i can’t even guess as to why they went quiet. not one guess at all. we will never know.
edit: well they’re not quiet now once they get called out
One of the candidates was against Palestinian genocide??
Maybe pick a candidate that people want to vote for next time
You vote based on the choices you’re presented, not the ones you like. Like it or not a no vote is a vote one way or another.
Your comment highlights the tension between idealism and realism when it comes to voting.
Ideally, everyone would vote based on the choices they’re given. But in the real world, human behavior is messy—especially in an electorate like America’s, where civic education is weak and collective action is a foreign concept to many. It’s not surprising that “lesser evil” voting and the idea of keeping a genocide on simmer failed to compel a minority of voters who chose to abstain.
Do I blame nonvoters? Sure, to an extent—maybe 49%. But realism forces me to direct most of the blame at the Democratic Party, which has spent the last eight years repeatedly folding to Trump’s every authoritarian move. Until they address their own complicity, they’ll continue to bear the larger share of responsibility for this broken dynamic.
So motivational, that will surely drive Dems to turn out and vote for someone.
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You mean like Shill Stein? Or do you mean that other do-nothing that no one can remember because they’ve done nothing?
I’m just guessing here but they probably don’t mean a candidate who got less than 1% of the vote. I’m not sure why that’s where you went right away.
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Ah the enlighten centrist left bashing. A Billion dollars wasted to continue the rightward ratchet. Liz Chaney maybe your friend, but not mine. Go ahead and excuse war crimes all the way to the bottom
I haven’t seen them go quiet.
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I haven’t seen a single one of them get a post on the Hot page of lemmy since election day, but they sure came out to this comments section!
It’s because mods in places like this sub delete their posts and centrists on /all downvote such posts in places like leftymemes.
Fediverse feels real glow-ey lately. Thought it would stop after the election, but the train full of removed comments here that all happen to be people from the same side of the arguement is fucking wild.
Yeah I think it’s just a bunch of well off stressed centrist liberals are taking out their frustration in the comfort of anonymity on the poorer leftists of this site.
It’s happening even in like gardening communities where someone called me a bastard for caring about weeds and then spent multiple comments insulting me directly.
They need someone to punch down on and have decided who is easy and are setting up in groups.
There is always a new user base to blame too from them on who they need to block from .world to make their world finally perfect. I saw that last time I called out .world for its rudeness and they all told me to block other people, not them.
It’s just mad liberals probably most of them who helped fund Harris’s campaign and “stooped so low to volunteer” deciding they want to take their pound of flesh back from anyone else here they can get their anger off on.
Fediverse feels real glow-ey lately.
Not quite sure what this means
Since the election season ive felt a huge tone change and heard narratives that feel unnatural in the spaces they’re posted in. I think some group is doing that on purpose. Even after the reddit exoduses this place did not feel like it does now until things like .world banning piracy communities and pushing mfbc bot everywhere.
They voted for a worse genocide.
In 2 different places no less and possibly more.
They just don’t know it yet.
Last I checked Trump lost 3 million voters since last election, and Harris lost 10 million.
The couch won. It’s not like people were suddenly won over by a person they’ve likely seen through 3 election cycles.
Right, which is why people are rightfully furious at those they didn’t even bother to vote for the objectively better option
She didn’t appear better. So telling people that did nothing.
I don’t know why that’s a hard concept, for so many. Lemmy liberals love to think they can tell people exactly what to do because they are obviously right.
It’s smug and not effective and yet tactics don’t change just berate harder.
Right, which is why people are angry at the people who couldn’t even go vote for Harris
But the poster claimed they voted for a worse genocide. I’m saying they didn’t vote.
Not voting for Harris was indirect support for worse genocide. Choosing to stay on the couch is still a choice, and this time that choice gave us Trump
Great job couches, now your worst enemy is VP-elect.
Yea those couches are fucked now.
I’ve a feeling some of them know it. They’re just remaining here to maintain enough credibility to be believable during the next propaganda wave that’ll hit us once trump allows pootie to crater Kiev.
You forgot at home, where the marginalized groups are also gonna feel the brunt of turnips policies.
They’d be very upset by your comment if they could read.
Or you could have just not supported a genocide so that people would vote for you. Stop blaming the electorate for your own failings. No one is obliged to vote for you. Especially when you have terrible policies like funding a genocide.
*I voted for future genocide instead of present genocide.
