I hate how “anti-war” has been hijacked by these people to mean, let imperialist countries invade whoever they want with no consequences. (in the case of tankies, any imperialist country that isn’t in NATO).
Similar to how libs view the genocide in palestine.
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I don’t think the average American has that level of planning. It’s more likely people just don’t like Russia invading other countries willy nilly
Make more new accounts, that’ll convince people. Moron.
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It seems unlikely that all the people failing to understand international policy in obvious ways, would have stocks and shares in the armaments sector. It’s more likely that they’re clueless. :)
I didn’t realize America was a hive-mind purely driven to make money for defence contractors.
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Wait, why are tankies siding with magas? I’ve been intentionally away for a minute, what did I miss?
Did something major happen in the last three days? Or is this the usual redirection of hate after we’ve found something to rally around?
Fash and red fash are basically the same thing loyal to different empires.
Maga-Communism is a thing for a while: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Hinkle
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Your description of the tankie position doesn’t explain why they call for Ukraine to surrender like Russia isn’t the aggressor. Leftists in general do realize it’s a proxy war like you said, but we call for the invader to stop invading. Because, you know… The victim of an invasion surrendering doesnt usually lead to good outcomes for the victim.
What an insulting interpretation that yet again ignores Russian responsibility for this war. It was ONLY their decision.
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What do you mean?
If you keep feeding the troll we’ll end up with troll shit all over the lawn.
Russia invading Ukraine is wrong. But the world is full of wrong things. And until America fixes its problems at home, it is deeply immoral to drain the economy and weapon reserves and put our citizenry at risk. Anyone who believes the politicians usual garbage about “protecting democracy” and “standing up to imperialism” is a moron.
Did you know that “own people first/eigen volk eerst” is the slogan of a Belgian far-right neo-nazi party?
There is nothing immoral about helping a people in need.
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You’re very naive to think the US war machine is “helping a people in need”. Even Boris Johnson admitted this is a proxy war. They’re sending ukrainians to die just to mess with Russia. They have no chance of winning anything.
yup. this.
Do you think we have no free will here in Ukraine or something? It’s so easy for you to dehumanize us as some puppets who have no agency and are “sent”, “made”, blah blah blah. Fuck off.
I think our free will is being manipulated by the media, manufacturing consent. This goes for people in Ukraine, Europe, the US, Russia, everywhere.
There are some good Youtube videos on the subject if you’re interested.
I think you would find that bombs being dropped at night on your city, country, your friends and loved ones, schools, theatres ans hospitals, by a “brotherly nation”, whose leader speaks a lot about your country being fake, over the pretence of fighting some “nazis” apparently, would do much more to directly influence your free will than Youtube.
They don’t care about you, they care about the idea of you. Just like how so many idealists self-righteously “fighting” the genocide of Palestinians by being armchair warriors on the internet have never actually talked to any Palestinians. Or even tried to.
Stay safe, my friend. I am sorry America will likely not have your back much longer.
Just to offer you a perspective on what other people think, not that you asked for it but idk, don’t read if you’re not interested :) I’ll be brief.
America not having their back might bring about a truce treaty, which would stop the war, the bombs, the people getting killed. I think across the political spectrum from “tankies” to Trump supporters and everything in between, lots of people are hoping for a fast peaceful outcome.
Your willingness to give land that isn’t yours away is noted.
It’s not my land to give, it just seems to me that trying to take it back doesn’t work, and I question the motives of western states and if they genuinely believe in victory, or if they’re just fueling the war to weaken their enemy.
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3 day operation that is now in its 3rd year…
Isn’t this idea that the conflict was intended to last only 3 days something the media says to portray the russians as weak and incompetent?
Afaik at this stage of the conflict they’re fighting so Ukraine can reclaim its lost territories. They’ve been at this stage for a long time and it doesn’t seem doable. This is why many lefties are against the war. Because if you know there’s no chance to win but you keep fueling the flames, you’re just sending those people to die just to weaken the enemy, which is a pretty shitty thing to do.
Anyway this is just one point of view, might be a very stupid one, but I think it’s worth taking into consideration.
