CAFE by GE for those who are wondering.
We are renovating our house including all new appliances. I have told my partner to make sure we get non smart appliances. This is why.
Yes I can setup a VLAN for it to be on but that’s not the point.
Seems to me like they do not know how to make a good oven.
That’s a big, honking “no” from me.
It’d be one thing if the “smart” features were there but only supplemented the basic functionality. It’s another entirely for those basic features to require an internet connection.
Out of curiosity, did the product description indicate the internet connection was required? I’m soon to be replacing some appliances and want to know what to look out for (besides all mentions of “wifi” or “smart”).
did the product description indicate the internet connection was required?
That’s an important question.
That said, we were recently appliance shopping and none of them said that it was required, but a couple of the negative reviews mentioned it.
We ended up choosing one of the very few that didn’t list wifi or an app as a feature. Hopefully there isn’t a stealth modem hidden in there somewhere. I guess we’ll find out next week when it’s delivered…
Thanks for the additional insight.
A coffee maker, I’d just return. But a dishwasher, refrigerator, oven, etc would be a huge hassle I’d want to avoid. I think my best bet, like you said, is to just look for one that has absolutely no mention of w-fi or “smart”.
they’re using the Wi-fi radiation to cook your meals /s
Thats really, really dumb. I can understand maybe wanting the option of having your oven ping your phone when the timer goes off, but what could it possibly need internet access for in order to turn on the heating element and a fan for a set period of time??
It doesn’t need it. That’s exactly the point.
Even though air frying doesn’t need Internet, the manufacturer is restricting that feature as a way to force you to set up the WiFi, so they can then slurp up all your data.
They’re literally holding the feature hostage, as motivation.
Is data on when I turn the oven on, and how long I run it for, even worthwhile? Or do you think it’s sniffing out other info from my network?
I’ve honestly come to the conclusion that some companies have management that actually believes its worth while to collect the most meaningless telemetry data, even after the ridiculous cost of bandwidth, database storage, hosting, etc. which all become more bonkers the larger the dataset. I’ve seen the cloud bills for actual useful data, I don’t want think about how much they must be paying AWS/Azure/GCP to host such worthless data. There’s no way its at all profitable to do so
Is data on when I turn the oven on, and how long I run it for, even worthwhile?
They wouldn’t be holding you hostage for it if it wasn’t.
Nah. Corporations aren’t all knowing godlike beings. They are run by stupid people who make mistakes, just like us.
At the bare minimum, they’re going to use that data to figure out, on average, how much use it gets while under the warranty period. They’ll use that to further cut corners on the materials or other design considerations.
I had a bakery/kiosk mix of shop, where I baked bread every morning for 13 years or so. There was a customer who questioned my oven, because she actually does not know if it really radiates. And how I can be this sure about it. Its a damn oven! Like one in every household, just a bit bigger. People are really this dumb. Besides, it wouldn’t be legal… oh man still upsets me. Not because of being accused for, but it upset me that people like her have the right to vote.
they’re using the Wi-fi radiation to cook your meals
You’re thinking of microwaves.
That could work if you amped the waves up and trapped them in a confined, isolated space, no?
I’m not sure if that’s possible, but if, not in this size. You would probably need an oven in the size of an entire truck maybe? It probably needs lot of energy for both, isolating and transforming/amping the signal. At that point the power going in to transform the signal could be used more efficiently otherwise to achieve the same goal without Wi-fi (as those small microwaves proves it).
Maybe if you could amp up the wattage by a 1000 fold, sure
We’re not trying to be efficient, we are trying to be innovative!
Listen, the Behemoth probably wouldn’t even survive a shot from the wifiaser.
The microwave region extends from 1,000 to 300,000 MHz (or 30 cm to 1 mm wavelength).
Source: https://www.britannica.com/science/electromagnetic-radiation/Microwaves
2.4Ghz, and 5Ghz are microwaves. Your typical microwave oven operates at about 2.45GHz due to resonance frequency of water. 2.4Ghz wifi is literally a typical microwave’s neighbor.
The difference is sheer amount of power and shielding. Not the type of radiation.
It may very well be. However, with how matter-of-factly you said it, some people might not think it’s a joke.
The water resonance thing is a myth, AFAIK. Strong absorption is actually a bad thing for a microwave oven, because then it would only heat the surface. The way they work is effectively bouncing the radiation through a barely-absorbing dielectric thousands of times, to get the effect really even.
The frequency is probably just an easy one to build magnetrons for.
The frequency is probably just an easy one to build magnetrons for.
The real reason is that that range is reserved for consumer devices so that it doesn’t interfere with actual ISM sanctioned communications as enforced by the FCC. We just also decided to put wifi in the same range cause they’re stingy releasing frequencies for public use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_radio_band#Frequency_allocations
But research was done on it cause of course it has been.
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0031-9120/39/1/006
This article deals with the generation of microwaves in the oven and includes the operation of the magnetrons, waveguides and standing waves in resonant cavities. It then considers the absorption of microwaves by foods, discussing the dielectric relaxation of water, penetration depths of electromagnetic waves in matter and, in considering the possible chemical changes during the microwave heating, multi-photon ionization or dissociation.
So you’re likely right that it’s not water resonance, but chassis cavity resonance. I can’t say that I’ve read deeply into it. And thinking about it I remember hearing something about some of the high level stuff that I just read in relation to this article. I probably ran into it in passing and just failed to recall it. But to be frank, I’m okay just calling it voodoo wizardry in of itself. But I have to understand wireless communications stuff for my profession, and it’s well known that it’s basically the same range as wifi 2.4ghz/bluetooth/other consumer standards that sit in the same crowded space.
