.today
      0·
      2 years ago

      It won’t evaporate, there are plenty of IT folks among youth.

      It doesn’t make sense to characterize users by age brackets - it’s not that millenials are predominantly well-versed.

    • Damage@feddit.it
      0·
      2 years ago

      I was always fascinated by the Middle Ages… The idea that you could live in the ruins of a civilization more advanced than your own is really interesting.

  • Zink@programming.dev
    0·
    2 years ago

    Fortunately my kid is always going to have his own Linux desktop at home. Even though the hardware is older than he is, the PC still runs better than most Windows machines I’ve used recently.

    I commented elsewhere that his school laptop (for 2nd grade, 8 years old) is at least a lightweight Windows PC. And while Windows is much more relevant to the PC & professional world than chromebooks or iPads, it’s still important to not get pigeonholed into that one proprietary thing.