Russia clearly stated at the start it would only take them 3 days. Russian officers had pre-booked tables in Kyiv restaurants on the 4th day. They were that confident it was going to be over that quickly.
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Ah, of course. This explains why Musk bought the election.
Speaking of money, that’s a whole lot of cookies they wanted me to accept at that website.
I wonder how these people would feel if there were individuals that would argue for thieves to break into their homes and take it over.
“I don’t want anything of mine stolen! they broke in!”
“But sir, why don’t you want people to have a place to live in? Make peace with it!”
Don’t forget… They broke into your house, took over your living room, killed 2 of your family members in there and said “Let’s make an election”. Surprisingly, they won the election in your living room, because dead people can’t vote and they were allowed to vote, too.
It’s more like you fight your roommate and his friends come over to bully you. You get some weapon once in a while through the window. Still you are on your own vs 10. Also from outside they instruct you to use your young children to fight.
I kind of tapped out on paying attention to this conflict, I’m already losing enough sleep over the genocide in Gaza.
With the conflict in Gaza, my opinion is that a ceasefire would be best, followed by an abolition of the apartheid state by means similar to how the one in SA was abolished (forced by global divestment like that enforced by 1986 US anti-apartheid act, etc). On a moral level, this solution feels unsatisfying. So much land has been stolen from the Palestinians, and part of me wants them to fight and win it all back, so advocating for a peaceful resolution hurts. But I also know that realistically, continuing to pursue armed conflict will only result in more Palestinian deaths, and more loss of territory, so I reluctantly join protests in favor of a ceasefire.
I realize that the conflicts are different. Russia is much more powerful than Israel, the Palestinian ethnic cleansing has been going on for decades, etc. So I don’t know what to feel about the Ukraine conflict. The pro-peace POV I’ve already heard. Ceasefire, concede Crimea to Russia, Ukraine becomes non-NATO zone, and the killing stops. For the pro-war people in the Ukraine conflict, what are you hoping for, and what facts make you feel this hope is realistic?
The thing is sort of similar to the Gaza conflict. Who guarantees a ceasefire, who takes up arms to defend that ceasefire if necessary? Precisely there lies the difference. Russia is nuclear power and has veto power in the security counsel of the UN. Amy nation that were to guarantee Ukraine would inevitably get into a major conflict with Russia - a major military power. And because only Western nations are interested in guaranteeing Ukraine, if Russia were to violate the ceasefire - it would be immediately involve NATO and you’d have WW3. Now here’s a point that is similar to the Gaza conflict. Russia has a track-record of violating all contracts and agreements they signed. There’s the memorandum that forced Ukraine to return the nukes they had after the dissolution of the USSR- in return of sovereignty of Russia. There’s a signed allowance of Russia for Ukraine to join NATO and the EU from the early 2000s. And more than I can recall from memory.
While it would technically be possible to force Israel to do what the US/EU wants, by many means. It would be difficult to force groups such as Hamas, Hisbollah, the Houthis to do anything without Iran backing and enforcing such a deal. Something I highly doubt to happen, without Iran losing all backing by other countries. No one can force Russia to do anything besides possibly China, which they won’t. The US/NATO could as well, but that would mean direct military engagement, something everyone is desperate to avoid - because no one knows how sane Russian leadership would act in retaliation.
Frankly though I believe that all attempts to pacify the world right now are not in the interest of neither the parties in the Gaza conflict as well as Iran, Russia, China and North Korea. They are clearly showing over and over again with their hybrid warfare that any and all attempts at a peaceful solution would necessitate a believable threat of the US to actually dismantle the entire Russian military.
EDIT: lot of downvotes, no replies.
Lol your comment is currently 4 hours old, and you have a reply that’s 3 hours old. Maybe try waiting more than an hour this isn’t reddit. It might take longer to get a reply, but it probably won’t just be a stupid meme.
I don’t understand how other communists can defend Russia at this point. It feels to me like most of them forget that Russia is no longer a communist country.
They’re capitalists. Putin is often using christo-fascist tactics. He’s also pushing for Russian imperialism in very capitalistic ways. Also, Russia was 100 percent the agitators here.
