One thing I’ve learned is that Kamela Harris needed to just play a PSA explaining why the hell a Tarrif is.
Wouldn’t have helped. Learning isn’t what Americans do. Americans like finding things to be mad about and then making decisions based on their emotional responses.
Can’t fix stupid without massively improving the public education system, and stupid Americans just elected the guys that ran on deconstructing the public education system.
We’re done.
Your first paragraph isn’t even an exaggeration. The worst part for me about being around conservative relatives and acquaintances is the negativity. They are addicted to anger and outrage and jealousy. They are always complaining about something or talking about things that other people have or how much money they make.
The issue is you can’t teach someone who not only doesn’t want to learn, they react in opposition to the idea of understanding anything outside of emotional reactions.
That’s where cult deprogramming comes into play. There are people who specialize in getting people out of that kind of mindset your argument describes. The rest of us need to do our part and educate, even if it doesn’t always have the impact we hope in the moment.
There are people who specialize in getting people out of that kind of mindset your argument describes.
We have enough of those people to do this for the majority of Americans?
The rest of us need to do our part and educate
I love your optimism. But it just won’t work. We now know the majority of Americans are ignorant and uninterested in learning, even from mistakes. You can present these people with facts and stats and infallible logic all day long and it won’t make a difference.
We gleefully voted in a convicted felon and rapist who ALREADY had a failed presidency and openly talked about being anti-union and anti-worker rights who stated on national television that he had the concept of plans.
The only direction this society is going is down.
We have enough of those people to do this for the majority of Americans?
Only one way to find out.
Pessimism may feel true, but just because something feels true doesn’t make it true.
No one knows the future. But if we don’t learn from out mistakes, it’s likely we will keep making them.
But if we don’t learn from out mistakes
We already haven’t.
it’s likely we will keep making them.
We already have.
It isn’t just that we failed a test. We failed the most obvious test we could have possibly been given. This was the most blatant decision we’re ever likely to make as a society in our lifetimes. And we utterfly failed.
We already haven’t.
It’s a week since election day.
We already have.
It’s a week since election day.
This was the most blatant decision we’re ever likely to make as a society in our lifetimes.
This was the most blatant decision we’re ever likely to make as a society in our lifetimes so far.
It’s a week since election day.
You don’t understand. We ALREADY tried the Trump thing and it failed miserably. We aren’t even done living with the negative effects of that experience. We have one of the most poignant examples in history of what creeping fascism/authoritarianism can lead to. There are people still alive today that can tell us about it.
We don’t listen. We don’t learn.
This was the most blatant decision we’re ever likely to make as a society in our lifetimes so far.
We’re doubtful to ever experience a more black and white election than what we just experienced. And we still managed to fail.
I have a neighbor who voted for Trump. He relies on aspects of medicaid, to get insulin, that the GOP have directly targeted for removal from what it will cover. I told him this, he didn’t believe me. So I showed him it in writing from a GOP source. He said that Trump will find some way for people like him to get their insulin. They just want this particular way gone because it’s a bad method. I even pointed out that there was zero discussion of changing these policies, to make them more sensible, or anything like that, just an outline that they plan on stopping that coverage. He just doubled down that he won’t be abandoned, they aren’t just getting rid of the coverage, they are getting rid of THAT SPECIFIC WAY OF DOING IT because it is inefficient, or whatever.
If you explained that tariffs would hurt their income, and employment, in a way they understood, they would just assume there was something being cooked up to make sure that didn’t happen. Now that all the manufacturing companies, here, are demonstrating that there will be big losses of profit margin, and cutting compensation to workers, they are mad. However, I personally doubt they will stay mad, or mad enough, or that they won’t just end up blaming Joe Biden for it.
It doesn’t matter how much conservatives suffer from conservative policy. They will ALWAYS find someone to blame but themselves. Hell, there are parts of our country that feel like 3rd world countries when you drive through them that have been voting Republican exclusively for generations and they still don’t understand why their lives suck so much.