I voted for
futuremore genocide instead of present genocide.And a much higher probability of the once unthinkable - genocide happening in the homeland.
I voted for a proven rapist whonsaid he’d rape again because of the possibility that the other guy might be a rapist or not give me what I want. Figuratively. To teach them a lesson and all that. So there.
Some of us have real lives to get on with and are willing to do the work behind the scenes, while we get on with that. My community has buried three since the since the end of October, two have recently been diagnosed with cancer and another two are in stage four. There are also considerations of paying bills. Just because we’re not wallowing in self-pity doesn’t make anyone anything other than busy. Mutual aid, direct action. Voting for the major parties isn’t the answer.
There sure are a lot of people trying to blame the left because their strategy of appealing to the middle failed.
I wasn’t super fond of the democrat’s platform, but I definitely wanted Not Fascism and Some Semblance of Human Rights to win.
Now we have nothing, and I have to make plans to figure out how to get my girlfriend out of the country if she ever needs reproductive care.
Well hopefully blaming progressives instead of the people who actually voted for trump makes you feel better at least?
News flash, neoliberals are already fascist, they are just better at hiding it. They even endorsed Dick fucking Cheney.
Egocentrism is a defining American quality.
?
Your point?
Nothing could be more egocentric than believing every opinion different from your own can just be reduced to egocentrism. Maybe it’s time for a healthy dose of self awareness…
“All Opinions Are Equal”
Consider the proposition that all people’s opinions hold equal value. No one’s opinion is better or more valid than anyone else’s.
Hope this helps.
A party that insists we have to support genocide is already fascist and has no regard for human rights except to use as bargaining chips to get votes. Sorry.
There is more than one topic to consider. If they both are truly the same in your mind on that topic maybe look at other factors that heavily impact people? Voting for a 3rd party who has no chance of winning literally does nothing.
Yeah so Republicans. Great job.
‘But Trump’ got you Trump twice now, and you’re blaming the people that tried to save you from yourself.
Children try to help with tasks they are incapable of doing as well, that does not mean we should alter our actions to cater to them.
How has this worked out so far?
You got Trump elected twice.
Good job, if that was the intent.
Your child analogy is sophistry trying to pin responsibility for the DNC’s failures on others to preserve the paycheck of checks notebook oh yeah, the campaign manager of John Edwards failed primary campaign who then went to work for Clinton in 2016 and Harris in 2024.
You’re carrying the water for people who continue to fail up and then fail using the same strategy that failed them before.
Good job.
But… I’m guessing you’re not aware of the whole DNC consultant class that continues to drive failing campaigns that fail to get votes but succeed in getting billionaires contributions that get given to the consultant class so they can buy their next yacht. None of this is hidden either, it is public.
Which makes the irony of an ignorant person like you repeating the lines that fail to win votes but maintains the jobs of the people failing calling other people children.
EDIT: You’re like a musk fanboi with a paid for blue checkmark. Difference is that the musk fanboi at least knows they’re a fanboi.
You seem to have extrapolated quite a lot from such a brief comment. Is it possible you may have misstepped in some of your assumptions here?
Did you call the people pointing out the DNC was headed for disaster children, or were you calling the people who failed at their job children?
The children are the people vehemently demanding the DNC unilaterally employ their chosen platform, under the pretense that it would instantly solve their problems, and then subsequently abstaining out of protest. The political landscape is more complicated than that.
I’ve said elsewhere, elections are won on popularity, not policy. If the DNC unilaterally shifts to a pro-worker platform, all their wealthy donors shift to attack ads against them. Adopting more popular policies can ironically lose them votes as those policies get misrepresented to voters by propagandists.
Add to that the habit of progressives to abstain when a platform isn’t perfectly catered to them, and you have an impossible situation where you’re trying to court multiple conflicting demographics while the financial support you once had has been turned against you.
I say she relied on the left coming out for abortion rights and democracy. They couldn’t even come out for that.
Abortion rights initiatives won in 7 out of 10 states where they were on the ballot.
Fuck national rights amiright.
And got 57% in FL, but needed 60% to pass
Idk. I’m sure the cheneys endorsement brought out dozens of voters.
There sure are a lot of people that didn’t do jack shit and think they have a place to blame anyone.
Canadian, voted for left wing party that had the best chance of winning despite the leader being a gilded spoon brat who couldn’t lead his way out of a wet paper bag.
I did my fucking part. All you wannabe progressives in the US had to do was vote to keep the Nazi out of office and you couldn’t even do that.
