Hey, at least Palestine won’t be a stumbling block next election. 1 state solution it is I guess, sigh
Trump is going to have/help Israel just erase Gaza and the Palestinians as a people, there will be no need for any “solution”. And this is apparently what all these people sitting out wanted in the end. Hope they enjoy the view from their high horse.
Yeah, that’s what I meant. Its all just going to be Israel and settlers
Nah he may keep it around so the from the river to the sea crowd can screech at the dems
Israel will steam roll the rest of Gaza and West Bank.
Alright! So Palestine is free now, right guys?..right?
Palestine is freed… from existing.
The genocide will finally stop!
Because there won’t be anyone left to kill
Of course they are! The non-voters and 3rd party voters did exactly what they said they’d do to free Palestine and now It’s all flowers and hugs as far as the eye can see over there!
Don’t mind the big sign in right in the center of their city that reads “Future Site of Giant Crater”, that’s nothing at all to worry about. Just focus on all the hugs!
Everyone in north Gaza will be dead by new years because of the intentional famine. And it will happen completely under Biden without Trump even getting to the White House.
The community is literally dying and all you can do is throw insults.
Ima be blunt. They would treat me exactly the same as republicans will, because im a trans woman so fuck me. Who it is does actually matter
Let’s meet back here on Jan 1st so I can say you’re full of shit directly to you.
I’m done arguing with you on this.
The UN isn’t lying when they said north Gaza has had no food delivered for weeks and the IDF isn’t lying when they said anyone left alive there who didn’t evacuate is an enemy combatant. The “Generals strategy” is playing out in Israel.
We’re all pissed that Trump won but don’t take it out on others who are also suffering alongside you.
I said I’m done arguing with you on this. You keep coming back for more. Walk away.
If Kamala lost the election because she wasn’t in support of Palestine then why didn’t she just support Palestine?
That’s not why she lost the election. The whole “Democrats support genocide!” meme was a propaganda technique to suppress Dem voter turnout. It had an effect, but on its own, I don’t think it was decisive. Sadly, most Americans, including Democrats and progressive, don’t give a shit about the Palestinians, except to cry crocodile tears. And the vast majority of the Republicans are fine with further expanding the genocide.
I suppose that is one way to misread what was typed. GJ
What are you saying then?
I already said it…it isn’t my job to make you read it better. If you actually want to know then you will try again and do better, if not then you can shout into the void until you feel better.
sick bro
Maybe make your one issue election about your country and not others? And I mean if you really cared about Palestine, you wouldn’t have stood off to the side and let Trump through, cause now you’ll get to watch the complete annihilation of Palestine, and even more of your tax dollars will go towards the genocide
With Kamala you had someone you could work with and who responds to bad press and would have buckled to your demands. Now you got Trump who gives zero fucks about what you don’t like
I’m not American and you didn’t answer my question.
If pro-palestinian one issue voters lost Kamala the election, why didn’t she appease them? Why are the voters to blame and not the democrats?
They answered your question perfectly.
It wasn’t the one issue, it was just the one that stuck with people who needed an excuse to not show up and vote for a woman.
You’re doing the exact same thing. You are refusing to acknowledge any criticism to the Harris campaign and blaming voters for the loss.
Misogyny absolutely played a role in this election and I do not want to downplay the racism and misogyny that Harris had to work against, but she ran a fucking awful campaign. She sucked up to fascists, ignored her base, and belittled the concerns pro-palestine protestors.
I’m speaking now.
Saying she ran an awful campaign is a judgement, one neither of us qualified to make legitimately (correct me if I’m wrong and you have some relevant professional experience)
The voters spoke and said they did not see enough of a difference between Harris and Trump to vote for Harris, and the ones that saw a difference voted for Trump.
Harris was out there making her platform and politics known, performing at debates.
Saying she ran an awful campaign is a judgement
I mean yeah but if this is your mindset then why are you on the internet talking about politics? Am I supposed to meekly say, “Democrats tried their best but it just didn’t work out!”.
No I’m not an expert but I followed this election cycle quite closely and I listened to experienced commentators and weighed their opinions on the matter.
The average american is worse off than they have been in a long time and Harris did not adequately address that. She campaigned on securing the border and continuing to support a genocide. She didn’t promise to take on corporate greed, or to tax billionaires, or to make sure all americans have access to healthcare. She didn’t give voters anything to get excited about. Her campaign was laser focused on telling voters that Trump is bad and that they should vote for her.