There are parts of the country who’s poverty level, and access to utilities, medical care, etc., literally is third world. Northern WV has a lot of that, for instances. There are whole towns without plumbing, paved roads, electricity, etc. People living in shacks, no education, no reasonable way to leave.
Yup.
You’d think suffering would lead people to vote more responsibly. But I guess it has the opposite effect. I guess maybe their lives are such shit that what’s coming isn’t going to make their lives much worse. But it certainly won’t make them better.
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Those protections are gone and a lot of people are going to suffer and die because of it.
Yup. We gave all the keys to the kingdom to the crazies and we’re about to find out how bad of a choice that was.
And honestly, I couldn’t care less how much Americans suffer now. That part of me is gone. We asked for it and now we’re going to get it. Time to learn the hard way. Not that we’re going to learn.
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People wouldn’t listen, because they’ve been pre-programmed to believe Harris is a liar.
What’s more, Harris wouldn’t say this, because it would require her to take a position favorable to global trade, a thing her target voter base hates.
Pandering to conservatives wasn’t going to win her the election because she changed her rhetoric.
God, if only it was that easy.
These people will willfully forget the lesson within a day so they can go back to bootlicking.
That’s a generous timeline.
Yeah, usually they only feign dull surprise for the duration of the conversation.
“that happened” eyeroll
I literally talked with a Trump guy yesterday at the bar. Almost the exact same story. I think you’d be surprised just how upset a poor, uneducated Trumpet will get if you make clear that Trump winning doesn’t actually negatively affect you much. For some (not all) Trump supporters, especially and usually the poor and uneducated, the whole point is he’ll make people like me suffer and elevate people like this dude. It’s a fantasy, but it is definitely one they indulge in. It makes them very clearly angry if you can convince them otherwise.
Though, he did basically threaten me after I said that I’ll be fine, I’m just worried about people less fortunate than myself–like him. Admittedly a shitty thing to say, but he then let me know that I would “find out.” Unclear about what, and he left shortly thereafter. I definitely approached my car later with my ears open just in case he was waiting to jump me or something.
This election proved that there are a lot of dumb-asses that need to go back to school to take U.S. Government, Civics, and Economics because they didn’t learn it the first time, or they never had to take them to graduate high school. Seriously, why in the f#ck would you entrust the economy to a dumbf#ck who bankrupted TWO casinos!! The freaking business model, of a casino, is people walk in, then over the course of two to four hours hand you all their money and then leave. You REALLY have to be a dumbf#ck to fail at that.
Americans are even dumber than that.
A few weeks before the election Donald Trump and Elon Musk had a little circle jerk podcast interview with each other. They spent time talking about how anti-union they are and how much they hate worker’s rights. Then working class Americans went out in droves and voted for those two rich assholes who openly talked about wishing workers had less rights.
We made a guy who was the first president in U.S. history to stand on a picket line with striking workers step down because he was old. Then we hired another equally old rich guy who openly talks about wishing workers had less rights.
That’s how stupid Americans are. And this election showed us that the majority of Americans are that stupid. When a majority of a society is that stupid, there are no happy endings. We’re set for a period of long decline.
Yes, I remember the reports on that podcast. (There was no way that I could listen to it.) Apparently, common sense has left the building. When I took ancient history, another student asked how or why did the Roman Empire fall. (Honestly, the answer has multiple factors.) However, we have witnessed the reason why the U.S. will fail. The republicans’ planned results of demolishing the education system has seen fruition and the plot of “Idiocracy” has come to pass.
“The government that you elect is the government you deserve.” — Thomas Jefferson
“The government that you elect is the government you deserve.” — Thomas Jefferson
Yup. That’s actually why I’m almost relieved in a way. The last 4 years I spent A LOT of time on social media trying to combat misinformation by spreading factual data. It didn’t matter. Americans aren’t intersted in learning. Many aren’t even interested in doing their civic duty by voting. So now I’m hands off. I’m just here to watch the slow (or maybe fast) collapse. I honestly don’t believe there’s much to be done about it at this point.
The collected data over time is there. Freely available. It clearly shows us which choice was the more intelligent choice. And we ignored that and chose poorly at a vital point in American history, despite being given all the warning signs.
