Between the younger generation and COVID redefining the acceptability of coming to work sick, the workplace does look a lot better.
I’m a manager and it infuriates me when I hear someone bragging about not talking sick days and coming in when they aren’t feeling well. Even before the pandemic that seemed pretty stupid and I argued against it. How anyone still thinks it’s a good idea is beyond me. If you want or need to work, fine, do it from home. Don’t come in and make other people have to deal with being sick.
It’s especially stupid where I am because sick time is discretionary by manager, and there’s no cap. So it’s not like anyone is going to run out of it.
I feel like religion/conservatism plays a role in this mindset. There’s a lot of pride in self-sacrifice and at least appearing “strong” in the face of adversity even if it’s regarding your health. Not that I agree with it at all. I’m all for unlimited such days and self-care.
My vacation days are capped, but my sick days are not. I’ll take my sick days when I retire.
Older coworker here (Xennial). I’ve always used all of my sick days. One job had a week you could carry over to the next year. I held that week if I didn’t need it because next year I’d be making more money. Next job started with sick bank but stripped it away and lumped everything into one PTO bucket that they weren’t legally bound to offer carryover from. Oddly enough, they started having trouble with attendance in November and December as people just took days off whenever. Oh well.
A long time ago at a startup, we had a generous vacation time that had no carry over limit. Most of us didn’t take the full PTO allotment. The morons that the VC people wanted to change the policy to have carry over limits.
I’d send an email about this time every year to ask if they were going to limit carry over. Because I need to know when in October I have stop working for the year. Most of the founders had similar PTO accrued.
After about 3 years, they finally did it. I had to take 3 separate 4 week vacations in order to finish the year at my max carry over.
My father did similar his last year. He basically worked two days a week and took three days vacation for an entire year or so.
Older Millennial here and because I hang out at websites that Zoomers do, I’ve also started doing this. Y’all have had a major influence on the way I see life, the universe, and everything. I try to keep my sick, PTO, and UPT hours as close to 0 as I can. I call off several times a month and I’ve come into work late every single day for almost a year straight now.
If you’re going to give me the time, I’m going to use it. Only thing I save up is vacation hours for a yearly trip to wherever.
come into work late every single day
That part is questionable, but if you’re just working 10a - 6p, it’s fine. If you’re making another person cover for you until 9:02, it’s absolutely not fine.
8-5 with unpaid lunch is normal here. 830-45 is “late” even if you work til 530-45. Just my experience
That’s a management issue lol
Look at this wagie discovering solidarity all of a sudden.
In your boat and managed university students. Even millennials are dinosaurs and we all just need to get out of the way.
I don’t get paid sick time I can use my PTO. Would I rather be sick and miserable at work(in which my day already sucks)and be paid and using my rest and relaxation time for something I want or do I use one of my 10 PTO days and cancel my vacation I may have already booked since I only have 10 days off a year 2-3 days I have to use for federal holidays since I don’t get paid off since I am contracted with the bank but my company doesn’t pay me for the holiday.
I get this, but it’s horrible incentives. The company will lose money from other employees getting sick, and you’re sure as hell not as productive when sick even if you go to work. I don’t understand why the US work culture has developed in such a way that’s bad for everyone.
Because owners still got the slaver mentality.
I worked really hard at my first year at a big company and didn’t take any sick days. During my performance review, I scored 4/5 for attendance, even though I arrived early for every shift and did every overtime opportunity. When I asked my manager, she said it’s policy not to hand out 5’s because it sends the message that there’s no room for improvement.
No one could tell me how I could improve my attendance.
Whenever I’m asked to give feedback on somebody when dealing with support, I always give full marks to the staff member, even if they couldn’t help much.
It’s not their fault the company they work for is a load of shite.
Absolutely rage inducing. Care to name and shame the big company?
I will, Raytheon has this policy. Also, fuck Raytheon!
This is pretty typical and not related to one specific company.
Naw, it wasn’t a bad experience overall, once I fell into the habit of mixing sick days with vacation days.
They had some exploitable policies, doctors notes for 3+ sick days in a row but no questions asked about 1-2 days, vacation days with 2 weeks notice one day at a time with no right of refusal if there’s proper coverage.
This meant you could book Wednesday to Friday off two weeks in a row, and call in sick Monday/Tuesday two weeks in a row, giving you 10 days off for the cost of 4 sick/ 6 vacay. Other exploitable shenanigans were possible around Stat holidays.
The front line managers knew what the situation was, but HR never got wind unless something tripped the system,so if everyone works together on their sick days it was pretty good.
Okay well then you don’t have to shame it; just name it.