Many people, myself included, think that was a terrible strategy. The election results seem evidence enough for me but apparently some people think election results are not a good indicator of whether or not someone ran a good campaign.
I think i can copy paste this comment somewhere on a 2016 thread about Hilary and it would make just as much sense.
How about you tell this to someone who isn’t white, or better yet, someone who has family affected by the situation in gaza.
That’s an excellent question. The Harris campaign decided to not let Palestinians speak at the DNC. The Uncommitted movement offered to endorse her but the staff refused to let any Palestinian Americans do so on camera, even with pre-vetted remarks. It’s mystifying and one of the major blunders of the Harris campaign.
Harris seemed hyper focused on avoiding any criticism by Trump or Republicans. Hence she wouldn’t meet with Palestinian-Americans and avoided all the Muslim voters in Pennsylvania who were trying to meet with her. She was working so hard to get Republicans to flip and support her, which is why she did a rally with Liz Cheney and talked about how much she’d help Israel, and decided the Arab-American and Muslim-American votes were expendable if it meant getting more Republicans.
Hillary tried the same strategy in 2016, and it failed badly. Throwing one of the most loyal democratic voting blocs under the bus to get Republicans to flip for them, has been a strategy of 2 of the last 3 elections (Biden promised to undo the Muslim ban but nothing else, so I don’t know if that counts) and they keep repeating this playbook with the same results. I fear that in 2028 they won’t even try to get our votes again and will try to cozy up to Trump’s Muslim ban in hopes that Republicans flip to democrat once again.
Harris seemed hyper focused on avoiding any criticism by Trump or Republicans.
Compare that with, “They are unanimous in their hate for me — and I welcome their hatred.” That line came from some four-term-President loser.
I’m not American
then please shut the fuck up.
Answers to your comment are hilarious, these people deserve Trump but they don’t even realise this. Rats complaining about cockroaches.
Im an Israeli anarchist, but I’m still going to try my best at explaining.
American liberals won’t ever appease leftists, or minorities, because they expect subservience and loyalty for nothing in return. In so doing they play right into the fascists’ hands, trying to serve right wingers who already made their minds up in voting for a fascist.
It is very likely not only more leftists but more Muslim and arabic people would’ve voted for dems if it weren’t for dems insisting that kamala should keep supporting israel and that criticism is amount to betrayal.
As much as i despise electoralism, being an anarchist and all, it’s very simple to understand how and why this happened even from an electoralist perspective, makes one think maybe american liberals just don’t want to understand.
And before anyone says I’m talking out of my ass about american libs, as if i don’t know them because I don’t live in the states: Know that they walk and talk just the same as israeli liberals, and these empty platitudes and threats of being a traitor are the same as i get at home.
If I’m understanding your comment correctly we’re more or less on the same page.
My question is not a literal question but me pointing out the paradox sucking up to Israel to “win the election” and then blaming pro-palestine voters after they lose the election.
Oh, yeah that makes more sense, we’re definitely on the same page.
Because they shouldn’t have beeded to be convinced. Trump was obviously the worse choice for Palestine. The most basic realpolitik shouldve told them to hold their nose. They are to blame for putting their ideals over the lives of everyone around them and even those they want to save.
Ok you go say that to their faces. Tell them they should suck it up and vote for an administration that is funding a genocide against their people. Tell them they’re being “idealistic” when they speak out against a genocide.
Liberals are amazing.
Put one in front of me, I gladly will
Because in the coalition of Democratic voters and donors, there are also those who unconditionally support Israel, and they outnumber those who support the Palestinians.
Ah nice, you’re getting a head start on the “blame the voter” strategy for the next election. Good job!
Does anyone have a source for turnout compared to 2020?
That’s a big difference.
Yeah, all the people who sat this vote out put Trump in the Oval Office.
All I know is, and I know I’ll get destroyed for this kinda proving my point, but I’ve never seen so much division, insults, hate, and even racism, thrown around by leftists to other leftists, than I have in this election. The intolerance and in fighting is through the roof.
For a non-American this thread and other like this are hilarious: the people who spent the last year campaigning “Vote Not Trump” now blame everybody else but themselves for how their strategy of having a candidate who did nothing to appeal to voters and sold fear of the other instead, failed miserably.
