Let’s compose a list of the all shortcomings so that we can address them and eventually hit 100k mau.
Not enough people around to discuss some more niche topics and hobbies.
Specific video game subs are what I miss the most. I used to be very active in r/stalker and r/teslore, r/trueSTL. There is nothing like that here that sees more than one post per month, and I’m not sure that I have the energy to commit to reviving it myself.
Same, same. I miss hobby electronics projects. And some of the communities about AI topics (and more detailed descussion than just the hype) really lost momentum.
Have you tried being more in to US Politics, Linux and Privacy? I’ve found several very vibrant communities for those here.
Yeah, I think the main issue with that is both people watching the All feed and then complaining they get to see all the posts about all topics. And also people asking their Linux questions on c/asklemmy and other general purpose communities. I’ve given up on the US politics, though. That’s something we currently all have to go through. Remedy might be a keyword filter or turning off internet and TV for the coming weeks.
I keep hearing this. And I get it. But I think as a community our interests are so niche that we also miss out on more mainstream content I would like to see. For example there’s some prime time network TV shows I watch, there’s comms for them with subscribers but they are not active.
Sure. This wasn’t meant to take away from anything else. I think at least theoretically, both can go along. It’s just that it’s more obvious with the niche things. But probably applies to all of the topics. And there is a demand to discuss all kinds of things and I think we have the potential to let the user decide what they’re interested in… Whether that’s popular/mainstream or not. It just takes people to talk to to be present… somehow.
Oh I am absolutely not saying you are wrong. I completely agree with you. I’m just saying while there is a lack of niche content there is also a lack of mainstream content. Which might sound contradictory, but I think both can be true at the same time.
For example there’s some prime time network TV shows I watch, there’s comms for them with subscribers but they are not active.
Feel free to open threads on [email protected], we are the most active TV shows community
It’s too fractured, posts in one community on one instance have separate comments and interaction to the same post in the same community on another instance, even if you use crossposts properly, and it clutters up your feed with multiple of the same post
This is a big one. Its probably doomed to imperfection and hold out Mods who don’t want to do it but I think some kind of Community Sync option would be huge.
One problem is that the API call that returns the feed doesn’t provide crosspost information (unless that’s changed in 0.19.4+ since i’m still developing against 0.19.3).
Crossposts in the feed have to be done client side, and you can only “roll up” ones that have the same URL (Tesseract can optionally roll up on identical titles if there’s no URL). However, that’s limited to just the ones that come through in the same fetch (unless you store all posts locally, which is something I’m considering in the future for offline support; most apps don’t).
The API call that populates the
/postpage does provide that crosspost data, and I’ve thought about making an option to combine the comments from each into one “megapost”. But there are a few problems with that:-
Officially, crossposts are only compared against the URL. The crossposts may have different titles, and one or both may have different text in the post bodies. Which do you display?
-
Culture clashes. Let’s say there’s an article posted called “Ford Releases Their New Monstrosity 5000”. It gets posted to
c/carsandc/fuckcarsby different people with different intentions.
The tone of the comments would be wildly different since the two communities are basically ideologically opposites. The replies to comments that came in from
c/fuckcarswould be responding to car enthusiasts fromc/carsand vice-versa. It would basically be a form of soft brigading.- It would be confusing for moderators to have multiple communities’ comments in the same post. What flies in one may violate a rule in another. Mods would only be able to take action against those in their community and not all.
I’ve wanted to do a feature like that for a while now, but every time I’ve tried to plan it out, it always seems like it would just make things worse. Even with indicators as to which community the comment came from, it’s still not ideal.
-
…is it weird that I actually like this part of it? It feels like it allows there to be different “flavors” of communities, and I can decide which flavor I like and which one I don’t.
I can see how it would get frustrating as a poster trying to figure out which community will get the most reach.
I don’t think it’s weird. Right now it probably isn’t great cause the pool of commenters is already small, and this dilutes it further, but I think in a world where we had plenty of people in all those communities it would be fine.
It does suck on the posting aide, though, and it also seems like there might be some use to a tool/feature that merges them somehow so you’re viewing it all together and respond to whoever you like in one place.