And what has the liberal party done with your vote? Next year is going to be a fucking disaster. The strategy of voting for the least bad option doesn’t work when the least bad option keeps getting worse. You can bleat at people to vote for the one party over and over again, but eventually enough people just give up or get desperate for any chance at change and think that voting for the other party will at least shake things up.
I voted for the NDP.
Federally the Loberals are the centrists led by the gilded spoon spoiled brat who couldn’t lead his way out of a wet paper bag. But he is fantastic at speeches.
The same NDP that doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell at getting power nationally? Again, next year is going to be a disaster.
American. Voted for Harris. I think you responded to the wrong person.
That was in general to the people who “held back their vote” to “teach the Democrats a lesson”. The kind of people who don’t realize that the luxuries the west has were hard fought and think they will always be there.
Then you weren’t continuing the conversation and was grandstanding to the choir to feel better.
They were continuing the conversational thread about the people who didn’t do shit
Most of us in here voted. And it didn’t change the millions that didn’t.
They are preaching and yelling at the choir. It didn’t continue the conversation even the person responding to was confused.
Ahh. Gotcha. Well said, friend from the not too distant north!
Couldn’t have said it better. This post is pure cringe but the op is a perfect example of why Democrats lost.
Naaah. What’s cringe are the smug pseudo-intellectual “trolley problem” gEnOciDe accusers that didn’t do shit but sit on their thumbs while the rest of us tried to save democracy.
Now they all get to blame the people that acted while smugly admitting that they chose not to?
An estimated 90 million people chose not to vote. Of those 90 million were third party supporting clowns that chose not to vote because they knew their candidate didn’t stand a chance. Also among those 90 million were protest-voting clowns that chose not to vote because their last two remaining brain cells were too busy fighting over third place.
There is ZERO logic or intelligence in accusing the people that actually tried and did something to avoid a shitty outcome while arrogantly having not done jack shit about it.
I thought the people analyzing the election as a single-iteration trolley problem were primarily Harris supporters? [Pull lever] = Harris, [don’t pull] = Trump, right?
So you tried saving democracy by supporting genocide and in the end you lost?
So you tried saving democracy by… doing nothing and in the end, everyone lost.
Voting for someone committing genocide and advocating for someone committing genocide IS supporting genocide.
You aren’t saving democracy dude lmao
I don’t think you can save something you didn’t have to begin with tbh
This is you. Your ‘But Trump’ strategy got you Trump twice now.
If the left would rather have Trump than a centrist Harris government, the left deserves blame
It’s not the left but everyone else that didn’t vote for her either.
The left is just an easy target cause we pointed out her flaws and people think by doing that we somehow made her flaws real.
Clearly a huge amount of people had issues with her or she would have won more votes. It’s like Trump thinking if we stopped testing for COVID it would stop happening.
If the leftists shut up Harris just would have lost in silence.
I don’t buy that. Trump got the undying loyalty support of all right wing media while Harris’s every word and move was scrutinized endlessly on left media. Even Joe Rogan - - supposed enlightened centrist - - did not dare criticize the god emperor Trump. It’s just not the same when it comes to the standards. We are so far from even beginning to have a conversation about progressive policies because we can’t even get our most basic candidates elected.
The right marches us in lockstep towards the bottom while we stick our noses up to our imperfect candidates. I just don’t buy it.
You are so backwards from reality that I don’t think it’s worth any of my time to point out all the wrong things you just said there as I doubt you will hear it at this point.
And the idea that we need to elect a centrist so that they can enact progressive policy they don’t want to do is up there.
Maybe just start with the thought that no one owes voting for an “imperfect” candidate if they just don’t want them in office.
Perfection is what you think people need when a real look at reality and hope to fix its issues is more than enough.
I didn’t say we need to elect a centrist to enact progressive policy (and by the way, you may call Kamala a centrist but she also had some very progressive policies). Biden has also enacted many progressive policies, so to just hand wave it away is laughable. The issue is your understanding of how politics works. If Bernie was president it’s not like he could magic wand all your dreams into existence. This is something you guys either don’t understand or just willingly ignore so you can stick your nose up at whatever candidate the DNC puts up. It doesn’t matter because after Trump’s cabinet is done we will be set back another hundred years. He will have the house, the judicial and everything else and we can sit here real smug about how ‘centrist’ Kamala was.
