Tfw keeping animals in cages and slaughtering them after 6 months of misery from the comfort of your 21st century life is different from being a feral animal living in the wilderness
eh, veganism doesn’t work for my relatively unique anatomy (if I eat that much fiber I go to the hospital) but were it not for that I’d probably be eating a plant based diet. people tend to know what works for them, and i’m not going to judge them for their dietary choices. Except foie gras.
Add veal to that list too
you know none of the restaurants i go to serve veal, and i’m not sure whether that’s a comment on my poverty or local society saying fuck veal, but either way i had forgotten about it and i think that’s great.
Vegans: exist
People like OP: how dare you make your own choices about your own life that don’t hurt anyone in any way whatsoever
The amount of times I hear “yeah, but everyone else is just gonna eat meat anyway.”
Like…okay, fucking and??
them: excuse me they hurt my feelings
Ah yes, the anti-vegan. Nearly as annoying as the vegan.
I have the same advice for you as I have for vegans: let people eat what they want to eat, mind your business, and keep your preferences to yourself unless you’re asked.
That said there is some irony here because you’re framing this as unreasonable, but we do this all the time with other humans. As an outsider you should treat members of a group differently than they treat each other - unless you’re saying white people should be allowed to drop N bombs lol
I have the same advice for you as I have for vegans: let people eat what they want to eat, mind your business, and keep your preferences to yourself unless you’re asked.
It seems you fundamentally misunderstand what veganism is
I can’t tell if this is tongue in cheek or not.
In case not, you can be secretly vegan, you don’t have to get up in people’s business about it. You can just privately adjust your own diet
It’s not tongue in cheek. You described veganism as a dietary preference, but it is an ethical belief and practice. Keeping silent in the face of unethical behavior is normally seen as cowardly or, at the least, not a general positive. If you came upon a person kicking a child, you would likely want to intervene, not merely think to yourself that you wouldn’t do the same.
Here’s a short medium post that sums it up decently, quoted for your convenience:
Look through the comments of the latest Facebook post that has aroused the ire of non-vegans and you’re bound to see the following:
‘I don’t care if you’re vegan, just respect my choice not to be vegan.’
‘How come a vegan gets mad if you serve them meat but won’t serve you meat.’
Stop telling other people how to eat!
These reactions to the promotion of veganism and vegan food products would make complete sense if veganism were a dietary preference, akin to trying not to consume sugar or not liking pickles. But veganism is an ethical stance against the commodity status of animals. Following a vegan diet results when you follow this philosophy.
When you understand the vegan philosophy, the idea of respecting someone’s choice to needlessly consume animal products no longer makes sense. Advocating that people stop using animals to the greatest extent possible is the ethical thing to do, and condoning animal use immoral. Serving non-vegan food to a vegan is rude but serving vegan food to a non-vegan is acceptable because, while a vegan has a moral conviction against eating animals, a non-vegan doesn’t believe that eating a meal without animal products is unethical. They’ve likely eaten Oreos or peanut butter on toast many times.
https://medium.com/fiercely-gentle/why-do-people-still-think-vegan-is-a-diet-9ae2ec6213e8
Our species were shaped as omnivores, meaning we have a choice of what we want to eat. Don’t forget where we don’t live anymore: the jungle. Just because we used to live in caves doesn’t mean we should live in caves now. Also, they didn’t have McDonald’s in the jungle.
First and foremost: You are correct.
Now allow me to try to be funny: Well… Apartments are just pretty square-ish caves.
(Note that I said “try to be funny”)
After the second world war we also said “never again” but apparently some people missed that memo too.
My man cave is so much more sophisticated than caves from the stone age. I have cats, instead of mountain lions. I have some paintings on the wall… Oh wait, no, that’s not much different. I have central heating instead of a camp fire. And I have to pay a ludicrous amount of rent. So yeah, my cave is much better than ancient caves. I guess…
The redditization of lemmy.world is finally complete. Congratulations, you have ruined the internet.
This is a reddit as fuck comment. Just have fun. Goddammit
it’s been Reddit bro. as much as some still wanna deny, it was cut from the very same cloth.
We’re destroying the Amazon for cattle but haha birds eat rodents lmao gottem
Yeah I like meat but that is a stupid argument unless you hunt all your meals yourself.
Where with all the animals if all went vegan now?
Why are the vegans sounding more like cavemen than the meat-eaters?
I had thought that veganism was more of a beliefs thing: to not eat products of exploitation, but then I heard the honey thing. The honey thing might be just from an overbearing vegan, or I just don’t know the details, but beekeeping just looks so peaceful
OTOL honey thing?