Just because it challenges US worldwide hegemony doesn’t automatically make it good, boys.
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Seriously. Those dumb Iraqis who fought back deserved to die.
Tankies might as well be called CINOs — communists in name only. Their defining feature is reverence towards authoritarian leaders. They revere Putin and Xi as “strong” leaders and completely ignore how little their regimes have in common with the socialist workers paradise Marx envisioned.
I’ll stick with “Cosplay Commies”.
Do you know what you’ve done!? You’ve summoned him! He’s like Beetlejuice, say three Marxist terms and he appears. Combie will be here soon.
I especially despise how Putin and Xi were seen as ‘strong’ leaders, but when shit hit the fan in the last 5 years, they just hid away from repercussions
My favorite is when they argue that China has billionaires and private property and a stock market because Marx said you have to go through capitalism to get to communism. Which… doesn’t somehow also apply to the West?
Gee I wonder who you could be referring to mmmmhhh gee I really wonder.
Tankies?
Sorry I dropped the /s somewhere
What makes you say they don’t think it applies to the West? I don’t follow your logic there.
Because if you tell them China is just as capitalist as the West, they tell you it absolutely isn’t and is a communist country.
Ok but China is absolutely not as capitalist as the west, and that’s an insane thing to say.
I’d buy that line if China wasn’t integrating those large businesses (albeit slowly) into the public sector, something the west is not doing, but rather moving to deregulate more and more (Thanks Trump! /s)
And yet it’s still not a communist country. I get that you want it to be a communist country, but it isn’t.
You won’t see me argue that China is communist, it’s socialist as it stands now with the stated goal of becoming communist
Can someone show me where all the tankies are? All I ever see is anti-tankie propaganda like this and its seems like a straw man to me. Where are the Leftists who defend Russian aggression?
/c/endlesswar
In this fucking post, for starters.
Did you ask that before or after scrolling down and reading the comments doing exactly that?
perfectly agree with the meme, that said I’ve tried to make the same argument to people IRL and their response usually is “well Ukraine provoked them by trying to join NATO” and being the absolute dumbass that I am, I can never come up with a decent answer on the spot.
does anyone have a cool one liner to use or am I stuck with having to explain the various geopolitical issuesThe idea of Ukraine joining NATO was literally unimaginable before Russian aggression. After the fall of the soviet union there were multiple agreements like the Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine and Budapest Memorandum that basically established Ukraine as a sovereign and neutral nation under the protection of the west and east. Even after Russian interventions in Ukraine and finally the taking of Crimea, NATO members like Germany were still vocal about never letting Ukraine in.
Also if Russia truly cared about NATO expansion, how come we barely hear anything about Finland and Sweeden? I occasionally even forget they’re a part of it now.
Shows how little u know. Ukraine literally put NATO into the constitution prior to 2022.
Then zelensky tried to get nuclear weapons.Again - don’t follow msm, they have an agenda.
Citation needed.
The Ukranian constitution has no amendments even mentioning NATO.
And Zelenky demanding nuclear weapons is a recent development. So not “tried” but “trying right now”. Not even the Russians claimed such prior.
And I don’t watch MSNBC or whatever else “msm” is supposed to be. Bold of you to assume I not only watch American news, but also a specific broadcaster. That’s got to be like a less than 50% chance.
MSM is mainstream media rather than a broadcaster. I actually hear it a lot from conservatives who are somehow convinced that Fox News isn’t mainstream media despite being the USA’s most watched network.
And you surely don’t have an agenda.
That’s why you come here with lies lmao
I don’t care about Ukraine. I don’t want my money going into military to support a country that has universal health care while I still do t have universal health care.
Fund universal healthcare, not Ukraine or Israel.
UHC is cheaper than the current US healthcare system. You can literally have both.
Funding for Ukraine isn’t holding up UHC. Bad politicians are.
Someone needs to force their hand, if you just give them what they want anyways, there is no reason for them to do anything for u
Not sure punishing Ukrainians who are being raped and murdered in their own homes forces their hand in any way whatsoever. Seems like the least efficient way to do it.