So they post tons of such “it’s the fault of everybody else” memes as topics were they and other members of the tribe make posts with wild ass reasons for why it really is everybody else’s faults and responding to such posts from others by basically saying “yeah, you’re so right”, like one gigantic circle jerk, pretty much a continuation of what they were doing for a whole fucking year - a big fat circle jerk whilst not paying attention to anybody else - only now they’re doing it with sad faces.
Sure, it’s the 14 millions who stayed home that are to blame, not the massive incompetence of the DNC and the mindless tribalist muppets trading dumb Trump and Vance memes whilst thinking that their “leaders” deserved a win merelly for wearing the right pin on their jacket and not being Trump, without needing to actually have policies that appealed to their natural voters.
“Bloody natural Democrat voters, not going to polls and doing what they’re supposed to do!”
What a heady, heady mix of stupidity and sense of entitlement.
Reminds me of the whole saying: “Only two things are infinite - the Universe and Human Stupidity - and we’re not sure about the first”
Big thanks to all the Americans who voted in favor of another trump presidency. He couldn’t have won without them.
Like every year, only about 1/3 of eligible voters did. I will never again listen to a single fucking thing people who didn’t vote or those who threw it away on a 3rd-party candidate have to say.
There are people in fascist authoritarian countries (incoming in 3, 2, 1…) who would love to vote and have it matter. They would even choose to die for it…
You really should listen to them though. They are telling you exactly what they want.
Ignoring them and then being surprised and mad they didn’t show up wasn’t the play. And it will continue not being the play.
What are you actually talking about? See, this is the exact disconnect I’m referencing. “Listen to them”? How can I, when they have voluntarily made themselves voiceless. Say what you will about the maga freaks, at least they believe in something and do the bare minimum by voting.
I completely understand being disillusioned with the election process or even thinking bOtH SiDeS are the same, but… In an election for President, Senators, House and local Representatives, ballot measures, etc, if you’re eligible to vote and don’t, you’re part of the problem. Even if you’re okay with the status quo for yourself, children, friends, family, and vulnerable people, you’re still taking a large risk in such a close election as it’s a transitional time and no one knew what the exact results would be…
I know that’s quite a rant. But all I’m really saying is they have no right to complain after sitting on the sidelines when it mattered, and I simply won’t listen to a thing they say now…
Why would anyone vote for the Democratic Party ?
Like sure, you need to be racist and almost a Nazi to vote for the Republican Party but what did the Democrats bring to the table ?
Nothing, Kamala was campaigning on nothing because she told everyone she was going to be like Biden. By looking at polls you will we that people are feeling economically worse off right now that 4 years ago. Biden did this, the Democrats did this, if they wanted to win they would have run a different candidate (or actually done the primaries) that would become a symbol for change.
But instead they just decided, undemocratically, to run the VP, the one person other than Biden that is responsible for the policies of the last 4 years. And then Kamala H. even said to people at rallies that she was going to be like Biden !? Thats crazy, it really makes you wander if the Democratic Party even cares about winning or if they are just controlled opposition at this point. After what they did to Bernie Sanders twice, I think we all know has things really are.
Also let’s remember that Harris also decided that she would campaign in favor of Genocide ! How crazy is that, the party supposedly on the left was already completely supporting Israel and they said they were going to be supporting them.
But unlike the Republicans, K. Harris would also say some empty words about how bad killing Palestinians was. Then she would obviously reassure everyone that she still wanted to support Israel until the end, because she can’t risk people confusing her for an actual leftist.
After all they were trying to convince this inexistent moderate suburban white republican that actually wants to vote Dems. And for that they abandoned their whole base.
Trump is going to be worse ? Yes, for sure. Did Kamala Harris offer any alternative, anything at all to convince people to go out and vote ? Did she actually convince people she would be more than just slightly less evil ? No, she did not.
Also if you go back and listen to her plans for immigration and the border, there is literally no difference from how she talks and how a Republican talks.
That’s why she lost. She didn’t care about the Democratic voters, and for this reason they didn’t show up. It is up to the political party to convince people of their policy. Democracy dies when you can’t vote for what’s important to you, because at that point, why even vote ? The politicians don’t care about you anyway.
Blaming voters is wrong, it is the fault of the Democratic Party and it deserve to loose every election until the reallign with their voters. Until they propose to them popular policies and show interest in their support.
Trump didn’t get more votes than 2020.
