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Me looking for Kamala Harris’s “radical Marxist policies”
Love it! 😅😅
The five dollar milkshake.
You don’t put bourbon in it or nothin’?
Wtf
no one seems to like my memes
It’s because they’re strange. The message they’re communicating is inscrutable.
it’s trying to sell Kamala to anarchists
But why? That’s a very hard sell and a very inefficient use of your time. At best you could convince some anarchists of the harm reduction argument, but you could never convince anarchists to be enthusiastic about voting for Kamala, which is what those very absurd memes seem to be trying to do.
it makes me feel better about voting for her. also I think it is funny
I’ve got a set of microscopes I could lend you.
You’re going to need an overactive imagination too. Possibly a collection of cognitive impairments.
Surelly lots and lots of psychadelic drugs would achieve a similar effect!?
More cognitive impairments equals more human, right?
Removed by mod
Trump has pretty specifically called Kamala a Marxist because her dad is a Marxist economist, and Marxism must be genetic I guess
Ok but that’s just one person. What about every other person that he’s called a commie?
Generally, “Commie” means Communist, ie a Marxist, not an Anarchist. The US rarely scare-mongers Anarchism, because there hasn’t been a large Anarchist movement that served as a genuine threat at the world stage to the US.
Fascists don’t know or care about nuance, meaning, reality, etc.
The biggest danger to US democracy is not Donald Trump or the Project 2025 christofascists, it’s the crushing ignorance of the US population. The gutting of the public education system means that many if not most Americans don’t understand that, “fascist” isn’t just a name like, “poopie head” that you call someone. It has a definition and clearly defined policies/behaviours that closely align with Trump/Vance/Johnston and their enablers. Communist and Marxist are very clearly defined things. Harris/Walz are pro business which means they are definitely NOT communists or Marxists.
If the US population were better educated and more knowledgable they would dump these Retrumplican clowns and rebuild the Republican party from scratch.
It intentional semantic drift and has been happening for a very long time. They erode harsh terms with hyperbole and make normal positions seem extreme by stereotype and strawman. That’s why I prefer specifying that I’m Mutualist rather than explain how the terms socialist/capitalist have drifted out of dichotomy or how the term anarchist and libertarian have become parodies of themselves.
Modern Libertariansm is ridiculous. Libertarianism is far better aligned with socialism (where the people do the work and the benefit stays with the people) than it is with either communism (where the people do all the work and the benefit goes to the government/plutocrats) or capitalism (where the people do all the work and the benefit goes to the wealthy/oligarchs.) Modern Libertarians are extremist right wing capitalist stooges.
Your definition of communism further proves the earlier point about semantic drift. All of these terms are problematic because of their histories in the past 200 years.
That is not a definition of communism. It is a reduction based on the definition. It is also perfectly representative of every modern communist regime.
It’s a reduction based on the history of regimes that call themselves communist… You don’t see a problem here? Maybe I’m just being pedantic but Marxian communism doesn’t have anything in common with any form of government in history. It’s more of an idealized state (state meaning condition, not polity). Nobody, apart from so-called primitive communist societies, can claim to be communist.
… I’m just being pedantic …
And trying to derail the conversation by distracting from my point wich was that modern libertarians are extremist right wing stooges.
Democrats: “let’s pass some reasonable reforms to temper the ill effects of deregulated capitalism”
Republicans: “that’s socialism and you’re a Marxist!”
Youth: “we want reform so I guess we like socialism!”
Republicans: “the radical left is indoctrinating our kids!”
Democrats: “let’s pass some reasonable reforms to temper the ill effects of deregulated capitalism”
Which democrats? The fuck?
Name one “reasonable reform” of significance since the ADA.
ACA
Name one Marxist policy that has ever existed in the US.
8 hour work day. 5 day week. (still too long but an improvement). OSHA… The list is literally endless.
OSHA, as much as I love it is not even close to Socialism, its enabling act requries it to consider the effects of profit before any rule comes into place. The citiations are far too low to mean anything, and almost always the too low fines are negotiated down, or vacated intirely.
OSHA is a worker protection but it exests as part of capitalism
Wow, Republicans are Marxists 🤔
Depends on whether you consider social welfare programs an acceptable version of transitional socialism.