For OUR best experience ( not yours )
F&&& that. Send it back.
We can’t say the word “Fuck” here? Serious question; why did you self censor?
Do what you like, friend, as I did. Why? I don’t swear a lot in person, and for me, I communicate the same online and off.
But then just don’t say fuck at all? It’s just an odd choice to specifically choose to write that word, but then feel the need to censor it because you don’t want to actually write it? Either say it or don’t.
It is an odd choice to argue over such a thing. No one was harmed in the making of the first comment. Or the second. If anything, that person is being completely reasonable instead of demanding what others should do.
Okay, now I’m arguing. They just asked why. Because they wanted to understand. I’m curious too. No one’s “damanding” anything…
Good point. Not everyone swears like a trooper. I’m ex British army so can live with it. But I wouldn’t swear in mixed company or in front of my daughter, even though she is over 21.
To each his own, of course, but coy swearing is still swearing.
Actually I do sympathise. I swear too much (but not more than the average Aussie) and wish I could train myself to use some other intensifiers in my language but most of them lack intensity. By Jove! My word! Sweet zombie Jesus! Drokk!
Ugh I see CAFE in all caps and all I can think of corporate average fuel economy
They are smart because they know how to spy on you without telling you.
Why the fuck can’t we make things hot without the internet? FFS
Fire: “I got you, bro.”
A fire is what you may get when a hacker decides to turn the oven on for you.
It’s like playing Zomboid, but you don’t actually have to break into the house to put your clothes in the oven and turn it on.
Closer to how the first Megaman Battle Network starts as the scenario cmnybo mentioned is exactly what happens.
It’s so the AI can reminder you to buy chicken nuggets, if you plan on having them every night next week as well.
I bought one of those ge induction ovens to swap out a gas one. The only smart feature I liked was the ability to turn my oven on to preheat from my phone. Guess what feature just doesn’t work no matter the tech support help i get with it.
I worked for a phone manufacturer a few years ago. We’d get callers who were referred to us by shitty IOT vendors who wanted to insist their buggy apps just didn’t work because our phone broke it and not because their crappy IOT “features” were clearly tossed together by lowest bidder contractors they stopped paying 2 years ago. The number of IOT devices I just referred the customer to the Google Play reviews and read them the first 5 reviews that all detail various bugs in the companion app was concerning to say the least
Maybe you can buy a DLC to have additional functionality. Or you need to pay micro transactions with each cooking. No money is wasted.
Any smart feature must be optional.
I have smart lights at home, none is required to get light in the rooms, they are only used for mood lighting.
We have a lot of smart plugs that we use for plant timers. They are way more accurate than the old school notched wheel ones and we can set them to actual sunrise and sunset. They also can just be turned on and used like a switch if the internet goes out
If you didn’t immediately take this back and demand a refund you’re part of the reason enshittification is getting worse
Or American with fuck all in the way of consumer rights, one of the two
Yeah I would immediately return honestly, there are plenty other espresso makers that don’t require wifi
This blender doesn’t actually make coffee. ☹️
Pfft maybe not the way you use it
It’s an oven, old bean
99% of people couldn’t give less of a fuck. The only way we get out of this death spiral is with smart legislation.
Oh no. I don’t be needin’ no internet enabled legislation! Good, old fahsioned, airgapped legislation was good enough before, and it’s good enough today!
They didn’t buy it. They bought a house that came with it.
Whose gonna pay the refund?
We are renovating our house including (adding) all new appliances.
For context. Might be a bit less obvious to non native speakers, but I can understand how you might miss it
You didn’t buy an oven. You bought a node for someone else’s botnet.
Hanlon’s razor, but its interesting to imagine that some Russian, US, Israeli, Chinese, etc agents infiltrated management at appliance manufacturers and convinced them to make all their devices smart, just so they could build bigger botnets
Whenever someone designs or purchases a smart device, this is what they need to be told. Is it really worth the risk for potential harm?
It’s only a matter of time before corporate WANs like Amazon sidewalk and/or the ever decreasing cost of cellular modems and IOT contracts mean they won’t even ask anymore.
In the mean time, these things are usually programmed with minimal effort. I have to wonder if there’s an actual unlock process or if giving is a completely isolated subnet would satisfy the check.
At least an integrated modem wouldn’t set my local network at risk. They might still collect sensible data with microphones, cameras and share usage profiles etc. But from my perspective that’s at least technically decoupled from other devices.
that’s at least technically decoupled from other devices.
Not if these appliances come with Mesh networking capabilities (something commonly found on IoT devices). Technologies such as Mesh allows devices to connect between them, essentially forming a “mesh” of interconnected devices.
It’s only a matter of time before corporate WANs like Amazon sidewalk and/or the ever decreasing cost of cellular modems and IOT contracts mean they won’t even ask anymore.
Then it’s time to heat up the soldering iron and disable the wireless connectivity in hardware.
which is great until you realize that if it cant connect to a server somewhere to download the latest Ad manifest it crashes the OvenOS and now your warranty is void AND you can’t bake a cake.
In that case it would be unusable in any remote area without cell service too.
doesn’t seem to have stopped them from locking functionality that does not require an internet conneciton behind an internet connection, so i don’t see why they would care.
Our GE Profile oven did the same. Of course the software is so shit, it tripped up connecting to the VLAN I set up and now it has air fry mode and no wifi.
Maybe try switching to airplane mode on your phone while trying to onboard the oven? I’m sure it’s too late for that.