We are simply a society set up to fail.
I’ll suffer more, but I can take more of a financial hit. Really I’m getting the political equivalent to a groin shot. It’s not fair, it’s not cool, and it should be off limits. I should get to be comfortable keeping my assets stateside.
We’re all set to suffer for the foreseeable future, but no one suffers more from conservative policy than poor, rural conservatives.
I, for one, will absolutely enjoy watching them suffer. They deserve it.
no one suffers more from conservative policy than poor, rural conservatives.
That’s a nice fiction, but they’re already so cut out of the fruits of the economy that its dubious at best.
The folks who suffer on net will be middle class professionals who see their economic floor drop out from under them. They’ll be forced into living like poor, rural conservatives as prices skyrocket and disposable income dries up.
I, for one, will absolutely enjoy watching them suffer
You won’t watch them suffer. You’ll watch “Lifestyles of the Crypto Billionaire” on one channel and “Bum Fights: Disenfranchised Minority Edition” on the other because that’s what the folks enriching themselves in the Trump economy want to show people.
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I fully agree with screw China, but learn to read a damn label to avoid their low quality trash. The looming Mango Mussolini trade war will increase prices.
China’s economy is already undergoing a transformation and they’ve started moving their capital overseas. Chinese owned businesses will operate out of lots of other countries.
Also: it takes a long time for supply chains to handle change as we saw with the pandemic. How many years of high prices for Chinese goods before all of the manufacturing has left China? That is assuming that other countries can immediately match Chinese efficiency and don’t have higher prices for many more years due to needing to recoup the initial expenditure.
Yeah it sucks that capitalists outsourced (and continue to outsource even in the service sector) all of your jobs, but they’re doing it because even the meager amount of your production that was coming back into your pocket rather than lining theirs is insufficient for them.
You’re attacking the problem from the wrong angle because that’s how they want you to attack it. Funny how the wealthiest American oligarchs aren’t threatened by any of this economic change that’s supposedly here to help the average American.
You’re worried about “right to work” while Elon added 70 billion to his net worth and thousands of people (generations of his offspring) will never have to work a day in their extravagant lives.
Keep worrying about CHY-nuh, though.
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USA literally uses child labor overseas
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Tarrifs good cuz fuck china.
American industry has been pivoting away from China for over a decade, because their wages are outpacing India and Indonesia.
Meanwhile, Chinese exports are flooding into Latin America, rapidly improving the economic condition of big countries like Mexico and Brazil.
But sure. Let’s see how this pans out.
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You realise half of the numbers the ccp gives simply doesn’t match reality?
Sure thing, bro.
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Hey look, it’s one of the people who are going to suffer the consequences of their vote.
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You know what can’t get “manufactured” in the U.S.? Things that can’t be grown in the U.S.
So enjoy much more expensive coffee, tea, chocolate and even Coca-Cola.
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And yet you’re not aware that the tariffs will not only apply to China and it was never suggested that they only apply to China.
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China does not exist in isolation and cheering on a terrible economic plan because you see the potential of one good thing coming out of it is a bit silly. Especially when China still has the rest of the world to trade with.
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You don’t seem to get it. This is like saying “I advocate for cutting off the pinky toe but ignoring the rest of the foot” while the doctor is standing there with a saw, ready to push you out of the way.
They will be manufactured elsewhere. Namely, places like Cambodia, Vietnam, and Mexico. Those factory jobs aren’t coming to the US.
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Oh look, another rube who doesn’t understand what a tariff is, how it works, or what it’s supposed to be used for.
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I sincerely doubt most of these stories are actually happening. It’s true. But I doubt the actual interaction occurred. Seeing this same story different ways all over the internet. I live in a region surrounded by right wingers and aside from those flags and occasional hats, I hardly ever hear anyone outright talk about their politics.
I literally had a very similar experience yesterday at a bar. (See my other post.) It definitely happens.
Just statistically they have to happen. There are millions of democrats with maga neighbors that cant shut up about shit but dont actually know what they are talking about. Whether these stories happen to the people that post about them is a different question.