And despite that he still got millions of votes. Millions of Americans want this. We’re a country of terrible people.
Hear, hear. Truly terrible people. It’s like half of my countrymen are the people from Always Sunny.
Hey now. We’re only half full of terrible people. Some of us did our best to do the right thing.
More than half the country if you count the people who voted for him and the people who didn’t vote.
Don’t forget the spoiler voters.
They didn’t spoil anything.
Even if every single 3rd party voter went to her, she still loses
Half full of terrible registered voter people.
I’m not sure that statement can be verified at this point in time.
It’s close though. Big shift (so far) is 10 million ish fewer for Harris
They haven’t finished counting the votes yet. Unless you are somehow comparing to the exact point in the count 4 years ago, this type of analysis is very premature. Except even that would be a bad idea because covid made things weird in 2020.
It’ll be a little while until we get a good handle on turnout. Until then don’t read too much into it.
It doesn’t matter. You are ignoring the rot at the core. Even if people turned out and kamala won - it Trump should have broken the Republican party. It should not have been a competition.
trump voters don’t make any* deflections on who they are. the cruelty IS what they vote for. it’s not gonna break the republican party, it’s what they’ve been asking for. Trump just tapped into it. can’t do anything about those fuckers and trying isnt worth it.
I want to look at the people who just sat this round out because it wasn’t exciting and wouldnt really harm them. going back to “this isnt who we are” as a culture and pleading with them is not gonna work.
“If liberals are so fucking smart why do they lose so goddamn always?”
- Will McAvoy “The Newsroom”
I don’t think it’s fair to blame voters when it’s the politician’s job during s campaign to convince people they’re worth voting for.
Adopting unpopular centrist policies and aligning more and more with centrist Biden’s policies as the campaign went on is just going to fill voters with apathy.
The Democrats, once again, didn’t give us a candidate to vote for, only one to vote against. And I think the American people are sick of that carrot-stick routine, the Dems need to actually adopt popular policies.
And the establishment Dems are going to fight that tooth and nail.
Why did you need to be convinced to vote against Trump?
We didn’t. Most people did. Candidates running for office are a popularity contest. Biden has low approval ratings, Harris said she’s Biden and wouldn’t change most polices.
Trump is much much worse, and I voted for Harris in California despite knowing it didn’t change how North Carolina or Iowa could have gone.
At some point “I’m not Trump” gets tired and going “I’m just like the guy in office who was so unpopular he dropped out, but I will give Republicans what they want on border policy and appoint them to my cabinet” reads more like Diet Trump than “I will give you policies that sway people away from fascism.”
Even a single life less harmed is worth it for that vote. People clearly arent that ethically committed if they needed to be convinced to vote against this
I voted for Harris. Roughly 60% of American voters who are eligible don’t vote.
Harris needed to convince those voters that she was either worth voting for, or Trump was worth voting against.
She failed to convince them of either, so they stayed home, along with 14 million Dem voters she failed to convince to vote blue like they did in 2020.
How was anyone not already convinced to vote against Trump again? Its not like he changed in four years
Ah yes the free Palestine crowd…lol wait until they see what Israel will do with no US restraint demands.
“He didn’t elaborate on what would be ‘nasty.’”
Bullies usually don’t elaborate. Being vague lets you fill in your own demons, which is more frightening.
Also plausible deniability when the thugs he’s whistling to go out and bash gays or blacks or Mexicans or whoever (athough in their minds he was giving them permission). “I never said go bash heads. No, I meant nasty as in peacefully, as in not sugarcoating the hard truth, which can be nasty.”
hey at least SNL has 4 more years of fresh ammo
Yeah, both parties went down from 2020 counts. We literally had something like 18m or 20m who didn’t show up combined.
Wild stuff. Oh well, we rode this roller-coaster once, we ride it again. Maybe this round we don’t lose 2% of our population?
Maybe this round we don’t lose 2% of our population?
Definitely not.
It will be much higher than that this time.
I’m not seeing turnout down by 20m. Where are you seeing this data? Note, we haven’t even finished counting all the votes.
Admittedly, I was expecting there to be overwhelmingly high turnout and there wasn’t that from what I’ve seen.
The dude won the popular vote. I’m sure a lot of the shady bullshit that happened all around the country to suppress voting inflated his lead a little bit but I don’t think it was substantial enough to explain this.
Nearly every news outlet has reported record voter turnout, but look at the vote counts from 2020 vs this year.