I think you need to learn how the Military-Industrial Complex works, because if weapons aren’t going to Ukraine, and it sounds like they won’t, you still won’t get your socialized medicine. Especially not in an oligarchical fascist dictatorship.
We the people should get stubborn and refuse to support the goals of military industrial complex as long as they keep refusing us our goals.
I get absolutely nothing from Israel achieving it’s goals of killing brown neighboring people and clearing space for themselves. Nothing.
Ukraine - u know what! I don’t care about it. Just cut a deal for mutual management of Ukraine and equal economic access. I don’t care about Ukraine winning or Ukraine being a strong country in eastern Europe. I do not care. It’s outside of my interests as a private citizen, only military industrial complex wants that war.
What are you doing to get “we the people” to do that other than arguing on the internet?
Fair, but it misses the trees for the forest. The US already pays WAY more for healthcare than any other country. The money is literally there, just mismanaged. While I feel your frustration, simply cutting aid to allied countries won’t change anything domestically.
They are not allied countries for me.
Israel is a genocidal regime and Ukraine is just a shithole in eastern Europe.I don’t need these as allies.
I get absolutely nothing, 0 from funding them. Cut themReally? You’re going to complain about one country’s genocide and justify another in the same sentence? At least be consistent
Okay so DO something about YOUR healthcare then.
Ukraine literally put NATO into the constitution prior to 2022.
Everyone knows that’s how becoming a NATO member works!
The EU works that way too! You tell them you want to join, make it super official that you pretty please want to join, and then you’re in!
NATO members like Germany were still vocal about never letting Ukraine in.
I sometimes think that it was exactly because they expected things to go as they did. If they let Ukraine in, they would need to
weasel out of helpinghelp, after allIn the case of Finland, it’s because they kicked Russia’s ass last time and they would do it again.
We lost, both times.
They just have to announce that they’ve cloned Simo Häyhä and Russia won’t even look at them sideways.
“So a nation is not allowed to make its own decision about defense or else Russia just gets to have it?”
“Nations beg to join NATO which is very reluctant and has a long drawn out entry prices”
The husband who beats his wife analogy might work. “She deserved it, she thought about going to the police” Another thing, even if it was predictable doesn’t make it wrong to help Ukraine no matter what.
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The husband who beats his wife analogy might work.
These are the same people who support Trump and putin soooo
It basically comes down to this: being a sovereign nation means being allowed to choose your own alliances.
Calling it a “provocation” is denying Ukraine sovereignty over their own country.
Which is fundamental misunderstanding of international politics according to Political Realism. Hegemonic powers never care about these de jure arguments anyway and will practicality always act in accordance to int’s own intressets, leaving weaker nations to navigate it.
Hegemonic powers
You can just say Russia you know. And yes, we know Russia doesn’t care about de jure arguments, they only understand power and violence. De-jure arguments are just a tool to them to give talking points to useful idiots in the West, in order to sow division and weaken us.
Political Realism
The question really is: do we accept a world where a third-rate regional power gets to trample all over its neighbors, using unimaginable violence and cruelty if those neighbors refuse to act as submissive client states?
From a moral and legal point of view, it’s a no-brainer to argue that we should not accept this, but even from your a-moral “real politik” point of view we should not accept it either because it goes squarely against our own interests to let a rogue state Russia regain its former superpower status by conquering major client states. Europe and the US are much stronger than Russia, so even your Political Realism dictates that we should help Ukraine defeat Russian aggression.
So yeah, there is no world in which “bUt UkRaInE pRoVoKeD RuSsIa” is a valid argument. If you think there is, you can burn in hell with Kissinger for all I care.
You can just say Russia you know.
Alright. Consider it done and now your response is some sort of recognition that that what i said is the case but this well established, hundreds of years old field of political theory is devilish trick by our enemies to devise us. Which does nothing to strengthen your shallow view on national sovereignty.