There are millions of democrats with maga neighbors
Democrats be like:
🔴Cut out MAGAzis from their life.
🔴Treat MAGAzis cordially to find out how fucked they are going to be.
Believe it or not, any sufficiently large group of people will have people who behave differently within it
Find out their weaknesses for when the purge hits.
Bullets. Like most people, they are weak to bullets.
Taken from a 196 post i saw earlier
The fascists have found surprising success in choosing to make their suicides everyone’s problem. I’m not telling people to kill themselves, don’t, life is worth living even now, survival is a radical act, etc, but it is food for thought and a thing to contemplate why we let happen
Considering Democrats lost ground with every single voting demographic, it would seem to me that they’re going to have to quit being so smug and actually get on people’s level, if only by necessity.
“I put a fascist in power because people pointed out my ignorance, and I don’t want to change that.”
-Typical 3x trump voter-
You’re wrong.
And that’s why Dems lost the election.
Look at Missouri, where we voted down an abortion ban in a landslide, passed a $15 minimum wage in a landslide, and still went fully red. These aren’t bad people. They’re people that are sick of being told to be joyful when they’re working 2-3 jobs for the privilege of barely surviving in America, and it’s happening under Democrats.
“I put a fascist in power because mcdonals tripled the price on a quarter pounder combo”
-Typical 3x trump voter apologist-
I’m not an apologist.
Just pointing out simple facts, and I’d think after this last election a reasonable person would get that repeating memes isn’t terribly convincing.
I have a friend who has had success with pointing out that gutting social welfare systems means they won’t get a check anymore.
But, those people were willing to have an actual conversation about it.
I actually believe it because it’s exactly what happened in brexit. Conservatives voted to leave and then they found out what that meant.
Conservatives were so focused on winning that they didn’t bother to actually look into Trump’s “policies” and are not Pikachu faced when understanding it.
These are the same assholes that are going to completely forget two years from now that Trump raised prices and will still vote Republican in the midterms.
That’s a succinct way to put it. It’s definitely hilarious watching them bleed from their own hubris, though.
Times like these when being a petard salesperson really pays off.
For this to be true, a MAGA diehard would have to have listened to an explanation of what a tariff is from a left leaning person they are trying to taunt, understood the explanation, and believed the explanation a left leaning person gave them that disagrees with what Trump has said.
I have no doubt many MAGA types could understand the explanation, but when in gloat mode, I seriously doubt much listening was happening. Even if they did listen the chances of them believing that explanation over Trump’s seem low to me.
As an European: The Brexiteers who “suddenly” were excluded from free travel and prolonged stays within Europe due to their own voting gave a stream of similar stories. It was and is hilarious to watch.
I do believe that such dialogues are really happening and will continue to happen in the US around the clock from now on.
I particularly love the stories where they owned real estate or villas and they’re like “this doesn’t apply to meeeeee, right?!”
Narrator “It did in fact, apply to them.”
Its like, what kinda moron asshole doesn’t even hire or ask a lawyer to give them actual legal advice about this shit?
Yeah, it’s the “the train stood up and clapped” bullshit that people post on their socials.
If these people knew anything about history they’d know about President Hoover raising tariffs, which prompted every country we traded with to do the same, making everything more expensive and worsening the Great Depression. The thing is, for all the podcasts and 24-Hour news voters in this country consume, they don’t know jack shit other than to pull the lever for whichever candidate their preferred news network tells them to.
ironically Trump’s greatest fear is becoming hoover yet his favorite word is tariff
unstoppable force, meet unmovable wall
Please, he doesn’t know who Hoover is. He thinks that’s the vacuum entrepreneur that became president President then went on to run the cia…
I’m shocked. Not only does he know anything about early 20th century American politics and economics, but also apparently the my pillow lunatic has a media channel
And yeah, I suspect that there will be a crash in the next 12-18 months. The economy is fragile but recovering and he’s looking to do massive changes that aren’t well received by experts. He will probably drive us into a depression.
