Wait … NATO was credible now?
The Baltic states certainly think so. Their entire defense posture relies on it
I don’t think NATO is in any danger. Trump has a very aggressive and bombastic style of negotiation. You saw this with NAFTA. Trump called it the worst agreement in the history of the world. But the USMCA is just NAFTA with a new acronym and now it’s apparently the BEST trade agreement in the history if the world. Its the same with Trump and NATO. The Europeans are the worst freeloaders in the history of the universe…until they up their defense spending by half a percentage point to appease the Donald, and then NATO will be the best alliance ever. Typical bombastic bullshit.
For people outside NATO it hasn’t been credible for a long time now.
For people inside NATO its surprising how much credibility they have considering how much just straight terrorism they’ve carried out over the years. Defensive alliance my arse
Thank fuck we didn’t give up our nukes in the UK.
What does that accomplish?
Autonomy.
Defense
Not a lot. The British weapons are reliant on US maintenance. Won’t be credible for long if the US doesn’t support them.
Isn’t this a bit like saying that because I drive a German car that’s maintained by the dealership, it’s not my car?
I’m sure it wouldn’t be tricky for the UK to move the Trident weapons program closer to home, or to align with allies in Europe (lol).
Putin won’t invade you
By the time Russia is knocking at the door of the UK, its already game over.
That said, I would not want to be Polish right now.
4 years? Try 6 months from now.
Now watch red maga walk back on that too, like all of blue/red maga promises.
The only good thing that could’ve possibly come out of this, and it won’t even happen.
Hopefully the EU takes over. It has a lot more economic strength then NATO. Also the UK is strong as well, but that can be managed. Turkey does its own things anyway and I would not trust them. Norway and Iceland are not that important. Canada is going to go with the US anyway. The advantage is easier common funding for projects, due to the EU having more direct access to money. There are also a lot of the basics in the works already.
Norway and Iceland are crucial to European defense - what are you talking about?
Yeah, what is your reasoning behind that statement about Norway and Iceland?
Love the implication that the shitty imperialist anglo organization was ever credible.
I mean if Europe wants to increase their military funding and move items in house I think that would be a wonderful idea. Because America is not a reliable partner in this at all in the past two decades.
The perfect excuse for the military industrial complex to move manufacturing overseas.
So I’m going to say that the military industrial complex is already there, it would simply be a rapid expansion.
The problem is that America has all the money.
If Europe gets into a war of course the US will help. But the same can’t really be said if the US gets into a war. The rest of NATO needs to be able to hold the fort if the US were to get suddenly …distracted in the Pacific
If Europe gets into a war, the US will side with Russia. Trump has been a Russian asset since the 80s, and it’s clear that he gave Putin classified documents relating to American spies and informants during his last presidency when they suddenly started dying a few days after he met with Putin. And even more classified documents relating to American espionage against Russia than the ones he requested before that meeting were found in Mar a la Go.
can you cite a source on the spies dying a few days after he met Putin? Not saying it’s not true, just curious.
I wrote that incorrectly, it wasn’t a few days after he met Putin, but a marked spike over the months after. He requested classified documents related to CIA operations like 3 days before the meeting with Putin. It’s also a series of events over a couple of years because it wasn’t until at least a year later that the FBI raided Mar a Lago and found more classified documents related to intelligence operations. There’s no real way to know for sure unless Trump or Putin admit it, but the correlation was and is suspect by even the intelligence operations of the government and is partially why the inquiry into Trump was called for in the first place.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.html
Are you fucking stupid? Which is the only country to ever invoke article 5? How many other countries listened to the call for this injust war?
Are you fucking stupid?
yes.
If Europe gets into a war of course the US will help.
How sure are you of that? Sure, if Russia marches towards the Atlantic Ocean, but if Russia decides to create a security buffer zone in Finland? Or the Baltic countries?
NATO has only survived for as long because of the commit of the US. Come January NATO is dead as well as a sovereign Ukraine.
Multiple EU countries want to, but they also want to give stuff to Ukraine and it’s difficult to do both.
NATO will kick us to the curb and rise to the challenge. We will need them one day and they will say no.
Good.
NATO is a trash organization. It’s basically Reich Lite.
It is the Fourth Reich
Oh wait, that's just post-WW2 West Germany
There were more Nazis in West Germany’s justice department after WWII than during Third Reich for example
Fully 77 percent of senior ministry officials in 1957 were former members of Adolf Hitler’s Nazi party, a higher proportion even than during the 1933-45 Third Reich, the study found.