As already hinted at: Political Realism is a fucking theory of international relations. It’s used to explain things in reality. So you have to understand that it’s true for every hegemonic power. It’s not unique to Russia. Do you think that the US lead invasion of Afghanistan was respecting their sovereignty? They had no obligation to extradite Bin Laden and we got to see what it meant to not dance to their pipe. The list can go on ad nauseam, we have a couple of thousand years of ‘whatabouts’ here. There is no need to pretend that this is some weird trick of our enemies to divide and fool you, it’s an observable fact about international politics. And it absolutely does you no favors to have this self-sealing mind in the face of it. Weaker nations have always, and will continue, to curtail their own sovereign choices in favor of navigating the interests of greater powers and kept as much sovereignty as they can. Sure they have the radical free will to do anything, but in reality things happens as a result… even if you don’t like it. And hence a field of science to understand this process, that looks a-moral due to a lack of having it observed.
Heck, I see that you sort of get the principles of the political theory. As you said, it’s in the west interest to not have Russia attack her neighbors. So it manages to describe both Russias actions and the West response to it. It will even describe the limits of our support.
So a better counter to “bUt UkRaInE pRoVoKeD RuSsIa” is to say yes, but I want a want a weak Russia.
And the annexation of crimea was not provoking and pressuring them to search for defense from NATO?
It was never about land, it’s about not letting Ukraine become more westernly oriented. https://youtube.com/watch?v=MhpoNL1gZbw
When we keep talking about it just being about land we let Russia get closer to their actual goals.
“become more westernly oriented” is a strange way to say “stop being a Russian vassal state”
Reddit’s finally fucking breathable after we yeeted out all the autistic, incestuous morons. The place is free from the stench of virgin losers who can’t even get a bot to fuck them, and the endless, retarded arguments that made you want to lobotomize yourself.
Enjoy your echo chamber, you pathetic, basement-dwelling virgins. You’re the ones who waste good money to lick the diseased, saggy asses of Biden and other brain-dead politicians, all while patting yourselves on the back for your so-called ‘enlightenment’.
Meanwhile, the rest of us adults can have a real conversation. We’re not suffocated by the reek of your collective mental retardation and chronic virginity. We can finally talk without the constant reminder of how fucking low the human race can sink. And we certainly don’t have to put up with the fuck niggers and jews who seem to infest every goddamn corner of this shithole
All the shitstain MAGAts should serve in the Russian infantry.
All the shitstain MAGAts should serve in the Russian infantry.
you’ve been played by the same media machine that keeps denying you a right for health care.
No american should support arming Ukraine or Israel for as long as they keep denying us the essentials - right to health care or working rights like mandatory vacations.we should deny military industrial complex their wars for as long as they denying us what we want.
The European countries, like Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, etc…that have superb healthcare and mandatory vacations are supporting Ukraine with military weapons. You should move to fucking Russia or any country occupied or heavily influenced by the shithole and and then tell me about your rights. I understand your comment and yes the US healthcare system is a massive dumpster fire and the defense budget is out of control.
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New account with 2 nonsensical comments reaching for anything to refute in this thread?
Fuck off, shill, you fool nobody
What exactly is Ukraine denying you?
This is your usual real conversation?
US and Ukraine puppet rulers 100% instigated the war, and are the one who want it to continue. It is categorically false that Russia is interested in ruling all of Ukraine. Tolerating or believing such BS ensures your own oppression. Every US war is tolerated because you are brainwashed into stories of their leader deserving US aggression. War/sanctions is not for your benefit. Pressing for nuclear war with your absurd lies and tolerance for demonic diminishment of world is bad for you too.
There seems to be a “wokeness” over propaganda for Israel genocide, Syria insurection, and every single other war and coup the US is involved in, and the corporatist oligarchist propaganda subjugating you, and meant to subjugate you. When you humanize such disgusting lying propaganda as Russia is the one who is the aggressor in Ukraine, your idiocy fully guarantees your oppression, and you get these disappointing expectations that NYT can be “left wing” while neocon/Israel first oligarchist liars instead.
What an insane rambling of lies you’ve put together there.
You have apparently never lived under Soviet occupation and I strongly suggest you read up on it before you even try to spew such garbage again.