I’m 50. I’ve never had 10 days off in a row. I tried to plan two weeks last year and left but had to come back early.
Yea fuck that, take the PTO, don’t let anyone tell you to come back early.
Wow, I’m sorry. Please, consider moving away from the USA before you work yourself to death
Yo, heard. Reminds me of something familiar on my end as well. Nice when there’s a lil bit of wiggle room in a system like that. Gotta have a functional team though that can appreciate that work hard play hard work-life balance thing.
Relatively recently got a decentish gig after only working “good bad jobs.” While the corporate culture shock is still abrasive at times, nice having some actual benefits and shit – other than being able to call in “sick” to fuck off or hang with the boyes without care or consequence. Have a decent stack of mandatory personal/sick days that renew annually.
I can already tell I’m gonna be getting mighty ill around the holiday season, something definitely brewing.
Always max out at 4/5 effort, so there’s always room to grow.
what the fuck
The reason is it makes the managers look good. They aren’t judhes on their productivity scores directly, but on how their scores are from last year/quarter. So they intentionally sabotage employees to make themselves look better.
Is this something I’m too European to understand?
Yes. American work culture is bonkers. Most places have a limited number of sick days, if they have health PTO at all. In my experience, if they offer it it’s usually 2 weeks worth, as if people are capable of controlling how often and how long they’re sick for.
Before the Rona times, people would legit flex on how dedicated they were to their jobs that they didn’t see their families as much. That’s not a joke. The work culture in the states has been absolutely toxic for ages. I’m fucking stoked it’s changing.
There was a time that in some respects was in fact even more 🤡 than today’s america
I’m just not allowed to get sick. Simple!
I get 10 days a year on a sliding window. So if I call in sick in June, I won’t get that day back until June. It’s bullshit.
I saw a documentary where a German millionnaire was bragging about going to work with 43° flu to make you believe that he worked very hard to get rich.
Nepo babies love the performative shit.
Only reason to do that is to pass the bug to those who set the bad policy.
From my experience, it is everyone, regardless of age. COVID changed things.
I’ve started wearing a mask if I’m feeling sick, which was unthinkable before 2020.
I just stay home when I’m sick unless I have to go out. And then I wear a mask.
I just stay home as much as possible
For some people perhaps. I sadly still go to an office occasionally and I’m astonished that there are people clearly unwell coughing and sneezing all over the place. Last time I went I came back with Covid and was out for nearly a week.
My ex-coworker used to come in obviously sick. “Yeah I’ve got all the NyQuil symptoms.” He would then proceed to cough all over the shared workspace for 4 hours, inevitably coming to the conclusion that he needed to go home. Not coincidentally, this was also about the time that volume picked up and the real work started.
He also got mad at me once when I didn’t congratulate him for cutting back on smoking after he spent two+ weeks in the hospital for COPD.
Thankfully we no longer work together anymore. I quit and he died in his 50s.
The argument against sick days is fucking bonkers to me. You want people to come in and get the rest of the office sick?? One of the many many reasons I prefer working from home.
That’s the problem with Gen Z: they don’t want to SHARE
GEN Z IS KILLING WORKING YOURSELF TO DEATH
It’s not so much the argument it’s workplace policies that say 6 or more days a year means you can be fired with cause. A late clock-in counts as half of one of those.
At least that’s been standard at most places I’ve worked.
You need a new career, yikes
That’s rough. Not even my shittier jobs have had that policy
Brutal. There is a world beyond the American dystopia, you know.
And I’ve learned it doesn’t want us unless we wanna be nomads or we really have something amazing to offer.
(Maybe I’m setting the bar too high looking into Scandanavia lol)
I got a bad cold or something one time. I spent 2 weeks working from home then the boss told me to go to a doctor. Went and they found nothing so I had to come in. 1.5 weeks later I was over it but not before the rest of the office got pissed at me for getting them sick. I just told them I was forced to come in.
2020 taught people nothing.
It’s not even that.
In an office setting sick days literally help productivity, because metrics and workload should account for employee’s work hours.
If someone’s on leave for a day, theyre taken out of production numbers.
If they “tough it out” then production numbers say they should produce a normal days workload.
You end up looking worse encouraging a work culture where people don’t take days off.
If someone’s on leave for a day, theyre taken out of production numbers.
Ha! Good one
I don’t agree with measuring productivity that way. Coworker recently had covid, but they still worked from home. Granted, they put in maybe half the hours they would normally. But, boss was good with it as the alternative was zero work done at all. They still got some work done without burning any sick days.