That’s an incoherent question.
I guess the closest actual answer would be the Black Panthers and their activities
Followed by :
Democrats: “Fine we’ll do whatever you want! Just don’t call us commies!”
I resemble that remark.
I’m more of a practical American socialist than a radical communist (since that’s unlikely to happen here) but it offends me because republicans are just so ignorant. The average Republican essentially has no idea what socialism, communism or fascism actually are, and conservatives have been using this as a scary label for my entire life.
In order not to be confounded with economic socialists, who the right accuses of wanting everything for free at the expense of others, I always inform people that I am a Nathan J. Robinson socialist.
I’m more of a practical American socialist than a radical communist (since that’s unlikely to happen here)
Why do you say this? What’s a “practical American Socialist?”
- practical: I don’t have any delusions that the US will implement leftism more extreme than EU style socialist policies any time soon
- American: I’m from the US
- socialist: I feel the government should be involved more in regulating industries, owning certain categories of services, moderating excess wealth, and ensuring the financial/economic well-being of citizens, as opposed to the conservative style which is basically ‘well, if you’re poor then fuck off’.
- practical: I don’t have any delusions that the US will implement leftism more extreme than EU style socialist policies any time soon
The EU doesn’t have socialist policies, you’re referring to social safety nets.
- socialist: I feel the government should be involved more in regulating industries, owning certain categories of services, moderating excess wealth, and ensuring the financial/economic well-being of citizens, as opposed to the conservative style which is basically ‘well, if you’re poor then fuck off’.
So you’re talking Social Democracy, like the Nordics, not Socialism.
Not precisely as I mentioned public ownership of some industries and services that are privately owned. Healthcare and drug production would be two good examples.
Those are found in the nordics, that’s still dependent on Capitalism as the basis unless you also want to entirely restructure government.
I’d love for the US economic system to somehow be wholly restructured, but incremental improvements are the best we can do currently.
Not really, we have no actual control over policy.
Look, people have been debating the definition of socialism for decades, and you guys are not going to figure out here today on Lemmy World.
its pretty settled actialy, its the worker ownership of the means of production
It’s not a debate so much as a propaganda war where every state is lying.
Defeatist (based on observation of fact)
Defeatist because I’m not pushing for full communism or are you referring to something else?
The thing about defeatism is that sometimes it’s just correct, the war is lost. Socialism as in the workers owning the means of production is a currently impossible concept for America. Social democracy would need a tidal wave of the YOOTHS building a New Deal-type political coalition as the Boomers die off but it’s something you can work towards.
The capitalist and nationalist propaganda against communism has been at a completely insane level in the US for 70 years now… yeah, it’s hard to go against, but I do have faith it’s dying out. Conservatives can’t even really remember the USSR currently and younger people, mainly liberal (IN A US POLITICS SENSE) can clearly see the problems with the current system and have desire and will to make it change. Still lots of completely deluded younger folks too, though, and the levels of fascist propaganda we’re dealing with now are massive.
Both parties agree on the standard indoctrination. They only disagree about the purpose/topics of the brainwashing. Neither party wants it to include an honest discussion about socialism, fascism, etc. It’s a self-perpetuating problem where the indoctrinators don’t even understand what this stuff means.
That sounds like a double win for the Republicans
I promise you, the Republican party doesn’t care who they offend as long as it’s an out-group.
Catching strays to piss off the communists. I love it.
God I wish Harris was a radical Marxist
Genuinely, watching Harris be referred to as a radical communist hurts me
Radical Marxist communist fascist or something wasn’t it. Lol
Radical:❔ maybe, if she can skateboard
Marxist: ❌ lol
Communist: ❌
Fascist: ✅ could be worse though
Knowingly voting for a fascist. That’s interesting. You’re different.
I’m not sure how many of the youngins remember that use of the word ‘radical’.
Only those who are totally tubular.
And Daniel
I kind of hate dad jokes, but you got me there.
🤘
Ah yes, those well known non-radical fascists
You 🤝 Trump
Things I don’t like are fascism
in political scholarship, radical has a specific meaning, and fascism is not radical. it is reactionary
I was just impressed trump graduated from communist to Marxist. Getting more specific and less accurate!