US and Ukraine puppet rulers 100% instigated the war, and are the one who want it to continue.
So you’re saying Russia doesn’t want the war to continue? So why are they fighting in Ukraine then? What are their actual goals and when will the invasion stop?
It is categorically false that Russia is interested in ruling all of Ukraine.
What evidence makes you so sure, and how do you explain the fact that Russia tried to invade Kyiv? Or do you disagree that Russia tried to invade Kyiv?
So you’re saying Russia doesn’t want the war to continue? So why are they fighting in Ukraine then? What are their actual goals and when will the invasion stop?
When Ukraine agrees to stay neutral and not join NATO. That simple. Same as prior to war, or 1 month after war. They would idealy denazify, or at least eliminate persecutory anti-Russian laws, or if they don’t allow referendums for anti-nazi regions to join Russia.
What evidence makes you so sure, and how do you explain the fact that Russia tried to invade Kyiv? Or do you disagree that Russia tried to invade Kyiv?
The siege of Kyiv did motivate Ukrainian peace talks. Was likely a mistake to withdraw in good faith based on agreement in talks.
What’s the principle behind Russia being allowed to prevent Ukraine or another country from entering alliances? Why doesn’t this same principle apply to the Baltic states? And if Russia were to successfuly capture all of Ukraine, would it then have a right to demand similar neutrality from Moldova, Romania, and other states it would then borders? And does the same principle apply the other way - i.e. would it have been just for NATO to say Belarus can’t ally with Russia when Lukashenko took over and invaded them?
The US just had an election where the most pro Israel candidate was unanimously approved by entire political establishment. CIA owns every candidate in every foreign democracy, and for some reason needs NGOs in Georgia too. Existential questions about “sovereignty” have to be considered within context of evil and democracy itself, the best vector for pure evil and corruption. “Foreign influence” democracy talking points include allowing all US/Israel foreign influence and blocking all other. Romania SC corruption recently is extreme intervention to ensure NATO slavery.
What’s the principle behind Russia being allowed to prevent Ukraine or another country from entering alliances?
A different way to word this is why should Ukrainians be FORCED to suicide themselves and their property/prosperity to serve US ambitions of diminishment of Russia? The unliberated portions have lost the right to elections, and Zelensky’s platform was the exact opposite of war with Russia. Russia led the Minsk peace process to provide autonomy to Ukraine’s nazi persecuted eastern provinces. West’s hypocritical participation to delay in order to arm the nazis, was still acknowledging Ukraine’s nazi problem. Time to give nazis stronger ruler over Ukraine is your “what principle/right of interference is there”.
Ukraine and Canada should be free to diversify their trade. It is in their interests to be friendly with large trading partner. Russia should be allowed to build nordstream expansion when Ukraine chose extortionist fees for the pipelines in their country. US policy on nordstream has been a specfic war on Europe, extortionist profits to fund US weapon sales.
When you invoke the “axiom” of sovereignty to justify extreme evil and manipulated destruction of the sovereign, nuclear strikes on the root of the evil get justified by resistance to evil, whether or not you classify it as more evil, because you’re just asserting the right to fabricate war, and there is no principle that says you are right to win such a war.
And if Russia were to successfuly capture all of Ukraine, would it then have a right to demand similar neutrality from Moldova, Romania, and other states it would then borders?
NATO needs to be disbanded, and democracy restored to its members. If current corrupt subjugation persists, and Europe devoted to suicide for US empire power maximization, then certainly defense against NATO will depend on power balance to defend against NATO. US, adhering to its unprincipled invocation of evil pretending to be principle, has no moral issue in supporting Israel taking territory on “buffer zone pretext” followed by Israel 3 days later announcing that “this is great land to expand settlements in”, while bombing Southern Syria independents it pretends is ISIS, while arming/bribing actual ISIS in cooperation with Turkey support for same groups.
If principle mattered, secession of people who don’t like their rulers would be promoted. That they need protection from an ally by joining a different empire is unfortunate, but realist.
The crackheads elsewhere in this thread shout demonism of “Remember the history of soviet union” to justify evil today. It’s an unprincipled world.