Oh, you haven’t heard about “bee enslavers”? 🤣
AFAIK many (?, please correct) vegans don’t eat honey, and that’s consistent with most of the people I know IRL. It tends to sway between “I try not to eat animal products” and “harvesting honey hurts/exploits bees”, the latter of which may be true for industry-scale honey, but I don’t see why local honey isn’t an option
Local honey isn’t an option for largely the same reason that locally sourced human breast milk isn’t. Even if harvesting it doesn’t hurt the ones producing it, a lot of vegans find it conceptually gross anyway
Edit: a better comparison may be to locally sourced roadkill. You aren’t paying into a system that intentionally runs over squirrels and cats to feed you, but it’s just conceptually bad. I think most vegans would agree that peeling a dead squirrel off of the road and throwing it on the grill is, at the very least, significantly more defensible than buying meat from the store, but they still wouldn’t partake if you offered it to them
Don’t forget where we came from and what shaped us as species
I don’t think anyone argues that we should live solely eating meat
I think you have managed to completely change the subject in a single comment.
I think the problem isn’t that we eat meat. It’s that we torture the animals and have them live in deplorable conditions before we eat them. If we all hunted or raised our own animals or had the animals live in decent conditions it would be less of an issue for most REASONABLE vegans and vegetarians. I used to be vegan and vegetarian a decade so I get it a bit. I hated it when anyone would bitch about other people’s food choices, but then complain when they did the same to them for their food choices. Both sides I mean. I had some non-veggies once they found out I didn’t eat meat would attack me for it. When I did start eating meat again some vegans and vegetarians would attack me for it.
I know that the industry is horrific. I have battled internally with becoming a vegan. And this isn’t a but, it’s just something i thought about once when thinking about the argument that whilst in nature, animals eat other animals, its not the same as what we do as we farma dn torture animals to get the meat…
Its cats…
Cats torture their prey…
They play with it, and maim it and keep it alive for as long as possible so they can chase it, for fun…
And sometimes they just fucking leave it there when it dies.
And we love cats. Even vegans love cats.
And that sort of makes me laugh a bit.
For me, I think the difference is that I have the means and opportunity to reduce (an incredibly minor amount, I know) the suffering of animals everywhere by not eating meat, so I feel somewhat an obligation to do so.
Whereas a cat does not have the knowledge or information or desire to make that sort of decision making. So I love them anyway…I just don’t let them outside so they can’t murder every living thing nearby for fun.
To each his own, that’s just my personal impetus to be meat free.
that’s what the cats want you to think, dummy!
Yeah, I think this is the big difference. We have the capacity to rationalize and introspect. If we can make a change for the better (and know we can), how do we justify not making it?
Sometimes the reason is “it’s hard” or an apathetic “it doesn’t matter”. But I think it’s very difficult to come to the conclusion that it’s (consumption of meat) the correct thing to do.
I say this as someone who commonly falls into the “it’s tough” bucket.
Actually, humans are animals. Once you view them in that light, the “I don’t want to stop eating meat” becomes “I can’t stop eating meat, because I am actually an animal who believe it is above instinct”.
I feel like this ignores the point many are making here.
The statement that we are animals is true. But as many have pointed out, we have the extra layer of reasoning, introspection, and empathy.
We can see the pain and torture subjected on other animals and reson that it is unjustified and empathise with the pain by thinking about how we would feel if in the shoes of the animals being slaughtered. We can look at outlr actions and decide to make a change.
None of this, as far as we know, is possible for any other animal.
This is a huge distinction and one that, as i said, you have either missed or ignored whilst reading these comments.
Sure, we’re animals. Being able to reason and rationalize sure are something too, though.
An important addition is that saying “we are animals” isn’t supposed to cut what we judge to be morally right or wrong.
If anything, “We are animals” must be used to know that other animals may probably have similar introspection as us and we are unaware, thinking o ourselves as special kind of creature when it is far from being true.
If, let’s say hypothetically, a cow do have not only feelings but also moral thought, thinking of a sacred "cow god/goddess) and having moral argument with fellow cows, then it just makes butchering them even more of a “crime” that it is already.
Most of the time, adults don’t torture their prey. Kittens aren’t born with the ability to hunt, and their instincts need to develop too. So the mom brings home live prey for the kittens to play with. Sometimes adults keep this behaviour.
Yeah I was thinking this kind of thing too, but also house cats have all the food they want anyway. Not sure how much each is a factor in this.
Boredom really.
Absolutely, the meat industry needs to be clamped down on hard
But, there are plenty of vegans who also rail against alternatives like lab grown beef which is still meat but bypasses all the problems with the meat industry of today
If lab grown meat were readily available and affordable, I would switch in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I know for a damn fact I dont have the discipline for veganism, bad as the industry is. Also milk and eggs have to be produced somehow no matter what or the animal dies because we bred them like that millennia ago so like might as well eat those anyway
Doesn’t have to be all/nothing. You don’t have to become a vegan, you could still cut down on how much meat you buy. Or only eat what you can kill?