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You did. You said we need to elect whoever the Democrats give us to get progressive policies but whoever they give us will likely not support them. It’s putting the cart before the horse.
And she didn’t really. Look into her policies and they lacked any actual support for the larger population percentage. She was a centrist. It’s not pretend because you want to pretend she’s not.
Her house buying support was only for for first generation homebuyers, mostly immigrants who had lived in corporate owned apartments to track rent payments for 2 years and no one else. Business loans were for specific races in specific cities with specific history again. Trans support for prisoners but not health care for regular citizens. So on. She picked hyper specifics and that’s not helping people. That’s helping specific groups in ways they think keeps status quo but gets more votes.
When everyone feels like they are hurting telling them to hold on while you apply hyper specific help doesn’t feel very progressive or helpful.
It’s not picking apart by the way. It’s not like she didn’t say these things out loud and mean it. And other people who pay less attention aren’t going to be excited to hear about plans that don’t help them.
The issue is that you don’t know that people vote on emotion and think people can be told what’s best for them while they feel differently. It’s not that Bernie or any progressive would fix everything immediately but Trump won because he admitted there is a problem and agreed with people feeling hurt by the system.
He’s not gonna fix it, but he didn’t make people feel dumb and ignored. It’s not about you or me but the millions that it was true for. So acting smug about how centrist she wasn’t doesn’t help us either and won’t change her loss.
It gets you and the rest of us nowhere and is a great way to lose again by doing nothing but battling with hypothetical pedantry against reality.
Again join reality and maybe you might get somewhere but currently there is no way forward when this hellbent imagining it how you want. Everyone else will move on without the DNC if they have to. Change will and must happen. Sticking your nose up at it because you’d prefer it didn’t will keep you being ineffective at moving with it.
Here’s reality: The republican party put forward a candidate that literally quoted Mein Kampf and was also found liable for sexual abuse in court by a jury. The entire republican media apparatus and electoral base not only stood behind him but rabidly endorsed him lockstep from beginning to end. The DNC put forward a candidate that wasn’t very left (I’ll be first to agree with you that her platform tried to cater to the center). I’ll also grant that she wasn’t as charming or funny as Trump and she came across as center technocrat. I’ll grant you all of that.
My issue is we’ll never make progress because democrats (and when I say democrats I mean beyond the electoral base to include the entire media environment) will shred and nitpick any candidate regardless of where their policies stand. It’s not the policies, because even your post is a testament that you don’t understand how policies translate into legislation. Bernie could have come out with universal healthcare, and I promise you the democratic media apparatus would still find something to nitpick. There just isn’t solidarity on this side as the democratic platform has a very strong plurality of voices that hardly ever agree. None of this is diversity of opinion is happening on the side that is pulling us into a christian neo-fascist state. And believe me: those guys show up to vote every time.
Let’s assume that her polices were too center for your preferences. So what? Now that republicans control all branches and the judicial they’ll dismantle everything we built up so far. So congratulations I guess? We have to redo 100 years of work because Kamala just wasnt left enough for us.
Their main failure was choosing a half black, half Indian women as their candidate. That in it self is 3 failures. You can have ONE of those things. 2 is highly improbable, 3 is impossible.
This has nothing to do with how I think Harris will perform as president but more to do with how racist and misogynistic this country is.
I truly thing Walz would have done better at the polls.
I think you might just be racist and sexist if that’s your immediate thoughts.
Don’t push yours on everyone else.
Trump voters are literally waving Nazi flags and wearing misogynistic shirts.
Explain your logic to me of how you came to the conclusion that someone calling out racism and sexism is actually racist and sexist themselves.
Trump voters were never ever going to vote for Harris or any Democratic candidate. It was pure hubris and Folly to think that they could snag some.
Trying to court Trump voters was definitely a mistake. The strategy should have been to energize progressives.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. John Fetterman would have won easily. Americans pick based on appearance.
I’d say they vote based on matching identities “(s)he’s like me”.
Ah yes, another centrist. That will surely work this time.
Centrist is a label based on a candidate’s position on issues.
I claim that doesn’t matter. Image matters.
Fetterman is a large white male that makes Trump look weak. That’s all that matters.
Trump can’t even run again
??? This is about the election that just happened.
Her rallies were massive and she was polling 10%+ ahead of Trump when she was seen as progressive.
When she went full blue dog and parroted the same strategy Clinton failed with in 2016, the advantage evaporated and she started polling at or under Trump.
Falsely attributing the failure to misogyny solves nothing.