Reddit has the same issue. People will post an article in like 6, somewhat related subreddits and the feed would be quite repetitive.
What the hell I didn’t even know this existed. I just chose all posts and thought I was seeing the aggregate content from every instance. Also, Seeing the usernames (with different instances on it), it made me believe everyone’s interactions are saved and visible.
Posts within the same community are synced and you can see communities from different instances. The point is that news@instance1 and news@instance2 are different communities even though the names are similar.
The counter argument is that reddit has the same problem even without federation. /r/games, /r/gaming and /r/gamers are three different subreddits with very similar names and you have no way of knowing which one is the “main” gaming community unless you check each of them. With time, this will probably sort itself out with lemmy as well. It just takes time for one of the similar communities to become the de facto standard.
That usually happens when there’s a LW world community and then the alternative
- [email protected] vs [email protected]
- [email protected] vs [email protected]
- [email protected] vs [email protected]
Not sure why the posters on LW want to keep those active when the alternatives are more popular (e.g. [email protected] has 2.4k monthly active users, [email protected] has 1k), and LW centralization is causing federation issues with aussie.zone but that’s why they are both kept alive.
Too much focus on discussing the news and politics. And rarely is it an inspiring and new perspective. (Sometimes it is, though.)
this election is among the most important ones in the history of the country. if not the most. i am also looking forward to it just being fucking done with and having other things on the feed
I hope it turns out well for the people living in the country. We’re going to find out soon…
either way there will be violence. the question is how long the violence goes on
I don’t live there, so it’s kind of none of my business… I just always hope people don’t need to reach rock bottom to find out what’s important and how to proceed…
One thing I’ve learned is that voting is a lot like breathing.
Every time you do it, it’s the most important one of your life time.
I remember 2008. McCain vs Obama. I preferred Obama but honestly I wouldn’t have minded too much if McCain won, it was just Sarah Palin that was crazy.
Contrast that with Jan 6th, 2021. The loser of the election incited a riot and attack on the US capitol and democracy. This individual is running again.
I remember 2008.
And that’s the thing lol, all these fucking “nothing matters” teenagers do not. They only know a political climate where democracy is on the line.
Aside from being important for the US, it could easily impact relations with other countries.
2020 was the most important. Before that it was 2012. Then 2008. 2004 no more war!
So yea. This is the one. The one election to vote them all for something.
They say this every time lol. Its all bullshit.
I recall another thread a few weeks ago where someone suggested a no political discussion day, and everyone down-voted him and gave them angry responses. I recall one up-voted response saying “everything is political”.
This place has become an echo chamber for cranky old Linux users and is really uninviting to anyone else.
One of the things I miss about Reddit is the diversity of opinions and viewpoints on the platform. (I didn’t love the insane amount of reposts and bot traffic)
Hehe, btw, I’m one of the cranky Linux users slowly growing old…
I can tell you this isn’t really an echo chamber for people like me. I’d say the majority of people here are more “normal” people. My take on things often gets opposed. And it feels quite different to the old school places where Linux users and admins mingle. Often times the mob mentality (if there is underneath a post) is against me. A Linux forum feels very different. Especially the way they talk to each other. Here, people argue about opinions, while the “proper” nerds discuss technical facts and then something is objectively right or wrong (or solves something). Which I don’t see happening here that often. So I’d say it’s not it.
You’re right. Everything is kind of political. And arguing about politic sometimes is stupid and tiresome. And I also like diversity of perspectives and opinions. I wouldn’t need to talk to other people if I wasn’t interested to hear what they got to say…
(And the downvoting here is just silly. I also think it’s way more pronounced than on Reddit. I regularly see urban legends getting upvoted. While nuanced and longer perspectives get punished. And being human surely includes ignorance. It just doesn’t help anything once it gets part of the dynamics.)
Ha that was my shower thought post. I was not expecting to be hated on so much for a little idea.
I ultimately believe “everything is political” is true in the sense that everything interfaces with and influences the political system…but some people just use it to devalue any discussion that does not mention governorship, and any stories that are not propaganda.