So we domesticated fire, that’s one step out of the swamp and steppes.
Then there was agriculture and animal husbandry, we became sedentary.Writing developed, accelerating growth in the arts, math and engineering, the sciences… we had domesticated knowledge and memory - data storage.
Before we knew it, the printing press popped up and soon after we domesticated something abstract and invisible, awesome and truly fundamental - electromagnetism. That’s is the big game changer right there.
We have figured out our physical place in the universe.
We can image distant supermassive black holes, we have mapped the farthest, faintest reaches of the visible universe using the oldest light there is - the Cosmic Microwave Background (which started out as orange light 13.7 billion years ago).We are now in the process of harnessing sunlight and the wind; the genome; we can now even perform data operations using quantum superimposed electron states, harnessing the subatomic wave function itself.
Surely we can now domesticate cruelty-free protein chemistry. So many steps away from the swamp and steppes already, so far we can’t turn and go back again. What’s one more step?
Next step is extreme longevity IMO. Such a bummer people only have a couple of decades to perfect their skills before it all runs out in the sand.
Get me a lab grown steak any day though!
Lab grown meat is not getting better nor cheaper since a decade, it’s still an ungodly block of stem cells. This is not a political statement, I don’t care if people eat lab grown, but it’s not there yet and to me, it’s off-putting and unnecessary.
Give plant based alternatives a try, there is already a huge variety that differs in taste and texture. Some is okay, some is great. At the moment, capitalism is stuffing it’s pockets with vegan meat money but this stuff is super cheap and easy to make and prices will fall if production numbers go up and there’s even more competition. So no need wait! Choose the food that reduces land use, water pollution and co2 emissions by at least 60%.Ungodly?
Common, get off my lawn.
This is not my native language, I was tying to be funny :)
Okay, sorry, have a nice day!
🌱🌿☘️🍀 I’ll uh go move my lawn …
you cant be cruel to cattle.
Very edgy. Care to elaborate?
Oh wow OP, I didn’t know you were a hunter!
Or are you just a sweaty fatso that posts trash boomer memes and gets meat delivered and wrapped in plastic?
Yeah, thought so.
Aww someone got their fefes hurt in c/shitpost lol, lmao even
Who, you? Because I called you a fatso?
🪞but if that’s what you need to tell yourself to sleep at night I won’t stop ya
What do I need to tell myself to sleep at night?
Can you even construct a sentence that makes sense, follow logic for more than 1 reply? Or is the sack of fat on your forehead is encroaching on your brain?
Get angry at a shitpost ✅
Attempt at personal attack ✅
Attack on Grammer ✅
Second attempt at personal attack ✅I just need 1 more for my troll bingo card!
- You posted rage-bait shit post “attacking” Vegans
- Not even mentioned grammar, just your logic (lmao, you proved my point) (also, it’s ‘grammar’, btw)
- Don’t dish it if you can take it
Second attack on Grammer ✅ BINGO BINGO BINGO
As far as “rage bait” goes, not really, everyone else here didn’t resort to troll tactics. You’re the only one who came in here raging about it LMAO
The survival of the fittest narrative was debunked almost as soon as it existed, and that debunking is what forms the ideological basis of mutual aid. That people continue to spread this toxic misinformation over a century later is a testament to the unfortunate tenacity of lies.
Even in the most brutal depths of the natural world, cooperation is still the overarching basis of ecosystem health. It’s known in Permaculture, for instance, that too much competition results in resource depletions.
A vegan ethic is inline with a growing awareness and need for us all to learn to expand our capacities of empathy and compassion, from those who are most like us, to those who are most unlike us.
On the topic of wilderness areas, vegans are divided on what the right approaches are. Some of us compare natural biomes to sovereign nations - while we dislike the harms that occur in those places, we feel a need to allow other species their independence to have their self-determination, if for no other reason than the fact that nature is the basis of maintaining a habitable planet, and interference in ecosystems should only be done with the utmost care.
But there are other vegans who do believe strongly that we should be intervening in wild places as well, with the goals of eliminating predation all together, and managing wildlife populations in more ethical ways.
It’s a highly contentious topic to be honest.
“fittest” in “survival of the fittest” doesn’t mean strongest or most dominant.
It means “best adapted”.
It can be rephrased as “the species most likely to survive are those best adapted to their environment”So it wasn’t really debunked, per se, the strange perversion of “alpha” survival was debunked. Mutual aid is absolutely an excellent environmental adaptation that leads to survival.