Rallies don’t turn into voters apparently.
More importantly, they stopped talking about rally size when she went blue dog.
The pictures I’ve seen of both sides’ October rallies looked about the same, very different from her earlier massive rallies.
But if it isn’t the progressives then it must be men’s fault, black people’s fault, Muslim people’s fault while being the fault of racists, misogynists and Islamiaphobes.
Or you could blame the party instead of the voters.
Well yeah, otherwise they’d have to consider actually changing their shit strategy
Even after all this the DNC are already bowing down to the fascist position because they lost because they were “too woke”.
This is when the democrats were already running a far right platform of “we want to fund the police, not defund them”, following Trump’s border policy, “most lethal army”, “Israel must expand its borders”, “I’ll have a Republican in my cabinet”. And they weren’t “woke” at all. Kamala threw trans people in the trash saying “we’ll follow the law” when it comes to trans issues. It was the Republicans who were running hundreds of millions of dollars worth of attack ads on trans people and democrats weren’t saying shit.
The DNC have once again failed to learn and are looking for a “centrist” chair, doing exactly the same thing of shutting down leftist voices and trying to appeal to and compromise with the fascists instead of listening to people like Bernie and AOC.
You’d think after they utterly failed and managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and get an out and proud fascist elected they would finally learn that they need to address the real issues that affect all working class people.
The ratchet effect is real.
The Republican critique of the democrats is kind of right in a way in that they are just the same rich people not doing anything about the cost of living and only using identity politics to “virtue signal”. They’re right wingers with rainbow flags. That doesn’t do much for oppressed minorities except make us the target of attacks. What would benefit queer and other oppressed minorities more is build a society in which we can afford homes to live in, food to eat, access to healthcare. But they want to make it all about pronouns because that is easy for them to look like they’re someone “on the left”, when economically they’re not on the left at all.
There’s really no hope with the DNC. We just need to organize in our own communities because the democrats certainly aren’t coming to save anyone.
they need to address the real issues that affect all working class people.
But of course this would mean clawing back some concessions from the capitalist class, and they own both parties, so…nope.
The so called rachet effect is because the left never shows up, so the Dems go to the center to find voters. The left doesn’t like this so they cry rachet.
Is there data about the 2024 election showing this available already? Because the 2020 data doesn’t support that.
Voted but voted for who? Jill Stein? I’m obviously saying they didn’t show up for Dems.
And the difference I see between right and left are about the same. Like those 4 points for left and right are really pretty much the same percentage. And that’s percentage, so it’s what I’ve said before that either 1) the left doesn’t exist (or is tiny), or 2) they don’t show up. Either way.
And finally I think Biden won because he went to the center and got those voters. The stressed sideliners in that graphic.
It wasn’t obvious, plenty of people simply say that the left doesn’t vote despite the fact they’re some of the most engaged voters out there.
You would think that courting the most dedicated voting demographic on your side of the aisle would be a positive if they weren’t already mostly voting for you anyway, but I’m not the kind of brilliant political machine that can lose elections to Trump twice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah it was obvious I’m saying the left doesn’t show up for the dems when it’s a 2 party system.
You would think that courting the most dedicated voting demographic
They’re either tiny or they don’t show up for the Dems. Every time the dems (jfc do I have to add that every time?) rely on the left, they lose.
lose elections to Trump twice.
Hillary said she’d have a map room to fight climate change. You know that existential issue that the left totally says it will show up for for the dems, right? And they didn’t show up for the Dems.
Biden saw that and ran center. And he won. But Biden did left things anyway. And what did polls show? That the left wasn’t going to show up for the Dems.
Harris relied on the left to show up for the Dems and they couldn’t even do that for the dems when their own human rights and democracy was on the ticket.
The only time the Dems win is when they go to the center. After this, thy will never ever rely on the left again, because they never show up for the Dems.
I hope you see why people don’t add for the Dems every single time. Because it’s a pain in the ass and a mess.
Ignore, misread parent
I’m not convinced the left was ever going to show up for any candidate. They’re already castigating Bernie, of all people. They’ve already purged AOC.
From what I learned it seems there is absolutely no limit to the amount of purity testing that seems to happen on the left. In the meantime, Republicans are marching us lockstep into direct fascism. So we can’t get anything done because none of the dnc candidates are perfect. Meanwhile, Republicans literally have no standards.
Um. Leftists vote at the highest rate of any polity.