Wait until all the ballots are counted. Ballots still being counted aren’t in those totals but, obviously, they finished counting 2020. Shit, California is still like 60% counted at this point. And they’re at 10 million votes counted… that’s like 6.5 million more votes just estimating CA.
How about 60% down the road strictly due to climate change
Nah, those are rookie numbers. Gotta pump those numbers up. And they have a whole playbook ready for it this time, so things are gonna get interesting and tragic sooner than later.
Bonus points that if we make through, we can look forward to new exciting wars about water resources and inhospitable climate problems
Honestly, I’m praying for another pandemic. This world is so broken that it needs a reset.
Ænema
Ill see you down in Arizona bay
I’ll bet we never find out how many were denied the ability to vote because of registration purges, bomb threats, and other malicious voter suppression.
But the fact that states both voted for abortion access at the state level and then also voted in all Republicans who will pass a national ban shows the voting population is stupid enough that this was the likely outcome anyway.
Fuck this country.
I literally heard an interview with a woman who said she voted Republican because, on the one hand, abortion “isn’t that big of a deal” and ought to be left up to the states, but on the other, “doctors shouldn’t be allowed to abort babies after they’re born.”
So this person thinks that doctors are murdering babies… and that should be allowed on a state by state basis. Which… boy oh boy, I’m not sure what to even do with a mind that works that way.
I saw a comment earlier from a person who thinks abortion is chopping up a baby inside the womb and then sucking out the pieces.
I think the Republican voters are to stupid or just in denial that Congress would ever vote for an abortion ban, even though they’ve clearly signaled they would. My boss is very right wing and last night he said to me that he thought it was weird all the commercials he saw for Sherrod Brown here in Ohio mentioned protecting abortion when it’s legal here. When I said a nation ban would supercede our state constitution he just straight told me Congress would pass a national ban.
Fascist country
As a Michigander, a special fuck you to all the dipshits who voted independent
Like Dearborn? Where Arab Americans had been sounding alarm bells for months about how democrats were losing them? How they were upset about their brothers and sisters being blown the fuck up in Palestine and Lebanon? How leftists were vehemently warning for months that Kamala’s callous take on the middle east “Im speaking now 🤫”, could cost her the election?
Your comment is just thinly-veiled racism. Next time, just say you blame american fascism on american Muslims.
And now that you are reaping, you’re lashing out. In textbook liberal fashion, you’re scapegoating minorities as fascism starts to come knocking.
If you can honestly look at the complete ineptitude of the democrat establishment and Kamala’s race, and still blame minorities, then I feel like I know which side you’re going to take when shit really starts getting volatile here.
Your comment is just thinly-veiled racism. Next time, just say you blame american fascism on american Muslims.
You WISH it was just your fault
And now that you are reaping, you’re lashing out. In textbook liberal fashion, you’re scapegoating minorities as fascism starts to come knocking.
I AM a minority. One the Palestinians and Muslims in general dont actually like as it happens.
Removed by mod
None of that changes the reality that they did not vote for harm reduction and now more harm will come to the people they purport to protect (and likely themselves, now that evangelical christians are in power). This is textbook shooting off your nose to spite your face. There is no rule saying you need to pass a moral purity test to earn a vote, that’s a dumb construct that is hampering progress. You can vote for harm reduction, it’s ok. The conservatives keep winning and moving further right. The democrats could win and move further left if their cranky coalition would accept not getting everything they want for once.
Harm reduction is the only workable strategy in a democracy, even a flawed one like the US.
But no, it’s the same old shitty double standard: Democrats have to be perfect, but “that’s just Trump being Trump.” So in our distaste for catching the flu, we how have chosen to give ourselves a case of ass cancer.
Ah, hello, dipshit. Let’s explain math, the “uncommitted” stunt resulted in Trump winning MI. Trump has said that he would untether Israel. So now the Arab community is in an even wworse position and there will be more death in the middle east. It’s just that simple.
And fuck you straight to hell for suggesting I’m racist. You don’t know shit. I’m fucking half Syrian. Enjoy the bed of shit you helped make with your flawed logic. Harris would have pushed for peace - Bibi put Dems in an impossible position by deliberately scuttling peace talks until after the election.
Also, it wasn’t just the Arab community. There are plenty of morons who think they’re enlightened third party voters that also played into Trump’s hands.