I swear the republicans are running pr for democrats. Harris went from “communist” to Marxist, and not even attached to Lenin!
Republicans don’t know the difference between the types of communists.
Marxist is less specific than communist
I laughed out loud at the debate where he said Harris’ father was a “marxist professor of economics”. That is not a thing.
What do you mean “that’s not a thing?” I don’t believe he’s ever explicitly called himself a Marxist but he has cited Marx as an influence on his works, as a professor of economics.
One of Harris’s most notable contributions to economics is his 1978 monograph Capital Accumulation and Income Distribution, which is a critique of orthodox economic theories that provides an alternative, synthesizing the work of David Ricardo, Kalecki, Marx, Roy Harrod, and others. Harris employs mathematical modeling to explore the relationship between the accumulation of capital and income inequality, economic growth, economic instability, and other phenomena, arguing that typical theories fail to adequately consider power, class, and historical context.
It seems basically true that he’s a Marxist professor of economics. It’s just not really relevant to Kamala since she’s an entirely different person.
Why not a Ricardian? I guess it doesn’t have that same zing.
If someone called him a Ricardian professor of economics and someone else was like, “Lol that’s not a thing” I’d say that the first person was more right than the second, with the same disclaimers I said in my comment.
Again, I think the whole issue is silly. Kamala is not her father. And I don’t see being a Marxist as being a bad thing. Considering how much the term gets slung around in US politics to people it doesn’t apply to at all, like Kamala Harris or Obama, I think it’s kind of silly to push back against it when it’s being used with someone who could credibly be called a Marxist. Especially when the much more clear and relevant line is that her father is irrelevant.
Also, any economist worth their salt has studied Marxism to some degree. Love him or hate him, Marx is one of the most influential economists in history!
As i always say its not the communists its the tankies. Communists want a different economic system but still agree on the equality of people and they can either want an autocratic or democratic system(from what i see simple communists usually want democracy). Then theres the tankies. They support full autocratic governments that are usually not even communitst like china and want a violent revolution. Often times they are even transphobic. Its the one group of people that annoys me more than nazis because they are basically nazis but on my side of the political compass. Also im socdem and have to explain to everyone that no that is not communism but tbf most people dont like communism because they teach its bad and not because they got to the conclusion with their own knowledge.
As i always say its not the communists its the tankies. Communists want a different economic system but still agree on the equality of people and they can either want an autocratic or democratic system(from what i see simple communists usually want democracy). Then theres the tankies. They support full autocratic governments that are usually not even communitst like china and want a violent revolution.
What do you mean by an “autocratic system?” All Communists support democratic systems, the idea of there being some especially evil Communists that don’t want democratic systems is unfounded. Additionally, all Communists want revolution, reformism is anti-Marxist to the core. The State and Revolution is around 25% Marx and Engels quotes and goes over why Marxists believe Revolution is the only path to Communism, and goes over how to make a far more democratic government.
Often times they are even transphobic.
Who? The far-right American Communist Party are not Communists and reject Marxism.
Ooh! Ooh! Who are the three most communist friendly Lemmy instances and do they want to be friends?
Hexbear and Lemmygrad are the two explicitly Communist instances, and Lemmy.ml has Marxist-Leninist admins (though apparently they claim .ml is because it’s cheap, not for Marxism-Leninism).
Yes everybody wants a democratic system until that democratic system picks the guy/gal that you don’t like. Then the mail-in ballots come out.
What do you mean by an “autocratic system?”
Many red fash support the states of North Korea, Russia, China, etc.
Ofc “real commies” would never support any state. But there aren’t many real commies out there. Most identify as anarchists, nihilists, etc. in order to avoid ideology/terminology that’s largely been recuperated by authoritarianism, capitalism, statism, etc.
Many red fash support the states of North Korea, Russia, China, etc.
“Red-fash” isn’t a thing, except perhaps for PatSocs and MAGA Communists, like the aforementioned American Communist Party. There are Marxists, and Marxists generally defend AES. There are no Marxists who support Russia except in its anti-NATO stance.
Additionally, this doesn’t answer my question. What specifically makes a government authouritarian?
Ofc “real commies” would never support any state.