At least I feel like I’m heard here. I posted comments so many times on Reddit and I rarely get any engagement. It feels like talking to yourself among an absurdly large and loud crowd.
I don’t see how you would Escape that especially this week
Politics is big on instances like ‘world’ (which, despite the name, seems very US-centric), but others I have an account on its less of a thing.
I have a mostly politics free feed that I’ve cultivated. Some always leaks in here and there, but if it’s an account that only posts that kind of content I just block them.
I definitely can see how relentless the politics posting is when I go to all, though.
As a non-US user myself, beside the lack of participation on Lemmy, I think the kind of replies and the instant escalation to this comment, in this very thread is a great example of why Lemmy can suck, hard.
The world, exactly like the Internet, does not end at the US borders.
And yep, even though many US citizens seem to be on the verge of slicing each other throats, it doesn’t mean the rest of the world should behave the same. Lemmy users should still be able to discuss freely even between people of varying opinions, or even of completely opposite opinions.
This is comedy gold 🤣. Things get political so fast on here
It’s funny, cuz i remember tons of responses like that when i used Reddit, too. But the onslaught was often worse cuz the larger user base had more power to bombard you with insults about how wrong you are, and give you 49 downvotes in 10 minutes just cuz you give some criticisms about a popular game you didn’t happen to enjoy and forgot to add reluctant praise to (“i recognize it’s a great game and well made, but its just not for me sad face.”)
I think this is just a bad part of the internet, in general. Similar things would even happen in AOL chatrooms if someone voiced a disliked opinion, I remember Diamond chat would get crazy
To be fair it kinda is a bad part of even real world communities. Try going to a biker bar, animecon or any other community and saying “Gosh darn I don’t like ____”. Best case people would look at you funny and leave, worst - you getting a knuckle sandwich
As a US user, with a bit of an organization compulsion, I do wish it was a little more structured.
The problem is not that community x is us-centric, but that it’s not called x.us
If a post is deleted for any reason it nukes everything, even the comments.
I can’t go back and view any comments that I was replying to or that I had saved, I can only see my own comment.
Not enough video game communities. I think that was a huge part of Reddits initial success. Even to this day I still search “Problem + /reddit” on google whenever I have issues in a game. Reddit often holds the core community off a video game. It’s often detrimental to a games success to have a Reddit community. Lemmy has communities for some games, but they are mostly inactive or have only 10-60 users. So don’t even have the latest patch notes posted.
There was this post 2 months ago on [email protected] to list all the video games communities: https://lemmy.world/post/19252451
Maybe you could start another one?
Maybe I wasn’t clear. I meant community’s for specific games, rather than gaming communities in general.
Did you open the thread?
Briefly, just skimmed through it. Should’ve paid more attention. Thanks.
No worries. Feel free to start a new thread there if you feel so, there might have been new communities in the meantime, and it’s always good to have a refresher once in a while
Its always about one of two things:
-
Instances going down forever. - kbin, even though its not lemmy, had a more appealing UI to me and my little brother. We’re on fedia now, but I only really use it to lurk when Lemmy.world won’t load randomly. I don’t think he even uses it at all anymore.
-
De-federation. - Beehaw caused several other people I know IRL to go back to reddit within a week. The timing was so perfect to wreck the API boycott that I’m almost convinced the Beehaw mods work for reddit. “Everything was broken” and now lemmy is dead and gone forever in their eyes, some even assuming the whole thing is literally gone now. They’re not willing to try again.
Nah, I have a different gripe:
When the reddit exodus happened, Lemmy was flooded with copycat communities for every popular subreddit. That’s fine with me. But what’s not fine is that very few of these communities use the same posting rules (if any at all) so they’re homogenized. Like what is the difference between nostupidquestions and asklemmy?
I have another one that’s not specific to Lemmy but absolutely applies: meme “communities” where it’s all reposted content. I used community in quotes because these communities/subreddits/Instagram accounts are just…meme archives. You’ll find the same shit in every single meme archive on the internet. It feels like it’s less about sharing and more about having the biggest bucket.
Like what is the difference between nostupidquestions and asklemmy?