Just was at the grocery store. Was joking around with cashier, he and the bag boy talked about the ad playing over the loudspeakers about avocados from Mexico. They seemed nice. He finishes ringing me up and I groan. He says he’s really looking forward to prices coming down in the next four years. I started laughing at him, saying that’s not how tariffs work and that we’re all fucked.
What a wonderful day in the neighborhood.
He says he’s really looking forward to prices coming down in the next four years.
Even absent the tariffs, its crazy to think prices will be coming down under a government that loves the idea of price gouging and speculation.
I have non-blood relatives with family in Ukraine. For now.
I have others with mounting medical debt that is as dangerous as the cancers.
I know victims of SA that are sure it won’t happen to any of their family or friends.
I hope I’m wrong. I hope this is the wrongest I’ve ever been.
Sounds like this person’s neighbor is a “Good Christian.”
“So, are you going to pay out of pocket for college now?”
“No, I’m getting student loans.”
“Do you know what department in the federal government does student loans? The department of education, which Trump is going to get rid of.”
“Damn it!”
They’ll just say the loans should be privatized. Because it turned out great last time we gave private companies free reign to swindle vulnerable populations into signing massive loans for societal necessities.
“It won’t happen. And if it does, it’s the Democrats’ fault.”
Yeah, that’s one of the new narratives. “Trump won’t be that bad. He lies all the time.”
They’re not at the damn it phase yet. They’re still at the trigger the libs phase.
What are all the stages of Leopards ate my face?
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Still focusing on identity politics instead of the actual ramifications of a choice based upon them, eh?
They did admit liberals are smarter, so there’s that.
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If you vote for a party that’s historically better for the economy and doesn’t run convicted felons and rapists who illegally attempted to overturn an election, you are 100% smarter than the guy next door and you shouldn’t have to pretend that you’re not to appease them.
You’re getting downvoted to hell, but it’s true.
The total lack of empathy and unchecked arrogance on the part of Democrats helps explain why they lost the election.
Idiots don’t understand how difficult it is to be smart and not come across as arrogant to idiots who don’t realize how stupid they are.
You being upset about it is like me being upset with your ignorance. I am smart enough to know it doesn’t help, you on the other hand do not. It’s one of a thousand ways I’m smarter than you.
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We’re very sorry we weren’t nicer to the proudly ignorant and morally devoid.
Go for it.
Double down on this attitude.
But don’t complain when it works against you.
Literally doesn’t matter now.
My attitude doesn’t make ignorant people less ignorant. Those people are going to be ignorant no matter what I say or do. That’s the nature of ignorance.
I suppose it was too much to expect Democrats to possess any measure of empathy, even if it serves their own self-interest.
Why is it on Democrats to treat proudly ignorant, deplorable people with respect?
Why are Democrats held to higher standards?
It’s not your neighbor’s fault you’re an idiot.
Can we stop with these “and then everyone clapped stories” it’s just as bad as the fake trans stories conservatives made up to make themselves angry.
It’s like the five stages of grief but with not knowing what the consequences of voting against your interests are.
1 - Gloating
2 - Overconfidence
3 - Denial
4 - Doubt
5 - Leopards ate my face
absolutely not buying corporate garbage made in this country anymore. I’ll fucking import a kei truck, I don’t care.
Yeah we’re stocking up on everything we can now, so we can tighten our belts and hopefully save some money over the next few years, but also not directly give the oligarchs any more of our money. I’ve been researching local and woman owned businesses that I’d like to support for the necessities, and thankfully our grocery store is a local chain. I have a friend who is offering to make basic clothing, including underwear, in exchange for childcare, eggs, and produce. People around here are going to get creative and it’s actually giving me some hope that things won’t be as bad as we think.
Out of curiosity, what things are you stocking up on?
It’s a long list but here’s a comment I shared in another thread that might give you an idea: https://lemmy.world/comment/13394779
If you want our actual list just let me know and I can message you this evening. But it’s 2 handwritten pages 😬
Great list to start and points me in the right direction. We have two toddler and a new baby who came 10 weeks early so he’s in the nicu. Trying to get things for them as well as us and our two dogs. Good to know, thanks for the info