Are Marx, Engels, and Lenin not “real commies?” I suggest reading The State and Revolution, it’s around 25% Marx and Engels quotes and goes over the Marxist Theory of the State. Specifically, the Marxist position is that the State can’t be abolished overnight, so we must smash the Capitalist state and replace it with a more democratic worker-state that will itself work out contradictions, transitioning from a policing of people to an administration of things, a state-as-not-a-state.
Most identify as anarchists, nihilists, etc. in order to avoid ideology/terminology that’s largely been recuperated by authoritarianism.
Ah, that’s why you didn’t answer the authoritarian question and reject the Marxist analysis of the State, you’re an Anarchist and are trying to claim full ownership of the word “Communism” and reject all of Marxism itself. I suggest reading Marxist theory, not just Goldman and Kropotkin.
Why do you think the ACP is right wing and reject Marxism? Literally they mention being Marxist-Leninist multiple times on the website you link. Nothing I’ve ever heard them espouse has been right wing, but I’d love if you could point me to some analysis that explains how you arrived at that conclusion.
The ACP is a group of PatSocs, also known as MAGA Communism. They advocate for Patriotism and Nationalism within the Imperial Core, as opposed to an emphasis on Internationalism, which means it is opportunist and revisionist at minimum and plays into the hands of Imperialists. Ie, PatSocs side with the Imperialist Capitalists of their own country and advocate for central planning and other “Marxist” ideas.
They are similar to the German Nazi Party but with more lip service to Marxism.
This is not to be confused with the Communist Party of the USA, which is Reformist and thus Revisionist.
Thanks for elaborating.
Similarly, when I learned the error of my ways and decide to join the American socialist party, I learned that they were just a bunch of trans-fascists using the name and popularity of Socialism. This is a new world folks, nothing is as it appears.
Sounds a lot like the USSR, were they not PatSocs?
Nope. The USSR obviously wasn’t in the Imperial core.
Scared of discussing now are we?
Blocked lol
You obviously have not once been operating in good faith, so I stopped engaging.
Communism != Democracy.
You are maybe thinking of socio democracy.
For the tankies, spot on though.
Communism is just a desire/plan for having democratic control over the economic sphere as well as the political sphere. The authoritarian stuff is just some people taking a more rapid/paternalistic approach to achieving it.
This thread is just getting better.
Communism is not authoritarian, you’re mixing up dictatorships calling themselves communists with communism.
Words are important.
on the contrary, communism is the final form of democracy.
capitalism != democracy because capital owners have a disproportionate amount of social, economic and political power, if not all. in a capitalist society the laws and police are there largely to protect and preserve capital and not you.
Well, I mean, we are capital in a sense…
I would suggest that the final form would be anarcho-syndicalism.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism
I also think our basic human natures make such cooperative systems unlikely on any large scale.
I’m using communism as a bit of a catch-all term. the specifics are not my concern so long as the people hold the power.
and i disagree with your statement there. human nature is whatever we do with it. there’s nothing natural about capitalism.
I didn’t say anything about capitalism being natural. I said the final stage, anarcho-syndicalism, is probably unachievable. And no, human nature is not whatever we do with it. You will not just make things like jealousy, violent tendencies, the need to be controlled, and people fearing those different from them magically disappear. There will be people like that regardless of how you wish to remake the world unless you find a way to genetically engineer it all out of us. Because all of those things go back to our primate roots.
i didn’t mean to imply you said capitalism is natural. i meant there’s nothing natural about it yet the entire world revolves around it and has been for quite a while. if you put a system in place human nature is irrelevant. murder is “natural”. we have laws against it. anarchism shouldn’t be just total chaos, it just removes unnecessary hierarchies.
things like jealousy and violence are usually linked to economic and social hardship, and in a fair economic and free social system it should either go away or be the result of psychological problems which should have remedies in an anarchist system as well.
Psychological problems only have humane remedies in such a system if the person with the problem agrees to the remedy. What if they don’t?
Education?
How do you educate away violent mental illness?
Communism and Democracy are not mutually exclusive, they are on two different axes.
You’re thinking of Communism and Capitalism, which are polar opposites.
Read The State and Revolution. Communists support the replacement of bourgeois “democracy” with far more democratic structures via a popular revolution. Asserting the will of the many against the will of the minority is democratic.