Nazis in post-WW2 Germany’s government
From 1949 to 1973, 90 of the 170 leading lawyers and judges in the then-West German Justice Ministry had been members of the Nazi Party.
Of those 90 officials, 34 had been members of the Sturmabteilung (SA), Nazi Party paramilitaries who aided Hitler’s rise and took part in Kristallnacht, a night of violence that is believed to have left 91 Jewish people dead.
Alot of nazis basically kept doing what they already did like in the US’s operation bloodstone.
Let’s just kick America out if need be.
No need, Republicans will leave it at the behest of their Russian handlers.
Nato without USA is still bigger military than Russia.
But with a fraction of the nukes, which is the actual big stick part of NATO
In the game of nukes you don’t really need many.
You can destroy the world just so many times.
The rest is just for showing who has it bigger (the arsenal)
It took two nukes for Japan to wave the white flag. Do we really need 5,000+ nukes for anything? France has 290 and UK has 225. Thats enough to wipe one or multiple countries clean off of the map without any form of surrender.
Yes, antimissile systems will shoot down most of your missile volley, so you need to launch enough that they become overwhelmed and the few that make it through accomplish your goal.
We don’t know exactly how much “most” is, but its enough that the powers that be consider our current level of armament to be necessary.
Shooting down a nuclear icbm doesn’t really help as much as you think, if it catches it.
Not to mention the atmosphere lighting up wouldn’t be much better
You know they don’t go critical when you shoot them right?
Doesn’t that depend on how they’re set up? I’d imagine in the 50+ years since they’ve been invented they would have designed it so it could, specifically because modern anti missile defenses exist.
I mean, I know world governments can be dumb, but I would imagine they’re not that dumb as to bother maintaining a key super weapon just to not upgrade it / design it so that it won’t work if used.
Maybe but no not really the triggering process is extremely fast but kinda fragile because everything needs to be compressed just so.
They upgrade them, it’s public knowledge for the budget. Usually it’s faster smaller or different form factor plus renewal programs.
This is where I think there is a misunderstanding. You don’t just fire only nukes at a country. You fire a multi pronged attack with regular bombardment aswell.
Will the ones shit down rain down radioactive dust everywhere?
Yes, but to a way lesser degree.
The bombs become really nasty by creating a big chain reaction (boom) and then radiating the dust the explosion creates (aftermath) which then spreads everywhere.
Without a controlled explosion there will be significantly less radiating reactions and radioactive dust.
It’s like deep inhaling the smoke of a package of burning fire starters VS throwing said burning fire starter into a warehouse full of fireworks (and for the sake of this argument you cant leave the warehouse and have no equipment whatsoever)
Both will probably fuck you up a bit if you’re to close, but one is comparably insignificant.
But are we bringing nukes to a biological warfare… umm… party? Or hell, AI drones/nanobots?
A lot of that is because rest of NATO is under US umbrella. Not like nukes are high tech at this point. Most of Europe could get nukes real fast if they wanted, but everyone has been better served by it being to many Nuclear Powers up to this point
And I expect they will get nukes real fast. Ukraine is probably going to go for that, tbh. It’s kinda their only option at this point.
Yep, and thankfully the EU has seen the way the US is going and started to react appropriately.
We would eventually crush Russia in a real war, the problem is that without going to actual war, we get to use only a small part of that.
It isn’t credible now. It likely won’t exist at all in 4 years. Unless it cedes even more decision making authority to the US and becomes even more of a puppet.
The main point I was making is that Trump is almost certainly going to pull the US out of NATO altogether.
If not attempt to destroy it outright in an attempt to extort it.
Only if he gets attention or money for doing so. Those are his two gods, and he serves no others.
Well don’t forget Putin
He serves Putin because Putin gives him attention and money. It’s the same gods.
Putin also kinda obviously has some serious dirt on him
What dirt could he possibly have that the MAGA crowd gives two shits about?
Doesn’t all authority already lie with the USA? If we’re going to be real, I mean. I’m sure France thinks otherwise but let’s be real: NATO was always the “Uncle Sam will protect Europe from Russia”-treaty.
France knows this, that’s why it wasn’t in NATO for most its history. This only changed when one of our president needed war crime buddies
calling the shots in europe is part of the us strategy to perpetuate imperialism. nato wont go anywhere.