On Reddit at least, NSQ was supposed to have a “well, that might seem a stupid question” gist to it. But I agree that nowadays on Lemmy they are the same.
Once we have more people we will need to enforce more rules
Reddit means pointless or stupid repetition (I forget which). I guess that whole homogenized thing is baked in if they were to migrate.
As much as I hate what reddit has become, it was a LOT less of a problem over there. And despite its reputation for having power tripping mods, the communities with strictest rules were almost always the best ones
A well-moderated community is a good community online. Self policing doesn’t work when it’s thousands of strangers
-
When you block someone, you can still see that they replied to you. I don’t want to know of their existence period, that’s why I’m blocking them and they shouldn’t have a chance to respond to me period. It’s not blocking if they can reply to me and I still see a notification that they did.
It’s my own observation, but a lot of people on Lemmy are smug assholes, including many mods.
Shockingly familiar to early days Reddit. There was a sweet spot before Reddit got as big as it is today. I can’t tell you when it was but it was there somewhere.
How did someone describe it? Like 14y/o 4chan users with the cynicism of a 45y/o?
Hey wait a minute I resemble this strawman
That feels shockingly accurate
I feel attacked
Yeah well that’s just, like, your opinion man.
The politics is very left wing and very unwelcoming to any other viewpoint.
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Tankies gonna tankie
if a “viewpoint” is based on lies coming from a convicted felon rapist traitor to the country, than anyone holding that viewpoint can actually go fuck themselves
edit: as a reminder, we’re talking about people who cause and advocate for this
What a perfect example of what the top comment meant. “You either 100% agree with us or you are a trumpist/fascist/nazi”, no in-between, no nuance, no moderation allowed.
“You either 100% agree with us or you are a trumpist/fascist/nazi”
if someone’s voting for trump, then yea. that’s exactly what they are.
if you sit down to dinner with 8 people and one of them is a nazi, then you’re eating with 8 nazis
maybe trump voters don’t come to lemmy because they know they’ll get shat on. they’re free to make an instance of their own like hexbear and lemmygrad.
but the thing about trump voters is that you can’t have a rational discussion with them, because they throw everything they don’t like to hear out the window as “fake news”
so yea. they can still go fuck themselves
Not everyone who is right wing is voting for trump.
Are you seeing Lemmy being intolerant of all right wing discussion, or just Maga bullshit like sol is railing against
No need to go right actually, even defending social democrate values may attract intolerant leftists on some instances.
I see both. Even moderate conservative view point tend to get straw manned as being MAGA. Heck I see left leaning people who just didn’t like that Biden was running get bashed for suggesting the Democrats run a different candidate. Now I see the same on anything less the pro Kamala.
If Harris anonymously posted a self criticism on here I wouldn’t be surprised if people called her MAGA. That’s not to say everyone here acts that way but a vocal percentage does.
Anytime you mention anything right wing you get a lot of downvotes and a lot of railing against MAGA. It is almost enough to make me vote for Trump just out of spite. There might be a “silent majority” that doesn’t do that, but the evidence that anyone can see: comments and votes are clearly intolerant of all right wing discussion.
Just look at all the different replies I’ve got - most of them instead of looking at Lemmy in the mirror proved the point by jumping onto railing against MAGA.
To me, voting for Trump “out of spite” doesn’t sound like something a person would do if they cared about others. I hope you won’t do that.
I think the problem is more that maga has taken over the right wing, and instead of distancing themselves from maga, a lot of conservatives end up defending it. Which should not be tolerated imo.
If someone is intolerant of maga, what is so hard about saying “I don’t like them either”
I absolutely 100% get what you mean.
But I’d implore you to wait a Moment and think about it. Voting for Trump isn’t only going to “own the Tankies”, It will also damage everyone else, including you. Don’t let others bully you into voting for someone that doesn’t help you. Be egoistic, vote for someone who actually cares about you.