There’s just not many of us.
The DNCs “standards” weren’t impressive to millions of center / center-left voters who voted for Biden.
Probably because they nakedly shilled themselves to anyone with a checkbook. Had no stances, offered no solutions, and came across as wildly out of touch.
Imagine how a tax credit for first time home buyers sounds to someone who can’t afford groceries.
You’re kind of proving my point. We’re now left with the alternative. Again: because we couldn’t be bothered to show up to vote. That home buyer tax credit was one of many policies. Like the child tax credit was a really big deal. But again, here we are tearing her platform apart while the repubs are marching lockstep.
Trump gets to coast on the guarantee that his base will show up no matter any-thing. He is most vile person that ever held office (maybe Jackson is up there with him). But the DNC candidate has to thread carefully and reach near perfection or else face endless barrage of criticism from within.
The two parties seem to have vastly different standards and that’s why we can never move further left. The right wins on every turn regardless while the left is sticking their nose up because the DNC candidate is just never left enough.
Yes when you cultivate a brainwashed mob of barely literate hateful fools you can manipulate them pretty easily.
Frankly I’ve abandoned democracy. We aren’t responsible enough to keep it and it’s grown to onerous to manage. It’s a garden that has overgrown our house. I doubt what’s coming will be better but hatching is rarely a good thing from the viewpoint of the eggshell.
Right. But unfortunately that’s our reality. We have to build up. If we ever want to move that Overton window… well now it jumped ten steps to the right. It doesn’t go back and forth between each cabinet. It just keeps sliding into the right because again: the right has no standards and is happy to march in lockstep while we quibble over which progressive policy just isn’t good enough.
I fear we deserve to watch the nation burn because like you said, democracy requires vigilance
“Their votes alone didn’t swing the election” and “Their actions were the opposite of helpful in preventing genocide” can both be true.
The people that was the opposite of helping prevent genocide were Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. That is the truth.
Well now you have Trump who will commit additional genocides within our domestic borders on top of all the complete eradication he will directly fund outside of our borders. you definitely showed them libs!
Question: do you do anything besides voting? Did you phonebank? Canvas? Do you work in your community: volunteer at a soup kitchen, community garden, etc?
You’re looking for someone to blame, but arguing on the internet isn’t going to solve anything. We have four years to organize, protect, and uplift each other. There are people that need our help.
24 hours later and ignored this. I guess they think stopping fascism is the ballot box. Probably ignores jury duty even.
That’s the problem with electoralism. Too many people just figure they can turn in a piece of paper every 2-4 years and that will save us from fascism.
I believe in voting as harm reduction, but nobody is coming to save us.
If you have a problem with genocide then why didn’t you vote for a candidate that was against it?
Name one candidate that was for it.
Because we live in the real world where we recognize that Trump or Harris were going to be the next president, and Harris’ ambiguity on Gaza and susceptibility to pressure from Democrat voters is, while not ideal, still better than Trump’s open lust for Muslim blood and complete indifference to what pro-palestinian voters want.
Because I am not so blinded by my own self-centered, egotistical view of moral purity as to throw away my vote on retaining civilian rights.
Their actions were the opposite of helpful in preventing genocide
This is true for people who voted for Harris, not third party
Yeah… that amazingly helpful 0.7%
I guess kudos for staying on your sinking ship long after the rats have left. You’re at least consistent
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Can it?
If their votes didn’t swing the election, how were they harmful? Or whatever you mean by “the opposite of helpful”?
This is like saying “my vote doesn’t matter, it’s not like the candidate I would have voted for lost by a single vote”
Notice how you didn’t answer the question?
We have the benefit of hindsight and they were correct. You just want to pretend that they weren’t.
When a better outcome is possible, but fails to happen, everyone who would have preferred it but did nothing to contribute to the effort is at fault. Had Kamala Harris won, a peaceful solution would not yet be achieved, but would still be possible. Now that Donald Trump has won, a peaceful solution is no longer possible. Is that what the people who stayed home or voted Green want?
Edit: the other stuff I said was kind of mean, so I took it out.
Had Kamala Harris won, a peaceful solution would not yet be achieved, but would still be possible.
I can’t really prove what would have happened… but that was never going to happen. She was going to keep signing off on weapons shipments and refused to call it genocide.
She wouldn’t have supported it as much as Trump. But no way was she in favor of a peaceful solution; she was offering a slower genocide.
We can both do better and expect better.