Weird. Even the Libertarian CATO institute agrees with you:
The U.S. and NATO Helped Trigger the Ukraine War. It’s Not ‘Siding With Putin’ to Admit It
Nazi apologist 🥳
Ad hominem’s, sad 😔 I’m more concerned with historical facts:
The Eurasian Chessboard: Brzezinski Mapped Out “The Battle for Ukraine” in 1997
It’s all about maintaining the US position as the world’s sole superpower
I wouldn’t say “Nazi apologist” is an ad hominem… It seems directly related to the discussion at hand.
I wasn’t aware Ukraine or Russia were National Socialists. Reducto ad Hitlerum.
Is there a “trying to fit everything you don’t like into a fallacy in order to dismiss it outright” fallacy?
There is the “fallacy fallacy,” but that’s slightly different I believe (though you’re also doing that one).
But I’ll indulge: You know nobody was referring specifically to the National Socialist party of 1930s Germany. Don’t be obtuse.
If you try to infer that the argument of your opponent can be dismissed because of their character, then it is a clear argumentum ad hominem
Ah yes, ancap libertarians. Lemmy users are famously fans of them and their philosophy.
US and Ukraine puppet rulers 100% instigated the war
k
Putin said in a speech in Feb 2022 that the idea of Ukraine as an independent nation is a fiction and blames Lenin for its existence. He has always believed the entire area belongs to Russia as he said it himself.
Irrelevant context of insulting Ukraine. All that matters is conditions for ending/avoiding war. Not history that in restrospect proves Ukrainians to be assholes.
Peace-loving Russia could easily end this War of Ukrainian Aggression by no longer having its military inside Ukrainian borders. For some reason, they just love peace too hard to stop shooting.
The fuck are you on about? Yanukovych, a known Russian puppet, being deposed means that US and Ukraine instigated the war?
Most of these “woke” people are also against the genocide of Palestinians, but go on I suppose.
Yanukovych was not a Russian puppet. IMF scuttled EU deal that he worked to sign. Unrealistic/electoral suicide conditions were placed on IMF loan. He wisely chose a Russian loan instead with no conditions. Black flag (US/Nazi) attack on protesters blamed on Yanukovych was the coup. CIA/State handpicked replacements for government, nazi massacre in Odessa, and apartheid ethnostate laws, led to liberation of Crimea. Russia’s peaceful Minsk process to provide autonomy to Donbas was used as a delay tactic by Empire to arm Ukrainians, but implicit in their participation was acknowledging Ukraine’s nazi problem, and nazi shelling of Donbas. Zelensky admitted his electoral campaign to implement Minsk and denazify Ukraine was a lie. Russian patience telling Ukraine it was time to end the BS with border troop amassments was met with increased massacres of Donbas civilians.
1 month after special operation started, Ukraine had agreed to Russia’s peace terms. US/UK bribed Zelensky into suiciding to the last Ukrainian instead. Blinken/US admitted it is a “strategic imperative to diminish Russia” which cannot be a view simulataneously held without provoking/perpetuating the war that is sold as a jobs program for weapons workers, and “future American control” (Blackrock is American and freely gives all its profits to all Americans) of Ukraine’s resources.
When pathethic evil lies that the 2014 Ukraine coup had any “Ukrainians love” component to it is repeated, you implicitly support every other lie of the US empire. Yeltsin was awesome liberator, and Putin terrible and corrupt is simply brainwashing based on each leader’s level of US empire puppetry. The only puppets in the world are those loyal to CIA. The rest are doing their best to survive through alliances/trade not subjugated to US subjugation.
How do you even pretend to know what you’re talking about when so many of these lies are so damn obvious?
Can I have some of what you’re having?
As long as you can use google translate for the talking points, I imagine you could do it too.
ChatGPT might even be the better option here. People give it a lot of flak, but it understands context better than Google Translate.
Ukraine violated minsk agreements. I’m tired of pretending otherwise.