That’s because all of right wing politics is hurting people for no good reason.
oh that’s right-- conservatives also push for privatizing and deregulating everything, small government (except when it comes to gay marriage and gay books in the library), mandatory jesus for everyone, no taxes for billionaires, all the taxes for peasants, blaming all the world’s problems on mexicans-- what am i leaving out? oh yea, this
Let me head over to lemmy.ml and create a list of all the things the left wing stands for too. There is no particular agreement on any side on all issues. Governments have often done a poor job of what they should do, and when they do something you don’t get any options. There are many regulations causing more harm than good. And so on - there is plenty of observation and logic behind the various right wing positions - you don’t have to agree with them, but please start thinking about things from other points of view and understanding instead of attacking someone who makes one point on every possible thing you disagree with assuming they both support that other thing as well, and also that they are evil.
a vote for R is objectively the wrong vote
But nobody talked about Trump, did they?
You assumed and started that.
My point is that there is a infinity of nuance between the far left and trumpist, but too many extreme leftists tend to consider anything right of them as far right, therefore forbidding discussion that doesn’t 100% go their preferred way. This is part of what makes a big chunk of Lemmy unwelcoming.
They do the same even if people suggest vote 3p…
Lemmy.world politics and news subs got deranged kamala zealots and dnc acolytes driving narratives. Peak elections got them spazzing extra hars too
Staunch Obama and Biden supporter here … I’ve read Obama and Kamala’s most recent books…
You do not need to be a Trumpie to get annoyed with the “everything is emshittified”, “fuck capitalism”, etc posts and comments.
and very unwelcoming to any other viewpoint.
Thank you for providing a great example of this
i mean, top comment started with a criticism that generalized the entirety of lemmy, so i understood it to be a thing that was totally fine in this thread
OP never stated what country they’re from, you’ve just gone on some rant about Trump without even thinking that they may not be from the US.
Classic US defaultism.
I put a little flag in my username and still get us defaultism. So i guess the Americans are just morons.
I don’t see a flag, just ‘muntedcrocodile’
What client u using ima make an issue on github. Depends on language if i can make a pull request.
Voyager on Android. I had no idea you could change display names
Not every method of viewing Lemmy shows things like that… all I see is “[email protected],” no flags or whatever. Thankfully, I have a good memory - so I’ll be able to remember that you’re an international twat.
Well stop using a shit client that doesnt support displaynames.
true, there are non-US right-wingers. but in this case the commenter mentioned he might just vote for trump “out of spite” LOL
so my “US defaultism” was correct
edit: as a reminder, we’re talking about people who cause and advocate for this
Are we though?
Where did we start talking about “this”?
You decided to make it about “this”.
https://www.propublica.org/article/nevaeh-crain-death-texas-abortion-ban-emtala?
please. republicans are 100% responsible for this. try to make it about anything other than right wing viewpoints
and in case it hasn’t been made clear, i’m not disagreeing with the point that right wingers aren’t welcome, i’m explaining why, and why they shouldn’t be welcome fucking anywhere. republican “values” are a fucking cancer
Agreed, basically if you are moderate, you have to block 2 or 3 major instances to escape from extremist content. That’s very unwelcoming for new users.
Extremist…lol. Please continue to feel unwelcome.
If you don’t see grad as extreme you are lost in the sauce
They’re extremist and openly advocate murder. Hexbear users threatened to kill me.
Some Hexbear users wished to some French instances users to get more Charlie Hebdo events.
I’m pretty sure Lemmy has a right wing bloc of instances.
Maybe but they are not in my feeds.
I finally found an anti-establishment libertarian instance!
https://sh.itjust.works/ looks like they have conservative posters
Hmmm interesting, I should search for them.
I could see libertarians starting up their own instances.
Ive had a look af them and most are filled with posts that have 80% dislikes on them.
The default web interface is very poorly designed and looks uninviting. Sure, there are great alternative interfaces but people will be turned off before they could check them out. Also, it’s usually the first thing you see when someone’s sharing a link.
There not being an official app is also something that will confuse non-tech users.
The default web interface is very poorly designed and looks uninviting.
A redesign is on the way. It will use Leptos with DaisyUI.
There not being an official app is also something that will confuse non-tech users.
Jerboa is official.