Liberals are pretending the electoral college doesn’t exist because it destroys your point. In most states, your vote has no chance of affecting the outcome. If California is ever in play, that means Texas, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Florida are Red and the Republican has already won.
Swing states voters have a much tougher decision to make, but it still boils down to the same thing: You’re telling voters to vote the way you want them to. If a candidate wants people to vote for them, they have to support issues that they care about.
The buck stops with Kamala. The number of people who voted blue down the ticket but otherwise at the top shows that. We ran a terrible race, that got going way too late because Biden prevented us from having a real primary. Blaming voters is not a winning strategy. The Dems need to learn their lesson and earn back trust from the working class.
Dems failed and people who abhor genocide unfortunately had little to do with it, though listening to Lemmy libs you’d think they personally destroyed her campaign
I have been seeing this online, leftist, superposition where people not voting Democrat, to protest the genocide, are not a significant enough portion of the vote, to have tanked the election for the DNC, and that enough of the 15 million who sat out clearly did so due to the genocide, to make them lose. I have seen it argued both ways from a number of the same people, in different threads, when the messaging behind either, works in their favor. No these people are not russian bots, they have been around lemmy, doing normal poster stuff, for a while now. They just want to not take any blame, and also claim their issue was far more universally important than it was.
“My vote for Jill Stein/My non vote for protest/etc. isn’t what killed her chance, it was people being mad about other things the DNC didn’t do well!” Then, on another post, seeing the same user name, “15 million people wouldn’t have sat out had they stopped supporting Israel!”
Ah the enlighten centrist left bashing. A Billion dollars wasted to continue the rightward ratchet. Liz Chaney maybe your friend, but not mine. Go ahead and excuse genocide all the way to the bottom
Serious question, do you pull the lever in the trolley problem?
Idk, knock the trolly off the tracks or untie the people. To think you are limited to two choices is as absurd as thinking everything is a fucking trolley problem
When you’re talking about a presidential election in the United States, it absolutely is a binary choice.
Not for much longer. The illusion of choice will be consolidated for efficiency purpose next go.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Sometimes I wonder if people can entertain a non-trolly thought, but I suppose it’s just simpler to stay on tracks
I genuinely believe that these are the things you find yourself wondering about.
Do you kill a healthy person to harvest their organs in order save five in need of transplants?
Good lord but you people are hung up on Cheney like she’s the only excuse you’ve got for helping put Trump back in office.
I mean Clinton decided to Buddy around with Henry Kissinger and people didn’t like it, I don’t know why you would think another candidate budding up to another war criminal was going to work this time around. How many times you got to lose making that mistake before you learn? Why you keep running the Hillary Clinton campaign over and over?
Yes. And then claim everyone is sexist so they can feel smug about it.
It’s a clear sign on rightward slide & embrace. She agrees with most of what trump says and wants to achieve. The only reason she isn’t with trump right now is because she pissed him off. And to your meme, Liz Cheney ain’t dead yet.
It’s a clear sign on rightward slide & embrace.
Let’s say you’re right, for the sake of argument. And the solution to that is to help the all-the-way-right fascist get back into office?
She agrees with most of what trump says and wants to achieve. The only reason she isn’t with trump right now is because she pissed him off.
So what? Liz Cheney wasn’t on the ballot.
And to your meme, Liz Cheney ain’t dead yet.
No, but the whining about her is.
She was on the ballot. Harris repeatedly stated she was gonna put Republicans that even the Republicans don’t like in her cabinet.
So who was that for?
The amount of bots that think anyone cares about either Chaney or what they say is incredible. And you’re still doing it.
You mean the Kamala bots that defended her praising the Cheney’s? Yeah, they are not bots just establishment BlueAnon.
It’s a clear sign on rightward slide & embrace. She agrees with most of what trump says and wants to achieve. The only reason she isn’t with trump right now is because she pissed him off.
I don’t think you even read what i said.
So salty about how your team threw the election that you still can’t shut up about it instead of working towards more productive goals? Like the things you pretend to care about outside of your team sport?
I’ve never stopped working towards productive goals for the past 6 years on my local level. Maybe you should ask that to the ~10 million democratic voters that stayed home this year?
They are certainly responsible for Trump doing what they will do. No amount of mental gymnastics can make that go away. You had a vote, it was what it was, you had to accept reality or live in a bubble roleplaying that your vote was something it was not.
Right? .ml has been quiet…the CCP ran out of things for them to say?