Read less msmIn an interview to Semen Pegov in 2024 former head of DPR Alexander Borodai explained that, in military terms, the Russian intervention in Ukraine should have started already in 2014 but Russia was not ready for that in economic, military and propaganda sense, which is why Russia entered the Minsk Agreements with no intention of complying, but it gave it time to prepare the full-scale invasion.
Straight from the horse’s mouth. Ukraine was forced to sign those agreements at gunpoint. Russia violated it repeatedly and never fully implemented it. And Borodai confirms Russia never intended to keep to the terms.
They are Western-imperialists what did you expect ?
Lie less.
First to yourself, then to everyone you poison with your presence.
F Ukraine, they are not my problem
So you admit that you hate Ukraine and this is why you’re spouting bullshit lmao
I admit that I hate when propaganda machine whips people into supporting causes they should not care about.
I have 0 to gain from Israel killing Muslims or Ukraine fighting Russia.
This is exactly the same media companies that deny you a right to health care and sustain first past the poll system that keeps 2 shit parties in power.
When media machine tells u to do something - u need to do the fucking opposite.Deny them war, for as long as they deny u right for UHC.
This is where I’m going to have to tell you that I have more to gain from Ukraine fighting Russia than any American politican does. You see, I’m from a country that would be first in line to be invaded by Russia if NATO ceased to exist. I’ll never trust Russia the country, regardless of any purported left-right leaning of their leadership, farther than I could throw it. Which is less than one planck length because it’s a pretty big country, attached to the planet, I can’t throw it anywhere.
That’s not to say I hate all Russian people or anything. Most of the ones I’ve known have been chill and hate Putin too.
Some three decades ago, us Estonians, along with our brothers in Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine and many other country, managed to become free of Russian oppression. Nobody wants it again, and clearly Ukrainians are pretty proud of their independence too, otherwise they’d be laying down their arms en masse.
I do wish there could be peace, but Putin’s ego won’t allow him to settle without any significant territorial gains and while there’s war, I for sure am rooting for Ukrainians who, idk if you’ve heard, this, are the defensive side in this war. They did not roll tanks into Russia out of the blue.
Bot detected. Russia violated ‘Trilateral Statement’ in 1993, when Ukraine agreed to transfer its nuclear warheads to Russia in exchange for security. And what do you think happened next, dum dum?
Most of these “woke” people are also against the genocide of Palestinians, but go on I suppose.
Unfortunately, not sure about that,
How many people want Gaza, and Palestine to do the peace, without even talking about a two states solutions…
I often see, “we want the peace” but, that just mean, israel, you should calm on terror. Nothin more.
Its really like this meme, but for Palestine,I’m woke,
The democratic one-state solution would make whatever that state would be named (Israel/Palestine/Whatever) majority-Arab and majority-Muslim. That is why people should rationally be for it (because it’s an apartheid state otherwise) and should understand that it is the only roadmap to peace between Israelis and Palestinians that does not involve one group wiping out the other.
I agree, that why i said “without even”,
Because actually, that’s even not a state. On the status etc ok, but for real, they have no independance, to say outloud their conditions. They depends of others arabs states.But for the one state, without Israel being a Jew nation, national socialism for zionist and without a constitution…, there is a long road, and this road have to start somewhere. Recognizing the legitimacy of the palestinians as people, is maybe a start.
Is true, i read that on flathearth.net
MAGAts are either too stupid to realize or too fragile to acknowledge that they’re getting ass-fucked by putin. It’s just pathetic.
It’s so bizarre to see those old Soldiers of Fortune readers, with their “Better dead than red” tee shirts, all now rooting for Russia.
Are you aware the Biden administration hasn’t spoken to Putin’s staff in two years?
Is there, in your analogy, a macho, straight, totally non anal-sex-related kind of dignity in that refusal to communicate with a nuclear adversary?
I just listened to Tucker Carlson interview Sergei Lavrov. Is that me just going to town on Putin’s veiny cock? Is this whole thing just a big revealer of who’s really gay and who’s not?
I just listened to Tucker Carlson interview Sergei Lavrov.
Thanks for giving us ample reason to not care about your opinions.
Yes. You are going to town on his weiny cock.