Every company I have worked for has explicitly encouraged using sick days. Specifically so the person doesn’t bring whatever bug into the office and sharing it around, causing multiple people to get sick and take time off
Are you in the US?
Damn you people in the default country are insane.
I only know the world where everyone takes paid sick days. And usually it’s more like a week.
Maybe you should rename the community into “Work Reform USA”?
If we’re lucky enough to get vacation days, many of us are encouraged to only take 2 adjacent days to the weekend off. Month long vacations like Europe? Never. 4 days off in a row, normal.
So, should you fight for a work reform, or should you figure out why even your more left leaning party when in power does jack shit about it, and whether it’s really a democracy problem, or a national culture problem, or if maybe your solution is to move to a different democracy where the majority is aligned more with your core beliefs.
Or maybe I should daily start posting about working conditions in lithium mines in Africa and call for a work reform? Ah, that won’t get upvotes.
“Default Country” is my new favorite way to describe the US.
It definitely applies to reddit/lemmy. But also often to YouTube content etc.
Every single day it seems like there’s an article describing how thing is redefining the workplace.
We’re only about 15 years into the online revolution. I say 15 years cause it was about 2010-12 that “normies” (the general population) all got online and got Facebook and Twitter accounts. Historically, these kinds of revolutions take a generation or two to pan out so we’re only in the beginning of redefining life through the lens of the general population being constantly online.
All these “disruptions” to the workplace and to social engagement will be seen as the writing on the wall retroactively compared to whatever paradigm shift we’re going to see about it in the next 10-20 years.
How does it work in the US? Do you have a limited amount of sick days? It sounds like it in every article I read about it… Or is this dependent on the employer?
My employer gives unlimited sick time but if you use too much you might have to talk to hr about taking a leave of absence if its something long term. If I am not feeling good I “call in” (i.e. send an email :•| ). We also have PTO but being salaried I get paid the same for sick days anyways. If i need a mental health day I just call in and use PTO only for vacation days like they should be used
Also dependent on the state. Some states mandate minimum sick leave, others don’t. Then there’s the issue of paid vs unpaid: if you’re living paycheck to paycheck it doesn’t matter if you have all the unpaid sick leave in the world, you’re not going to use it because you literally can’t afford to.
You don’t get any federally?! Damn, I don’t want to complain too much as a Canadian but you guys are really bringing us down.
The part you specifically asked about is a big nope.
Currently in the United States, federal law doesn’t guarantee workers a single paid day off, and many aren’t even entitled to unpaid time off.
I’m generally not surprised by this kind of thing anymore but I still wonder: how??
The elites still got the slaver mind set and managerial culture. It is root in some UK degenrate “aristorcrat” but the crux of it is: 1) these bitches should be making daddy some mother fucking money 27/4; and 2) idle peasant will figure the “situation” and “riot” so got to keep this bitch “busy”
Political system supports them
27 hours 4 days a week? What a workload.
That’s actually discount… And we both know elites would never do that for a wagie
Many of us get none at all. I haven’t had a sick day for the past five years.
It’s not something to be proud of. It’s exploitation.
I’m really sorry. Please try and share this idea with others. Surely this is something the voting public could get behind if they knew how bad they really had it.
Edit: I understand the nature of your political structure makes this difficult.
At least half the voting public will vote for whoever their news station of choice tells them to vote for. And all of those news stations are owned by billionaires.
I see, thank you.
Totally employer dependent. Some places give you sick days and want you to use them if needed, some give you them and will absolutely throw you out if you use them, some don’t give you any, some people want you to use your PTO for sick time.
That definitely sounds like something the Best Country In The World ™ should have laws on.
Ben Franklin said, “If you sacrifice liberty for security, you deserve neither,” or something like that, and America heard, “Any kind of security for any reason is communism!”
Absolutely…
Horrible…
dependent by employer
All about the employer.
It varies greatly. There’s also the “lump sum payout” people consider at some jobs.
Some places don’t cap how much sick leave you can carry over year to year, and then when you leave they pay it at a reduced rate. So especially coming up on retirement, some people dont take it to increase that payout. Others do the opposite and use all they can at the end because then it’s full pay.
Like most things in America it’s overly complicated and everyone’s job handles it differently
My daddy doesn’t beat me. Feels good, man.
Still so crazy to me how there are limited “sick days” in the US. You shouldnt need to take limited days off when you are sick. If you are sick you are sick.
They’re limited in number otherwise lots of people would be off work more often. Can’t be having people with long term chronic conditions not working now! Wealth before health!
In developed countries everyone has access to nearly unlimited, socialised healthcare. And I bet we take less sick days.