Revolution isn’t democracy.
Communism is based on revolution, to remove the bad apples, not on democracy & voting.
You all in this thread are like Good!=Bad ? Nooo there is good in bad!!
Democracy and Communism are two very (very) distinct systems. What did you do in school to confound or conflate the two of them?!
Revolution isn’t democracy.
Revolution is a mass popular movement to remove the minority from power to install the majority. A revolutionary movement without mass backing is not successful. Revolution is not done via election, yes, but that does not mean it is not democratic.
Communism is based on revolution, to remove the bad apples, not on democracy & voting.
Communism uses a revolution to create a more democratic system than the prior dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
You all in this thread are like Good!=Bad ? Nooo there is good in bad!!
No idea what this means.
Democracy and Communism are two very (very) distinct systems. What did you do in school to confound or conflate the two of them?
Communists advocate for mass popular movement and the installation of a democratic worker-state that will wither away over time into an administration of things, rather than a policing of people.
Read the book I linked.
Democratic and democracy isn’t the same thing.
I get what you are going at, but I just hate the muddying of the waters.
Thanks for the link but I know enough about political systems (theoretical and real, and those to oretend be) and don’t need some random indoctrination ;-)
Democratic and democracy isn’t the same thing.
Communists advocate asserting the will of the majority to make a more democratic system. Both sides are democratic, even if they aren’t reformist.
Thanks for the link but I know enough about political systems (theoretical and real, and those to oretend be) and don’t need some random indoctrination ;-)
How is it “indoctrination?” Why speak about Communism at all if you don’t know what Communists are talking about in the first place?
I do know what communism is, I do not need to read some random book you refer to to “understand”.
So I should read books that communists are talking about?
That’s indoctrination 101.
Go get a history book instead or trying to pump up your communism with cozy democracy.
Democracy is good, communism is an utopian dream that is very nice but never functions, like anarchism and a bunch of others. But I guess your book says that it can work, like for real this time.
You don’t need to answer, we’re on completely different wavelengths here.
Good luck with your communism though, I’m staying in democracy!
Don’t waste your time with permanently online commies
They are too self unaware to even know how dumb they sound and unfortunately infest this site like some kind of fruit flies. Harmless but annoying
I even sometimes collect their hot takes for public viewing elsewhere. It is never ending source of entertainment
However, revolution is a form of democracy. Direct action by the People.
Academic question: are they really on your side of the political compass if they want less democracy and less trans rights?
Socialism means shared control of the factors of production… if the control isn’t shared, then de jure landlords are just replaced by de facto “landlords”, like in Animal Farm.
Please stop talking about there being “a political compass” for crying out loud!
Yes but the political compass is a vast oversimplification of ones opionions. Think about it. How can nazism, a social ideology, be on the same axis as communism, an economical idiology. This is part of what im trying to point out in the original comment. Its interesting how you can be both a communist and a tankie but on the right side its basically just nazi nothing else. The left side is much more diverse as you bunch in basically everyone who isnt a nazi. The problem is the right often masquerades as something else and then slowly pulls people to nazism while on the left side we are always arguing with ourselves over smaller matters while we let the right eat up everything.
Personally I think ancaps are way different from Nazis, despite both being far right. Fascism is a merger of state and corporate power, which makes it at least partially an economic ideology.
Does anybody else find it interesting that the name Nazi referred to national socialists? Now apply that to this discussion.
Then theres the tankies… they are basically nazis
They like to be called tankies. It makes them feel powerful and vanguardy.
Just call them red fash. More accurate.
The real fascists are the ones who put fascists in jail instead of in charge of nato
oh gross. David rovics platformed Matthew heimbach. I can’t support him any more.
I hadn’t looked into it til now but that’s fair. A shame.
Pretending doesn’t make it true.
can’t we meme it into existence??
No, that’s just cope.
maybe. will you make some memes to help me cope tho?
No can do. If I was going to do that, then I would’ve never left behind the things my parents tried to get me to believe, and I’d be a religious conservative. Why cope by pretending Kamala’s a Marxist when I could cope by pretending I’m going to live forever in eternal happiness after I die?
I chose to walk the path of truth and it’s often harsh and unpleasant but it’s the path I’ve chosen.
“we’re are”