Is Jerboa official? I used it at the start but it seemed to just stop getting developed. Myself and plenty of others have since moved on to other 3rd party apps. I’m using Voyager now.
https://github.com/LemmyNet/jerboa?tab=readme-ov-file#support--donate
“Jerboa is made by Lemmy’s developers”
on the way in a, just set off in a row boat from half way around the world, kind of way
The default web interface is very poorly designed and looks uninviting.
Disagree. I find it rather clean and functional, even on mobile. Maybe because I liked old reddit. Maybe younger people are used to Instagram-like feeds so they don’t like the compact forum style.
I thought Jerboa was the official app.
Indeed an official app would ease the user on-boarding.
I had to read through some articles first to get the concept of the fediverse first and the look out for my home instance. That’s way too techy
We need a guide to send perspective users to signup through Lemm.ee and voyager to onboard them.
Original content could entice them to more willingly join Lemmy.
Wait what? I love the look currently
Wait what? I love the look currently
When you block someone, all the subsequent comments made to that person’s comment are also unable to be viewed.
Many instances have domain names that look invalid and/or like scam sites to non-techies. Dot world? Dot social? Dot [obscure country TLD]? There’s also no guarantees that the domain will indicate that it’s a Lemmy site. Both of these become problematic with sharing, as the default (? been a while since I’ve used the web interface) share function links to the poster’s instance and not the community instance. A year and a half ago, the shared links section in my messenger was mostly a Reddit flood. Today, it looks like someone spilled alphabet soup.
Just today I was about to share a link and the URL was like “shit just works” and I was like damn, fuck that, I can’t share this shit. Not even joking
Okay but like why not? I actually don’t get everyone’s issue with shitjustworks. It used to be my main instance
Because my parents don’t like cursing lol
You can use the link icon to get the link from your own instance
What is this sorcery
☺️
When they post asking for help with Windows and get an entire thread of answers from obnoxious elitist wankers who couldn’t even decide on a distro between them
Gee maybe they should try using Windows tech support then
The fact that many on the internet haven’t gotten past the largest hurdle, creating a Lemmy account.
We’re currently at 462k created accounts.
Isn’t it always that >95% of users are lurkers? I don’t bother logging in most of the time, I just go to lemmy.world or something and sort by all
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I said this a while ago on another thread, but if I was a Dev on the project I would be working to create a website that automatically signs you up for an instance. The high level concept is instances would opt into this pool, the user would simply put in their username like any regular website, and then the system would create them an account on whichever instance was best for them (maybe based on ping/trying to spread population around).
This would majorly reduce the barrier to entry in my opinion, because a lot of people just want to browse, and don’t care about the federation aspect at all.
Which instances would you put into this pool besides lemm.ee and lemmy.zip?
- lemmy.world is too large
- sh.itjust.works is a non neutral name (most people probably won’t mind, but some others might be deterred)
- beehaw.org is behind and deferated
- lemmy.dbzer0.com andn discuss.tchncs.de have a name that can be hard to remember
- programming.dev is topic-oriented
- lemmy.ca, feddit.nl, feddit.org and sopuli.xyz are country/language-oriented
- lemmy.blahaj.zone is queer-oriented, not sure they want people who don’t support queer people to join
- other instances are probably not busy enough to have all the communities subscribed
https://fedidb.org/software/lemmy/ filtered by MAU
I guess another problem is, larger instances are more likely to be reliably up, if you randomly signed people up to a smaller instance running in someone’s bedroom thant they switch off at night then that user’s experience is going to be terrible, but if you combat this by only having large instances in that pool then the large instances get larger and smaller instances will essentially freeze at their current size because the main way of signing up would become this portal that assigns you to instances rather than specifically joining an instance. It might encourage the fediverse to become considerably less federated and a lot more centralised.
There is going to be an equilibrium between the number of users and the number of instances. At the moment, with 22 instances with more than 300 monthly active users, we are doing okay.
I’m definitely not the one to ask.
This one is my biggest challenge too… I wish there was, like, a “trial” instance that folks were automatically signed up for and then after 30 days they had to switch and find another instance.
Once you’re in the door it’s lovely, but that first barrier to entry scares people off.
